Model a Corinthian Column

[Cactus Dan]

Howdy,

Well, I usually box-model everything so that's how I would start. The top is symmetrical in two directions so you only need to model 1/4 of it. You'd set up your hierarchy like this:

HyperNURBS
+Symmetry
-+Symmetry.1
--+Cube

Set one Symmetry object to Mirror Plane ZY and the other Symmetry object to Mirror Plane XY. I've attached a rough example so you can see what I mean.

Adios,
Cactus Dan

[bobtronic]

This is not an easy object for your first 3D work. Especially the ornament on the capital is really
hard to make because there are many details. There is a lot of tweaking involved. I would say
boxmodeling or point-by-point.

Bob

[AdamT]

Seemed like an interesting thing to model so I'm doing a little video tut on it. Should be done tomorrow and I'll post it then.

[developer]

This is very interesting for me too, because we will be using the same type of column for one of our tuts for the NURBS plugin.
It is foreseen to be a combination of spline patch modeling for the screw, patching for the ornaments and a new type lofting for the column and the rest. But there are still some weeks of work in front of me before it is ready for the public...so lets go back to work.

developer

[Ph0n33z]

Wow guys thankyou SOOO much:

"This is not an easy object for your first 3D work. Especially the ornament on the capital is really
hard to make because there are many details."

I am aware of this, and that is why I chose to do it. I want to challenge myself, even if I dont succeed in it.

Seemed like an interesting thing to model so I'm doing a little video tut on it. Should be done tomorrow and I'll post it then.

:eek: *jaw drops........* I can not believe how generous you are being. All of you guys are truly good people. Thankyou so much for the help. I am going to try to do it with cactus' method, and look forward to the video VERY MUCH.

[Ph0n33z]

Hey cactus thanks for the model bro. I made the same thing, very very similair, as you have. So now I am wondering how I can get the edges softer without affecting the rest of the model? When I put it in hypernurbs and mess with nurbs weight, it starts getting very nasty....

Basically I want to turn the hard polygonal edges smooth

[sketchbook]

so we have a bunch of people who like to model columns and such eh?

i have a client that will pay for the following.

http://www.sketchbookinc.com/04.jpg
http://www.sketchbookinc.com/01.jpg

they also need texturing.

anyone want to try this out? i told the client that i did not have the time, but just told him again that i will try and find someone who can help me out.

if you are interested email me at

joe (at) sketchbookinc (dot) com

and i will let you know the details.

thanks

[Rooka]

Hi!

I modeled something similar for my webpage:
http://endergraphics.fmg.ro/html/3d/images/hormy_3d.jpg

If it helps you I can send you the *.c4d file :)

[Jannis]

you have an excellent offer from Adam, but this is actually alot easier than it looks at first.

The spiral can be done in seconds with matrix extrude. As for the leaf motifs, unless you are going for the painful option of making this in a single mesh (which would be realy pointles since I doubt you will be animating this) you can use instances or the array or even clone.

Even if you are looking for a completely realistic look making it out of several objects would pay since curving in marble often results in sharply defined volumes.

Of course you have always the option of bump maps for intricate detail

regards

jannis

[pzdm]

http://www.digitalmedia.cz/3dsoftware/forum_thread.asp?id=1481 (2*helix in loft + disc > convert > Bridge and you will use wireframe in top view for better control)...

[JIII]

aww jannis but what's the fun of learning to poly/box model if you use seperate objects ?? lol.

[Jannis]

Of course you can do it with one mesh, but if you model for an architect you would find 9 times out 10 yo will be using multiple objects.

Doing it for fun is another issue.

Even so, and you can shoot me down if you want, I would say that the right way for something like this would be multple objects. If you look at columns you would see clean sharp lines alot. From experience I can say that curvers of stone look for those clean edges. So a mixture of polys and nurbs would be the right way to go.

If anyone is starting out on edge loop/extrude modeling, then this project would be the wrong one in my opinion. Something more organic would do this justice. Like an animal, a flower or something like that.

Anyway, I am looking forward to Adam's solution.

regards

jannis

[Cactus Dan]

Howdy,

Hey cactus thanks for the model bro. I made the same thing, very very similair, as you have. So now I am wondering how I can get the edges softer without affecting the rest of the model? When I put it in hypernurbs and mess with nurbs weight, it starts getting very nasty....

Basically I want to turn the hard polygonal edges smooth

OK, I went back and fiddled with it some more. Were you trying to atchieve the look in the attached image?

Adios,
Cactus Dan

[Ph0n33z]

Alright:

Firstly, to respond to Jannis. I have no disagreement with you. I am just getting into architectural visualizations, and this is for my first project. Modeling in one mesh is not something I need to, or even want, to do. So creating multiple objects is the right direction for me.

Secondly, to respond to pzdm: Thanks a lot for the link! I do not know german, but I can try and understand what they are doing. LOL

Thirdly, to respond to cactus: That is the look I am trying to achieve with the rounded edges. Mine sharing you technique?

Finally, I experimented with it and I used a series of extrudes to create the spiral. Let me tell you, it wasnt easy hehehe. Also, Jannis how would I go about using a matrix extrude to create the column? Lastly, I PROMISE, rooka could you share your technique for creating that magnifiscant column?

P.S. I meant to say Ionic Column, not corinthian. The pic I showed was an ionic, not a corinthian. Just to clear that up hehehe.

Thanks guys!

EDIT: I just tried using a helix+sweep with a square and the spiral looks great! Now to figure out how to model the rest LOL. but I still want to see how you guys accomplish it.

[Cactus Dan]

Howdy,

That is the look I am trying to achieve with the rounded edges. Mine sharing you technique?

It's just a weighted HyperNURBS with subdivision set to 3. I selected different groups of edges and gave them different weights. The model is still the same as the rough example. I just moved the points around so that the scroll was a bit more even and then added a little more detail toward the middle behind the scroll. One thing to remember is that the inside corners can be a little sharper than the outside corners.

What did yours look like when you tried weighting the HyperNURBS?

Adios,
Cactus Dan

[Ph0n33z]

Well it wasnt only the hybernurbs that I didnt like, it was the actual spiral as well. I used extrusions to form it, and at the end of several tries i found it to be lacking percision. Now I am trying it with a helix and sweep. But please still give tips and techniques everyone.

EDIT: However, I am having a problem getting the helix to be at the same x point throughout. The top and center seem to curve outwards. I can not find the setting to fix this....

[developer]

"Secondly, to respond to pzdm: Thanks a lot for the link! I do not know german, but I can try and understand what they are doing. LOL"
@Ph0n33z

I would love to understand this, too, but i can't, although i am german. Maybe it's because it is written in czech ... *g*

developer

[AdamT]

Alrighty, the fist two parts of the tutorial are online and the next two parts should be up in an hour or so. The first part is pretty huge (around 32mb Flash file), sorry, but it will stream after a while. The other parts are half as big or less.

Part 1: http://www.3danvil.com/Ionic/Column1.html
Part 2: http://www.3danvil.com/Ionic/Column1.5.html

As I mention somewhere, there are many ways you could approach this modeling job and the method I chose isn't necessarily the best way. But it works and it provides a pretty good introduction to some of R9's poly modeling tools and techniques. Hope it helps!

[Ph0n33z]

Adamn I can not thank you enough for your kindness. It is so nice to see someone who truly cares about others and their development in 3d. I cant WAIT to watch!

If there is anything you need. Ever. I am your man.

[AdamT]

My pleasure man. Most of what I've learned about 3d I've learned through the good graces of users who were kind enough to share their knowledge. It's only right that I should give some back.

Part 3: http://www.3danvil.com/Ionic/Column2.html

[Tiziano]

Adam, as usual, YOU THE MAN :thumbsup:

[AdamT]

Aw shucks. :blush:

Part 4: http://www.3danvil.com/Ionic/Column4.html

You'll be relieved to know there's no audio with this one. :)

[Ph0n33z]

I just finished watching the vidz. They were great bro. Very very nicely done. Now to try it myself! Then on to the detailed parts! Thanks to everyone who helped me out with this!

Thanks again!

[ooo]

Great stuff Adam! Very cool that you answer this question with a whole Video tutorial!
And....did Mash already contracted you for the next 3D Fluff DVD?

thanks, odo

[Jannis]

here is a movie that shows you how to do this, about 3 mb long

http://www.labelleart.com/temp/matrix.mov

just saw that adam has posted his movie, only now come back from teaching. I am going to have a look

Had a look at adams movies. very good and very entertaining. I love the sound effects as you go along. I for one would love to see you do more.

Anyway, here is the whole spiral using the matrix and a spline guide like adams. I think this is such an underused tool and it is made for this kind of thing.

http://www.labelleart.com/temp/matrix_spiral.swf


regards

jannis

[Ph0n33z]

Great vidz Jannis. I didnt know that matrix extrude could be used for that. I do have some questions about it though:

1. Would it not be faster to just use a sweep nurbs on the helix? Instead of using matrix extrude?

2. But more importantly, how would you then go about creating the rest of the model as shown in Adam's vidz? Such as the back for the scroll, etc without having to use too many separate meshes?

Also I wanted to tell Adam how perfect he is for tutorials. Your voice is great,( like the southern accent, hehehe), and you are very clear and precise. I smell success!

[Cybergooch]

Thanks Adam!

Always good to watch someone working to pick up tips. Hey, what's the utility you're running to pin and rollup your windows?

[Ph0n33z]

Well, in my first two tries I managed to screw things up. First, when I went to extrude, I found that every polygon had been doubled. There was another one right on top of the previous. Then, when I went to set it into a hypernurb, I found a horrific mess.....

Time to watch again............

P.S. Adam, do you think you could rar up the vidz so i could d/l them? If not, ill just use a web grabber....

Thanks again man!

[AdamT]

Cool idea Jannis, but I agree with PhOn33z; it would be easier to extrude along the spline.

Eric, the utilit is called Filebox Extender. Worth its weight in gold AFAIC. http://www.hyperionics.com/

PhOn33z, I'm glad you liked it but I don't have a southern accent. :) It's funny, I grew up in the Wash DC area and everyone from north of there thinks I have a southern accent. Everyone from south of there thinks I sound like a yankee. I guess five years in Nashville, eight in New Orleans, and four in Miami have bent it a little more toward the south.

[Ph0n33z]

wow........looks like we posted at the same time lol

You have a very diverse upringing there man. I guess all of the different accents formed into a solely unique one. The Adam! hehehe

[pzdm]

Czech! We are fought thousand years with German nations and you said GERMAN :-). We are Slavs....


Alright:

Firstly, to respond to Jannis. I have no disagreement with you. I am just getting into architectural visualizations, and this is for my first project. Modeling in one mesh is not something I need to, or even want, to do. So creating multiple objects is the right direction for me.

Secondly, to respond to pzdm: Thanks a lot for the link! I do not know german, but I can try and understand what they are doing. LOL

Thirdly, to respond to cactus: That is the look I am trying to achieve with the rounded edges. Mine sharing you technique?

Finally, I experimented with it and I used a series of extrudes to create the spiral. Let me tell you, it wasnt easy hehehe. Also, Jannis how would I go about using a matrix extrude to create the column? Lastly, I PROMISE, rooka could you share your technique for creating that magnifiscant column?

P.S. I meant to say Ionic Column, not corinthian. The pic I showed was an ionic, not a corinthian. Just to clear that up hehehe.

Thanks guys!

EDIT: I just tried using a helix+sweep with a square and the spiral looks great! Now to figure out how to model the rest LOL. but I still want to see how you guys accomplish it.

[Ph0n33z]

LOL. Im so sry man! My bad. I didnt even take a close look at the writing. I just saw it was foreign, and it usually is german. (for some weird reason most foreign language sites other than asian/spanish are german....go figure)..

I am sorry if I offended you bro. =(

P.S. I am German...........American though hehehe.

[Continuumx]

Alrighty, the fist two parts of the tutorial are online and the next two parts should be up in an hour or so. The first part is pretty huge (around 32mb Flash file), sorry, but it will stream after a while. The other parts are half as big or less.



As I mention somewhere, there are many ways you could approach this modeling job and the method I chose isn't necessarily the best way. But it works and it provides a pretty good introduction to some of R9's poly modeling tools and techniques. Hope it helps!

Excellent tutorial Adam,

I have one suggestion, on the third video at the begining when you are selecting the polygons for scroll edges, there is an radius option for the select tool that is set to default of 10- ( I have no idea why it is set default so high) but lower this down to like 1 and it will make your polygon selection so much more pleasing and precise! I usually keep it around 1 - 4 for precision stuff and only go higher when I need gross selection of polygons etc.

I really appreciate your methodology for modeling very interesting and good to learn from!

[acm7110]

Thank's Adam good tutorial I'm learned more about modeling. Just one question:

Why scale the vertices an then move it, instead of only move the points down???

Are there a specific reason?

[AdamT]

Why scale the vertices an then move it, instead of only move the points down???
No real reason, you can do it either way.

[acm7110]

No real reason, you can do it either way.

Thank you for the info... no doubt you are a Master!!

[edfenner]

Great Tut Adam - not only good information but one of the more entertaining I have seen. Nice to compare to Jannis's also. Better with your voice than without.
I hope more folks on here do these, it is nice to hear the voice and get the sense of someone whos posts you have read.

Since you weren't talking on the third, not sure your intentions, but I would make the comment that instead of creating each of those ridges separately and doing all that eyeballing I would suggest it would be better to make one and copy it a couple times - ensures they are the same and reduces the workload.

Well done man!

ed

[AdamT]

Yeah, it's weird hearing the voice of someone you've only known through the NET isn't it? Weird in a good way though. Maybe instead of the usual post your picture thread we should have a post your voice thread. Something like, "hi my name is..." and say a little bit about yourself.

Anyway, someone mentioned that they'd like to be able to save the tut files to disk. You should be able to do that by doing the "save target as" thing on the following links:

http://www.3danvil.com/Ionic/Column1.swf
http://www.3danvil.com/Ionic/Column1.5.swf
http://www.3danvil.com/Ionic/Column2.swf
http://www.3danvil.com/Ionic/Column4.swf

[Ph0n33z]

Thanks so much for the links Adam. Now I can watch it until I get it right hehe!

Thanks again my friend!

[Ph0n33z]

I feel like an idiot................

this is my 4th time doing the tut, and I screw up somehow along the way. I even tried doing it a lil differently, more carefully, and i still got the same result....

Here is a pic:

http://img96.exs.cx/img96/2241/nurbsgonewild8kz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Siddhy]

Thanks Adam. Its always interesting to look at other peoples workflow. There are so many ways to do something :) And you're right about the voice. Its very nice to hear you guys talk. I also enjoy the tutorials by 3dkiwi. You guys talk very different from what we learn in school *g* If it wasn't so time consuming i'd like to talk to some of you via Skype.

Cheers,
siddhy

[AdamT]

Hey PhOn33z, if you can post the file somewhere I'd be happy to look at it. Or send it to adamt [at] 3danvil [dot] com.

[Ph0n33z]

I sent the file to your email. How do i post a file using the forum?

[AdamT]

There are a number of minor problems with the mesh, but the big one is the highlighted polys (not just the ones with arrows) below:

http://www.3danvil.com/illegal_polys.jpg

You can't use HN with an object that has more than two polys meeting at a single edge, or it will destroy the smoothing (as you dicovered). Just delete those polys and 90% of your problems will go away. Well, then you'll discover some more problem polys behind those, but delete those too and you'll be on your way. Sorry if I didn't make this clear in the tut. :/

Other problems come down to triangles, ngons, and unwelded vertices, all of which can be cleaned up by hand.

[tcastudios]

I watched your tuts with great joy AdamT! As you initally said, Seemed like an interesting thing to model and I just had a go at it myself.
Since I'm lazy and I want Cinema to do as much as possible by "itself" I came up with a setup focusing on the helix part.
The initial key was to set the helix up with "natural" points "0" and a low even subdivision.
That way the rest went pretty much by itself.

Please have a look at these (http://homepage.mac.com/tcastudios/Stills/006ColonTut.htlm/index.htm) picts and the scene with all steps here (http://homepage.mac.com/tcastudios/Cinema/014ColonTut.c4d.zip)

Cheers
Lennart

[Cartesius]

Interesting techniques all around! I really like your approach, Lennart, will have to keep that in mind.

/Anders

[AdamT]

Very nice Lennart! There are indeed many ways to skin a cat--as is ably demonstrated by my gruesome and bloody basement. :)

[Ph0n33z]

good job lennart! Its nice to see the different approaches. If you read back, my initial approach was very similair. I created the helix and then used the square sweep. HOwever, I wasnt sure as to the best way to create the rest from that while keeping things clean. Thanks for going through with the rest!

Adam: I am going to go back to the mesh and see if that fixes things. Also, for future use, how do you locate polygons that are overlapping eachother?

[soapy]

Hey Adam thanks for the videos, I watched those and enjoyed them. I think I may save them for when I get 9 so I can get up to speed on the new tools.

[Simon Wicker]

if anyone is interested in the actual geometric construction of any of the various orders of column used in architecture i can recommend the dover edition of andrea palladio's 'the four books of architecture' and 'vitruvius on architecture' by thomas gordon smith. these both have an interesting set of breakdowns showing just how to make roman architecture using the correct proportions (vitruvius is the original roman source and palladio wrote his book in the 1500's).

the scrollwork on an ionic column is based around a helix diminishing on a square grid, which if you drew it out in an application like freehand would allow you to create the perfect scroll that would just require extruding (rather than modelling poly by poly).

however this is just the pedantic side of me speaking of course (although there is something quite cool about making a model and knowing that it is completely faithful to the source and not just eyeballed).

cheers, simon w.

[dAfTiE]

Really nice vids Adam :)
One thing I noticed on the 4th one tho.
To tighten up the ridges you extruded there, just do a ring selection,
cut a new loop down the middle of'em and bevel the new edges.
Same result and much easier than using the loop knife,as it can be a bit fiddly at times.

[Cartesius]

although there is something quite cool about making a model and knowing that it is completely faithful to the source and not just eyeballed.

I know. :)

/Anders

[edfenner]

lennart - thanks for adding to this look at diffeent methods. Nice approach and good results.

ed

[mesaticus]

These were awesome to watch AdamT. Not that I specifically need a column :), but as a new user to Cinema, being able to see techniques or different things in the workflow of the program was awesome.

I hope to see more in the future :)

[AdamT]

I'm glad you guys enjoyed the tutorial. Unfortunately I had to take it down temporarily as it sucked up my allotted bandwidth (and a good deal more!). I think I'll make it smaller and put it up again at the beginning of March.

[soapy]

No worries, it is lucky I grabbed them and stowed them then.

[boxy]

good thread, great tutorials too. Thank you. I wonder if Adam could notify us when they're back up as I didn't get chance to save them anywhere?
Cheers
Boxy

[dAfTiE]

I'd be more than happy to donate some bandwidth if you feel like making a torrent of them or something,
or maybe they can be hosted over at c4dcafe?
I'd drop 3DKiwi a PM and ask,because these tuts deserve to be watched by more people :)

[pzdm]

Hi there, I perpare some articles on this theme. These articles will be published on czech C4D community server www.3dsoftware.cz (http://www.3dsoftware.cz). First article starts probably next week. Oh, yes. These articles will be on czech :-), of course, but I prepare many pictures. This is my final pict of these tutorials:
http://www.3dgrafika.cz/showimage.php3?id=17773

[marcom]

if anyone is interested in the actual geometric construction of any of the various orders of column used in architecture i can recommend the dover edition of andrea palladio's 'the four books of architecture' and 'vitruvius on architecture' by thomas gordon smith.

ha! i knew that this books not only collect dust in my shelf but might be usefull to something... now i only wish that someone would get rid of all the dust first...

cheers
marcom

[flingster]

this is a cool thread...real sense of achievement and community...great sharing of ideas etc.
just a quick note of thanks to all those who contributed there time...keep it up..
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Ph0n33z]

Well I am so glad I asked this question! lol..

It was truely amazing to see everyone come together like this. I can not tell you how much it meant to me.

pzdm: Your columns look GREAT man. That is exactly what I was looking for. By any chance, do you know of a good online translator for czech? I would love to read the articles!

[pzdm]

Translate, uff this is very difficult task for me :-(, but in these articles will be many (really) pictures and thus it´s will be synoptic for all... I promise.



Well I am so glad I asked this question! lol..

It was truely amazing to see everyone come together like this. I can not tell you how much it meant to me.

pzdm: Your columns look GREAT man. That is exactly what I was looking for. By any chance, do you know of a good online translator for czech? I would love to read the articles!

[Cartesius]

Translate, uff this is very difficult task for me :-(, but in these articles will be many (really) pictures and thus it´s will be synoptic for all... I promise.

My experience with 3D tutorials written in a language I can't understand is that I have little to no problems following them. As long as there are images illustrating what's going on the text is not crucial for understanding.

/Anders

[base80]

By the way it is an Ionic column. Corinthian has acanthus leaves, and the Doric has a rounded pillow on top.

http://www.msjc.edu/art/djohnson/images/art%20101%20images/chapter%205/orders.jpg
Doric - Ionic - Corinthian
Corinthian is harder to make

[Triker]

Check out this link. DWG files!

http://www.aristonedesigns.com/columncat/corinthian.htm

[Cartesius]

Any way to get Cinema to recognize DWG-files?

/Anders

[mt_sabao]

Hi all, very cool thread!

Adam: I didn´t have the chance to see the tuts, and i will be more than happy to host them for you, if you ´d like to, I have no bandwidth problems.

Cheers
Luis C.

[AdamT]

Very kind of you to offer Luis, but the files total over 100mb (!). I recorded over 10 Gb in traffic in a couple of days. Still interested? :)

[Triker]

DWG -C4D

Open DWG file in illustrator and export as eps. Import or merge to C4D

[Ph0n33z]

By the way it is an Ionic column. Corinthian has acanthus leaves, and the Doric has a rounded pillow on top.


Doric - Ionic - Corinthian
Corinthian is harder to make

Thanks for the notice, but we established this very early on. I said on the first page I believe that I had written the wrong type. But thanks again!

[Ric535]

Missed the boat :sad:

[Continuumx]

Any way to get Cinema to recognize DWG-files?

/Anders

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=178621

Easy as one...two..three

[mt_sabao]

hi adam, sure thing.
Just pass me the files and will host em so that some of the folks (like me) that missed the boat can have em. i have space here at work, and i guess that for a few days there won´t be a problem. specially during the weekend nobody will miss the bandwidth ;)

so, wayting for those files
Cheers
Luis C.

[Cartesius]

DWG -C4D

Open DWG file in illustrator and export as eps. Import or merge to C4D
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=178621 (http://showthread.php?t=178621)

Easy as one...two..three

Thanks, I will try both suggestions!

/Anders

[carom]

Would really appreciate the opportunity to download those tutorials. Thank you Adam!

[mt_sabao]

Hi all,
For those who missed the boat, here are the files. Adam passed them for me to host.

Save as:
part1 (http://luis.multimeios.pt/Column1.swf)
part2 (http://luis.multimeios.pt/Column1.5.swf)
part3 (http://luis.multimeios.pt/Column2.swf)
part4 (http://luis.multimeios.pt/Column4.swf)

Cheers all
Luis C.

[Brian_Smith]

those take a long time to download, but thank you for making them Adam.

edit- the transparent background image doesn't seem to work for me. it's gray and i can't make it transparent.

[Ric535]

Hi all,
For those who missed the boat, here are the files. Adam passed them for me to host.

Save as:
part1 (http://luis.multimeios.pt/Column1.swf)
part2 (http://luis.multimeios.pt/Column1.5.swf)
part3 (http://luis.multimeios.pt/Column2.swf)
part4 (http://luis.multimeios.pt/Column4.swf)

Cheers all
Luis C.

ooh thanks downloading them now :)

[pzdm]

Firts part of column tutorial is out!
http://www.digitalmedia.cz/3dsoftware/show.asp?nid=167

[Pegasus]

Anywone could share the final complete model of the colum please!

:-)

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.