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Theropoda
02-14-2005, 11:52 AM
hi!

a few weeks ago, I posted a still of my t-rex:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=205950

and I have promised to animate it. so, here it is, a walkcycle. completely rigged, weighted and animated with soft ik (totally rocks!) in cinema with mocca 2.
i recommend watching it in loop mode, although there is a little interruption, because first and last frame don't fit together completely:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/dinosaurs3d/rex_3.mov

greetings,
gŁnter

RickardAx
02-14-2005, 12:11 PM
Hi GŁnter
Very nice walkcykle. You have managed to get a great feeling to the moves, he really feels heavy. The neck wobble is also nice. The only thing thats not spotless is the left foot just before he lifts it. It kind of float in the air for a little while.
Rickard

bobzilla
02-14-2005, 12:18 PM
I can't seem to get the link to work. And I can't read German, so I'm not sure what I'm seeing.

Anyone else having a problem??

JacquesPena
02-14-2005, 12:21 PM
edited: Just right click and save the link :thumbsup:
Beautiful job! :)

bcbarnes
02-14-2005, 01:32 PM
That looks really good. My only comment is that the small front "legs/arms" appear to be "dangling" a bit much. Of course, having never seen a T-Rex in motion, that may be just interpretation, but my "gut" feeling is that such a powerful animal would have those limbs under a little more control.

Man, I wish I could do so well...

Brian.

bobzilla
02-14-2005, 02:34 PM
Nice job, gŁnter!

Agree with the other crits. The left foot lifts straight up off the ground without the toes pointing down. Arms might be tucked under the body more when it's wlaking around.

I know when animating my dino, it's difficult to think of what the arms should be doing. On a person, they would swing back and forth.

Best part: neck jiggle!!! Is that a separate Soft IK chain in addition to a structural bone chain for the neck?

Kuroyume0161
02-14-2005, 02:42 PM
I saved the file, but QT says:

"Couldn't open the file "rex_3.mov" because it is not a file that QuickTime understands."

QT 6.5.2 Pro here.

bobzilla
02-14-2005, 02:57 PM
Kuroyume0161: I had the same problem. It may be your browser. I'm on a Mac and I first tried it in OS 9, Netscape 4.7, IE 5 (I know...very old). Then I tried it in OS 10, Netscape 7, and it downloaded OK and played fine.

I don't think it downloads properly in some browsers.

Theropoda
02-14-2005, 03:21 PM
thanks for the comments!

i have noticed that issue with the foot leaving the ground too early. i'll try to fix that.

the wabbling of the neck is'nt any extra bone chain or something difficult, it's just so simple: it's an animated wind-object restricted to a vertex-selection :)

greetings
gŁnter

bobzilla
02-14-2005, 03:24 PM
You have GOT to show me how you did that!! Explanation or simple scene file would be very much appreciated!

Even more than muscle simulation I think the thing that sells a creature is the jiggle.

Thanks...

Kuroyume0161
02-14-2005, 04:04 PM
Kuroyume0161: I had the same problem. It may be your browser. I'm on a Mac and I first tried it in OS 9, Netscape 4.7, IE 5 (I know...very old). Then I tried it in OS 10, Netscape 7, and it downloaded OK and played fine.

I don't think it downloads properly in some browsers.

Definitely not. Mozilla 1.7.3 and FireFox 1.0 both had difficulties and I've not had problems with QT in them before. IE 6 worked though.

Very nice work, gŁnter!

I'd like to see you extend the animation (fixing those little bugs) and put the T.Rex into its natural environment. A challenge (and a surrogate for stuff that I'd like to eventually do!). :)

Theropoda
02-14-2005, 05:22 PM
@bobzilla:
i'm sorry but i can't share the file. but i can give you an explanation, it's really simple:

you just take a wind deformation objekt and make it a child of the polygonal mesh of your character. then, you paint a vertex map: just weight the points you want to jiggle. name the vertex-map.
now give your wind-deformer a restriction tag and fill in the name of the vertex-map.
all you have to do now is to adjust the settings of the wind-deformer, that means maybe turn the objekt, adjust amplitude, size and frequency.

in my case, i wanted the skin to jiggle every time he does a step. so, i animated the amplitude of the wind-deformer: when the foot touches the ground, i make a key, and set the amplitude value to a maximum. a bit later, i make another key, with the value at 0.

that's all, hope it helped

gŁnter

bobzilla
02-14-2005, 05:30 PM
Thanks very much for the explaination (I understand about not giving out the file).

I'll give it a try.

Cybergooch
02-14-2005, 05:45 PM
Daaang...

That looks great!! Very cool about the wind technique.

escondar
02-15-2005, 01:27 AM
Very well done TREX walk. And thanks for the wind deformer tip. I'm gonna try it now!

Note. One sees a LOT of dino animations of various qualities in these forums. This is truly one of the most life like. Attention to detail like the neck flab and the dangling paws makes all the difference. Looking forward to seeing more stuff from you. I'm producing a totally CGI feature currently and am on the look out for artists like yourself.

Cheers

shakes
02-15-2005, 10:07 AM
that's really impressive and inspiring. great trex too! congrats

joel3d
02-15-2005, 05:40 PM
Oops! almost missed another great Dinosaur! I wish we had a Dino forum, Geesh!

AWsome start! I agree that the feet dont look right yet, but Im sure youll get it. Next time can we see more of a side veiw. please?

bobzilla
02-15-2005, 06:07 PM
Yeah. I agree dino forum.

This is pushing me to get out another animation of mine.

I gotta say again, that wind deforner idea is a stroke of genius. I would have never thought of that.

I'm having some technical difficulties, but as soon as that's cleared I'm going to give that a try with mine.

Cactus Dan
02-15-2005, 06:45 PM
Howdy,

Wow! Very nice work. :bounce:

I almost missed out on this one, too (was busy yesterday). I'm glad I caught it before it moved to the next page.

Adios,
Cactus Dan

joel3d
02-15-2005, 07:38 PM
gŁnter

I had another look at your animation, and I must say that it is a very good beginning. If I may suggest, I think that you could keep more balanced as he shifts his weight from right to left...And also there could be rotation and twist with his spine and pelvis. Heres an example of what I mean:
http://joel3d.com/JPG/T.Rex/FrontVeiw.gif
I found that the DVD of Jurassic Park III has some very good reference in the special features, especially the Spinosaurus walking in orthographic view.
Definitely check that out.

Oh, and speaking of Dinos, did you guys see THIS ONE? (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=210775)

Please keep it going! this is gonna be great. Joel

Cactus Dan
02-15-2005, 07:55 PM
Howdy,

joel3d: After seeing that bone animation, I'll never be able to go to the museum of natural history again, for fear that they might come alive like that. :D Nice movement.

Adios,
Cactus Dan

bobtronic
02-15-2005, 08:03 PM
definitely one cool TRex :thumbsup: Nothing to add to the already mentioned crits.

Joel is there a sideview of this dinowalk on the DVD?


Bob

bobzilla
02-15-2005, 08:23 PM
Actually the DVD has some really good references for the Spino, T-rex, and Veloceraptor.

The spino and Velociraptor have so much secondary movement going on, it's pretty incredible.

I guess that's why they're ILM and I'm in my basement... :shrug:

joel3d
02-15-2005, 09:06 PM
Joel is there a sideview of this dinowalk on the DVD?


Bob

I wish...Ha Ha! No this is my T.Rex, but if you want Ill make one.

Theropoda
02-15-2005, 09:19 PM
thanks for the replies, and thanks for that cool bone dino!

As a dino fan :), of course i have got the JP3 DVD, and I've been watching the scene with the spino in all views really, really often. Oh my god, I wish one day i could achieve this quality of animation!

@ joel: the spine and the hips are already rotating. maybe, i'll make it a bit stronger.
that bone dino is your's? wohooo! that's awesome motion! really, really nice animation! all done in cinema?

@ cactus:
I almost missed out on this one, too (was busy yesterday).

A girl? Or even the 9.1 update? :thumbsup:

Thanks again for your positive responses and the suggestions. A great community!

bobtronic
02-15-2005, 09:32 PM
I wish...Ha Ha! No this is my T.Rex, but if you want Ill make one.

oh yes, please, and thats really a nice walkcycle.

Bob

joel3d
02-15-2005, 10:13 PM
Oh my god, I wish one day i could achieve this quality of animation!

@ joel: the spine and the hips are already rotating. maybe, i'll make it a bit stronger.
that bone dino is your's? wohooo! that's awesome motion! really, really nice animation! all done in cinema?

Totally! Me too. That has been a goal for awhile now.

I am sure you'll get there. Oh yeah, I am using Maya but I really dont think it matters too much what software you use.

I actually began seriously to study Dinosaurs last year, But I have loved them ever since I can remember. The skeleton was my pet project that evolved way beyond what I thought I'd do originally. (=Just a skull)
I have done many re-visions on the skeleton, rebuilt the rig several times, I am still revising the skin, and textures. Eventually it would be great to get to composite it onto live footage. Sometimes I wonder if it will ever get done.

And yeah! GREAT COMMUNITY!

Theropoda
02-15-2005, 10:40 PM
hey joel,

I've done a quick forum search and have found your anatomy study of the t-rex. very impressive! unfortunately, there is no muscle-plug-in for cinema at the moment, but I think for the final animation it doesn't matter that much. but for subtile movements under the skin it would be fine...
but, before thinking of that, the motion of the whole animal is the most important. and i agree with you in saying that the app doesn't matter. it's just a matter of preference, i think!

well, i've been interested in dinosaurs since i was five. and now i'm twenty, and i'm still interested in those fantastic animals (i've dealt with their genealogical tree and the relationships between them a few years ago for my final exams at school).

so, keep on that good work,

stay animated
gŁnter

joel3d
02-19-2005, 12:28 AM
Actually using the muscle rig has its downsides...I almost would rather just place a few extra bones adjust the weighting and be done with it.

Heres another veiw:Skin side veiw (http://www.joel3d.com/Movies/SkinLayer.mov)
And the bones:Skeleton side veiw (http://www.joel3d.com/Movies/BoneLayer.mov)
And the muscle rigging: Muscle side veiw (http://www.joel3d.com/Movies/MuscleLayer.mov)

bobzilla
02-19-2005, 04:05 AM
Pretty cool, Joel! Are those feathers I see??

I was always after the whole muscle rig thing, but to me, the jiggle sells the size of these beasts.

I've also had the dino bug since I was a kid. Always a big Harryhausen fan, too. (Just got the Valley of Gwangi on DVD...not the best movie in general, but some fantastic animation. Especially the roping sequence.)

Any ideas on a color scheme? Since they still seem to be pushing the scavenger idea, I see a lot of vulture-like coloring...reddish head and dark body.

Keep us posted!

Kuroyume0161
02-19-2005, 05:01 AM
Any ideas on a color scheme? Since they still seem to be pushing the scavenger idea, I see a lot of vulture-like coloring...reddish head and dark body.

Although there is a hypothesis concerning the T-Rex as scavenger idea, beyond that there is nothing that can really be known about dinosaurian colorations. I did extensive research on the topic and there are no means whatsoever to indicate colorations. They have discovered plates, scale and feathers/proto-feather textures imprinted in fossils which help to determine epidermiology and other external features. But fossils leave no record of coloration. Only a very well preserved frozen specimen might provide that and, as we know, theirs was hardly an environment conducive to freeze-dried preservation.

The problem is that coloration isn't solely based on 'chameleon' matching within the environment. It can be based on heredity (despite environs), sexual attraction, mimicking, and a myriad other causations. Until someone actually finds a fully preserved Dino-DNA (highly unlikely) and gestates one or we develop time travel, your guess is as good as anyone elses - even highly-respected PhD Paleontologists! :)

Theropoda
02-19-2005, 10:00 AM
i think the best way to choose skin coloration of a dinosaur is to guess the behaviour of the dinosaur species in its environment, and then trying to find a recent animal living in a similar situation.

in the case of trex, we have to ask if it was a scavenger or a chaser (there have been many discussions about that). Jack Horner says that an analysis of its brain showed that the area for smelling was highly developed, and his legs were not built for fast running, because of the length of its thigh.

other palaeontologists say that this depends on the amount of muscles, which can not be figured out easily. there are many other arguments on both sides, but what i prefer today is the hyaena hypothesis:
when he had the chance to hunt, he hunted and had fresh meat, but he mainly was a scavenger.

the next thing we have to look at is its environment, which, i think, was quite dry.

so i have chosen a brownish coloration, with some pattern, like hyaenas and other carnivores have, and maybe a brighter stomach, which many reptiles have.

but, as kuroyume said, that's just guess. i'm afraid we'll never get the whole truth of these animals, and that's what i like so much about dinosaurs: there's always a bit space for your own imagination.

gŁnter

joel3d
02-19-2005, 05:47 PM
Pretty cool, Joel! Are those feathers I see??....
Any ideas on a color scheme? Since they still seem to be pushing the scavenger idea, I see a lot of vulture-like coloring...reddish head and dark body.
Keep us posted!

Yes, I would like to go with the Feathered/Proto look. And I am kinda thinkin vulture-like coloration...Bloody and stinky...I read that one of T.Rexs relatives, Tarbosaurus had a fold of skin under its jaw, like a waddle for holding big chunks of meat. This can indicate atleast a possiblity that they could have had some bright colors if compared to some modern day animals/reptiles...(Repoted by Kenneth Carpenter 1997)...Bright colors could be used for attracting mates or intimidating territorial rivals.

in the case of trex, we have to ask if it was a scavenger or a chaser (there have been many discussions about that). Jack Horner says that an analysis of its brain showed that the area for smelling was highly developed, and his legs were not built for fast running, because of the length of its thigh.

other palaeontologists say that this depends on the amount of muscles, which can not be figured out easily. there are many other arguments on both sides, but what i prefer today is the hyaena hypothesis:
when he had the chance to hunt, he hunted and had fresh meat, but he mainly was a scavenger.

I agree they had powerful sence of smell, and binocular vision. Hunted and lived in packs...Ha! Ha! Like Hyenas. The younger ones were alot faster.
-In 1999, Bakker excavated the first nearly complete juvenile T. rex skeleton, a discovery that added weight to the idea that the younger animals were fierce predators in their own right. The juvenile T. rex, nicknamed Tinker, had teeth about the same size of those in a full-grown adult. On the other hand, though Tinker was about two-thirds the length of an adult when it died, its bones were relatively slender, suggesting that the young dinosaur was only about one-fifth the weight of a full-grown T. rex. Thus, Tinker must have been a lean, fast, and deadly predator--a perfect member of a pack of T. rex hunters.


Well this can go on for days...Here is the article I am refering to. (http://www2.worldbook.com/wc/popup?path=features/dinosaurs&page=html/trex.htm&direct=yes)

the next thing we have to look at is its environment, which, i think, was quite dry.

I think it was more semi-tropical...

bobzilla
02-19-2005, 06:07 PM
There was also a special on the Discovery channel that showed how a family of predators (in this case, Daspletosaurs...another T-rex relative) may have been involved in a hunt. Pretty interesting how the juviniles would chase the prey to an area where the larger adults were waiting to pounce.

Also, makes it possible for large predators, live tyrannosaurids to be "hunters" without exerting themselves too much.

Bakker has also found what looks like an allosaur lair. Can't find much new info on that though, where it appears the adults dragged food back to a lair for all to consume.

My original intention with my dinosaurs (which may be a bit ambitious) was to recreate the Cleveland-Lloyd dinosaur park area as it was during the late Jurassic. But, again, not a lot of info on the flora of the area, just the animals (mostly allosaurs, some ceratosaurs, stokeosaurs, stegosaurs, and a variety of sauropods)

We really need to start our own forum!

joel3d
02-19-2005, 07:35 PM
We really need to start our own forum!

Ahh yes, Dinosaur forum. I dont think they'd go for it...Cause then there would have to be a ........ forum too.

*Sorry!

Seriously, I like the idea but so far it seems to be here.

Unfortunatly, I think many people will miss it because its inside an application specific forum.

joel3d
02-19-2005, 08:26 PM
Here is website about a T.Rex, called WyRex the most recently discovered.

T.Rex forum (http://forum.unearthingtrex.com/)

A really interesting place to just look around. And You can have questions answered by guest paleontologists.

bobzilla
02-19-2005, 08:39 PM
Cool, Joel. Thanks very much.

Siddhy
02-20-2005, 08:38 AM
Too bad its focused on the T.Rex only. What about the others?
Although the T.Rex is really impressive i'd love to see more on the other guys, too.

joel3d
02-20-2005, 04:02 PM
I havent seen any others like it, but that would be a good question to ask them.

Oh and BTW if you sign on be sure to use the proper abriviation (T.Rex: thats a letter T then a period followed by Rex, Not T-Rex, or TRex etc.
For some reason It bugs some of them.

bobzilla
02-20-2005, 04:46 PM
Technically, it should be T. rex, no? It's one of the few dinosaurs know by both genus and species.

joel3d
02-20-2005, 05:13 PM
Technically, it should be T. rex, no? It's one of the few dinosaurs know by both genus and species.

Oops! Your right.

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