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View Full Version : Maya instructions tools--your opinions?

Lunatique
09-15-2002, 09:55 AM
Ok, here's my delimma:

1)I've planned a 10 minute animated short to be done in Maya, and will be spending the next couple of years to do it.

2)I'm pretty new to 3D, and would have to learn all aspects of production in order to do this project. A lot of people tell me it's impossible, but Tom Taylor did it. He made Dark Age of Light, an 11 minute 3D animated short in 18 months(using mostly Lightwave), doing it after work and on weekends. He also started on it as a 3D newbie too.

3)I've already started on pre-production, and will be moving into production when pre-production is done. But I don't have years to spend on learn everything--basically, I can't afford to do the "learn to crawl before you run thing". For example, When I learned to model, I didn't waste too much time doing all the newbie stuff like cartoon dogs and simple space ships..etc. I jumped straight into modeling a human head(http://www.enchanted.prohosting.com/3d/ruu/ruu.htm), and even though it isn't perfect, or even finished, I think I proved to myself that I have the ability to take advanced ideas and run with it and not waste time on very basic stuff.

4)So, now, I'm seeking out instructional material and try to cram it all in with the shortest time possible. I know I still need to do some scene tests to try out any new stuff I learn, and I will. But, I really need to spend my money carefully. Instructional materials aren't cheap, and there are a lot of choices. I've been looking at the learning tools from A/W and Gnomon, and I can't make up my mind.

The A/W stuff seems to be pretty general. They teach you the stuff by the book, and you'd have to learn how to implement them into your own production pipeline.

The Gnomon stuff seems very specific. They show you how THEY do it, in their production pipeline, and they show you all the neat tricks THEY use for their own work.

So, which ones are better for my situation? Should I go for the A/Wstuff, or the Gnomon stuff? Should I play mix and match? What are you experiences with the two companies' teaching material?

I know that all the answers I need are in the Maya Online Library, but the help files only explain how the tools work, not how to implement them in real life situations and what to avoid in a production pipeline. Learning how smooth binding works is very different from learning how to use smooth binding effectively in a production enviroment.
-wT-
09-15-2002, 12:31 PM
Ok, I'm not going to be much help, but I'd say that experience helps you alot.

I myself haven't even tried animating yet, I'm trying to learn modeling before I step into the world of animations, and I've noticed that although I've read dozens and dozens of tutorials, and watched all the timelapse's I could find, I still learn the best by making something.
Like, I start a head, it turns out crap, I start it again, it turns out crap, I start it again, it turns out not so crap than it used to be, I start it again... and so on :)

So, just animate 'till you drop. If it looks crap, try again... a couple hundred times :)


Ok maybe this doesn't apply to animation, but atleast you got your first reply :p
ambient-whisper
09-15-2002, 01:45 PM
wouldnt the best way to learn be to actually do a lil project? ( like a 30 second short )

either way youll need to learn everything by the end. so take it one step at a time.
get your story/shots figured out first. then model what you need while keeping in mind how the character will move in the story. acording to that you rig your model. ( need to learn? then take a few days out to read as many tutorials as you can, experiment and make a working rig for your character. once you have that you can animate..or go onto texturing ( which your already pretty good at )

i guess the point im making here is not to try to take soo much info in a little amount of time as possible. but rather to take baby steps. figure each topic out as you go. and solve problems as they come. its easier on you when you learn something and then put it to practice right after.
if you took everything in right away and then rig after you read into animating youll end up going back to the rigging books anyway.

so umm. i guess im not much help. just common sense :)

as far as maya info. www.highend3d.com will probably be one of your best friends.
Lunatique
09-15-2002, 04:02 PM
Hey, thanks for the suggestions.

I totally agree that reading everything in one go is a bad idea. My plan is to read on one topic, then do a test. Then read another topic, and do the next test..etc.

I think the reason I want to get the instructional materials is because a lot them usually teaches production proven ways to do certain things that are far more efficient than what I could come up with on my own through trial and error. Sometimes, a simple tip from a video or a book could totally improve the entire flow of your production pipeline.

I added up all the stuff I'm thinking about getting. Came out to $1250. That's a lot of dough, but 3D education has always been expensive. Oh well. Gotta bite that bullet.
ryguy
09-15-2002, 04:14 PM
If you do decide to go with any of the AW Maya or Gnomon trainning material, I suggest to take a look at E-Bay (http://www.ebay.com) before you go purchasing a bunch of videos/DVDs. I recieved some really good videos (the ones that I wanted) brand new for a fraction of the price. I've got a few of the Maya and Gnomon videos and BOTH are very good resources.

Aside from that, planning is everything but it looks like you have to process down so you should be in good shape.

Like a great deal of short films, many have been lost, cancelled, or put on the back burner... only because someone loses their fire and modivation because they're not inspired anymore. Don't let this happen to you :D

Oh yea, make daily backups... we'd all hate to see a post here saying your hard drive crashed and everything is lost... ;)

Good luck!

~Ryan
wedge
09-15-2002, 04:22 PM
if you jump into it now, it wont be consistend.... the first shots you do will be total crap, and the last few shots will be magnificent
phatgroovn
09-15-2002, 07:51 PM
The Gnomon tapes and online areas are the best Maya instruction out there, hands down.

Get em n learn, Alex Alvarez is a fantastic instructor.
DSedov
09-15-2002, 09:12 PM
As wgeddes pointed out, if you learn while you do your animation it will be inconsistant. But one thing poped to me after I read that.
If you learn modeling first then do all your models, then texturing and so forth there will be one small problem. All of those areas are interconnected, and without knowing one you won't do good job on the other. If you model you have to know what considered good topology for animatable character, you have to think of your model as a piece of clay. You dont want any weird geometric approximations of your model as it will be hard to animate. Like if you want to do a character a box like and be flexable, you dont want only 6 polygons. you need the whole bunch of them to have a flexable shape.. I think you get the idea.

The same goes with texturing. Just try to read at least basics if everything and then start going in depth of 3d so it won't be very painful when you move from one area to another.

Just my two cents
Lunatique
09-16-2002, 02:04 AM
Hey, thanks for more helpful replies.

ryguy- Hey, I didin't even think of that! I used to be an ebay regular, buying and selling for a couple of years. Thanks for reminding me!

phatgroovn- Ya, I agree. I watched all the freebie online videos and they are a blessing. I'm just a bit worried that most of their instructions are centered around their own pipeline, and more subjective than objective. But nevertheless, they are excellent instructions.

wgeddes/DSedov-- I had thought about that too, but I think in my case, with my personality, it might not be too much of a danger. I think it's a danger for most people because a lot of 3D guys are also new to art, and while they learn 3D, they are also just learning some of the fundamentals of art. In my case, I've been a traditional artist for many years, and I've studied filmmaking for many years too. I know EXACTLY what I want, and I won't allow myself to produce anything that's not feature quality. So, with every new thing I learn and try out, I would not settle for "This is good enough since I'm a newbie." I'll be pushing myself to hit that professional quality every ingle time, and no exceptions. Instead of doing something and say, "hat looks ok, lets move on to another thing," 'll keep doing that one thing until I think it's just as good as any professional work I've seen.

The catch 22 thing is a bit of a headache. I think to overcome that problem, I'll need to do one finished scene as a fodder, just so I can learn all the steps involved in production. Then, from there, continue with production with an optimized pipeline.
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