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View Full Version : Brazil R/S + Interior Scene: Help!


pongball
02-16-2005, 08:37 AM
Hi everyone,

Firstly, if you need to see my Max version, PC hardware, etc, read my sig :thumbsup: !
Secondly, please assume I am a semi-noob to Brazil and it's definitions! Thirdly, I will describe what I have done so far, and what my situation is. Fourthly (and last), I will pose a series of questions, if you can answer them, great!

I am using Max 6.0 with Brazil r/s (assume it's the latest version). I have an interior kitchen scene setup (I have exported a .3ds model from a 3rd party modelling program). I have textured a few things in the scene, that's all fine and correct. My problem now is something very fundamental, and I know there is no "one" solution to interior lighting. I've scanned millions of threads, seen a lot of tutorials, however there are certain questions they cannot answer.

Assume in my room I have 4 walls, 1 ground plane, one ceiling. Two of the walls have one window opening each. For lighting, here is my setup: I have one Brazil Area light facing inwards (towards the inside of the room) for each window with shadows on. I made the Brazil area lights "renderable" so now I can see two bright white windows letting some light in, and the light casts shadows. There is no other light in the room, and I have turned on a Brazil "skylight" from the render dialogue. Since the ceiling plane interferes with the skylight's ability to cast light on the inside of the room, i have excluded the ceiling plane from illumination + shadows. AT THIS POINT: I know something is fundamentally wrong with my setup. I want to achieve a realistic interior look of the "skylight", however that darned ceiling gets in my way, and the render comes up looking like garbage!


At this point, my questions:

1. Are there any adjustments I should make on the 2 Brazil Area lights (that are at each window) in order to make them seem more "natural" ie. like sunlight?

2. Are there any other lights at this point i should add in this room (ie. an area omni? help me out here!) to make it seem natural?

3. If i want a volumetric type solution with sun rays filtering from each of the windows, how do I go about doing this (is it with the Atmospheres/effects?).

4. I know my lighting setup is fundamentally wrong (ie. I want the look of a g/i room with sun rays or just light filtering in from the windows. But i know that what I have done is wrong!). Help me fix it :) .

Thanks everyone!

mistral
02-16-2005, 08:55 AM
I 3dman!

I've just the same problems!I posted a similar thread yesterday night but there were no replies!

however there's a tutorial in splutterfsh site...I don't remenber the link but I think that you can easly find it! www.splutterfish.com (http://www.splutterfish.com)

bye!

jmBoekestein
02-16-2005, 12:59 PM
Don't use a skylight to light interiors, it's for hdr rendering for vfx and outdoor scenes. Just give your area lights a colourtemperature similar to skylight, like 10000 K or even 11000 K. Secondly I'd enable photons for your area lights, about 5000 per light if there's little in regards of furnature. If there's a lot of details you should up the amount but rendertimes get higher when there are too many photons. You should probably exclude windows from the GI photons calculations somehow(hiding and then storing the photon solution). If you want sunlight use a dierctional light with a lower colourtemperature, and enable it's indirect light properties and tweak the photn radius to fit only the windows. You could also clone it and disable direct illum on the clones and set them to emit photons through the windows, and disable photons n the first sunlight. I have a file that I made a setup for, the thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197564)is also here in the forum, you can have it if you want to. just mail me at jmboekestein777@gmail.com.

pongball
02-17-2005, 09:57 PM
Ok this left me kind of confused. Do you mean there are two types of photons I have to enable? Am i correct in saying that:
1. Each light can have it's photons enabled
2. There is a "global" or g/i photon emitter

^ I know how to enable photons per each area light. I have no idea if enabling the photons in the render dialogue means "global" photons or not? Are these two separate photon solutions? Should they both be enabled at the same time? Since I'm very new at this, I cannot understand the terms regathering (and how to do it). As well, the cloning process and having the photons only fit the windows, i have absolutely no idea how to do that. Can you setup a simple scene and help me out? One with say 2 windows, 2 area lights, and one sunlight? Thanks!

Ps. The room.zip doesn't open on my pc for some reason, it says it's missing something. I have max 6.0

jmBoekestein
02-18-2005, 12:11 AM
I'll give it a go,

I hope I can attach .zip files, never done that.

pongball
02-18-2005, 01:10 AM
Awesome, thanks Jm :).
Let me know when you get that up! I could definately make use of that file, rip it apart, and possibly make way for a photon tutorial for new people like me!

jmBoekestein
02-18-2005, 05:30 PM
Hi Pongball,

I just want to add a few things up front. I kept it as simple as possible, no fancy stuff just a box with two windows, I added camera's already so you can see what it's doing. I suggest you try switching things on and of, to see what their effects are, I tried mimicking sunlight but that's a hard one to get right. Anyway, if you need help writing that tutorial let me know what you need. I'll gladly help, I know I had trouble at first to get started, it helps to have a guide for it.
I'll probably put some tutorials on my upcoming website too.

pongball
02-18-2005, 05:39 PM
^ Hey Jm!

Thanks so much for the help, I really appreciate what you're doing here. Yup, ill let you know when I get that tutorial up, i'll have you take a look @ it to see if everything's perfect. By the way, I unzipped the file you've attached, and for some reason the file has no extension to it? It didn't open in max6. I added a .max extension, and tried reopening it in max but it still failed. Any ideas?

jmBoekestein
02-18-2005, 06:01 PM
Your welcome,

but it's no use if you can't open the file. btw the fact that you can't see the extension, could that be due to the fact that you have your OS hiding the known file type extensions.

Have you tried merging the file with an empty scene? That works sometimes. I've tried looking for I/O plug-ins, but I couldn't find any, the only website I now that has a collection of plug-ins is maxplugins.de, they didn't have them.

Else it looks like it's back to written tutorials, I haven't got a clue what to do now.

pongball
02-19-2005, 12:09 AM
Jm,

I had someone with max7 try opening the file too... it seems to be broken or something. My pc itself shows all .max files with the little discreet logo, but this one didn't seem to have any association to it! Can you try saving the file as .max itself and throwing it up there? Thanks!

pongball
02-19-2005, 08:47 PM
bump for jm :)

MirageGraphics
02-21-2005, 03:47 AM
Another trick is to play with the indirect levels for your lights. As long as you have indirect on in your light settings, you can adjust the level. The default is 1. I usually set mine between 2 - 3 to allow more light than normal to bounce around. If you set it too high, you'll notice that the indirect light gets brighter than the direct - and the results are poor.
Here is an example of a kitchen i happen to be working on right now. There is only a small window for external light where the area light is located. I was able to use several spots in the ceiling and one omni in the center of the room to bump up the floor area. This was rendered with indirect on and one bounce. i did not use photons with this one - it was rendering fast enough for me that I didn't mind using QMC.
Mirage

jmBoekestein
02-21-2005, 10:36 AM
Sorry,

had a rough weekend! Wasn't quite capable of intelligent observations. I'll go check wether I saved it out correctly.

edit:looks like you're right, weird because I opened it afterwards to check if it hadn't gone bad, max 5 corrupts files sometimes.

edit2:resaved, and the max icon now appeared in the zip file too, I also checked for weird dll's. I'm using a newer version of Brazil which might not be the same as rio. resaving and rendering then should work fine.

jmBoekestein
02-21-2005, 10:50 AM
MirageGraphics,

looks like you got some artifacts using too high a multiplier. For instance under the fruitbowl, it looks like there's not enough shadow and I also miss a reflection. But there are ways to work around that I think. There was this guy on the splutterfish forum who had found a nice way to avoid using photons and used a higher multiplier as well. Who knows. Nice image btw.

pongball
02-22-2005, 05:09 AM
Hmmm odd, I tried the file again, and it looks to be exactly the same file as before, still having a problem opening it! :(

jmBoekestein
02-24-2005, 10:12 PM
I don't get it,

it must either be a version thing because I use max 5.0, or it's because I use the normal version of Brazil and not Rio.
I'll make it up to you, when I get my website up and running I'll make a tutorial on Brazil's photons as far as I can understand them.

pongball
02-28-2005, 12:08 AM
Thanks JM, props to ya :) !
Keep us updated later on when you get the tutorial running mate!

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