storm tracer

[JamesMK]

Price sounds correct to me - link here -> http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/st/

[gavinb]

well, i think i'll stick with pyro for now then :D

[Geespot]

well, i think i'll stick with pyro for now then :D

From what Iv'e seen and heard, ST is well worth the investment. (not got it myself but im just going by what everybody else has said about it)

[gavinb]

yeah, product is prob. well worth it, i just cant justify it :D

[Delinos]

ST is so good and fast that you have a money back guarantee on the first job you do with it.
And it's fun to play with too.

Anders

[gavinb]

lol...
i'll put it on my 2 get list, but a few other things above it ;)

[rgwarren]

As someone who has waited hours for pyrocluster to do it's "thing". I'd say ST is worth every penny.

I assume it still works with 9.1. Haven't tried that yet. Better open up a project and give it a go.

[BUZZFX]

What would you buy first: Storm Tracer or X-Frog? I realize X-Frog and Storm Tracer are not identical apps. but was wondering which one people thought was more useful!

Thanks :)

[AdamT]

A few questions before I consider Storm Tracer.

1. Has anyone built grass in Cinema 4D using Storm Tracer and successfully exported it to other programs like Vue?

2. Is Storm Tracer compatable with C4D 9.1?

3. What would you buy first: Storm Tracer or X-Frog?
Thanks :)
1. ST is a rendering system--there's nothing to export;
2. Yes;
3. Depends on your needs.

[gavinb]

I just render a scene with 3 pyroclsuter systems and soft shadows = 17mins

[Cybergooch]

What would you buy first: Storm Tracer or X-Frog?

If it was me, I'd go with Storm first. X-Frog is more narrow in it's focus, and is $400.00, plus another $100.00 for the 4.2 upgrade.

Storm Tracer could be used for a much wider variety of effects, from faking fur, to clouds and smoke, or grass, and it's super fast.

The only exception to that might be if the bulk of your work is architectural (for example) and you need to be able to make all your own trees and plants.

[LucentDreams]

or you ST's advanced sprite capabiities for those trees and plants so as to not add a real renderhit, but still get better looking trees then an ordinary plane with an alpha image on it.

[Katachi]

If it was me, I'd go with Storm first. X-Frog is more narrow in it's focus, and is $400.00, plus another $100.00 for the 4.2 upgrade.

Maybe having a look at DPIT might be interesting: www.dpit2.de

Katachi

[flyingP]

this thread inspired me to sit down and play with Storm again today, I have been meaning to have a bash at this for ages figured it was about time, I love dandelions :blush: .....took 17 seconds to render :thumbsup:

have to admit I still have no exact idea what every setting does, but I have learned a lot just through playing :D
http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/grassland2.jpg

[flingster]

i don't have it but its on my list.:shrug:

[Cybergooch]

Ha! Very cool flyingP...and ya gotta love those render times! :thumbsup:

[flyingP]

couldn't resist, just had to have a go at a few dandelions that had gone to seed, added another 10 seconds or so to the render though :D

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/grassland3.jpg

[JamesMK]

Haha :D Looking good! There's some white matte visible on some of the yellow bits, but other than that it's pretty dang perfect.

[flyingP]

Haha :D Looking good! There's some white matte visible on some of the yellow bits, but other than that it's pretty dang perfect.

and a lot of fun too to be honest :D

[JamesMK]

Guess I'll have to sit down and code my own L-system one of these days... :lightbulb

[Renderwise]

Sure, ST is a nice application. Even though its a sprite based posteffect application I would appreciate more and better settings for shadows. In some situations, ST shadows dosent mix with shadows from other objects. Mayby next update…

http://www.renderwise.com/ST Grass3.jpg

[flyingP]

OK took a bit of tweaking but
http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/S_shad_test.jpg

[Renderwise]

Yes, tweak is what you have to do…Hmmm, maybe I should plant some flowers instead…

http://www.renderwise.com/portfolio/Ashtray_small.jpg

[rodney71]

FlyingP, I'd love to see a preset like that over on the ST forum to deconstruct. looks great. I haven't come to grips with all it can do yet as there isn't proper documentation yet or very many tutorials. I enjoy playing, but come up with lots of unexpected results.

[flyingP]

FlyingP, I'd love to see a preset like that over on the ST forum to deconstruct. looks great. I haven't come to grips with all it can do yet as there isn't proper documentation yet or very many tutorials. I enjoy playing, but come up with lots of unexpected results.

let me play around with it a bit more and I may just do that, and see if I can't add a few more :D would be nice to get some back too :deal:

at the moment I am also still working a bit on guess work, but I feel am slowly starting to understand this, it really is a very clever plug-in

[flyingP]

me again :)

this has got my interest so I thought I'd take it a bit further, and have a go at a tree (which I hope is recognisable :) )

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/birches.jpg

Dammit I never expected to be able to do this with this plug when I bought it....this is very :cool:

(I am still working on the shadows btw :) )

[rendermania]

How many of those trees can you render with ST before blowing the C4D/Windows memory limit? Major problem with polytrees.

[rodney71]

you're on a roll, flyingP.

they've really got to get more of these kinds of presets over at the ST forum. how bout it Mdm Sadie?

[AdamT]

Cool, let's see a forest!

[rendermania]

A flythrough forrest along with rendertimes would be nice. I want to see how fast these things render and whether they break up when the camera gets closer.

[flyingP]

How many of those trees can you render with ST before blowing the C4D/Windows memory limit? Major problem with polytrees.

will have to try, with a clones count of 183229 they are kinda expensive though in comparison to the flowers which have 4397.

Only takes 8 seconds to render those 4 though :bounce:

[Per-Anders]

there are some tips within the quickstart and on the forums with regards using organic cloning.

1) Use Heading and Stretch on your Storms, and use vertical opacity falloff rather than round falloff. This will allow you to have far lower sprite counts per branch

2) Adjust those counts down as low as you can get away with. Take a look at the Palm Tree and simple flower examples in the library, these have quite a reduced "Steps" count (number of sprites per branch).

3) In conjunction with 1 don't use the "Uniform Scale" option in cloning unless you really need it. For branch style stuff it's best not to. Also don't use "Link Space to Branch Shape" when "Uniform Scale" is off.

4) Try out the "Stretch UV" mode, this allows you to stretch a texture along a branch.

5) Use Textures where possible. It's better to use a nice bitmap of a leaf than try and model it with branch shapes etc (and uses far less Storms).

6) Always keep an eye on the clone count.

7) Sometimes it's of advantage to actually duplicate your Storm, and switch off the visibility of lower layers in the duplicate. Just so you can for instance put on Leaves that aren't as big or are larger than the default size.

8) You should expect roughly 10 million Sprites in view per gigabyte of Ram over what the OS/Cinema needs, though I've heard from some people who've managed to somehow press out considerably more Sprites from the system. Using this knowledge you should be able to plan reasonably wisely. Sprites behind the camera or off screen don't count.

9)The "Clones Count" with organic cloning is a maximum number of clones, not necesarily the actual number, if you vary matter using the growth and growth variation, and branch count variation then this number can be considerably off. The actual number is always the same or lower than the Clone Count, but the Clone Count is there for your reference.

Hopefully once you get your head around this stuff it should help you make clean low count organics. The main things you will want to play with to get those numbers down is the "length" and "steps".

[flyingP]

ahhh cool stuff will give it all a go, thanks
:thumbsup:

[flyingP]

OK got the clone count down to 58839,
http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/birch3.jpg
took 30 seconds to render 50 trees
http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/birch4.jpg

[dfaris]

That is pretty cool stuff you have going on there.

Anychance of posting some of your settings and you general setup?

[AdamT]

It's looking pretty good! Maybe self-shadowing could be a little stronger....

[flyingP]

@ dfaris : I'll post the file tomorrow :thumbsup:

@ AdamT : yeah I am still working on the shadowing bit, is another beast in itself :argh:

[flyingP]

and now with bump added :)

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/birch5.jpg

[AdamT]

Woh, that looks 100% better!

[rendermania]

FlyingP, how about a render with more trees? 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 etc. I can render what you rendered in under 30 secs with polygon trees (Onyx Tree Professional).

What would interest me would be a solution that can do a full forrest. Talking maybe 20,000 - 30,000 trees of varying complexity. The more the merrier.

And Sadie, any chance of a demo version for ST?

[AdamT]

If you were doing that many trees you'd want to use placards instead of the l-system deal--or a combination.

[tapaul]

>1,000, 2,000, 5,000 etc
no problem ,even several millions , just not with the l-system.
However ,with placards (sprites) you can vegitate anything.
just get a bunch of vegitation images and have fun.

cheers
Paul Everett
www.tools4d.com

[flyingP]

>1,000, 2,000, 5,000 etc
no problem ,even several millions , just not with the l-system.
However ,with placards (sprites) you can vegitate anything.
just get a bunch of vegitation images and have fun.


what would be interesting would be some sort of set up that utilises both perhaps, l-system on those trees closer to the camera, placards for trees further away........I have yet to give it a go but I am assuming this should be possible over Xpresso :curious: :shrug:

oh and here's the file, I hope with preset included
Birches (http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/flyingP_birch1.zip)

[JamesMK]

Neato birchtrees there, pig

And now for something completely different: The larch!

[flyingP]

Neato birchtrees there, pig

And now for something completely different: The larch!

:D

got some funky pine trees growing here that I thought I'd like to emulate first.....and then perhaps seaweed :bounce: :D

[jddog]

Probably a little OT...

Actually I don't have ST, but looking your trees Flying I got 2 question:

Can you place these trees in precise coorinates and replace it one by one ?
With replace I mean can you have 1000 birch the choose some of them an decide that they will be a pine ? Without change the coordinates...

jdd

[flyingP]

not yet sure might get a bit complicated :shrug: , but I guess one way would be to grow a single storm tree from a single poly that you could place anywhere you wanted, either that or over polygon selections I am assuming it is possible, will have to play around with that a bit, changing or adding extra storms to geometry is very easy though

[jddog]

either that or over polygon selections I am assuming it is possible

mmm well over "GIS" terrain models I assume that it will be a littel complicated...

thanks for the info

jdd

[flyingP]

"GIS" terrain models

??

Please to excuse my ignorance :)

What are they ?

[Zendorf]

Thanks for the birch preset FlyingP! Those dandelions are really impressive, certainly the most realistic vegetation I have seen done in ST. Who needs geometry when sprites are that good :eek: Have you tried animating them with the wind or turbulence settings?

[flyingP]

Thanks for the birch preset FlyingP! Those dandelions are really impressive, certainly the most realistic vegetation I have seen done in ST. Who needs geometry when sprites are that good :eek: Have you tried animating them with the wind or turbulence settings?

only shortly, I need to play a bit more with that too to be honest, seems to work very well though.

EDIT: and as to the exact placement seems the idea with the single poly works best, selections don't work quite like I was expecting :hmm:

[jddog]

??

Please to excuse my ignorance :)

Hy Flying asking is not ignorance ! Sorry I know that is a little bit OT...

Digital terrain models that was build using geographic information systems (GIS). I use cinema for this purpose.

In this image (view it here (http://www.jddog.ch/galleria04doc/cornaredo/cornaredo3d2g.html) ) I use 3600 trees modelled in Cinema 4D. I have a total of 36 milions of polygons 500 MB of orthorectified representations pictures (25cm precision). Each trees are placed in the correct place (GIS with a precison of 5m on X,Y axis) and can be easely modified, changed or replaced (including anim). Just als you can understand is a queit loud document to work with. If ST can be used to generate multiple models, where I can place each trees in the correct position (includin quote) and freely change, modify or replace it I can save probably some ram and have a faster workflow... just I need to have volumetric model I can't use planes for this pourpose...

Actually I got some cash crisis so I didn't buy ST (but I will do it when I can; including to use for other purpose) but I'm interesting if is possible tu use for "high precision" purpose too...

jdd

[flyingP]

If ST can be used to generate multiple models, where I can place each trees in the correct position (includin quote) and freely change, modify or replace it

well if you can place polygon trees I guess you could place single poly's too instead of the poly trees, then grow separate storm trees from individual polys, or groups of polys (will have to try that ), and like I said changing the storm are very easy, you'd just need to load in the new preset, takes 1 second

[jddog]

takes 1 second

hehe... :D

thanks for the info Flying
jdd

[flyingP]

OK definitely works with poly groups, so you only really need to assign the storm on the groups parent null when working with a large group

[jddog]

ty :thumbsup:

[wuensch]

forgive me this doublepost,
but i need a quick confirmation and assume that some of you guys here have Shave & Strorm:

Anyone else conflict R 9.1-Shave-Stormtracer?
I found that with R 9.1 Stormtarcer (my version: 1.10.91, NET version,PC version (non-Intel)) crashes Shave immediately (the brand new Shave bridge 1.7 or the old one, does not matter) when applying Shave hair to a simple sphere, no other PlugIns installed.

Can anyone confirm that (or is there a new version for storm out?)

Greetings,
Oliver

[flyingP]

there is a new ST version Olli, it's at 1.11 now

[flyingP]

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/palms.jpg


:D ...........clone count of 21522 although it can get away with less

[AdamT]

Nice looking palms! And thanks for the birch file. Haven't checked it out yet but will soon.

[JackMcRip]

Have somebody try to render animate Hair with Stormtracer?
I try but the dynamics of ST can't give a feeling of animated gravitation.

[flyingP]

Have somebody try to render animate Hair with Stormtracer?
I try but the dynamics of ST can't give a feeling of animated gravitation.

you might get away with a bit of fur in places, but as to hair I'd still stick to Shave

[tapaul]

regarding exact placement of trees.


you can use a point coud with ST.
so if you have all the coordinates in a file , just import them to an empty poylgon object and use this point cloud to place your sprites exactly where you want them.

regards

Paul Everett
www.tools4d.com (http://www.tools4d.com)

[flyingP]

here's the Palms (http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/flyingP_Palm.zip) file BTW, maybe someone can improve on it and post it back....all in all it would be nice to see more presets on offer from everyone, then we could start getting some serious use out of this plug-in :thumbsup:

[JackMcRip]

Its possible :-)
StormTracer renders Hair:
http://www.multimedis.de/pub/temp/featuretest/stdemhair.mov

Of course there are better settings for Hair and for Hairengine, but it work.
Free Hairengine = TDEM
http://www.remotion.de.vu/
Look at DOWNLOADS to TDEM.

[flyingP]

couldn't quite pull this one off :sad: they were supposed to be roses was interesting having a try though :shrug:

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/roses_attempt.jpg

off to play with other things now :)

[JackMcRip]

Great result flyingP !!!
Could you make a tutorial for thouse famouse ST-Set's ?

[flyingP]

to be honest, the files I have posted should be enough, although I also would like to see a manual (BIG HINT) you can learn a lot from dissecting the other presets. Would be nice if the layers could be named too but hopefully that will come, anyway taking the birch level 0 is the trunk, level 1 are the first set of branches, level 4 I believe are the leaves.

It is easy enough to play with the settings to see what affects what, as it renders fast.

What I am still REALLY unclear on is the shader system, and sorry I'd prefer the even the quick start to be a bit more in depth for me there :hmm:

[bobtronic]

FlyingP, I have not Stormtracer but I have to say your plants look really good. How do you
create such things in Storm?

Bob

[flyingP]

It is an L-system based on 2d sprites as I understand it Bob, starting with one branch you then extend the others out, you can assign successive branches separate qualities, scale, length, steps etc . Hope I have understood it correctly at least :)

[bobtronic]

the L-system is part of Storm then? could I abuse the L-system to generate polygonal objects?

Bob

[ooo]

Thanks for the trees FlyingP. Very kind!
I was wondering if is there a way to scale the trees down. As far as I understand for now it is not possible to scale them, or can it be done?

odo

[flyingP]

Thanks for the trees FlyingP. Very kind!
I was wondering if is there a way to scale the trees down. As far as I understand for now it is not possible to scale them, or can it be done?

odo

you have to play around with a few of the parameters but yeah you can make them bigger and smaller, gets a bit fiddley though because changing the scale one level tends to effect the other levels.....may be possible to simplify things using expresso, will need to have a go :shrug:

[flyingP]

OK it still has me hooked :) ........another one

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/wheatfield.jpg

meant to add some poppies, just caught with other stuff, will get round to them though :)

[raycerx]

'chug chug chug chug'...
great studies FlyingP, now I have to seriously consider this StormTracer plug that you are having so much fun with.....

[ooo]

OK it still has me hooked :) ........another one

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/wheatfield.jpg

meant to add some poppies, just caught with other stuff, will get round to them though :)

Keep them coming FlyingP! And if possible, keep posting the files or settings. Thanks man :thumbsup:

[flyingP]

Keep them coming FlyingP! And if possible, keep posting the files or settings. Thanks man :thumbsup:

If I start getting a few back :), it's not that hard if you take the time to sit down and think about it ya lazy buggers :D

seriously though the more people that give it a go the faster that we can all perhaps build up a reasonably comprehensive library of presets :wise:

[ooo]

If I start getting a few back :), it's not that hard if you take the time to sit down and think about it ya lazy buggers :D

seriously though the more people that give it a go the faster that we can all perhaps build up a reasonably comprehensive library of presets :wise:

Shame on me man. You are absolutely right. Not much time for experiments at the moment. But if run into an interesting Storm, I promise to share it...

In the mean time this link (thanks to Jorge Arango :) )contains some nice presets! http://www.bubbles4d.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=e7d4454effae9f31e6a174f2a3f66bc6&topic=204.0

odo

[flyingP]

it's OK mate I was being facetious (would still be nice to see more people having a go though :) ), there are a few more I want to try first, one or two I'd like to repair then I'll look at posting them all in a single file later... end of the week maybe depending on what I have to do in the way of work this week.

[marshalartist]

Thanks Flying P for sharing your efforts, here is one I created when I first checked out the organic growth.

http://www.marshalstudios.com/temp/dande1.jpg
http://www.marshalstudios.com/temp/dande2.jpg
www.marshalstudios.com/temp/DandelionSm.c4d.zip (http://www.marshalstudios.com/temp/DandelionSm.c4d.zip)

Peter

[flyingP]

That is actually very nice.

I'll post mine with the rest, it uses the L-system for the lot, and renders a bit faster, although is a bit lower in detail atm (it is possible to bump that though....albeit at a cost)


and thanks for sharing too :thumbsup:

[flyingP]

been having some more fun Lightning test.mov (http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/L_test.mov) (right click to download the file)

ran in to some real fun lighting the storms but think I have figured it out now :)

BTW Per if you should see this I actually got it working with omni's in the end :thumbsup:

[flyingP]

the roses were bugging me so....
http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/roses3.jpg

[rodney71]

Wow, flyingP. you're on a roll. I think Mdm Sadie should get a couple guys like you together and release a useful set of presets...for a few bucks even. the Presets repository on the forum hasn't grown as I would have hoped and the stuff you're doing looks very useful and promising. It shocases what the plugin is capable of and should be encouraged. When I have time to examine the presets you've shared, i hope to learn some things and contribute back to this thread.

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