different ways of modelling a head

[pnoland]

Well I like to model the low poly head in an outside application and then bring it into Zbrush...mainly because I'm not comfortable with Zsphere's yet. The pros to modeling in a more standard polygonal modeler is that you have more control of the lower poly version of the mesh before detailing it. That way when you go set up your UV map you can make it pretty easy on yourself. Now the pros to using Zspheres seems to be a great way to model for those who aren't the most accomplished polygon modelers...the zsphere's topology is pretty good although you'll have to make minor adjustments when you preview the mesh or turn it into an adaptive mesh. Building a character or creature using Zspheres is also a very fast way to block out a model...I'm hoping to get the swing of them more and start using them for my organic shapes.

[Roberto]

thanx for ur answer pnoland,

this is what i found out, too. Zspheres sometimes seem to conjunct in a bit unpredictable way, e.g.if two childspheres are too close to each other and i have much more control over direction and flow of edgeloops in a standard modeler. But i have to say that im rather new to Zbrush and thus not very familiar with zspheres, as well.

Another question that bothers me is the mesh resolution u choose for detailing ur head. With how many polys do u end up. Would be glad if anyone could post a wire.

[ArtofacksOne]

My thing is zbrush is fabulous , but if u drop the object u cant go back and edit there should be away the Zbrush is a 3d shape unless told, it would be nice if u can rotate and paint and use the brushes sorta like 3d paint...

I for one like doing my initial object in C4d then brining it in to zbrush to define and back to c4d ...

FYI.. I been having trouble using markers and its frustrating I had lost much info plus i tried using the markers but dont seem to use them crrectly... :( BTW i am looking for a good markers tut so i can paint then go back to 3d paint and so on.

[Kanga]

If you are using a standard 3d package for animating a face I don't see how you could get good deformation by using a model made from z spheres. The loops are just wrong. If you were animating in an app that has powerfull displacent animation possibilities like the latest Messiah then I guess you would be mad not to begin with z spheres.

[Roberto]

kanga ur right with the deformations. I meant animating the whole body what u would do with bones or CS in max not doing morphtargets.
yeah read about this displacement map technique. seems to be a great deal. but i have to admit that im not quite sure whats the advantage to working with a imported high density mesh. Never did such things before.

[Kanga]

Well the greatest advantage for me is that I can apply displacement maps and texture maps made in ZB to a medium density mesh in Max. Switch off displacement and textures and animate the mesh quickly only switching on displacement and textures at render time.

My work flow is
Medium density mesh in max with good edge flow
Import mesh as .obj (quads) into ZB
Divide .obj 3 times in ZB and detail displacement and textures
Export tool as .obj level1, texture and displacement tiffs to Max
Import .obj into max apply texture and displacement
Switch off maps
Rig
Animate
Switch on maps
Render.

I can achieve higher levels of detail with ZB than I ever could modeling.

[Roberto]

many thany for this clear statement, Kanga.

Now I understand better what this technique is good for, at least a little.
BTW which renderer do u use in Max. Read in a ZBrushCentral thread ( here's the link if u like:http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=20310&highlight=displacement+maps+renderer) that MR at least in max6 causes some banding problems due to the inability to decrease bitmap blur ( didn try it, yet) and the scanline renderers displacement is terribly slow imo.

[Kanga]

At the moment Messiah Studio seems to give the most amazing results but the GUI is a nightmare so I will be buying that one further down the road when they have got it fixed.

I use the scanline render engine in Max7. The same applies to max 6. Put a displacement modifier on top of the stack above mesh smooth. Image area click map button and load tiff. Drag from the map button over to an empty material slot and get dialogue instance? check yes. Go to output and enable color Map and give the first point on the graph a -1 value. Increase the strength factor in you displace modifier to desired. Check Use Existing Mapping under the Map dialogue. Click the Mesh Smooth Modifier in you stack leave literations 0 check literations under render values and give 3 to 4 literations at render time.

Its very goddam fast and only shows up at render time.

[Roberto]

Well thats some kind of funny,
i use max since R 2.5 now. I know about the displacement modifier, i know what it does ( on a user level, no technical stuff) and i basically know how to handle it but i really never used it. i always used the material's displacement channel with approximation modifier.

I did some quick speed comparison between scanline + MR a while ago, when i got my hands on MR

a sphere with res 64, a procedural map ( cellular, i think), 1 light shadowmapped default values, no gi or other stuff scanlinerenderer doesnt support.

As said, i used scanline with dispapprox mod and MR with Displacement shader and i think i remember MR being up to 4 times faster.

I will setup up a little test again to proof my bad memory


EDIT: Ouch, u were definitly right! The scanline renderer was much faster( SlR 33 sec - MR 3min), although i have to say that MR render was much more detailed.

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