CgTalk Daily Sketch 242: MATTE WARS 003: The Lost City

[CodeNothing]

WooT! Im giddy with excitement! :bounce:

[Garma]

cool! Tough one, gonna do this one definately

[Sir Saukund]

http://aqua.subnet.at/simon/extern/dailysketch_matte_lostcity_s.jpg

< big one > (http://aqua.subnet.at/simon/extern/dailysketch_matte_lostcity.jpg)

my first mattepainting - Every sort of critique very welcome - How would you improve this matte?
Photoshop / 2h 15min

[commodore]

Sir Saukund the smaller ver. looks great but the high-res isn't very good for 2 hrs.

[Her0d]

First post in matte wars: Photoshop, 1 hour:

http://ci.com.pl/%7Estf/gfx/lostcity_1.jpg

[embryotic]

Sir Saukund - Good work I'd say, I thought perhaps that commodore could have added some constructive criticism - I looked at some of his stuff and he's definitely skilled enough to provide some insights.

As for me – I’m not a pro at Mattes but ill try critique to help you out a bit:

So all in all I think you pull off the mood well with the lighting and colour balance - Your source footage clouds have some Jpeg burning goin’ on which isn't your fault really and isn't prevalent in the lo res post - One thing is that the horizon line between mountain and sky looks a bit too clean - the torches leading up the cliff face composite well but have an atmospheric blur surrounding them - which at the moment doesn't fit in but is perfect to solve your clean edged problem - what I mean is that if there was some kind of atmospheric noise (fog, mist etc.) across your piece with varying thickness due to depth/distance and a bit more of a feathered mountain edge - I think that it would blend everything together better adding depth and realism – also with a bit more time (though who has more time?) given to matching the snow texture at the top of the mountain – I think it would be great!

So well done – I’d like to give this a go (and then you can rip mine apart!) as I haven’t made a matte painting in so long – tho sadly I don’t think that I will find the time today

[Floriz]

http://home.hccnet.nl/floris.spronk/ffswift/floriz-thelostcity.jpgThat was fun :P 3 hours, 9 other pictures..

[Schattenman]

Salut, here is mine, 1:30h most of the time trying to cut out the city from two other pictures. By the way it is Bern the capital of switzerland.

Floriz: Really nice idea of this inka style city, looks like in a childrens book.

http://www.heuschele.com/jan/zeug/thelostcityschatten.jpg

[KOryH]

Well I can't post picture from where I am so.....
I am just going to have to blab a bit...

COLOR

VALUE

Those are the things you need to be most concerned with.

shapes are good too, but it won't matter of the color and value are off.
Look at any old matte painting masterpiece and you will always be surprised how little detail there is in those. brush strokes and scribbles are everywhere. So why do they look so damn good?

COLOR

VALUE

The problem I see with most beginning matte painting these days and with digital painting in general is the fact that the computer makes it too easy to use photo reference.
Don't just dump a photo in to another one and call it a matte painting.
Analyze the lighting and the atmosphere first. see how far you can get just by blocking in some simple shapes, but nail the COLOR and VALUE.
One way to help this is to determine the local color of the object you are painting. then determine the color of the lights affecting the scene. this will help tremendously with integration.
once you get pretty far use tints or adjustment layers to help the overall color balance and integration even more.

I hope this helps.
I will try and post a picture one of these days.
I love the Idea of these mini challenges I just wish I could upload from work.

[pulver]

My first matte painting:) I'm hapy about how it turnd out, but all critics ar welcome

1.5h in photoshop

http://jocar009.thg.se/Stad.jpg

[seryu]

Grettings!

1,30h using my old photoshop :^)

http://www.outplane.com/seryu/thelostcity.jpg


Im not really an artist, so dont expect too much quality ;-)

Best regards,
Seryu

[LightFreeze]

got lucky with my source lighting methinks
http://img125.exs.cx/img125/5771/thelostcityweb8yx.jpg


heres the full size one (http://img125.exs.cx/img125/7223/thelostcitybig1hy.jpg)

[100$=MIAU]

Wow, a lot of cool entrys here 8).
Its interessting how many different citys pop out, so here is mine:
~2.5 h Photoshop and a photo for the sky.

http://www.miau.somee.com/thelostcity_low.jpg
>> high resolution (http://www.miau.somee.com/thelostcity_high.jpg)

[KDW]

This image just wants to be changed :P


http://www.kadewski.com/2d/KDW050203_thelostcity.jpg

[Crunktastic]

This is where my matte painting would have been but tragically my work of over an hour, was lost. I can't believe I didn't save the project. I always save. Photoshop never crashes. It could happen to you. SAVE!
(writting this post has eased my pain ever so slightly.)

[Octothreat]

45 min ps and painter
http://img50.exs.cx/img50/5700/thelostcity2of.jpg

[DreamMaster]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/dm7755/mattepainting.jpg

Sorry.. it sucks :( Photoshop CS... approx. 1 hour.
It's my first mattepainting and it's A LOT harder than I thought it would be. :S I don't know why I'm submitting it. Oh well... *goes and hides in the corner*

[TedTerranova]

Kind of fun trying one of these. 1 hour photoshop.

http://www.terranovaart.com/WIPS/daily_sketch/242_lostcity.jpg

[Thany]

Here's mine: Photoshop, took me about 6 to 7 hours including time searching for additional photos on google. Had plenty of time to put this together since I'm sick and stayed home from school. Besides using Photo's I also painted.

http://thanian-nation.com/temp/lostcity.jpg

100$=MIAU: Very Nice!

[The Damned]

Hey. This is the first ever matte painting by me. Well first ever photoshop work really. Hope its ok. Good job everyone. (Photoshop 1hr 30min)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Retro90210/Studio/LostCity1.jpg

EDIT: Just added to show the view without the lame snow. Hmmm Doesnt improve really. Plus i think I've cover half the detail in shadows. Hey-ho

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Retro90210/Studio/LostCity2.jpg

[Russta]

Maybe its a defeatists attitude but doing something that is supposed to look fake rather than something that is meant to be real but looks fake is a lot easier! half an hour in photoshop
http://www.peterpans.com/gallery/albums/russpics/sketchoftheweek01.jpg

[bealobo]

I was tempted to send the photo without changes...
where is the city?... I can´t see it... well... it´s lost

whahhaha

ok, ok! I quit

:thumbsup:

[3D Freak]

About 1 hr. w/ Photoshop & Wacom........Images from the web.:)

http://www.pieschldesigns.com/images/TheLostCity-JJ.jpg

[KOryH]

OK lets try to NOT use a photo slapped on.
It's kind of a hack and not impressive.

That's not erallt what matte painters do, contrary to popular belief.
And if they do use photo elements they make the photo conform to the painting not the other way around. That and they take great reference photos .

just a thought.

[Ilikesoup]

OK lets try to NOT use a photo slapped on.
It's kind of a hack and not impressive.

That's not erallt what matte painters do, contrary to popular belief.
And if they do use photo elements they make the photo conform to the painting not the other way around. That and they take great reference photos .

just a thought.

Please stop. Most people posting in these threads have never done a matte painting before. It's fine if you want to offer specific, constructive criticism (and maybe post some of your own work?), but calling everybody hacks doesn't do anybody any good.

[3D Freak]

I agree w/ you KOryH....it's not that impressive. However under the guidelines you have to do it in a day. Personally I'm lucky if I can even squeeze in even 1 hour. What should we do... not even try? I have no experience in matte painting & very little experience using this new Wacom tablet that I just bought. I have alot of fun trying this sort of thing out & I learn alot every time I try. I see that you are a matte painter- maybe you could give us some tips. I've seen quite a bit of your work & I know you are a very talented artist...so please hook us 2D matte painting noobs up with some tips & advice- thanks.

[KOryH]

I would never call some one a hack. And that is not what I did.
I am sorry if you misunderstood.
tone is often missed in these kind of forums.
what I meant was that it is a blunt and often ineffective way to build an image.
spending 45 minutes on a "matte painting" which is nothing more than a photo collage with a filter thrown on top is not the best way to learn about creating a matte painting.

In my first post I gave some things to think about when creating a matte.
and urged not jump straight to photos. I still stand by this. especially if these are meant to be quick. Typically mate painting take days or weeks to complete. And that is by the pros.
Why would anyone expect someone who has never done one be for do it in hours?

I am all for learning and for mentorship. I offered my suggestions and opinions in good faith and in the spirit of education. i feel justified in my words by the fact that I have industry experience as a matte painter.
The last thing I want to do is allow the perception that matte painting is filters and photos be perpetuated. The sooner a young artist learns the basics and concepts behind this profession the better.

Please feel free to ask me any questions that you may have.
In the future i will try to give some more specific feedback here and in other threads.
Above all else I want people to be better artists. I will do my best to help.

thank you for your understanding.

[KOryH]

OK 3D Freak,
Of course try. I understand the problem of time in these threads.
so my suggestion would be this.
instead of trying to do a whole finished piece, try to do just a part of it.

or
a good exersize would be too see how well you can integrate some simple shapes into the source image. just take a plain gray or white tube and a cube and a sphere. and paint then into a picture.
go all out and see if you can make it look as if they are really there.
things to think about when doing this would be perspective. light color and direction.
any atmosphere and reflected light. shadows of the form and cast variety. and finally edges
soft and hard.
really look at the picture and figure out what is going on.
when you've got this down then you can start changing the local color of the objects.
By local color I mean the color an object is when it is not being affected by colored light.
then different surface qualities with the objects. try painting then really shiny or dull or even reflective. to take it even further add texture to them.
If you can do this then you can start successfully adding anything to a image. as long as you remember the basics and purpose of the matte painting in the first place.

One other thing would to just practice replacing the sky. This is a big thing in matte painting. Matte guys are always painting skies and clouds and the like.
some things to think about here is If I change the color of the sky how will this affect the ground. If I add lots of clouds how with this affect the quality of light. more clouds mean softer shadows most of the time.

Well I hope this has been constructive.
good luck on a long fun journey.

Oh and as a final thought. don't be afraid to scribble
some of the best mattes I have ever seen are total messes when you get up close to them. It is what they look like as a whole that counts. I would suggest working not zoomed in or at least have two windows open at once. One for fine detail and one pulled out so you can see how it is working all together.
In photo shop it is Window>Documents>New Document this gives you two windows of the same image that both update when you work.

OK I really am done for now.

[3D Freak]

KOryH.....I know that you weren't calling anyone hacks & I understand where you are comin' from. I feel my pic is quite cheesy looking & I would definately like some advice on what I need to change in order for it to look half way decent. So I have a few questions for you- if you don't mind.....

1) Where do I start?......Should I come up with some concepts first before I start manipulating photos & what not?

2)What is the limit of photo's I should use in a matte painting compared to actually painting the objects (for example the city & sky I used)?

3) In a previous post you spoke of Color & Value. Should I try to match the color & value of the original plate or should I change them to try & match what I'm trying to do (Like in my post I changed the overall scene to have a kind of an "orangish" tint)?

In the last few Matte Wars threads I have seen very little entries that I really like & I would really like to know how professional's do this sort of thing. Your opinions & advice would be greatly appreciated.......thanks alot- 3DF.:)

[3D Freak]

KOryH- I just saw your post........thanks for the advice & I'll definately start trying out your suggestions!:thumbsup:

[RobertoOrtiz]

Ok guys, keep it light.
We have people from all levels on these threads, hell last week we were invaded
by tweens.

On goal I have with these threads is to bring fun back to sketching, and doing art.

Later guys,
-R

[Sir Saukund]

KOryH - good thoughts - thanx and btw I asked for all criticism about mattepainting in my first post here - and I suppose that's what I needed to here

To all others - it's really fun to do this dailysketch and mattepaintingthings - and critiscism is (in my case) realy motivating - and I mean all kind of critiscism - AND most people take constructive critique (like KoryHs) as personal critique. Don't do so!

keep on sketching :thumbsup: - and keep on improving :eek: (in your personal style - :argh:).

[El-Rodente]

http://img137.exs.cx/img137/1091/thelostcity5ki.th.jpg (http://img137.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img137&image=thelostcity5ki.jpg)

best hosting i could get :(

anywhom
about an hour - photoshop

[jeroentje]

About 5 hours.

http://jeroen.cgcommunity.com/pics/thelostcity.jpg

[andersh2404]

I took a crack at it. About 2.5 hours.

http://www.2404.org/images/greetingsfrom.jpg

[pasghetti]

I'm too late aren't I? Ah well, this looked like a fun one to try out so I thought I would give 'er a go. Let's see, I used Photoshop, I images.google.com-ed someone's lovely vacation pix from Mexico, and all of it took a little under 2 hours (if you don't count their trip to Mexico)...but I think I spaced out for an unspecified amount of time somewhere in there. Let's just say 2 hrs. :-)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v713/pasghetti/donslostcity.jpg


Cheers,

don

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