Twisted extreme sports -character/environment - kokoro

[Clanger]

I know, Mammoth scrotum collecting.

[kokoro]

no - not quite. hehe.
here is another hint...

[kokoro]

i started modeling. details are missing, and he is bold... looks also a little differnt from sketch...

how is a good way to model hair ? in single strands ? and then form the hairdo with these ?

[eRaDiCaT0r]

I like the modeling so far, its lookin very refined and thought out.

LOL...clanger :beer:

verry phalic lookin hehe... and on his other hand a knife, barbers blade nah... (shivers at the thought) Stone age Animal Castrator Hunter!!! j/k :beer:

[BrainFaucet]

Good start! Keep up the good work!

[kokoro]

thanks BrainFaucet and eRaDiCaT0r. no it is not cruel in this way.

hint: "ascot"

[kokoro]

the thing he has in his left hand is just a big bone. nothing to worry about.

ok, update. modeled arms and slightly enhanced the face

hint: the sabletoothtiger is in "action pose"

[Satyricon]

Hello kokoro. Very nice modelling you have here! I' ll keep an eye on this one!!! Keep up the good work:thumbsup:

[kokoro]

had some time to work on his cloth and the legs. the feet look strange from this point of view ???:thumbsdow

[Satyricon]

Very sweet!:bounce: Good work my friend!:thumbsup: Maybe if you render from another angle the legs will show fine! Catch you later:wavey:

[Mangled Poly]

may i make a crit the toes look a little wierd add some polys in them to make them more round! but that head model is awesome i really like the skirt!

[kokoro]

Satyricon - yes they did in my preview render. i will see how they look in final pose . and i try to make them more round...

Mangled Poly - of course you may crit ! i can only learn from that. thank you. i will try to make the toes more round. glad you like the head. i am kind of proud of this. first head which does not look like a monster ;)

i tried today modeling the hair. but all looked really crap. i dont even want to show you. so - does anyone know how to model hair ? or where i can find a tut for that ? please help. i really cannot do this.

so frustrated from the hair i startet the sabletooth tiger. very early stage....

;)

[Satyricon]

Hello Kokoro! Which program do you use? Maybe I can give you more info if you tell me. Check out the reply I give you in my thread for more info on hair.:thumbsup: See you buddy!
By the way the sabretooth is evolving really nice!!! Keep it up mate!!!:bounce:

[kokoro]

satyricon - thank you. yes i checked your reply in your thread. i tried something like building a cap in form of the hair and then put in the strands... and i tried to model single strands and put them in correct form. the cap-approach was slightly better.

i do not have lightwave :annoyed:

just hash´s animationmaster. the modeler is based on patches. there are no functions like bevel or so. you have to do all these things "by hand":hmm:
it would be great if you could help me. i will try to do what you said in your thread by now...

[Satyricon]

Hello again Kokoro! :) Here is a URL I found that has 3D made with AnimationMaster. http://www.sun-inet.or.jp/~matsuike/eng_gallery_2.html.

I also post a pic from the same URL that shows a character with polygon hair. Then the artist applied a bump map to it. Easy and good technique!!!:thumbsup:

[Satyricon]

And a KILLER website for animation master. LOTS OF TUTORIALS!!!!!

www.hash.com/sherwood/index.asp

[Satyricon]

Me again, SORRY!!! Just want to help:) Just check out this URL www.pages.drexel.edu/~nl22/freebies/hairs/hairs.htm

Everything you need!

[kokoro]

wow !!:bounce:
thank you satyricon :wip: :wip: :wip:

great ! I will check these ! i know sherwood forest, but the others are knew to me - will start soon. hope to show you soon a superbe hairdo - hehe

again, thanks for your effort.

[kokoro]

and here my 5th hairdo - i wont show you the previous one though - hehe
hope you like it - is there something i could improve ?

also fixed the toe problem - well on his right foot only by now

[kokoro]

big view of hairdo

[kokoro]

frontview

[kokoro]

and i worked a little on my sabre tiger - head is missing - poor devil

[Delapouite]

Yeah good job ! You're plenty of skills !!:applause: But your modeler doesn't seem to be so good as you especially in smoothing. It doesn't matter for this challenge but what about trying another soft if you try another attempt in another challenge ? This is just a small crit but follow this way ! I'm sure the Flinstone famility would love it if they'd had computer and internet in stoneage ;) !

[Satyricon]

Great modeling my friend!!!:applause: The character is very very nice and the hair fits him like a suit!!:thumbsup: And what can I say about the sabretooth? Wish I had modeled it!! Very good buddy!!!

[kokoro]

thank you satyricon - i could only do the hair because of your advise:beer:

P.Delapouite - yes i know what you mean. the flaw at the cheek for example. i will do this in the latest stadium of modeling. unfortunately - i cannot afford another modeler:annoyed:

[kokoro]

started on the tiger head

[kokoro]

and frontview - colors are preliminary

[Clanger]

Looking wild and a little flintstone like, which is no bad thing.

Personally I wouldn't curve the teeth so much.

[Satyricon]

Hello again Kokoro!!! The sabretooth is coming along very nice!!!:beer: Maybe the teeth should not be so curved. But it's your model and I like it anyway!!!:buttrock:

[kokoro]

clanger and satyricon - yeah you are right. i will make the teeth more straight, otherwise he could not use them too good. hehe. which would be good for our sportsman... :hmm:

will try to finish tiger today, and then rigging.... may be you can guess the sport then, when i posed man and tiger... :shrug:

clanger - i intended to go a little in the flintstone style direction. so glad you noticed :)

[kokoro]

and here is the tiger. only his innermouth and tongue is missing.:thumbsup:

[kokoro]

i boned the tigre. and tried to pose him. but the mesh is squizing a little, needs some more tweaking...
hope to show you tomorrow a nw hint, so that you can restart guessing;)

[YoGoLo]

modeling advice : the toppest claws (griffes ?) of the anterior paws are not well include (I think)
U should make a bump (or hump... in french : bosse ou excroissance) to mean that there is a bone behind the skin where the claw is fixed up.

little detail I know :)

the pose is good !
go on !
:bounce:

[kokoro]

YoGolo - oh i did not know that. have to have a closer look to my reference material. thanks !

[kokoro]

now come on guessing:wip:

shouldnt be too difficult by now...

[Satyricon]

Kokoro this is GREAT!!!! The models kick ass!!!!:beer: Is your sport some kind of prehistoric polo? (I think not):bounce:

[kokoro]

no not polo - but you are close :p in some sense -

[kokoro]

update...

[espaki]

great style and very dynamic:bounce:

could it be some sort of hunting?

:buttrock:

-Nate

[dodo3d]

I think it's some kind of fighting.... am I right?
still a great work :beer:

[kokoro]

espaki - no not hunting - and dodo3d - well any sport is somesort of fight is it not ?
think more directly ... well i think my next post will completely clarify:rolleyes:

[Satyricon]

Hello Kokoro! Your work is coming along very very NICE:bounce: The last render you posted has the ambience of a cartoon about prehistoric x-treme guys!!!! Great job mate!!!!:bounce:

[Erik]

great job, i like the concept and the beast are beautiful... :bounce:

[YoGoLo]

hmmm...
I think that it's look like some horse riding... with the beef to make the tiger runnig faster...
Am I right ??

[kokoro]

thanks - erik

and yogolo - you are pretty close with guessing - but according to rule number 1 i am not allowed to say ... hehe

now here is how i think of the final composition. needs some - and some more - tweaking though

[OZ]

:applause: HA HA HA!!!SWEET!i love ur concepts a lot!the tiger is great!It remind me the ICE AGE tigers!I like the modeling too and the pose of ur models is very dynamic.I have only one tiny crit.Pay a little mofr attention on tiger's toe...Is a grat model...and deserve a little more on toe!!:)

So......Keep it up! :buttrock:

[kokoro]

-oz- - thanks for your feedback. yes the toes are definitely on my todo-list ! i didnot see ice-age but i saw the advertizing of course, and yes he inspired me ;)

[catbells007]

Coming along very nicely! :thumbsup:

[kokoro]

minor update. started working on my todo-list. first the toe thingies, and a tongue for tigre.

[Mr. Cadillac]

Dude, you are a speed demon! I dunno how you do so much so fast!


I like the characters, they have a real kinda dopey Fred Flintstone sorta look to them...

I think the basic layout you've got for your final shot is good, but I might push the pose on the human (pre human?) characters a little more... they look a little static on the backs of these real dynamic lookin' beasts...

('course my own character's pose is still "crucified" and I only have one not four...)

Impressive!

[kokoro]

Mr. Cadillac - hehe - we always like nice words ! thanks. but i am not that speedy - i only started early - ;)

Originally posted by Mr. Cadillac
... but I might push the pose on the human (pre human?) characters a little more... they look a little static on the backs of these real dynamic lookin' beasts...

what do you mean by that ? i am confused. :shrug:

i think there are 2 extreme poses for fast (horse) riding.

one is that of a jockey. he is nearly standing in the saddle and leaning far over the neck of the horse. but this is useless for me, since in stoneagetime they did not have saddle. and you need the saddle strips for standing in them.

the other extreme is how indians ride their ponies without any saddle. they nearly sit straight up - even on fast riding - and press their thighs against the pony to stay on it. the calfs are free for kicking the pony for getting higher speed. their hands are laso free besides a rope they are holding. i tried to capture this kind of pose from my reference material.

do you mean i should go more in the jockey direction ? because this is more dynamic ?

also i thought i exaggerate the poses a little for extra funny. the tiger poses are a little more than a tiger would do so i think thats why they look so dynamic. and i thought the stonies should really sit like the indians to make a funny contrast...

oops - quite a long one. i better stop ...

[Mr. Cadillac]

I was thinking more like a bronc rider in a rodeo... The way the lead tiger is posed reminds me of a bronco bucking (GREAT pose btw) I just think the rider should be shifting his weight rearward to compensate for that.


The rear character is (on second look when I'm not posting at 3 am) posed very well I think, but the camera doesn't show it off to maximum effect. I might try turning the camera a bit to towards the side view to accentuate the silouettes of both characters.



I hope I didn't offend you with my critique. I really like your stuff. You can trade punches with me and come tear my character apart if you like. I'd love to get some feedback.

[haim]

nice and brutal :wip:

[kokoro]

Mr Cadillac - i see now what you mean. but bronco riding is not what i had in mind. but you have a point with the weight. i will consider that. and also tra the camera shifting... will see. thanks for your help ! i am not (!!!) offended by your critique, but glad it came. so i can improve my work.

haim - brutal ? well - not more than what i saw in other threads. hehe. anyway, thanks for dropping by.

[Finkster]

Hi kokoro,
thats a sweet style you have there. I especially like the tigers.
I think that the faces of the characters could use some smoothing though. Try to get your splines as equally distanced as possible. I'll usually tweak a face mesh for hours using the '4' ang '6' keys until it's smooth to my liking. Maybe you could post a wireframe of the face mesh?

Good luck!

[kokoro]

finkster - i tried already pushing the vertices - but was not too successful. here have a look at the meshes...

[kokoro]

sideview

[kokoro]

and the second guy - which i obtained from the first by changing a little...

[kokoro]

and his sideview.

[Mr. Cadillac]

Ah yes, I used to have the dreaded "lumpy mesh" too...

There are two ways to deal with it...

One is patience... Spend about 15-20 hrs tweaking the mesh and getting it as close to perfect as possible..

The other better way is polycount... The easiest way to make a mesh smoother is to use less polys... Much easier to weight and texture the final product also.

I don't know what package you use, but , if your software supports it, you might consider doing sub-d modeling too. I'm a big fan of sub-d, so much easier to work with.

[kokoro]

mr. cadillac - i am using animation master. this is a patch modeler only. so i do not have a choice. yes i will spent much more time on the meshes...
on the poly count. well i think this corresponds to patch count. and i think it is reasonable.

[Mr. Cadillac]

ahh...presumptive of me to assume you were poly modeling...Sorry. I'm out of my league when it comes to patch models... Nurbs scare me!

[Satyricon]

Hello Kokoro!!! Your creations do have a unique style and sweetness!!! Man, you should get into Lightwave or Maya!!!:beer: See you later buddy!!!:thumbsup:

[Virtuoso]

All in all this is quite an interesting show you have put on Kokoro..............a good action sequence,and let me tell you, animation master is quite the underated program,I have played with it in the past.

Just give some more detail here and there,added props etc,etc... to add flesh to the overall scene and it will turn out to be something quite nice..................:thumbsup:

[Finkster]

Hi kokoro!
I've highlighted some changes which you could make to smooth out the mesh a little. move the vertices along the selected spline using '4'.
http://home.earthlink.net/~emol/images/Heads/headchanges.gif
Remember when spline modelling to try and make the splines as equally spaced as possible and to make changes in spline density as continuous as possible. Try zooming up close to your model, move around a seleted vertices and tweak it until it's spline is very close in shape to those on either side of it i.e. smooth continuous changes.
There are more fundamental ideas, which you should try to use next time you model a head. Try to model with concentric splines, radiating from the eyes and mouth. Here is an example I am working on now:
http://home.earthlink.net/~emol/images/Heads/headmeshes.jpg
This still needs some tweaking around the mouth as described above, but should give you a good idea what I'm talking about.
Obviously your characters are more of a cartoon style, but the same fundamental principles apply and will help to eliminate many of the problems in your model e.g. circled area where front and side of face meet. This technique will also help you loads when you come to animating or even just posing your faces.
Here's a tutorial you might want to try:
face tutorial video (http://www.shimmyo.com/face_tute.php)

Hope I've been able to help some :)

P.S. the hair on your characters really rocks:buttrock:
Keep updating!

[Finkster]

Satyricon: Sure he could get into Maya or Lightwave (got a few thousand dollars lying around kokoro?), but why not try to master the program he's using right now. With practice and experiance he could produce models as good as those made with Maya or lightwave. Then later, he would have a substantial leg up on the basics of modelling, should he have an opportunity use those programs.

Later.:wavey:

[kokoro]

hello alltogether.

Finkster - i was trying smoothing out my meshes a little, worked nearly 10 hours on them, will show you the result tomorrow - i first want to check if i did all what you propose ! Thanks very much. you model picts help a lot.

Virtuoso - thanks for coming by to visit my thread ! much honor for me. - hm - yeah animation master has some good points, posing and animation tools are quite good. the renderer is quite awful though. but your encouragement pushes me forward. i will think of more props...

Satyricon - unfortenuately i do not have the money for those. well i have to stick with animation master. and i think its also the idea which counts , not only the tool.

will bring updates tonight, or tomorrow hopefully.:wip:

[Satyricon]

You are absolutely right my friend. It's always the idea that counts!!! The software comes second. I hope to see more of your excelent work soon Kokoro!!!!:beer:

[kokoro]

satyricon - yeah, the software comes second. and may be one day... ok here are what i did.

i worked on the faces.

finkster - your advices were very valueable for me. i improved the meshes according to your tips. and i am very eager to try modeling a new head with the different layout of splines !!

[kokoro]

i also added details to the scene

[kokoro]

... and tried out a toon render. please tell me what you think about this. i like the more definite due to the lines, but otherwise i like the other better. what´s your opinion ?

[Adam3da]

I like your work a lot and the toon rener suits your stlye wayy better although mabe its just me but there seems to be a line running throught the front tigers head.

[Delapouite]

Yeah same opinion as Adam3da: i rather prefer the pic with the toon shader.:cool:

[kokoro]

Adam3da and P.Delapouite - thanks for your opinion. then i think i will do the toon shader in the final image. its takes awfully long to render....

also, since the blond stony has such a dreamy look, i had an idea. may be he has a vision....

the vision needs some more detail of course...

[Virtuoso]

Toon shader all the way........As for the dreamy vision...........Maybe a vision of your blonde creation holding up the victory trophy. dreaming of his up-coming victory???

;)

All in all a fun and interesting concept Kokoro,keep up the good work and the overall good concepts and ideas.........:beer:

[Finkster]

kokoro: hey, glad I could help you out, your face model definitely looks a lot nicer. And your scene is looking really sweet! :thumbsup: I really like the toon render, but whichever version you prefer, go for it!
If you try modelling a head using the new layout of splines, you might want use less dense splines that the example I showed, until you get the hang of the technique. The more splines, often makes smoothing more time consuming.

Good luck!

[kokoro]

thank you again Finkster - you really helped a lot.

i deleted the "vision" thing. Virtuoso - i tried kind of a pocal, but i now think a vision destroys part of the dynamic feel of the pict. the lines are broken, and the view is directed off from the topic... may be i am wrong.

yes i am going for toon render - i tried out several settings. which one do you like better ?
this ?

[kokoro]

or this ?

[OZ]

tHE SECOND ARE NEAR TO BE PERFECT!!:buttrock: tHER U ARE!

[fellah]

the first one looks to much like a painting imo, so I would go for the second render style. much better then the previous ones.

I also had some problems to see what the first guy was holding in his right hand. I think it's mainly because of the way he holds the stick. pick up a stick of your own and see how you would hold it in his position.
also, I assume the thing on the stick should be some kinda meat? if, then make the color more red with some white in it.

and maybe change the first guys eyes(and rotate the head a little) to look back(so he can see where his opponent is)

and maybe some dust under the creatures feets.

just some ideas, you're doing a great work so far anyway,
take care
// fellah

[Apt Pupil]

Hey, very nice work!! I love the toon shading style (the second one). I certainly agree with what fellah said, and also add this, the back tiger and man seem to be staring somewhere off into the horizon, I hope later, you will change the direction of their heads and eyes to monitor the race track and opponent ahead. Otherwise, it's coming along well.

keep em coming:beer:

[kokoro]

arghh - the server back up just killed all what i have written.

ok once again.

thank you all for voting between the picts.

oz - thank you - i always like compliment.

fellah - thank you for your cc. i will try to improve the hand, enhance the meat (yes - it is supposed to be meat - actually a t-bone steak :rolleyes: )
i will also try the dust. never did this before - so have to find out how the plugin is working...
i think will not let the first one look back - i want to show that he is very selfconfident. he "knows" he will win, because he is cheating with the meat. so there is no reason for him to look back...

apt pupil - nice to meet you too here. i will go for your advise letting the second guy look to the track and opponent. its more what he should do when trying to win..

only i hope i find enough time to do all this. i am quite busy in the moment. hope to see you soon :wip:

[kokoro]

ok, here it is. only the dust seem not to render with toon shading :thumbsdow

need to find out if that my mistake...

[Virtuoso]

Don't listen to OZ,Fellah, and Apt pupil........what do they know.........................;) :p ........................Well actually everything.............:applause: ....................I just wanted to add that I like the overall concept,this is one of the better extreme sports,a real extreme sport. Good job Kokoro..............:beer:

[fellah]

much better :thumbsup:
I would make the meat a little bigger to, but you decide.. much better then before :thumbsup:

take care
// fellah

[kokoro]

virtuoso - hehe i did not hear completely to them ... just what they say were goog. thank you for your kind word - fromyou they are very valuable for me.

fellah - nice to see you again. yes i also like it much better. thanks for the good critique. - i will not make the meat bigger - you know the tiger has to stay slim to run fast the next time ;)


i now managed to get the dust, was a pain, but i think it was worth. i made it only subtle did not want too much.

so this is final image.

[img]people.freenet.de/fiebig/twistedextremesportfinal.jpg[\img]

[kokoro]

virtuoso - hehe i did not hear completely to them ... just what they say were goog. thank you for your kind word - fromyou they are very valuable for me.

fellah - nice to see you again. yes i also like it much better. thanks for the good critique. - i will not make the meat bigger - you know the tiger has to stay slim to run fast the next time ;)


i now managed to get the dust, was a pain, but i think it was worth. i made it only subtle did not want too much.

so this is final image.

http://people.freenet.de/fiebig/twistedextremesportfinal.jpg

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