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View Full Version : Animation Mentor opens its doors!


SheepFactory
02-12-2005, 03:31 AM
The day we all have been waiting for is finally here folks:

http://www.animationmentor.com/newsletter/AMonlineNewsletter_4.XX1.html

bcairns
02-12-2005, 03:37 AM
Cool! It sounds like this is going to be a lot of fun. I wish I had the time/money to participate in it http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/cry.gif.

clockwerkz
02-12-2005, 03:45 AM
What, one thread wasn't enough?? We're going to create another 100+ page thread?? HEHEHEHE

Get a load of the .pdf attachment on the newsletter. That reflects what serious work these guys put into it. Any thoughts of whether this took too much time or not should be quickly dispelled by just reading the .pdf. Very professional and structured. I can't wait for my first day of school. :-D

cW

My Fault
02-12-2005, 04:40 AM
Wow, should be an exciting few weeks in anticipation of getting in.

So any plans for any Bay Area Animation Mentor students get togethers...assuming getting in that is?

daraand
02-12-2005, 05:04 AM
How awesome! I got the email as I got home and I just finished combing through the catalog. Excellent stuff. And for ~13,000 $ it honestly does not sound bad at all. Plus some extremely awesome ninjas to learn from! AHhh i feel like Beatrix Kiddo looking up at all those steps for the first time to meet Pai Mei..

It should be a blast. Good luck to all!

RobW720
02-12-2005, 05:47 AM
makes me wish I wasn't in financial chaos! Ah well, next year :-D

good luck to everyone doing it, lemme know how it goes!

kmest
02-12-2005, 06:05 AM
i hope i could join there but i cant,it must be realy GREAT,goodluck to everyone there :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Kimotion
02-12-2005, 06:39 AM
makes me wish I wasn't in financial chaos! Ah well, next year :-D

good luck to everyone doing it, lemme know how it goes!

A good way to ignore 'financial chaos' or make yourself think that you're not in 'financial chaos' is using Aunt Visa or Uncle MasterCard :thumbsup:

walker
02-12-2005, 07:31 AM
I can't wait for this now :bounce: I hope you don't have to be 18 before the registration date... but I will be 18 before the classes start

Para
02-12-2005, 08:03 AM
:love:
This will be great, shame I can't participate (I don't have the money nor time at the moment :shrug:).

judahHills
02-12-2005, 09:58 AM
:love:
This will be great, shame I can't participate (I don't have the money nor time at the moment :shrug:).

Newbie here, but not necessarily new to the scene of 3d. My good friend works in the industry and I've learned a lot so far from him on what I hope to do, work as a 3d artist. He went to school for 4 years at an accredited college with a focus in animation, but couldnt find a job for a while. It was ultimatly his well rounded drawing and 3d skills he got from school and his 'bachelor degree or equivilent'... (plus being good at animation of course), that got him a starter job and it went from there. Anyhow, I think this is a really interesting and possibly prosperous concept, this online school thing, But dont you think it's a little pricy for the total lack of true one on one communication, the building blocks of this acting and life experience driven field? You can go to already accredited schools with people who have been working in feature animation for as long or longer, AND pay 500$+ dollars less per class, AND get a BA. I'll pass for quite sometime until I hear it is worth the money, or until a get a job in this field first and use it to strengthen my skills. Speaking of money, for the love of god and all thats holy, dont go putting yourself into credit card debt at these types of prices. Before you know it that 13000 grand will be 17000, and playing catchup with that. Lets just say its not out of the question that this tuition could end up at 25000-30000 by the time you pay it off. I know from a smaller experience with that devil plastic. And what's worse is that IF you get a job right away then it could be worth it, but more likely than not you'll be working your ass off at something unrealated to just character animation, and you won't have time to practice and get better at your art!! I think one thing that would make this prospect a little more appealing is some type of government finanical aid, where there is some type of governing to the interest and billing. Do they have any of that?

Adriano-Zanetti
02-12-2005, 10:56 AM
14, 000$ !! ... i'm in shock! ...I was dreaming til now that it would be affordable... that for once I could offer myself the time and financial investment to get some serious education to follow my passion for 3D and Animation... Bummer, that number I can't even count up to is a big downer.

I wonder how many of all the members who keep CGTalk alive are able to afford such investment... how many of them especially who're not already working in the industry... those who're really concerned... the wannabees and students ? ...

Anyway, I won't starve my 2 kids to get classes,

...man... 14, 000!?

pe@ce

hrgiger
02-12-2005, 10:57 AM
A good way to ignore 'financial chaos' or make yourself think that you're not in 'financial chaos' is using Aunt Visa or Uncle MasterCard :thumbsup:

Exactly the kind of moronic thinking that spawns financial chaos.

CGmonkey
02-12-2005, 10:57 AM
This will be an interesting expirment to watch.

DanMarionette
02-12-2005, 11:08 AM
I had a quick look at the intro to the .pdf, but then sadly skipped to the end to check out the fee. Although I think them to be resonable prices, its still far out of my range at the moment.
I felt really gutted that I wouldn't be able to join. I've been keeping my eye on this since day one. After doing a degree in computer animation and finding it to be no use at all in tightening my animation skills, i'm always looking for ways to better myself in animation. Then rational thinking kicked in and I felt much better. This is the first of its kind! All the people who we look up to and aspire to, had to learn and practise there skills in other ways. Just like judahHills said, you can take part in other animation courses. Also there are plenty of books out there. I admit most are not great, but there are amazing books like 'The Animator's Survival Kit', and 'The Illusion of Life'. It may not be one on one training but all the fundimentals of animation are in these books. And I'm sure that even in Animation Mentor your skills will be developed most in all the extra practise time you put in between classes.
What am I trying to say?! I'm trying to say that Animation Mentor is great, I know I'd love to take part! But for all the people who now know they can't afford , like myself, and to all the people who do try for a place and don't manage to get one, all is not lost! It is still possible to get the jobs you want, its still possible to create great work that will be remembered, to become the great animator you want to be.
As said by Animation Mentor, practise, perseverance and personality! They are right! They can't teach you that!

Dan

stewartjones
02-12-2005, 11:23 AM
I JUST SAW THIS THREAD!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


My stomach is killing me, am excited, like it's Christmas when your 5 years old! :scream:

... Gotta get booze to calm down!

Novak
02-12-2005, 01:38 PM
Mhh, got a little problem, i can`t open the acrobat file. i always get a error. and i have acrobat 5. does anyone know how to open it?

Thanks, Novak

RobW720
02-12-2005, 01:41 PM
aunt visa and uncle master card are busy paying for the animation school im already trying to get :-)

but no, i hope to do this maybe a year down the road, i graduate in septemeber from my school. maybe get out, work a bit, see how that goes. save up some money and hop back into school :-)

to thoes of you who think its way to expensive... well it isnt cheap, but its a whole lot less than most art schools I have seen, and its focused. many of the animation schools around turn you into a prety good generalist, but if you want to focus on animation you have to do a lot of it on your own anyway.

in other news, i need to win the lotto or something, heh.

rhino23
02-12-2005, 01:46 PM
Woo Hoo! I've been saving my pennies, hopefully I have enough... They are only taking 300 students though, so best of luck to all in getting in. I'm writing and re-writing my admissions essay already. Hope to see some of you in class next month! http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/buttrock.gif

clockwerkz
02-12-2005, 02:24 PM
You can go to already accredited schools with people who have been working in feature animation for as long or longer, AND pay 500$+ dollars less per class, AND get a BA. I'll pass for quite sometime until I hear it is worth the money, or until a get a job in this field first and use it to strengthen my skills. Speaking of money, for the love of god and all thats holy, dont go putting yourself into credit card debt at these types of prices. Before you know it that 13000 grand will be 17000, and playing catchup with that. Lets just say its not out of the question that this tuition could end up at 25000-30000 by the time you pay it off.

Suddenly numbers come up, and the issue of financial responsibility becomes a factor. First off, I think what you're by looking out for people so they don't make a monetary mistake is noble. so my hat is off to you. But I have a question..what school do u know of that is accredited, being taught by industry professionals, and is 500 less than AM? Plus, what school do you know of will garantee you a job in the field? Before I go any further, I'm NOT saying AM will garantee you one. They can't. There isn't a school that can. I don't live near a school, and for me, financial ruin would be leaving my current job to transfer my family to a new city, and somehow depend on 1 salary while I go to school fulltime. Me? I spent 10 grand on 2 semesters at a local public university and it quite frankly was a waste of time. So to me, I'll gladly pay for AM because there is little risk for me. And I think it's a solid investment.

cW

Ibah
02-12-2005, 02:33 PM
when i have some money saved, and finished my current study , i will surely seriously think about doing this.

neiy0
02-12-2005, 02:39 PM
is animation mentor free, or do you have to pay..?

Ibah
02-12-2005, 02:41 PM
you have toi pay, but i think its worth your money bigtime!

daraand
02-12-2005, 02:45 PM
I can't afford it. I honestly don't have any money. So Aunt Visa, Uncle Mastercard or maybe Grandma Sallie Mae (yeay student loans!) might be my only choice. BUt you know what? It still is worth it

I did price comparisons to my college and other similiar programs in animation - and when you think about it (based off what I've read and heard comparing it to CalArts) it really IS worth it. I pay (thank you scholarships!) 17,000$ every semster to my local university for a 4 year BFA. Ringling is roughly a bit higher. CalArts for out of state hits almost 30,000 because of living expenses and such. I know Gnomon itself isn't cheap (but well worth it I've heard). So while 14,000 does seem like a lot... Put it in perspective

For almost a year and more you study animation and come out A) with some pretty good knowledge B) with a shrot film if you go that far and C) a few new friends! Be it mentors or other students as well.


I think its worth it. But 14,000 clean is still a big chunk of $ :\

mattmos
02-12-2005, 03:57 PM
Certainly a bigger chunk than I was expecting, but well worth it I'm sure. REALLY excited about this :bounce::bounce::bounce:

opus13
02-12-2005, 04:03 PM
I pay (thank you scholarships!) 17,000$ every semster to my local university for a 4 year BFA.

14k a semester. i think you might mean 14k a year, which is completely acceptable. also, the other schools you are quoting have financial packages that include your supplies an housing. its not 'just the classes' that those prices are covering.

i have done online courses for college before, and have been sorely dissappointed. the lack of involvement between students and teachers is the biggest stumbling block. i would really like to see how AM can make this (what amounts to a $14,000 website) worth paying.

Bentagon
02-12-2005, 04:06 PM
Not even $14,000 a year... it's $14,000 for the complete course, so one year and a half.
It's incredibly cheap compared to certain schools.

- Benjamin

animboom
02-12-2005, 04:52 PM
I did price comparisons to my college and other similiar programs in animation - and when you think about it (based off what I've read and heard comparing it to CalArts) it really IS worth it. I pay (thank you scholarships!) 17,000$ every semster to my local university for a 4 year BFA. Ringling is roughly a bit higher. CalArts for out of state hits almost 30,000 because of living expenses and such. I know Gnomon itself isn't cheap (but well worth it I've heard). So while 14,000 does seem like a lot... Put it in perspective

Hey, Folks. Bobby Beck here from AnimationMentor.com. I guess we're moving the thread over to here now. :) We understand that some people will have difficulty with the pricing, as that is to be expected. AgentJ pretty much explains things well above...

For those who have been asking, I will break things down a bit:

1. Classes/Assignments (yes, each with a Class "key points" breakdown list) that students can view several times unlike a traditional school where you get the class once. Some classes have us going through the whole process of a shot from A-Z which just can not happen in a traditional school due to time constraints.
2. Forum is filled with professional animators and chracter riggers to answer student questions (a lot like other forums, however we have people who are strictly dedicated to doing this specific task).
3. Video/audio feedback from your mentor of your work that can be viewed by everyone in the school, so you can learn from others mistakes and successes!!!
4. Live Web conferencing with your mentor and fellow classmates for 40 minutes+ per week. (each mentor has 25 students)

Shawn, Carlos and myself have taught in traditional schools before and what we've found is in a 3 hour class per week that we spend about 2 1/2 to 3 hours doing critiques (of about 30+ students) and this never gives enough time for instruction. When we designed AnimationMentor.com we designed it to think through the "problems" we had in our teaching experiences and thought long and hard about how to make it better.

Yes, we have Lectures/Classes on facical animation (as was asked on the other AM thread). But more importantly we feel AnimationMentor.com will give someone the education they need to get started in the professional arena. But, as any animator will tell you... Animation is a lifelong study and search for getting better.
-BOOM

Kimotion
02-12-2005, 04:56 PM
Exactly the kind of moronic thinking that spawns financial chaos.

It always shocks me at how some people can't get a joke.

But seriously, any passionate endeavor is worth the educational nvestment, and if you're passionate about something, risk is always a necessity. That plastic card is not always evil if you actually use it responsibly (and yes! there ARE people who can do that).

There are always resources out there if you actually look hard enough. There are family, loans (maybe not financial aid for the college kinda thing), savings, etc.

I know of some people who started their own companies and yes, they lived on credit cards just to get off the ground (one acutually had 6). It would take years to pay them off, but any successful person thinks long-term.

So, which is better: (1.) sitting on your @ss 3 years later in your cubicle job wishing you spent that time pursuing your real passion (while by now you would've paid off your credit card 'investment') or (2.) sitting on your @ss 3 years later in your cubicle, just got off participating in animation dailies, thinking how you've now almost paid off all your credit card debt and wondering how you would've kicked yourself if you hadn't pursued this 3 years ago.

victor throe
02-12-2005, 05:03 PM
its simple maths


in the UK you are looking at spending 2K per year on fees. then put living expenses on top of that. if we are reallllly generous and say you can live on 4K(thats rent and food...which you certainly cannot), a three year course is still going to cost you 18KGBP approx 30KUSD(very generous estimate)

after doing the degree you will have good chances of seeking/gaining employment at the low end of the market(no experience).

now, do the animation mentor course and you spend 2.5k on the first module. if you dont pass it, you are down 2.5k. if you get an A there is a really good chance you are going to get snapped up with employment at a top studio when you finish the rest....in 2 years. remember who you are working with. not only are you paying for industry specific education, but you are also paying for contacts. and anyone in the industry will tell you the biggest battle is making contacts and alot of employment goes down to 'who you know'. its an absolute steal at 14kUSD, even if you are already a seasoned animator. if you want to break into the big studios, this is the way to do it.

and feck me, people from countries with a strong currency at the moment(like the UK) are crazy to bitch about the price

i personally cannot afford anywhere near this sum(mortgage and more mortgage) and my only hope is to convince my current employers that it is a good investment to put me on it. if that fails, animation mentor can expect a drooly nose print up against their window for years...

good luck animation mentor!

and kiss my butt to anyone who is successfully enrolled on the first session. im damned jealous!!

jipe
02-12-2005, 05:52 PM
While I don't plan on thinking about AM for a few years until I graduate from college, and I think the prices are damn reasonable compared to what you pay for an actual university (and considering the sheer amount of knowledge that AM offers), I am a little worried by one page in the catalog: apparently for the start of the 3rd session (the fall one), the prices are raised to $2200 and $2700 for the first four courses and the last two short film courses, respectively. Raising prices six months in seems a little early to me.. what will it be like in a couple of years?

bentllama
02-12-2005, 06:28 PM
i do not think the price is unreasonable. most weekly conferences are equal to that cost.

i am looking foward to it.

RayenD
02-12-2005, 06:29 PM
if you get an A there is a really good chance you are going to get snapped up with employment at a top studio when you finish the rest....in 2 years. remember who you are working with. not only are you paying for industry specific education, but you are also paying for contacts. and anyone in the industry will tell you the biggest battle is making contacts and alot of employment goes down to 'who you know'. its an absolute steal at 14kUSD, even if you are already a seasoned animator. if you want to break into the big studios, this is the way to do it.

I agree with most of your post I (strongly) don't think above is true.

Especially this:

if you get an A there is a really good chance you are going to get snapped up with employment at a top studio when you finish the rest....in 2 years

You forget about experience in real world production (which is something completely different than completing assigments in school, even from making a short at home, but you know this already) and many ex Disney etc. animators who are on the market, not to mention Ringling, CalArts and other comparable schools graduates.

but you are also paying for contacts

Forgive me but above is statement is just plain wrong and thinking like that is path which leads to nowhere. This is my personal opinion. Contacts are good and will help a lot, but paying for contacts.. well.. we are not lawyers.
Yes, probably there will be a chance, but I'd not expect miracles. 18 months online course, even with the best teachers out there won't make you top, experienced animator, well, there is good chance it won't. Thinking like this IMO is lack of respect for art of animation.

It will give you "super strong" (to quote Bobby) foundation in art of animation. I'd be very lucky and treat it as a bonus if someone from students or (most unlikely, just because they are busy) mentors would consider my person attractive (can't find better word explaining a mixture of being good and nice and sharing the same values) enough to call me first when they have a vacancy at XXX animation studio. But what I'll learn from them will always remain in my head and that KNOWLEDGE is what you pay for and what I count to pay for.

Nothing else I expect.

All right, enough ranting :)

RayenD
02-12-2005, 06:35 PM
Bentlama, you think you will be able to make a short in 6 months while working on HALO 3 or something else? Don't get me wrong - I am not sarcastic or something, I am just in similar situation (working, games, commercials and what not) and I am scared that I might be 4 weeks before gold master while making this short? :eek:

Just finished a small personal animation project and it wasn't easy on me and my family..

Quit a job or call sick? ;)

judahHills
02-12-2005, 07:23 PM
Very interesting debates over these courses. To add a positive note, these guys have worked with and are the top guys in the industry and probably have a bunch of knowledge to share. About making industry contacts though. Do you think it's realistic that you can make strong contacts over the computer through these classes, weeding through all the other people on this totally impersonal 'online'? I can imagine that animation mentor probably wants to at least put one of their students into a good job through people they know, so they can say "see, someone went right into the field from our classes...SIGN UP!" It's a huge toss up though, because you aren't going to get anything done just sitting there. If you go to a school like Academy of Art University, you WILL make contacts with real people in person (in beautiful SF), you will be drawing, storyboarding, and animating under industry professionals, and after hard work will get into places like Blue Sky, Dreamworks, ILM, and a track record of others. Oh, and you will have a BA to get you elsewhere if all else fails. If there was more time and money in life, AM would be a great addition to ones skills I think. Or, if they offered the lectures and notes in DVD and book form for 1/20th the price.

fluffybunny
02-12-2005, 07:44 PM
I agree with most of your post I (strongly) don't think above is true.

Especially this:

if you get an A there is a really good chance you are going to get snapped up with employment at a top studio when you finish the rest....in 2 years

You forget about experience in real world production (which is something completely different than completing assigments in school, even from making a short at home, but you know this already) and many ex Disney etc. animators who are on the market, not to mention Ringling, CalArts and other comparable schools graduates.


I definitely agree as well, having seen so much myself what the difference between engineers with real work experience and new grads. I've been part of the hiring process before where I work and thankfully I don't have to go through that agony at the moment.

The one thing I would counter with is that by looking at the last two sessions, you can see how much they are trying to emphasize actual work type scenarios/flow. I am reading from it that their expectation is for someone finishing this course on a high note to be ready to work as somewhat more than a beginning animator. The "instruction time" alone for the last two sessions is 20hours/week...I'll bet most will put in another 40 of their own....sounds like work to me.

.....and then there'e my theory of...."why make a good AM graduate move from wherever he/she is now?"....if they've done everything they need to for work at their own computer....just give them real work. (*pipelines be damned* ;) )


eric

PaulNBurns
02-12-2005, 09:20 PM
Please don't go into massive credit card debt! Are you crazy! Romantic dreams of sacrificing all, struggling to become a great artist, only recognized after your 50,000 in debt and on the verge of blowing your brains out...


You are better off getting a 40 hour a week job, splitting an apartment with some like minded friends, and learning all the basics and intermediate stuff with training cd's and dvd's for 2 to 3 hrs a night. The number one thing you need besides talent is the DRIVE to learn. If you can't push yourself then find an internet weekly session group.

I not saying good education isn't worth spending money on. You just don't want to go through the first half of your life pulling yourself out of credit card debt.

Insomniation
02-12-2005, 09:28 PM
I'm already taking out loans that are paying for my $35,000 computer animation school, otherwise I'd do this in a heartbeat :sad:

Maplewood54
02-12-2005, 10:40 PM
Wow, good discussion forum here. A couple of thoughts:

It is naive to think that enrolling and completing this course will nearly guarantee a job. It is not naive, however, to think that by completeing a year and a half "college course", under the tutelege of some of the most seasoned animators of our generation (25 -35 year olds), that you would not be the wiser. In fact, it is almost worth the payment alone just to get input about what you are currently doing that could use work. It isn't the talent, or possible lack there of issue that makes me nervous, nor is it a foot-in-the-door issue. It's the understanding that I don't know what I don't know. And without the personal, one-on-one feedback of other seasoned artists, no single artist is ever going to improve to a level that is outside of himself or his own innate ability. That's one of the greatest assets about all art schools. Great artists bring out the greatness in other artists and sometimes that is the only way to achieve the level of professionalism that makes good animators great animators.

Also, money is hard to come by for tons of folks. But that's money. Understandably, for the guys that barely get by now who have families and other commitments, it is a shame that their schedule will not dictate the time needed to place their all into this program. But for everyone else who finds that in order to do this requires some sacrifice outside of basic life giving resources, which is the group I'm in, then I feel that there is NO WAY I will look back on my life in 10 years and say that I didn't drive and sacrifice to find the resources to do the program that would have brought my skill level in animation up to a point where I could seriously work in this medium professionally. It isn't about what you know, because what you know is what you create now. For me, it's about what I don't know, or what I'm just not seeing.

Hats off to the AM guys. http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

Hexodam
02-13-2005, 01:53 AM
Its just awsome to see how well this has progressed and it shows so much promise.

But for me and probably just about everyone outside of the US the prices are just ridicilously high if you take the whole thing! :eek: I mean for me to go to one year in Bournemouth by being outside of the EU costs about the same, if I were inside the EU I could go 8 years in Bournemouth for the price of one term in AM.

Highly doubt many from Europe will sign up for this, but who knows it could happen, this is extremely promising after all. Wish all those who are behind animation mentor the best of luck.

falclor
02-13-2005, 02:12 AM
I am pretty sure AM would be WAY better in SO many areas of animation than lets say... an Art Institute. How many of us were sucked into that only to see your teacher learning a tutorial before class, only to turn around and teach you the same tutorial. How much do you pay for classes in those schools to basically turn around and learn from your friends after graduation that got jobs before you. These guys at AM I am sure will teach you in one month what a 2 and a 4 year could not begin to teach ever..! Sure 13,000.00 is quite a bit, but if I could I would...

-dc-
02-13-2005, 03:55 AM
I am very interested in signing up, but I have a couple concerns. The FAQ mentions they will look into financial aid. Does anyone know the results of that? Also, can this be a FULL tax write off? If so, then financial aid is not an issue. I think the price is more than fair...

The only issue I forsee is that not all talented artists are necessarily talented teachers. Some are gifted at teaching, like Alex Alvarez, and others are ok, and some just aren't really qualified. I've worked with many talented animators that I wouldn't neccesarily want teaching me. I hope that the mentor selection process was at least somewhat selective. That's my only other concern at this point really.

I would suggest, like others, to avoid the credit cards if possible. Find another way, any other way, just make it happen!!

I'm glad they're gearing up to go. I'll probably sit the first round out and wait for feedback, but I'm very excited about the possibitilies! :D

SheepFactory
02-13-2005, 03:58 AM
so much credit card hate. No do not avoid credit cards if you plan to build a good credit history , just be responsible. paying animation mentor off with cash wont do you any good , paying it with a credit card will increase your credit rating which will help you down the road , just make sure you pay the balance on time and do not spend more than you'll be able to pay.

PaulNBurns
02-13-2005, 04:38 AM
I don't want to go off on a tangent....but dude you can build good credit with a 2000 USD limit card and paying off all you owe every month. You can build credit by signing up for a second card, say discover, and then put it in a draw and never ever use it. There is good debt like a mortgage and there is bad debt like heavy credit card debt.

I would loan the money some other way or sit out and save for a couple of years.

Anyways, the program sounds really cool and if I was younger and without a family to support I would definitely be checking it out. Being in a course, having a mentor, etc. totally makes you more productive. Good luck to all who take part.

SheepFactory
02-13-2005, 04:41 AM
I don't want to go off on a tangent....but dude you can build good credit with a 2000 USD limit card and paying off all you owe every month.


which is what i meant.

BlueSamurai
02-13-2005, 06:35 AM
Wow this is a very good oportunity. My only question is the next time I could send an aplication August 12?

Kimotion
02-13-2005, 06:44 AM
Does anyone know what time they will open? Like 6am EST? I'm in CA so please don't let it be 3am PST! I must sound so lazy...yet so obsessed.

doggpound
02-13-2005, 09:11 AM
I checked out and read through the pdf that Animation Mentor sent out, and I've read most of the posts here on the site. My 2 cents on the subject. Number one, it seems that some (and I stress SOME) of these posts are totally planted to say positive things about these classes to hype it up. You can tell by some of the way its worded and whom/location/others they are posted from. Furthermore, there has been talk on more than one occasion of using a credit card..., um I mean, getting yourself in major credit card debt to pay for the classes. Almost like it's being promoted. This is very, very wrong. I think I recollect one of the mentors advising this, although I could be wrong. The higher your debt, the more the card companies will pour on the interest, it's a fact. Do the math and don't be dumb enough to pay for the school with credit cards. You don't build credit with big prices like that, you destroy it. Oh yea, and if you are a high school grad, or even just out of college going on your first credit card, it would be interesting to see if you are even eligible for a credit line that high. Highly unlikely with no previous credit, and you could very well be on your way to destroying that credit for life. Everyone knows this, and to promote these types of actions is extremely selfish and irresponsible.

I get this errie feeling that these guys are thinking 100% of themselves and the financial gain they will get, and arent' worried about the students at all. I can't explain it, but I feel this sense as if this is mostly about money. Speaking of which, finally, the prices. Now if this 'school', (if it even falls under the definition of), had been around and had a reputation, then maybe the prices are coming close to being half way reasonable. Now, if this were Frank and Olly starting classes online with life long experience and wisdom (definition of mentor) it would certainly be worth the money. I guess the next best thing to that would be some animation directors. Different strokes for differnet folks I guess, but for me and what I've learned I am not to excited about this until I either hear from the masses (not the planted voices), that this is an opportunity of a lifetime.

Anyhow, these are just my honest and unbaised opinions, and I'm in no way trying to harm anyone or anything, nor am I breaking anyone or any rules. I am all for the concept of this project, but I dont' want to see kids with big dreams end up getting spit out and left with a big mess to deal with.

doggpound
02-13-2005, 09:12 AM
Message doubled.

Bentagon
02-13-2005, 10:04 AM
I don't believe that matters much. You send your essay, and if they approve it, you do some tests, and if you succeed in those, THEN there's a first-come-first-serve service based on who pays first. Or that's how I interpret it all. I might be wrong though... maybe just mail to newsletter@animationmentor.com ?

Anyhoo, in the other thread it's said they will announce the hour on monday, since they're still working out whether to open in the timezone of their server, or the timezone of their office.

- Benjamin

mohinder
02-13-2005, 11:56 AM
Anyhoo, in the other thread it's said they will announce the hour on monday, since they're still working out whether to open in the timezone of their server, or the timezone of their office.

- Benjamin

Can you please post a link to the other thread.

Thankyou.

Bentagon
02-13-2005, 12:30 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1964898#post1964898

If you haven't read it already, you're up for a treat ;)

- Benjamin

mohinder
02-13-2005, 12:59 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1964898#post1964898

If you haven't read it already, you're up for a treat ;)

- Benjamin

Oh my Goodness!

I'll be here all week.

Thanks.

Adriano-Zanetti
02-13-2005, 01:05 PM
I'm repeating myself here... but 14,000$ is not acceptable... I was so excited too about Animation Mentor... I told my girl I wanted to maybe start studying again and follow the courses... that was while I was still downloading the catalog... when I finally got the price of it, I told her about it, she was shocked too. She went herself to the "best UC" (UC Utrecht) of the netherlands (..dunno if that is still true...but anyway, it was back then) and she had to pay 8000 a year... 3 years... 27,000$ (American UC are expensive), but it was inclusive of all expenses... we talking about all accomodations here, Room, 3 meals a day, computers, books, Sport's facilities, etc... For animation Master... 14, 000$ ?! for the name of the teatchers and "potential" contacts...?? ...am sorry, it's just not right.

pe@ce

stewartjones
02-13-2005, 01:13 PM
I'm repeating myself here... but 14,000$ is not acceptable... I was so excited too about Animation Mentor... I told my girl I wanted to maybe start studying again and follow the courses... that was while I was still downloading the catalog... when I finally got the price of it, I told her about it, she was shocked too. She went herself to the "best UC" (UC Utrecht) of the netherlands (..dunno if that is still true...but anyway, it was back then) and she had to pay 8000 a year... 3 years... 27,000$ (American UC are expensive), but it was inclusive of all expenses... we talking about all accomodations here, Room, 3 meals a day, computers, books, Sport's facilities, etc... For animation Master... 14, 000$ ?! for the name of the teatchers and "potential" contacts...?? ...am sorry, it's just not right.

pe@ce


I really have to disagree with you on this dude. Sure $14000 is expensive, but that's the price from the like of VFS etc (in fact, I think VFS is actually more for their 3D animation and vfx course). You have to look at the people who will be actually teaching this stuff. We are talking about people in the industry, creating the animation for the movies we all yell 'HOLY SH*T, how did that do that?'.

Plus, these guys don't have to do this. They are already working, and earning plenty enough. It really sucks if you can't afford it (I definately can't... Oh, how much debt I will be in if I'm accepted!), guess you will have to look elsewhere? In my opinion it will be worth every dollar.

-Stu

kaisasose
02-13-2005, 01:50 PM
14, 000$ !! ... i'm in shock! ...I was dreaming til now that it would be affordable... that for once I could offer myself the time and financial investment to get some serious education to follow my passion for 3D and Animation... Bummer, that number I can't even count up to is a big downer.

I wonder how many of all the members who keep CGTalk alive are able to afford such investment... how many of them especially who're not already working in the industry... those who're really concerned... the wannabees and students ? ...

Anyway, I won't starve my 2 kids to get classes,

...man... 14, 000!?

pe@ce


Thats a LOT of zeros's:eek:

Bentagon
02-13-2005, 01:51 PM
I'm repeating myself here... but 14,000$ is not acceptable... I was so excited too about Animation Mentor... I told my girl I wanted to maybe start studying again and follow the courses... that was while I was still downloading the catalog... when I finally got the price of it, I told her about it, she was shocked too. She went herself to the "best UC" (UC Utrecht) of the netherlands (..dunno if that is still true...but anyway, it was back then) and she had to pay 8000 a year... 3 years... 27,000$ (American UC are expensive), but it was inclusive of all expenses... we talking about all accomodations here, Room, 3 meals a day, computers, books, Sport's facilities, etc... For animation Master... 14, 000$ ?! for the name of the teatchers and "potential" contacts...?? ...am sorry, it's just not right.

pe@ceSure, you can go to school in Europe for even Ä500 (like here in my hometown), but I believe there's not a single course in Europe focusing on just character animation. If it's true what they say - and I believe it is - we will gain a lot more experience with this course then in a regular school. Like it's said in the interview here on cgnetworks, in a real class environement, the teacher just can't show you all this reference, pick out the absolute best examples possible or break down his own animation, or just animating and telling why they did this or that. It's so much more focused, and we'll learn so much more then in a regular European school. And I think every other focused, good character animation course on the planet costs more then this.

- Benjamin

victor throe
02-13-2005, 02:48 PM
im stunned so many people are bitching about the price. its a bargain.

and you are nuts if you think the contacts you make during the course is not worth the price alone.

i know many people, including myself, who have gained various jobs through forums just like this. and animation mentor looks to be more personal with video feeds and dedicated mentors.

whilst i never stated you are guarenteed a job, you can be sure that if you do exceptionally well on the course, you name will start floating around when tooling up starts.

if the course leads to the job of your dreams, 14k all of a sudden seems very cheap..

BlueSamurai
02-13-2005, 04:01 PM
I don't mean to sound rude to anyone, but if you don't wanna dish out the bucks, then don't complain. This has taken more work then any of us could imagine I am sure. 14k isn't that much for a good education these days...

joshmckenzie
02-13-2005, 04:08 PM
I think Animation Mentor's price is as reasonable as it could be. They have assembled a very experienced roster of teachers from leading animation and VFX companies. Anyone who's read the posts from the Animation Mentor people will have noted their drive and enthusiasm regarding the whole venture. They want it to be a success and they want their students to succeed.

As they say in their course catalogue they were driven by the notion that "if we were to start again, how would we want to learn?" To me, that signals a course that's really focused on giving students a thorough grounding in animation principles (and more).

The tutors have years of experience behind them and have no doubt managed to distill a great deal of that into the courses. Plus, what could be more useful than guidance or critique of your work through individual attention from noted experts in the field?

I know it's easy to get dejected, but to quote again from their catalogue, you need "practice, perseverance and personality" to be a successful animator and they can't teach you that. If AM is too expensive for you, but you're motivated to succeed you'll eagerly seek other avenues of learning be it through self-study or local college classes.

Bulldog
02-13-2005, 04:21 PM
I'm repeating myself here... but 14,000$ is not acceptable... I was so excited too about Animation Mentor... I told my girl I wanted to maybe start studying again and follow the courses... that was while I was still downloading the catalog... when I finally got the price of it, I told her about it, she was shocked too. She went herself to the "best UC" (UC Utrecht) of the netherlands (..dunno if that is still true...but anyway, it was back then) and she had to pay 8000 a year... 3 years... 27,000$ (American UC are expensive), but it was inclusive of all expenses... we talking about all accomodations here, Room, 3 meals a day, computers, books, Sport's facilities, etc... For animation Master... 14, 000$ ?! for the name of the teatchers and "potential" contacts...?? ...am sorry, it's just not right.

pe@ce



Out of curiosity , how much do you think they should charge?

davijin
02-13-2005, 05:29 PM
I'm repeating myself here... but 14,000$ is not acceptable... I was so excited too about Animation Mentor... I told my girl I wanted to maybe start studying again and follow the courses... that was while I was still downloading the catalog... when I finally got the price of it, I told her about it, she was shocked too. She went herself to the "best UC" (UC Utrecht) of the netherlands (..dunno if that is still true...but anyway, it was back then) and she had to pay 8000 a year... 3 years... 27,000$ (American UC are expensive), but it was inclusive of all expenses... we talking about all accomodations here, Room, 3 meals a day, computers, books, Sport's facilities, etc... For animation Master... 14, 000$ ?! for the name of the teatchers and "potential" contacts...?? ...am sorry, it's just not right.

pe@ce

Na, here in america your paying at least $10,000 a year for State Universities(they get governement funding) and at least $20,000 per year for Private Universities. Thats not including housing and other expenses. $14,000 is a very reasonable price for learning animation, especially from guys who are established in the industry as great animators like the teachers at animation mentor. I doubt there's too many places that you can go and learn from animators of this caliber. And like stated above if you were to just take a 2 week masterclass you would spend more than you would on animation mentor and probably learn and absorb less knowledge than you would going through animation mentor. I wish I had enough money to go there but I got my regular school to pay for. hopefully it will be here for a while so I can take some classes at Animation mentor later in life.
Cheers

Para
02-13-2005, 05:47 PM
I'm not going to complain about the price of Animation Mentor but I'd just like to remind that they money we get in total here in Europe isn't the same as what you get. The balance of income, taxes and expenses makes us (Europeans and US citizens) quite equal - at least in my eyes - but the problematic part for some is that money for us isn't something we can use in great masses very often. This means we have to devote to anything we use our money for and there's basically no room for "expensive hobbies".

That being said, I'd gladly pay double the price of Animation Mentor if I could afford it.

FUG1T1VE
02-13-2005, 05:48 PM
I'm repeating myself here... but 14,000$ is not acceptable... I was so excited too about Animation Mentor... I told my girl I wanted to maybe start studying again and follow the courses... that was while I was still downloading the catalog... when I finally got the price of it, I told her about it, she was shocked too. She went herself to the "best UC" (UC Utrecht) of the netherlands (..dunno if that is still true...but anyway, it was back then) and she had to pay 8000 a year... 3 years... 27,000$ (American UC are expensive), but it was inclusive of all expenses... we talking about all accomodations here, Room, 3 meals a day, computers, books, Sport's facilities, etc... For animation Master... 14, 000$ ?! for the name of the teatchers and "potential" contacts...?? ...am sorry, it's just not right.

pe@ce
Not acceptable. Then what is? Thats about how much I spend for a state school (in california, USA) every year and the price keeps going up. It includes, room and board, rent, among other things. Bottom line is. You have to spend money to make money.

I dont think the 14,000 is for the name of the teachers, we are talking about the vast knowledge these individuals posses. The list of credits they have on their resume. One of them even left Pixar, what would be considered a dream job for most AM prospects.

how much would you charge for over 1000 hours of 1to1 mentoring? Sure you can go out and buy dvds and exceed the number of training hours, but can you go online and quickly get a response on your progress from the authors of those dvds? Can you develop a friendship with them after you purchase the dvd? Can you have them disect your work, and then offer you a lot of advise on ways to improve it even more? it could happen but what are the possibilities that it could happen to everyone who buys those training dvds.

and though I havent seen this film, I have to give props to Tim for what he did, He recycled cans and bottles to pursue his dream. you can listen to it at http://www.3dvfx.net/

Lastly You can teach technique but you cant teach talent. - forgot where I heard it.

FUG1T1VE
02-13-2005, 05:58 PM
Na, here in america your paying at least $10,000 a year for State Universities(they get governement funding) and at least $20,000 per year for Private Universities. Thats not including housing and other expenses. $14,000 is a very reasonable price for learning animation, especially from guys who are established in the industry as great animators like the teachers at animation mentor. I doubt there's too many places that you can go and learn from animators of this caliber. And like stated above if you were to just take a 2 week masterclass you would spend more than you would on animation mentor and probably learn and absorb less knowledge than you would going through animation mentor. I wish I had enough money to go there but I got my regular school to pay for. hopefully it will be here for a while so I can take some classes at Animation mentor later in life.
Cheers

I forgot something. Yeah AM is now considered a private institution right. In private I mean that it gets no funding from the government or the state. So they have to get money to pay for all of their bills, from the kit kat bars, tech support, cameras to record the sessions, people behind the scenes and bandwith (that will be sucked up by 300 AM students).

Where there is a will there is a way.

Pinet
02-13-2005, 06:23 PM
Sorry but i thinked about online 3d teaching classes like 2 years ago so im Hot. :P

Also, i thinked bout online 3d classes would be less expensive cause ive been to some 3d school and after it, i needed to remember or learn more stuff myself cause i forgotten some stuff and the formation wasnt complete enought.

Then, I realized that there where some Free tutorials on the net and they where better lessons then some live "im better than you" "teachers" in the 3d school ive been too. Sorry for that weird phrase...

Just to say that a dude that knows how to search on the net and who loves 3d animation,
Wont have to pay 14 000$ dollars for what he can get free. There are some tutorials made by pros that no private schools teachers can beat and they're free.

What would be hot Would be if in CGtalk, they would establish some "Low fee per month" video chat where people could ask some proffessionnal dudes how to do something and the proffessionnal could do that something while the person sees the screen of the teacher and could record, or ask some more details via chat or microphone...

Like a forum but with video capture with live transmission and voice chat support, for a low month or year fee.
If people could be rewarded for posting informative replys that rely to 3d support and be rewarded for it, with live voice and video interactions, that would be nice.
Nyways.... dunno if this makes sense or if it is even comprehensive, but i send it nooow :)

Pinet
02-13-2005, 06:26 PM
I really hope for that Animation mentor organisation their video wont be on bittorrent...........

Para
02-13-2005, 06:42 PM
I really hope for that Animation mentor organisation their video wont be on bittorrent...........

That's like hoping that the Sun would be cyan and Moon be a huge space ship filled with purple fungus but lets not go there.

johngloid
02-13-2005, 06:49 PM
One of the big arguments here seems to be the comparative price of a state/art school education to AM.

Now I'm not going to say it's an "apples vs oranges" comparison, but there are definite things that are missing when comparing an online course to a physical and immediate personal interaction that art schools and universities offer. Price is the least of my concerns. I'm sure the AM folks know this, but do the people enrolling?

It will definitely be a challenge to compete with that traditional, tangible education. I'd like to believe such a thing could never be replaced--it's the way education has been for hundreds of years. Another concern of mine is the work load of the actual mentors--their jobs by nature take up a lot of time. Are they all giving their full attention to this, or will they miss a few critiques because their workload is just too much?

It will take them a few years to get up to speed and iron out most of the kinks. That goes for anything. I would, of course, keep my eye on it--then when it's a SAFE bet to spend a big chunk of change on it, I would go for it. The initial enrollment, at least from reading the board, will attract the most adventurous of the kind...and also many who can afford it the least.

In no way do I want to put anyone down, especially those at AM. I wish the very best to all those involved. I am looking at this as a great opportunity (personally, as well as for the community), but I think it's important to approach it in a skeptical, level-headed and mature fashion to avoid some very serious financial and educational disappointments.

joshmckenzie
02-13-2005, 08:01 PM
...it seems that some (and I stress SOME) of these posts are totally planted to say positive things about these classes to hype it up.

I really don't think anyone is a plant. Nobody needs to hype up the course, there's been enourmous enthusiasm and excitement about Animation Mentor ever since it was announced.

I get this errie feeling that these guys are thinking 100% of themselves and the financial gain they will get, and arent' worried about the students at all. I can't explain it, but I feel this sense as if this is mostly about money.

Come on, be fair. Just go back and read the messages from the Animation Mentor founders (in the other thread). This is such a high-profile project with has gained huge exposure on the web. Everyone will be watching closely how Animation Mentor progresses. If things go awry (and I certainly hope they don't), you can be certain everyone will hear about it. I think your "eerie feeling" is very definitely misplaced!

clockwerkz
02-13-2005, 10:05 PM
It will definitely be a challenge to compete with that traditional, tangible education. I'd like to believe such a thing could never be replaced--it's the way education has been for hundreds of years. Another concern of mine is the work load of the actual mentors--their jobs by nature take up a lot of time. Are they all giving their full attention to this, or will they miss a few critiques because their workload is just too much?

They're not competing with a traditional education. Their session is the equivalent of a class. So if you're in school, you can use AM as a separate class.

Most of those mentors already teach at their local academies and universities, so I'm sure they won't have a problem in time management. :)

cW

johngloid
02-13-2005, 10:19 PM
They're not competing with a traditional education. Their session is the equivalent of a class. So if you're in school, you can use AM as a separate class.

cW

The folks at AM will say this, but the rhetoric on this board, specifically, speaks otherwise. A lot of folks are comparing it to Ringling, CalArts etc. If it was the other way around, and everyone was supplementing AM to a 4-year degree, then it would be a different story.

Most of those mentors already teach at their local academies and universities, so I'm sure they won't have a problem in time management. :)

cW

I see it exactly the opposite. There's only so much time in a day. A good balance would be like other schools/unis --a small portion of faculty/staff devoted full time, and the rest part time working on the job.

falclor
02-13-2005, 10:36 PM
Does anyone realize that these mentors are actual animators? I am pretty sure most of them will still be working and also teach.. So if you do not thing 14,000.00 is worth it, then have fun going through the other options out there that you will most likely pay MORE than 14,000.00 to learn from. Sure there are a small few that have some amazing natural talents that can just pick up a mouse and make some incredible animations. Most of us, have to work extra hard to make stuff look nice. The ole 20/80 rule... To pick the brains of the TOP animators out there today, if you are going to spend money and the time to learn or better your talents, then these guys are the way to go.. No, I have no relations to the school, they don't need that. Just look at thier resumes, and I am sure thier already nice paychecks...

stewartjones
02-13-2005, 10:40 PM
I am unsure of what the problems are here.

If you don't have the cash, then you can't join. If you don't like the fact that it's online, then go some other route.

I'm not starting an argument, I'm just stating it how it is.


Surely we should debate which is the best way to go about it after we see how well the graduates from AM do within the industry?!?! :shrug:

Adriano-Zanetti
02-13-2005, 10:52 PM
It was very selfish of me to complain about the 14,000$... probably got out of the frustration of not being able to spend that sorta money on my own education. It's probably a difference of culture, it seems so natural to most US native or resident to spend such amount for even regular state Universities... and sure, you can't even compare those as AM is indeed a very specific cursus. It will probably be worth every penny, especially for dedicated passionate wannabe Animators who will take the risk to invest so much money in it... I sure envy them, I guess I'd be 10 years younger, I'd go for it too... I guess I'll just have to grab the vidz on Bittorrents ;O) ...hehe... which is quite an irrelevant issue here as what really matters I think in this cursus is to get direct feedbacks over your own work from those who lead in this industry. Anyway... enough about this for me.

Oh... and someone asked me how much I think would be the right price for AM earlier... honestly, I dunno anymore... I did read some good points defending the 14,000$ saying that price was fair.. it is very subjective... for me it just felt like telling my girl and my kids "we could move to an appartment 2 times bigger and work only half of the week... but Daddy is gonna take some 'on line' classes that 'might' pay back in a couple of years!" ...it did sound wrong. SO if you can pay 14,000$ go for it... I just don't think we're so many in this field with that sorta money when we start... when mum and dad have money, kids usually don't stay 24/7 doing nerdy CG Stuff the way we do... I'm sure lots of us are still paying the credit of their own computer :O) ..I dunno guys.

Anyway, I sure wish Good Luck and lots of fun to AM and their chosen ones.

pe@ce

clockwerkz
02-13-2005, 11:19 PM
The folks at AM will say this, but the rhetoric on this board, specifically, speaks otherwise. A lot of folks are comparing it to Ringling, CalArts etc. If it was the other way around, and everyone was supplementing AM to a 4-year degree, then it would be a different story.



I see it exactly the opposite. There's only so much time in a day. A good balance would be like other schools/unis --a small portion of faculty/staff devoted full time, and the rest part time working on the job.

OK, let me rephrase that...I meant to say they have experience teaching, not that they're taking AM in addition to teaching and working.

As for the comparison.. u can't compare AM to any other school, because it's different. I've mentioned in the past that if I were 18 years old and could do college all over again, I would go to something like CalArts, VFS, or Ringling. Instead, I'm 30, have a full time job, a wife and baby. Hehehe. Anyhow, is leaving town and attending a school fulltime an option for me? Not when we're a two salary househod. What about an on-line course at home on my spare time in the evenings?

cW

Purgpow
02-13-2005, 11:47 PM
Everyone is spiting out 14,000 dollars, but that is just for the right to log on to the School. They require getting your own supplies, which is more money. A student License of Maya is about $500.00 a year. Yes only lasts a year. Then you have High-speed Internet connection Which AM.com requires you to have, thatís another 50.00 a month. And if you fail to pass a class the first time your taking it over thatís another 2000.00 pop again.



The prices are Close to your typical Brick And Morder School, but there is No building to go to, no Social place to meet fellow student and instructors, So if Part of the money from the tuition is Not going to paying the Buildings Rent, Location and the Computers and Equipment like other schools do, then where is going? Why is AM comparing the prices of other schools tuitions, but not spending the same as other schools on Equipment and location?



The idea sounds Great.. I was Playing to join like many others were, but the price seems to exceed what you get for a course that slams you through an online class.



Thanks for letting me Get that off my Chest

Kimotion
02-14-2005, 01:02 AM
Furthermore, there has been talk on more than one occasion of using a credit card..., um I mean, getting yourself in major credit card debt to pay for the classes. Almost like it's being promoted. This is very, very wrong. I think I recollect one of the mentors advising this, although I could be wrong. The higher your debt, the more the card companies will pour on the interest, it's a fact. Do the math and don't be dumb enough to pay for the school with credit cards. You don't build credit with big prices like that, you destroy it. Oh yea, and if you are a high school grad, or even just out of college going on your first credit card, it would be interesting to see if you are even eligible for a credit line that high. Highly unlikely with no previous credit, and you could very well be on your way to destroying that credit for life. Everyone knows this, and to promote these types of actions is extremely selfish and irresponsible.



I don't think anyone here is "promoting" getting yourself into credit card debt. What I said is that it's another OPTION. There's a huge difference between promoting something and stating an option.

Just use it responsibly...pay it off as much as you can, and at the very least pay triple your minimal payment to keep your head afloat. I worked for 2 years at one of the top 2 credit card companies, and it is in the bank's best interest to pile the debt on and fool people into paying the minimum payment.

Like I said, education is no guarantee. It's an INVESTMENT. And investments take further investments to support that investment. Get it?

Bulldog
02-14-2005, 01:46 AM
Everyone is spiting out 14,000 dollars, but that is just for the right to log on to the School. They require getting your own supplies, which is more money. A student License of Maya is about $500.00 a year. Yes only lasts a year. Then you have High-speed Internet connection Which AM.com requires you to have, thatís another 50.00 a month. And if you fail to pass a class the first time your taking it over thatís another 2000.00 pop again.



The prices are Close to your typical Brick And Morder School, but there is No building to go to, no Social place to meet fellow student and instructors, So if Part of the money from the tuition is Not going to paying the Buildings Rent, Location and the Computers and Equipment like other schools do, then where is going? Why is AM comparing the prices of other schools tuitions, but not spending the same as other schools on Equipment and location?



The idea sounds Great.. I was Playing to join like many others were, but the price seems to exceed what you get for a course that slams you through an online class.



Thanks for letting me Get that off my Chest


Are you the cousin of dogpound?

lets see..

student version of maya is something you should have anyway if you are a 3d student , just so you know schools charge $500 lab fee for each class taken in most art schools so if you have 3 animation classes thats $1500 a semester and you cant waive out of it.

$50 dsl fee , good god , they require you to have internet access! i feel ripped off! i have no need for internet access if it wasnt for AM , you are absolutely right on that its a outrage.

Yes there is no building to go to but there is obviously a social environment to meet the fellow students and mentors , thats like...the whole point of AM. I dont know about you but after paying $2k i'll be quite social there and get to know everyone.

As for the if you fail the class you pay another $2k thing , newsflash buddy , its the same in every school ;)

oh i am such a plant... :)

dimension10
02-14-2005, 02:26 AM
I sure envy them, I guess I'd be 10 years younger, I'd go for it too... I guess I'll just have to grab the vidz on Bittorrents ;O) ...hehe...

I doubt that these video files would be available for bittorrents, because I am pretty sure that they will be embedded in the sites flashplayer, meaning that they can be viewed but not downloaded. In any case, anybody that would pay the price of these courses and then share the resources online has some serious issues.

cREATURE hARMONY
02-14-2005, 03:37 AM
Ok well that sucks. According to them, system requirements are PC only. Just bought this Mac, can't splurge for a PC. I don't get it, Maya runs on Mac also.

andy_maxman
02-14-2005, 03:58 AM
hi folks,
another weekend away from the internet and another newsletter release and 'here we go again'...only this time it screams 'BOOmmmmmMMMM'.

guys there is enough material for me to go through to know a few things. so would someone let me know by when ( the date ) do we need to get in touch with the AM team regarding the admissions?
what and when is the first step to be taken to make sure one gets on board?

i'm just pressed for time right now to go through the pdf catalog. and i know it sounds bloody lame an excuse.

all the best guys.....will have fun and one helluva ride....
cheers!

emptyness
02-14-2005, 06:57 AM
Hi to all guys :)

Recovering myself from excitement, I would like to post some questions about tuition payment (i have just mailed them to the AM guys but i'd like to get feedback from the community) :

First question:
Filling application form and filing the essay, then taking the SLE test and sending our degree bind us to take (and pay) ALL the tuition (aka: the 6 classes) or we have the possibility to pay for each class and (then) check if we can afford to pay for the next one ?

Second question:
Is it possible to enroll in just one class (the first one, of course), paying for it, taking the class start-to-finish and then decide if it's ok to take the next one (and paying for it) ? The PDF speaks only about a "Tuition payment plan" which allows the student to "divide" the (total) tuition into six payments... But what if I only want to take the first class and then decide if I want to take (and pay for) the next one (manly for budget concerns) ?

Last question (just to clarify and put things in a logical order):
Is it possible to take (and pay for) one class and then wait for some time before taking the next one ? (maybe in order to get the necessary funds to pay for the next class...) This could easily be my situation :)

Thank you very much for your patience :)

PS: I sent my e-mail addresses (3!) using the form present in your main site but I have received no mails from AM (It seems that other guys have received newsletters and notice of open enrollment instead). Is it normal ?

doggpound
02-14-2005, 10:41 AM
Just a few points since I've been reading. I don't think it's going to get any more personable or social than it is right here on this free cgtalk forum. Webcams are creepy anyhow from experience. Maybe if it was a conference room and a high tech camera, but that's totally different.

Out of 300 people, who are they going to pick to get the contacts? Well, probably the best animator(s) of this very large group right? Well, don't these best animators usually get noticed anyhow because of their work, and generally in turn meet good contacts because of this? Especially these days with the internet..you pay a connection fee, and you have a world of info and contacts and sending your reels over email, and it's all for free.

So, the question is, how did these animators get so good? Probably it was in them from the get go and they just practiced at it. There are certainly rules to animation, but it really is just life observation, personality, and hard work. Oh yea, being an aritist and able to draw really IS an important aspect..theres NO two ways about it. Its' all about your sense of composition and what 'looks good'. You really learn these things fast when you draw, becuase the pencil to paper is the fastest way to get those ideas out and to reflect on them.

If you spent more time animating, and spend a little money on some amazing books that you can look at and study as many times as you want (illusion of life, animators survival etc). Use the interent and all it's amazing 'resources', there are all types and we know what they are and what they will be..... And take an acting course and/or drawing course at night (or day) at an accredited and recognized animation school.. And definetly get involved in one of the always happening group projects on a short film where you actually meet up and discuss what you are doing, and act things out, laugh, get personable. You won't have to be taking any animation courses to get involved. You get into the project and start learning a ton from the others you are working with, and just from the constant practice. You're working hard, and then you come to find out the director of this short has friends who work at Blur and Tippet, and he says that he can take you to meet them when they hang out this Friday. Next thing you know you are on your way to your dream job becuase the guys from Blur thought you were really cool and they saw your reel and saw your potential, and have heard what a hard and persistent worker you are because the director told them so. How you are at the studio/lab/meetings all the time till very late. Always talking and acting out ideas for the story and full of passion. And it only cost you a trip to a new exciting area and a couple of courses, and look what you gained. New friends you actually met in person, some real life experience, some laughs, and your dream job. And oh yea, you get to see all the beautiful girls in the fashion department and all the other majors, and possibly even get a chance to 'get to know' a few of them (if you have the time that is) ;)

RayenD
02-14-2005, 12:00 PM
Sure, you can go to school in Europe for even Ä500 (like here in my hometown), but I believe there's not a single course in Europe focusing on just character animation. If it's true what they say - and I believe it is - we will gain a lot more experience with this course then in a regular school.

Well, there is a good reason for this (no school focusing on character animation purely in Europe).

There are almost no jobs in Europe in CG business focused only on character animation, unless you want to do loops and massage mocap data for games. No fun, believe me. I worked pretty much in every EU country where CG business is existent.

Yes, you can work in US. But, unless things will change (I am talking about 9.11 and patriot program or whatever it is called), be prepared to take your shoes off everytime you enter US. If you want to work there better start to find US woman to marry right now or be a professional with tons of experience (which you will never get in EU if you can only animate characters and ONLY this) and preferably a lot of worldwide animation festivals won.

Otherwise forget about US studios or count on miracle. The studio may like you but US Goverment will not. No Visa. I saying this AFTER working for few US companies on-site and off site.

There are at least two great schools in Europe which teach character animation among other things needed to suceed on EU cg market. One is in Germany, another in Denmark and there are probably a few more which I don't know about.

I am not telling you that working for Pixar or whatever is impossible for European. It is. But it is much harder because of current US politics. You need to be working, experienced professional to be even considered worth work visa.

In EU it is much wiser to be a strong generalist first, then specialize in character animation...

eek
02-14-2005, 12:27 PM
Well, there is a good reason for this (no school focusing on character animation purely in Europe).

There are almost no jobs in Europe in CG business focused only on character animation, unless you want to do loops and massage mocap data for games. No fun, believe me. I worked pretty much in every EU country where CG business is existent.

Yes, you can work in US. But, unless things will change (I am talking about 9.11 and patriot program or whatever it is called), be prepared to take your shoes off everytime you enter US. If you want to work there better start to find US woman to marry right now or be a professional with tons of experience (which you will never get in EU if you can only animate characters and ONLY this) and preferably a lot of worldwide animation festivals won.

Otherwise forget about US studios or count on miracle. The studio may like you but US Goverment will not. No Visa. I saying this AFTER working for few US companies on-site and off site.

There are at least two great schools in Europe which teach character animation among other things needed to suceed on EU cg market. One is in Germany, another in Denmark and there are probably a few more which I don't know about.

I am not telling you that working for Pixar or whatever is impossible for European. It is. But it is much harder because of current US politics. You need to be working, experienced professional to be even considered worth work visa.

In EU it is much wiser to be a strong generalist first, then specialize in character animation...


What the hell are you talking about? In London alone there is:

Framestore-CFC, Passion Pictures, Valiant(film), Studio-aka, lionhead. Then you have aardmans cg department, red, bbc 2, cinesite. In scotland theres a few too.

In paris theres: Buf campagne

As to jobs, it fluctuates around the year.

As to working in the US, yes its hard but not impossible. They are tightening entrancees, after 9/11. But theres still a set of regulations that you can pass. Namely:

A college degree gives you around 2800 points.
A published work, that is international. TV/film etc etc

I dont know about visa regs, but a few friends of mine all english who have worked at places such as disney. Have found visas fine.

Thats all i know.

Its not impossible its just hard, the main reason is that law states, that if they can find two people to carry out the same job, then they'll hire them. Also fewer and fewer visas are going out each year. So get good with everything, then form contacts and networks. Its the best way. 50% what you know, 50% who you know.


dogpound,

So, the question is, how did these animators get so good?

Practise, good tutors and being surrounded by other animators, like minded. Also sheer determination!

------

I would love to do animation mentor, but its the cost that'll kill me. The course, maya & licencing and broadband. + Probably a new machine. Im still thinking about it, but i dont know, i would need to give up my current paid job and really focus on it.

eek



eek

cgtalkmember
02-14-2005, 03:01 PM
Ok im trying to apply and i signed up long time ago for the email and i never got any news signed up again for the email thing and i read the faqs and i still dont know how to apply or where to apply?

benwatt
02-14-2005, 03:41 PM
Ok im trying to apply and i signed up long time ago for the email and i never got any news signed up again for the email thing and i read the faqs and i still dont know how to apply or where to apply?

The contents of the latest newsletter are all at http://www.animationmentor.com/newsletter/AMonlineNewsletter_4.XX1.html as in the first post of this thread :)

mike33
02-14-2005, 04:36 PM
1)
I think for those who can't afford this type of education at this time, but still want to attend some day, in 18 to 36 months you will know how good AM is. In the mean time you(we) have all that time to improve the other aspects of art, animation, observation, etc.

2)
The basics of Animation are already written, amazing films already made, and life happens everyday you wake up. AM isn't the answer to a career in animation. You are.

Well that's my 2 cents of wisdom (don't complain about it either, I was going to charge $14,000). Time to go to the bank so I can get groceries this evening and observe other peoples faces, body styles and walk cycles...

Cheers,

Mike

og_reborn
02-14-2005, 04:46 PM
I would just like to second the questions emptyness asked, and make sure they don't go unnoticed in this debate about the fairness of the cost.
It would definitely make things easier if we could take time in between payments (and classes) to save up more for the next one.

One other question...
Am I to take what I read in the catalog seriously about there being a limit on the amount of times we can view a lecture?! For over $160/class shouldn't we be allowed to view that lecture as many times as we want/need to?
Don't get me wrong...I understand and appreciate the fact that in a school you would only get that period once, so three times is (a little) better. I also imagine you have good reason not to allow students to download the clip (the lectures would pop up on p2p apps quickly I imagine, which would be awful to say the least).
BUT, I think it's only fair that students be allowed to use that lecture as reference, in the future, as much as they need after paying that amount to see it.

Bentagon
02-14-2005, 05:10 PM
First question:
Filling application form and filing the essay, then taking the SLE test and sending our degree bind us to take (and pay) ALL the tuition (aka: the 6 classes) or we have the possibility to pay for each class and (then) check if we can afford to pay for the next one ?I believe so. Since previously, you would have ONLY been able to pay for one class at a time, but they've changed it now, it'd be strange that they wouldn't let you go away after a class.

Second question:
Is it possible to enroll in just one class (the first one, of course), paying for it, taking the class start-to-finish and then decide if it's ok to take the next one (and paying for it) ? The PDF speaks only about a "Tuition payment plan" which allows the student to "divide" the (total) tuition into six payments... But what if I only want to take the first class and then decide if I want to take (and pay for) the next one (manly for budget concerns) ? Isn't this just the same question?

Last question (just to clarify and put things in a logical order):
Is it possible to take (and pay for) one class and then wait for some time before taking the next one ? (maybe in order to get the necessary funds to pay for the next class...) This could easily be my situation :)Yes. Shawn Kelly talks about this in the other thread.

Am I to take what I read in the catalog seriously about there being a limit on the amount of times we can view a lecture?! For over $160/class shouldn't we be allowed to view that lecture as many times as we want/need to?
Don't get me wrong...I understand and appreciate the fact that in a school you would only get that period once, so three times is (a little) better. I also imagine you have good reason not to allow students to download the clip (the lectures would pop up on p2p apps quickly I imagine, which would be awful to say the least).
BUT, I think it's only fair that students be allowed to use that lecture as reference, in the future, as much as they need after paying that amount to see it. I first felt a bit sad about this too, but after a while, I came to my senses. Like you said: we're able to see it trice the times students can see it in a class. On top of that, these documentairies have the most perfect examples of the different things they could find, and had TONS of time to put all the best information in there. No teacher who is doubting whether he has said every important thing, who is unclear, or who is using wrong or not that good examples. On top of that, I'm assuming there will be a pause button (and maybe even rewind button) which gives you a much bigger and easier opportunity for taking notes or even drawing something. What more could you want?

- Benjamin

og_reborn
02-14-2005, 07:25 PM
I first felt a bit sad about this too, but after a while, I came to my senses. Like you said: we're able to see it trice the times students can see it in a class. On top of that, these documentairies have the most perfect examples of the different things they could find, and had TONS of time to put all the best information in there. No teacher who is doubting whether he has said every important thing, who is unclear, or who is using wrong or not that good examples. On top of that, I'm assuming there will be a pause button (and maybe even rewind button) which gives you a much bigger and easier opportunity for taking notes or even drawing something. What more could you want?

yeah I see what you mean, but I think saying that "in a physical class you'd only get to see it once" is a pretty weak justification for limiting us. This ISN'T a physical class. It's a video that's been recorded, edited, and tweaked to the instructors' liking. Shouldn't we be allowed the advantages that this fact provides?

emptyness
02-14-2005, 09:07 PM
Hi folks, lets' make some light to the "payment issues" that i (and maybe some other guy out there) advanced some time ago:
"May I take an entire class, take a break (to acquire necessary funding) and then take the next one?"
et's review together the answer AM gave me and tell me your impressions. :)
peace!

---- AM reply to my issues regarding payments and intermittent attendance ----
You have the option to pay the entire tuition up front or choose a payment plan in which each class tuition payment is due 10 days prior to the start of each class. Please read the last paragraph of page 34 of the AM catalogue for more info. If you should for whatever reason decide to drop out of the program, you will be entitled to either a refund for the remaining classes and/or class sessions (if you have paid for the program in full), or you will not owe any money on future classes (if you have chosen a payment plan). However, we give priority to students who want and are able to take the program in full, just like any other university or college.

AnimationMentor.com allows a Leave of Absence for issues relating to health, family emergency, military duty, etc. However, if you have to leave the program due to financial issues, you will have to withdraw and reapply again for whichever term you want to continue once you are financially able. However, again, AnimationMentor.com is looking for students who are able to take the entire program from start to finish without any leave of absences.

Bentagon
02-14-2005, 09:27 PM
yeah I see what you mean, but I think saying that "in a physical class you'd only get to see it once" is a pretty weak justification for limiting us. This ISN'T a physical class. It's a video that's been recorded, edited, and tweaked to the instructors' liking. Shouldn't we be allowed the advantages that this fact provides?We are allowed to some advantages, the ones I stated, but just not all. I think they'd loved it for us to be able to have all those advantages (Shawn says in the interview here on cgnetworks that we would have been able to look at it as many times as we had wished), but they just can't, due to the obvious bandwith and piracy reasons.

- Benjamin

dimension10
02-14-2005, 09:42 PM
yeah I see what you mean, but I think saying that "in a physical class you'd only get to see it once" is a pretty weak justification for limiting us. This ISN'T a physical class. It's a video that's been recorded, edited, and tweaked to the instructors' liking. Shouldn't we be allowed the advantages that this fact provides?

I can see how that is a weak justification, and I almost wished that they just didn't refer to it that way and stuck to the reason being bandwidth limits. Which is going to be an issue that could make or break the first session of AM. They must have a serious web server in place to stream video to 300 people possibly at one time without choking, and be able to handle real time video chat. The first to sign up are kind of the guinea pigs, and there will inherently be some problems along the way, a lot of us are working along with doing these programs and there would be nothing worse than sitting down at a desk in your free time to view a lesson, only to learn that the site is down or performing too slowly to handle the delivery of the video.
At this point we have to believe that the guys took the time to really research the amount of bandwidth needed to handle this kind of performance.

With a bit of risk comes reward. Early adapters sometimes take the fall, but more times than not they get early exposure to something truly remarkable.

Bentagon
02-14-2005, 09:46 PM
I believe bandwith will be the only real significant problem left. I've believe they've been beta-testing the site for quite some time now. So it wouldn't look to me like the first ones are going to be guinea-pigs... just some lucky people ;)

- Benjamin

PS: am I spending too much time checking these threads? I feel like I'm replying to every single post made :blush: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

swadepgh
02-14-2005, 10:11 PM
Bentagon you are not the only one. I feel like I am reading all of the posts as they are posted. Heh.

I wish they would tell us more about when the registration will be. I am getting jumpy thinking about it so much. I almost wish that registration was over and we all knew whether or not we got in.

Pinet
02-15-2005, 04:48 AM
dont go to that school.

Get free tutorials and CGtalk support instead and buy yourself some stuff with your 14 000$
They should start a thread:

"If you learn 3D by yourself with Tuts and 3DForums instead of going to that school,
what would you do with 14 000$?"

Jozvex
02-15-2005, 05:03 AM
dont go to that school.

Get free tutorials and CGtalk support instead

Free tutorials written by Pixar/ILM/Blue Sky/Weta Digital employees that are specifically on character animation? Wow you're right! Can you tell me where those are??

RayenD
02-15-2005, 05:39 AM
Free tutorials written by Pixar/ILM/Blue Sky/Weta Digital employees that are specifically on character animation? Wow you're right! Can you tell me where those are??
Well, honestly.. I'll play devil advocate for a second :)

There are at least two not free, but cheap "tutorials":

"Illusion of life" by Frank and Ollie
"Animator Survival Kit" by Richard Williams
As much as I respect AM mentors, no one on the list is Richard Williams (who by the way teaches some expensive 3-4 days master classes from time to time)

That include all the theory you need and unless AM guys invented something radically new, they won't teach you much more theoretically. If Landreth would be one of the mentors... ;).

Those two books does not cover acting too much. But there is another book, "Acting for animators", by Ed Hooks. Ed is the greatest guy in the world and teaches animators in top studios all around the world about acting in animation.

You can get pretty mean, serious and correct critique from at least two mailing lists on the internet. Cg talk (which is great community) isn't the best place to post character animations for critique.

Two things are missing which are not easy to find. First is a method of learning - AM guys know that you need to start from basics the move to arms ;) etc.. and they can guide you through this, pointing out mistakes through the process. You will have dedicated mentor, so his critique will be coherent. That's the main advantage over learning by yourself.

Usually beginners start from acting tests :)

Second is a possibility to catch some real life tips and tricks, like how long it takes the arm to reach the nose, so it looks that character is nervous. But.. this is the part I am afraid that no real interaction might be a problem.

Jozvex
02-15-2005, 06:00 AM
There are at least two not free, but cheap "tutorials":

"Illusion of life" by Frank and Ollie
"Animator Survival Kit" by Richard Williams

I have both of those books and of course, they are great. In the Animation Mentor newsletter it says that they are recommended reading to accompany the course.

Those two books does not cover acting too much. But there is another book, "Acting for animators", by Ed Hooks.

I have that book too! I actually really love that book, it's very helpful indeed. But you know what can be significantly more helpful to some people? Visual learning through demonstration! Which is what AM offers alongside reading books etc.

Two things are missing which are not easy to find. First is a method of learning - AM guys know that you need to start from basics the move to arms ;) etc.. and they can guide you through this, pointing out mistakes through the process. You will have dedicated mentor, so his critique will be coherent. That's the main advantage over learning by yourself.

Usually beginners start from acting tests :)

Second is a possibility to catch some real life tips and tricks, like how long it takes the arm to reach the nose, so it looks that character is nervous.

Yeah I agree with all of that!

But.. this is the part I am afraid that no real interaction might be a problem.

I understand your point, but it's still a step up from reading books. Books give you 0 interaction. There's not much difference between Bobby or Carlos saying "now look how fast my arm moves.." and showing it on a video than seeing a real instructor doing it in real life.

It's their guidance and experience that people want!

ietra
02-15-2005, 07:45 AM
Look y'all, school is school, work experience is work experience. For some people (like myself), plunking down the $$ and making the commitment to be a full-time CG student for a chunk of my life was the only way I was going to get serious about it. Other folks are self-motivated enough to learn on their own. It's an individual choice as to what fits you.

I think AM's prices are totally reasonable (if out of my post-gradschool reach.) Consider that they're entirely staffed w/awesome pros, most of whom have full-time work commitments. It's hard to balance those in a school -- most top industry professionals are too busy to teach.

This is also a very niche school, teaching a specific art form with a specific curriculum in a way not available elsewhere. That kind of education costs...

And as far as letting you view the lectures an infinite number of times -- take notes! At least you can pause & rewind the lecture, and after 3 times you should have what you need. Yeah, it would be nice but you can't blame them -- unless you're bummed that you can't split the cost of classes with your buddies, which is what would inevitably happen. Anyway, enough people will probably distribute screen-grabs or audio/vidcaptures and mess it up.

Totally true that it's harder to make contacts through virtual interactions, webcams and all. But you'll be interacting one-on-one w/enough folks that everyone has heard of, and getting your work seen by a variety of pros. If you do the work and have the talent, you'll easily make that $14K back w/in a year, if not a couple of months.

eek
02-15-2005, 09:05 AM
This thread is starting to make me loose appeal...

all i wanna do is animate!

(basically be back in animation school with my buddies: Sam, Tom, Alex if your reading this)

eek

mgarward
02-15-2005, 11:08 AM
Don't join AnimationMentor.com, it wil suck. They are encouraging credit card debt, they won't really teach you anything NEW, it costs a LOT more than a couple of books, and you can only watch the exclusive video lessons THREE times! Plus, I've heard that if you get accepted into the course, both your arms will fall off. It's obviously the worst thing to happen to the animation industry ever. Don't sign up!





...Hopefully that will discourage enough people from applying that there will actually be room for ME in the class! MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

*gasp*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHahahaahaaaahaaaaaa!





Wait... was that my outside voice? CURSES!

mgarward
02-15-2005, 11:16 AM
Seriously, I can understand it it being a lot of money for some people. But apart from that I personally see no negatives. I want to be a character animator. They will be teaching exactly what I want to learn, and these people have animated some of my favorite characters and moments. To actually have the chance to learn from them is, to me, an opportunity not to be missed.

I am surprised that, after the registration details are finally announced, there is this sudden negativity here. Some people seem to be actively trying to bring down the school, and discourage other people from joining. If YOU have issues with animationmentor.com, and don't want to apply, then the solution is easy: Don't apply. No-one is forcing you to apply, and that will leave more room for those of us who want to get in. But I for one am excited, I haven't been this excited about something for a LONG time, and this excitement is shared by many other people here.

If you don't like the course, don't apply, but please let us keep bouncing off the walls. It's fun.:)

andy_maxman
02-15-2005, 11:44 AM
Wait... was that my outside voice? CURSES!

look in the mirror mate....does it scream 'smeagols'.......'my precioussssss'?

eek
02-15-2005, 01:04 PM
Seriously, I can understand it it being a lot of money for some people. But apart from that I personally see no negatives. I want to be a character animator. They will be teaching exactly what I want to learn, and these people have animated some of my favorite characters and moments. To actually have the chance to learn from them is, to me, an opportunity not to be missed.

I am surprised that, after the registration details are finally announced, there is this sudden negativity here. Some people seem to be actively trying to bring down the school, and discourage other people from joining. If YOU have issues with animationmentor.com, and don't want to apply, then the solution is easy: Don't apply. No-one is forcing you to apply, and that will leave more room for those of us who want to get in. But I for one am excited, I haven't been this excited about something for a LONG time, and this excitement is shared by many other people here.

If you don't like the course, don't apply, but please let us keep bouncing off the walls. It's fun.:)


cheers man, that was a nice boost. Now where do i sign....

eek

victor throe
02-15-2005, 02:56 PM
well, my job has offered to put me through the course in principle..

wont be able to start until the autumn though, and providing i can do it one session at a time work permitting.

until then, my sweaty nose print remains on the outside of their window

webshot
02-15-2005, 04:04 PM
Maybe this was asked somewhere. But will there be training dvd's available for those that cannot make the move to the class? It would be pretty cool idea IMO, but it is just an idea. Sucks because I live in Berkeley and would love these classes, but the cash flow is not cool right now. I have hundreds of characters drawn but no idea how to animate :(

victor throe
02-15-2005, 04:18 PM
can a user id be stamped onto the feed for each viewer, like a news overlay?

theres plenty of apps out there that allow you to record direct feeds. i think if someone is inclined to pay 14k and then upload it, nothing is going to stop them. probably put a video camera in front of the monitor just in case you missed something the first 3 times.

Bentagon
02-15-2005, 04:29 PM
Maybe this was asked somewhere. But will there be training dvd's available for those that cannot make the move to the class? It would be pretty cool idea IMO, but it is just an idea. Sucks because I live in Berkeley and would love these classes, but the cash flow is not cool right now. I have hundreds of characters drawn but no idea how to animate :(It has been mentioned, and there will NOT be any dvd's. That's not what they've designed the classes for. They want to create a pretty tight community and be able to give one-on-one interaction and critique.

- Benjamin

fluxgrafx
02-15-2005, 06:29 PM
Yowza! All sorts of opinions up in here. Well, my collegues and I think that this really could be a great thing. I mean come on, these guys work in the biggest companies there are. Can't go wrong there. I guess time will tell.

Hotdawg
02-15-2005, 06:58 PM
Reality check:

While I think Animation Mentor will be a great class, I think a LOT of the fanboys here have very unrealistic expectations about their career in animation.

You will not get a job at Pixar because of Animation Mentor. You have to be very talented, have great connections, have lots of experience, and an even better attitude to be considered for feature film studios. Now I'm sure there will be the fortunate few (read: 2) who may get an internship or junior animation job, but the vast majority (read: everyone) will end up working somewhere else, or not working at all in animation.

Animation Mentor is going to teach you, and teach you well, but it isnt a guarantee for ANYTHING. If there is one flaw in their marketing, it's instilling the false hope that you will get a great job at ILM or PDI or Pixar just by taking this class. If your goal is to become a better animator, and get a job in the game industry or smaller animation studio, then you will likely be more successful then not, but only if you work hard. But I think a lot of the excitement on these boards is almost a buzz generated by who can get the most attention by being the biggest fanboy and, in turn, get noticed by people in the industry. That's kind of sad. Even the best animators in the industry (like, my friends here in FL who just got canned by an unnamed animation studio) are trying desperately to find animation jobs. Most of them have moved to CA or overseas, and are struggling, and they have Aladdin on their reel.

I guess I'm just asking people to be realistic about their expectations with this class. Like any other school, it's about how much you put into it. And even then, remember that there are hundreds of talented animators trying to get the same job you are. Im not trying to be discouraging, but this is a tough industry.

Good luck

stewartjones
02-15-2005, 07:39 PM
Any news on the official start time of enrollment yet?

(Need to set my alarms, and sort my diary!) :thumbsup:

LIGHTYEAR
02-15-2005, 07:55 PM
I thought they were going to announce it yesterday but nothing happened? Hopefully it will be about mid-day their time, that should mean most people are still awake.

webshot
02-15-2005, 08:42 PM
aahhh...it pays to read. This is an online course *slaps head*. And it sounds excellent. Maybe I'll make the next go around. I would like to see some of the finished works of the students and sample sections. Just to help make it more appealing. I know the list of instructors and animators is pretty impressive. But I have taken similar courses and I found that "too many chefs can spoil the stew". Just because big names back it does not necessarily ensure a good course. But it does sound great.

Bentagon
02-15-2005, 10:23 PM
Reality check:

While I think Animation Mentor will be a great class, I think a LOT of the fanboys here have very unrealistic expectations about their career in animation.

You will not get a job at Pixar because of Animation Mentor. You have to be very talented, have great connections, have lots of experience, and an even better attitude to be considered for feature film studios. Now I'm sure there will be the fortunate few (read: 2) who may get an internship or junior animation job, but the vast majority (read: everyone) will end up working somewhere else, or not working at all in animation.

Animation Mentor is going to teach you, and teach you well, but it isnt a guarantee for ANYTHING. If there is one flaw in their marketing, it's instilling the false hope that you will get a great job at ILM or PDI or Pixar just by taking this class. If your goal is to become a better animator, and get a job in the game industry or smaller animation studio, then you will likely be more successful then not, but only if you work hard. But I think a lot of the excitement on these boards is almost a buzz generated by who can get the most attention by being the biggest fanboy and, in turn, get noticed by people in the industry. That's kind of sad. Even the best animators in the industry (like, my friends here in FL who just got canned by an unnamed animation studio) are trying desperately to find animation jobs. Most of them have moved to CA or overseas, and are struggling, and they have Aladdin on their reel.

I guess I'm just asking people to be realistic about their expectations with this class. Like any other school, it's about how much you put into it. And even then, remember that there are hundreds of talented animators trying to get the same job you are. Im not trying to be discouraging, but this is a tough industry.

Good luckAll of us know it's a tough industry. That's one of the reasons why we want to do this... so we might learn that extra bit that could make us better then the rest, or just get at the same level a wee bit faster. And how do you even have the idea that it's a flaw in their marketing implying that thing? They have repeated it tons and tons of times that they can only teach you animation, but you have to want to learn it, and you have to be eager enough to get there, work your ass off, etc. The introduction of the catalogue even says this: the three p's. Practice, perseverance and personality. Your whole post seems to me like an advice of "stay out of this industry", rather then "AM might not be what you expect"...

- Benjamin

Hotdawg
02-16-2005, 12:03 AM
It still seems like fanboy antics to me....

I just hope everyone has realistic expectations before plunking down 13 grand, that's all. I'm not trying to "keep anyone out the industry," the industry does a good enough job doing that on its own.

eek
02-16-2005, 08:53 AM
Hotdawg,

Your bang on the money there. For lack of a better word the industry is bl**dy hard, and AM is no garentee for anything, just like going to uni, may not give you a job at the end of it.
Its only the ones with sheer detemination, and guts, and all importantly willing to try new things,techniques, animation styles.

Its like with everything you have to live it and breath it.

Bentagon,

Chill man, hotdawg was only starting a fact. The whole premise of these threads has barrel rolled onto some " we are now all Bud Luckys after AM. " Its a school like any other, its got great tutors and a good nice schedule, and learning curve. And thats IT! there side, you have to be extremely focused, and dedicated, make contacts. And also key is its gotta be fun! Heck! its pointless staying in this industry if its not fun!

I had one of the coolest times at uni, learning animation. And if this is anything like it, it should be a winner.

I remeber something John Lasseter once said (if i recall), "If you can make a stickman think, have empathy thats all you need" - and this is so important. Its our side that brings the brain to the character, its thoughts, it feelings.

right thats my rant - back to work.....animating.

btw whats with this 13k-14k sum?


eek

Bentagon
02-16-2005, 12:30 PM
How was I not chilling? :)
You should know that a text typed on the internet can't clearly show the state of mind of the typer ;), that is, of course, if there's no cursing or smileys involved...

I was just a tiny bit upset about him stating that it was the AM guys' fault that some may have wrong ideas, while that's definitly not it.

- Benjamin

darkefire
02-16-2005, 04:02 PM
hey. this may be slightly OT where the thread's been goin, but i got a reply back from the newsletter people aboot the payment plan. Like Shawn explained, yes you CAN pay one class at a time, but each of those payments will be tacked with that $50 processing fee. the horse's mouth said " we are charged for every processed enrollment transaction, so the fee covers that expense"

Meaning those of use looking to take that route will be shelling out an additional $300 for the total life of the course. thats not the best of news, but its really peanuts compared to how much i'm already committing to taking this course.

telliott
02-16-2005, 09:12 PM
So, any further word on what time the website will start accepting applications?

skelly6
02-16-2005, 09:18 PM
Just a quick note to let you guys know that the launch time is sitll planned to be 12:01am PACIFIC STANDARD TIME on Thursdasy the 17th. woo hoo!

There's a new newsletter on the way out with more details for you guys... see you all tomorrow! Thanks again for all the support - you guys rock.

shawn ;)

zaipha
04-21-2005, 08:47 PM
I'm just starting to seriously research AM. I was kinda hoping you could take classess in succession at your own pace/schedule. For instance, if I wanted to take the first class for the first quarter, cool, and then work gets busy because we are " crunching" .... I might want to wait out the next quarter and continue the sequential class therafter when I have more time... and know I wont be working 80 hour weeks.

I was kinda hoping you could take a class for the classes sake and not per se do it in a given time period via the diploma. A diploma is nice ,but having studied elsewhere before , I'd be more into it for the actual instruction and to grow as an animator...so I'd want to take it during the months where I know I'll have free time.

I'm musing about the price.. its fair compared to what you receive and compared to simliar instruction elsewhere...but 2 grand a class really makes me think hard as I already have a great deal of student loan debt to pay back.

we'll see.

Bentagon
04-24-2005, 08:40 PM
You cŠn do that! There's no need to take each class after another immediatly. You just have to start out with class 1 and work your way up. You only need to have 3 months available, and after that, you can see whether you'll be able to continue then. If not, you can wait as long as you want before joining again. You do have to stick to the starting dates, of course. But there's no reason why you couldn't take time inbetween.

- Benjamin

Brettzies
04-25-2005, 06:16 PM
I was kinda hoping you could take a class for the classes sake and not per se do it in a given time period via the diploma. A diploma is nice ,but having studied elsewhere before , I'd be more into it for the actual instruction and to grow as an animator...so I'd want to take it during the months where I know I'll have free time.
I think a lot of people are interested in this type of situation. Maybe in the future they will have something like this. The inherint problem is money and structure though.

It sounds similar to when a professor might let you sit in on some lectures or something at a Univeristy. You aren't going to get credit for the class but you may gain some useful knowledge. In that situation, you are most likely already enrolled in the University or College, paying them a certain amount anyway.

With animation mentor, I think most people are more interested in getting the knowledge from real world production animators, then receiving the diploma or whatever they offer. So, the knowledge is the real value here, sounds funny to say that, but in this case I think it's more true then ever. They could give people a box of juicy fruit at the end and I think they would be satisfied.

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