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Kaiser_Sose
09-15-2002, 03:24 AM
http://www.vetorzero.com/kaya/index.html

Valkyrien
09-15-2002, 04:57 AM
true, but she is not LW...:rolleyes:

http://www.vetorzero.com/kaya/siteimages/KAYA2TEXTO.gif

Kaiser_Sose
11-09-2002, 08:08 AM
Her screen test are now available ... un freakin believeable

Psyhke
11-09-2002, 08:46 AM
The images are really, really nice. The animation, however, seems full of quirky, cg movement.

(not that I could do better, mind you).

wgreenlee1
11-09-2002, 09:12 AM
This stuff is really old.
I know I saw it there at least a year ago.
I wonder if he is still working on it or what?

Shadowed_link
11-09-2002, 09:47 AM
The skin tone is fantastic, it's the main thing which gives the 'real life effect'.

Is it possible to create this effect easily on lightwave, or must you work hard to achieve it?

haven't used skin textures b4 :shrug:

ThirdEye
11-09-2002, 11:52 AM
I don't like it that much. Don't get me wrong, this is a masterpiece, (Surely I can't do better, mind it) but I think that she seems a doll more than a girl. Look at Ulf Lundgren, Renč Morel, Robert Kuczera or Julian J characters: they seem alive! Their expression is deep and their eyes seem so natural!

dark_lotus
11-09-2002, 12:02 PM
The only thing that looks fake is the render, it doesn't look like it was photographed.

I do like it, even if it is Maya.

Is it possible to create this effect easily on lightwave, or must you work hard to achieve it?

Well the effect is a combination of texturing and lighting. I'm not sure whether he's used some sort of SSS, but it looks great.

SSS, can be done but not out of the box, as for GI and texturing. Out of the Box.

and if you run into Jimzip, (which i'm sure you will) tell him to destroy Maya.

(this is an inside joke)

Jimzip
11-09-2002, 12:48 PM
Lucky I read this post!
You two are like two little... things that... do stuff...

I'm leaving now, I crushed my own confidence...:annoyed:

By the way, I haven't seen the animation.. But the pics look really great!

Joril
11-09-2002, 01:53 PM
This stuff is really old.
ya...

SplineGod
11-09-2002, 06:53 PM
Heres some links to very realistic heads done in LW in a LOT less time. :)
http://www.jkanimator.20m.com/ron.htm
and check this thread out:
http://forums.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/17869.html?

Labuzz
11-09-2002, 07:13 PM
Model an attractive woman with a pretty face is very difficult...This one is very nice nothing to say.

ChrisR
11-09-2002, 11:17 PM
The images are really, really nice. The animation, however, seems full of quirky, cg movement.

The animation isn't that bad. What seems to be missing are those ancillary movements of the cheeks and forehead, etc.

She's talking with just her mouth. Most people use the muscles of the cheeks, jaw and forehead when they speak. It helps convey the undelying emotion.

All in all, though, very good character work! Modeling, shading/paint and animation.

takkun
11-10-2002, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
I don't like it that much. Don't get me wrong, this is a masterpiece, (Surely I can't do better, mind it) but I think that she seems a doll more than a girl. Look at Ulf Lundgren, Renč Morel, Robert Kuczera or Julian J characters: they seem alive! Their expression is deep and their eyes seem so natural! LOL!!!! Ulf Lundgren and Robert Kuczera renders looks so alive because they are, they just plastered photos on some geometry. 100% reality with 0% flexibility- I'd love to see them try and animate those or put them in a different lighting situation, then you can see how useless that method is.
Heres some links to very realistic heads done in LW in a LOT less time.
SplineDeity, that Ron head looks absolutely horrible! While technically it has it's merits, it's problem is that it doesn't have any personality. It looks like Mr. Ron was a frontal lobotomy patient that just fell off the bumpkin truck. While the Kaya model that Kaiser mentioned is just beaming with personality and the spark of life.

SplineGod
11-10-2002, 02:09 AM
Youre missing the point...Kaya was worked on for a very long time. The WHOLE Ron character...modeling, texturing and rigging was done in under a week. The texturing on it is awesome and uses no hair plugs....its all image maps. This was part of the stuff for the Dan Dare TV Series now airing in the UK and NZ. If you could see the character animated it DOES have life and personality.

Labuzz
11-10-2002, 12:20 PM
I agree with you Felytendect.And We are not talking about productivity or competition here...
But the girl model example from Larry is a lot better than the man...Maybe have you a link with animation Larry?

yon dabuda
11-10-2002, 01:17 PM
kaya... well, if i stand like 5 feet away, with my near sightedness, looks pretty nice.
but if im a foot or two away, it's not as pleasant to look at. its not bad, but there are a few things about the model and the texturing that bothers me a lot.
i can explain in detail but id rather not use the time, just to say that she looks like a teenager with horrible skin, from the lines on the lips, to the marks on the face, the spots on the teeth, the texture stretching on the nose. what bothers me most though is the shape of the nose, how its missing the ridge under the nostrals reminds me of michael jackson's nose after all the jobs.

SplineGod's examples are much better, although the guy looks like hes missing his corneas and his lips are dry, the skin and hair actually look like skin and hair. the lips and eyes on the girl look alive. there is depth in the eyes and softness on the lips. theres warmth in their skins.

i give kaya a generous 6 :) and the model by Martin Murphy, an 8 *

a 10 is unattainable, except for those who suck.
ok now im bored.

Labuzz
11-10-2002, 01:53 PM
yon dabuda

You are a very Big Mouth and this kind of words make me sick:



i give kaya a generous 6 and the model by Martin Murphy, an 8 *

yon dabuda
11-10-2002, 01:56 PM
i dont see anything wrong with what i said, in this forum we rate peoples work all the time. that was personal opinion, if you dont like it, fine :)
i never said the artist sucks. i dont know what your problem is.
an maybe a 6 in my book is pretty good. maybe im a 4, maybe i'm a 3, woop. maybe im just being honest.
and maybe some more honesty, maybe i think you make me sick.
or maybe i dont care.

takkun
11-11-2002, 01:44 AM
Labuzz: Your rating system sucks!!! I hope you go to #$^^ in a hand basket! You should go #@$% yourself and save me the trouble!

yon dabuda: Go suck an egg! I can say whatever I #@$%ing want to, you little @#&*!

EDIT> ;) :p :scream: :thumbsup: :D :cool: :beer: - just making sure that people know that I'm joking.

Labuzz
11-11-2002, 10:26 AM
I dont care about any rating system...
I dont understand your reaction...

whattawa
11-11-2002, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Felytendect
Labuzz: Your rating system sucks!!! I hope you go to #$^^ in a hand basket! You should go #@$% yourself and save me the trouble!

yon dabuda: Go suck an egg! I can say whatever I #@$%ing want to, you little @#&*!

Wow, someone got up on the wrong side of the bed. Why would someone freak like that? Anyway, in regards to whether this is a great model or not, it is a good model. They don't capture facial animation all that well, but I can't say I have seen many better attempts. The face is very difficult to do, as is mentioned by other people, so I don't hold it against the animators. I couldn't do any better.

The real issue has also been mentioned, which is whether you can use the character in any kind of lighting setup and still look good. On top of all that, whether a figure has expression or not is a fairly subjective issue. I have met many people who have hardly any expression in their face, but I didn't accuse them of being a CG character! ;)

takkun
11-11-2002, 08:15 PM
Hmmm, my sense of humor seems to have gone off the deep end lately, sorry.

PNelson
11-11-2002, 08:42 PM
A good example of how important detailed Texturing can be!

Philip Nelson
NewTek

whattawa
11-11-2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Felytendect
Hmmm, my sense of humor seems to have gone off the deep end lately, sorry.

LOL, the funny thing was, I almost put in something about the possibility that what you wrote was all a joke, but it can be hard to tell without a little winking smilie ;)

:beer: :bounce: :applause: :wavey:

Of course, some people just don't like to use those smilies :p

yon dabuda
11-12-2002, 02:30 AM
Felytendect:
well i thought it was pretty funny :)
people seem to ignore or dont see the subject of your post.

takkun
11-12-2002, 07:25 AM
Woohoo! My 300th post!!!!


I was browsing insidecg today at work when my boss wasn't looking and came across a great head modeling tutorial (albeit two years old) that's similar in style to the Inside Lightwave tut and the Evil Plan tut. There's a free overview of the tutorial on insidecg and on the artist's site he sells an 822 page tutorial with 800 screen shots (on cd) that details every step. Has anyone bought this cd? I'm very interested and am probably going to buy it tomorrow.

http://www.insidecg.com/feature.php?id=14

http://divinion.com/

Here's what the finished model looks like:

Dark_Des
11-12-2002, 09:03 PM
great pic, really.

SplineGod
11-13-2002, 02:01 AM
This brings up an interesting thing about modeling methods.
The method that Todd Grimes (Evil Plan), Stuart Aitken and this guy Miles are similar point by point approaches. All 3 of these guys were great artists before ever touching Lightwave. All 3 seem to like to do a lot of tweaking and noodling until the head looks like what they have in their minds. In fact a good artist can pretty much model any way they want because they know what its supposed to look like. Thats what good art training or lots of practice do for you. For the majority of those people who dont have lots of art training or background point by point modeling is a very difficult method to use to be able to get good results quickly. Tweaking and tweaking is no fun when you dont have a strong vision of what the final result will be before you start. This is a good reason to take some art classes such as figure drawing and so on or just get some books and practice. In all the seminars Ive done (World Wide Tour, Next Dimension Tour) I see it over and over again...lots of people who love 3d and are being paid to produce art regardless if they have a hardcore art background or not. In almost every case they have tried to follow many tutorials that teach point by point and most fail at it.
One of the things I try and do while teaching how to model a head is teach rules about proportions. I show how to start with a single polygon and work it into a good head by following certain rules about proportions, flow and structure. Its a similar approach you might find in books or classes that teach how to draw heads.
For those 3 people Ive mentioned above they know that stuff and can skip many steps that theyve learned a long time ago. For the less experience or art challenged a more basic, methodical and simple approach has to be taught. This means you have to learn the rules before you can break them. Ive yet to have total newbies when it comes to 3D or organic modeling fail to produce a decent head in a short time by following this methodical approach that I use when teaching.

takkun
11-13-2002, 09:14 AM
There is no 2-day seminar or online course that can transform a newbie into a great 3d artist. I'm sure that Larry agrees with me on that point. All that Larry promises with his course is the opportunity to learn a basic method that creates decent results in a short time. He is not promising that people will learn how to create beautiful works of art like Miles Estes' "Mia" model or Stuart Aiken's or Todd Grimes' models. These are great 3d artists with strong traditional backgrounds and that is very important to create their calibar of artwork. It takes hard work, observation and most importantly, practice in traditional drawing or sculpting to acheive great results like the ones just mentioned.

It doesn't matter what technique you use to create a model, what really matters is your artistic knowledge and talent.

Here's a great quote from Miles Estes:Since I'm not a very experienced 3-D artist, I would certainly not trust my techniques. I've only been animating professionally for just over a year and a half, and modeling as a hobby for under a year. But if I can give any advice to those who would like to improve their realistic type models, I'd say draw. I sincerely believe that keen observational skills are of the utmost importance when it comes to reproducing anything.

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