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DanSilverman
01-27-2005, 02:50 PM
Maybe this is old news, but I thought it was good information in a short format:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145561,00.html

midknight3
01-27-2005, 09:21 PM
Disney Feature Animation came to my school today. They plan on making only Pixar sequels at the Toy Story 3 Studio. Horrible. All of their upcoming films except for Rapunzel and American Dog look average. They won't be able to touch Pixar on any level until at least Rapunzel.

Matt Leishman
01-27-2005, 09:36 PM
If you were an out of work animator/TD, would you turn down a job at this particular disney studio because its only doing pixar sequels and not working on new properties?

I didn't think so.

Lets just be happy that more work is being made available to so many incredilble artists who will most likely be able to make the films as beautiful as anyone else.

PokeChop
01-27-2005, 09:53 PM
Amen to the post above...

Gentrifier
01-27-2005, 10:00 PM
No, Sithwarlord, the list of reasons not to take a job at Disney is a lot longer than that....

Gentrifier.

Matt Leishman
01-27-2005, 10:18 PM
Well Gentrifier,
you and I obviously have severe differences in our priorities. Where I come from working is better than not working. period.

I don't know what your reasons are (apparently the list is too long to type out), but all I can interperet from your post is that you feel that disney is ruining walt's legacy with all the "cheapquels" etc, etc. We've all heard it before. Well, like i said, the bottom line for me is that I'm willing to look beyond that truth/swallow my pride and take a job if it were offered so I can feed my family and pay my bills.

difference in priorities.

Capel
01-27-2005, 10:26 PM
Sithwarlord: I totally agree with you, and i'd be willing to bet any amount of money that if Disney called up Gentrifier and offered him a job, he'd piss his pants with glee and gladly take it. Saying that you won't work somewhere because of their creative choices as a studio only says that you're probably too prideful to work with anyway.

I hate to break it to you, Gentrifier, but odds are, a lot of the projects you end up working on, you're not gonna' agree with in every way creatively. Animators at Disney understand that this is just the nature of the industry. The idea here is to be grateful that you are actually making a living doing what you love.

I could understand if your post had to do with, say.... Electronic Arts, cuz they're a freakin' sweatshop and they don't respect their employees. Those are valid reasons to not want to work somewhere.

I'm as big a fan of Pixar as the next guy, but COME ON! They're not the ONLY studio in town! Sure, they're the best right now, arguably, but that doesn't mean we should just shit all over anyone else that is trying to do the same thing! Pull your head out of your ass and be grateful that these studios are still surviving and supplying jobs to the people in this country!

....ok, i'm done. :)

Gentrifier
01-27-2005, 10:37 PM
Actually, Sithwarlord, I don't have a problem with Disney making any movies they want to. I don't think the Walt Disney legacy is as precious as all that. It's just that I've worked in the industry long enough now to know I'd not work for Disney unless there was absolutely nothing better out there. I agree that it's important to stay working, but I'd certainly not pee my pants with glee if Disney called me.
I have nothing against Disney, per se. I just have friends who work at Disney and have a number of friends who used to work at Disney, and based on what they've told me, it isn't my cup of tea.

You can have back the words you were trying to put in my mouth. Thanks, but I don't need 'em.

- Edit -
Oh, and, Capel, read my post first, or learn the English language. All I said was that there were a number of other reasons I'd not work for Disney. If I thought you knew what you were talking about, I'd continue....
- End Edit -

Gentrifier.

beaker
01-27-2005, 10:50 PM
As I always say, everyone works everywhere. People are always like "The animators at Pixar are much better than the ones at Dreamworks" blah, blah, blah and so on and so fourth. Which is total BS because many of the people at one company are the same at another 2 years later. People are only hired these days on a per project bases and Pixar is all at will hires(people can leave anytime they want). Pixar people work at Dreamworks, Disney people work at Pixar, etc..... It's all the same people.

Disney is hiring up many ex-Pixar employees to work on TS3. The Animation Supervisor on TS3 was an animation supervisor at Pixar. The director is also rumored to also be an ex-Pixar employee. The production quality of this movie will be just fine, it's really now just the story which will be the deciding factor.

AWAKE
01-27-2005, 11:00 PM
Actually, Sithwarlord.....
You can have back the words you were trying to put in my mouth. Thanks, but I don't need 'em.



Hmmm... that reminds me of my favorite movie http://tinyurl.com/4v2u2

mummey
01-27-2005, 11:00 PM
If you were an out of work animator/TD, would you turn down a job at this particular disney studio because its only doing pixar sequels and not working on new properties?

I didn't think so.

Lets just be happy that more work is being made available to so many incredilble artists who will most likely be able to make the films as beautiful as anyone else.

Quoted for agreement...

If my choices were a) Let my skills rot, or b) work for the company with one of the longest animation legaciesof anywhere on the planet; I think the decision does not seem so controversal as some would like it to appear.

kujo79
01-27-2005, 11:18 PM
I could understand if your post had to do with, say.... Electronic Arts, cuz they're a freakin' sweatshop and they don't respect their employees. Those are valid reasons to not want to work somewhere.



I think there has been enough bashing of EA dont u? Not all EA studios operate like this. I definitly agree that in the most ideal of situation no one should work on something not too exciting or worst, be overworked. But we all work in an industry with such high standards that it would be possible to get the results without rackin the hours. But again folks, the keyword here is "work". Some of us lucky ones should be gratefull we have jobs, at EA, Disney or other places producing animation.



Disney is hiring up many ex-Pixar employees to work on TS3. The Animation Supervisor on TS3 was an animation supervisor at Pixar. The director is also rumored to also be an ex-Pixar employee. The production quality of this movie will be just fine, it's really now just the story which will be the deciding factor.




Well said. Please people do not mistake a bad story with bad work. As far as I know Disney's Animation is priceless. They have just unfortunatly been less selective of their scripts. This can change at anytime. Pixar could make a bad film while Disney makes an oscar nominee, and everyone will be back to remember what great work came out of that studio.

Shaderhacker
01-28-2005, 12:01 AM
I absolutely agree with the above posters.

There are many people that work or have worked at other studios. The film industry is quite small..

Btw, Rapunzel is the greatest thing I've seen coming out as a animated feature than anything currently out or have come out. All it takes is one movie to reset the bar..:)

-M

mmkelly011881
01-28-2005, 12:17 AM
OffTopic - Where is everyone getting their Rapunzel information from? I've only seen a few small images of concept work. I hope Mr. Keane is getting the creative control he deserves.

BackOnTopic - Yes, it sucks that Disney is lacking in creative writing lately and Yes i would still work for them and Yes I will probably see Toy Story 3 no matter what.

LaVolpe
01-28-2005, 12:51 AM
For those who say they'd jump at the chance to work at Disney:

On the one hand, it's a good additude to be willing to take any industry jobs to keep you goin or get your foot in the door.

On the other hand, it's not without reason that people are cautious about working with them. As many of you know, Disney has a way of taking a very artistic process ( making animated films ) and creating them in a very non artistic ways. Amongst the practices Disney has been known to engage in:

1. Working employees into the ground
2. Picking the brightest talent out of art schools and using them only in the most menial of tasks, regardless of the strengths of their portfolios for which they were alledgedly chosen.
3. Having policies in place that discourage any hope of moving up within the company.
4. Using commitees of businessmen to make what would normally be major artistic decisions, which generally has the effect of watering down even the most brilliant idea.

I personally know some very talented people who went through the disney meat grinder and are still trying to recover. Don't forget that working night and day in the One True Disney Style leaves little room for artistic growth and exploration. At the end of your time you may find yourself artistically frustrated and with only a handful of in betweens from semi-successful movies to show for it...

Now, granted, that's only one perspective, and I'm sure there's many happy artists working for them at this very moment. And, hopefully, they'll take some of the decision-by-committee out of their movies in the future...

However, right now, I'd share the scepticism of whats his name earlier on the thread..

just another opinion...

Capel
01-28-2005, 01:49 AM
All I said was that there were a number of other reasons I'd not work for Disney.

and those reasons are?

-dc-
01-28-2005, 06:20 AM
I hadn't seen any of what Disney was working on until Siggraph last year, and then they floored me. Both artistically and technically they are really raising the bar, and hopefully the story department will follow suit and everything will sync up into place again.

I've heard nothing but good things from friends who currently work at Disney. They are paid well, get overtime, and enjoy a comfortable work enviornment. They also are not living in fear of their jobs...

The fact that they are opting for Pixar people for supervisory positions shows that they are serious about competing and want to stay on top. The studio in question is actually a new studio from what I hear. They're making an entire division dedicated to just doing the sequels. It's going to be their job to continue to put out content for children who want to see toy story 3, 4, 5 and 10...Pixar sold them on the great story, and the kids will continue to enjoy the characters regardless of the quality. Even a subpar story would probably work in this case.

I hope they do well enough to justify making more films, it's good for the industry and helps create healthy competiton between studios. One more place to work in town is never a bad thing...

DanSilverman
01-28-2005, 06:51 AM
Isn't this way off topic? This thread was NOT titled "Would You Work at Disney?" This thread was about the problems that Disney is having with Toy Story 3.

For example, I knew that Disney had the right to continue making movies for Toy Story, The Incredibles, etc, but I did not know that Disney did not have any of the graphical assets (i.e. they would have to recreate all the models, etc). Secondly, I think that people see Pixar as a good company and one that they don't want to cross. Therefore, it seems that no one is will to touch Toy Story ... not Disney. It is not necessarily Disney that is the rotten egg (so to speak), but the assets that are so closely linked to Pixar.

go go go
01-28-2005, 07:08 AM
AWAKE: a tinyurl? you really are a nerd. :applause:

Wilson-3d
01-28-2005, 02:25 PM
Hi. Over all I want everyone to do good. More jobs for us. Sequels were in the Disney/Pixar contract. In a biography about Steve Jobs it mentions that he did not show as much attention to his Pixar venture until the first major publicity event that Disney did for Toy Story 1. He saw a huge cut out (or something like that) of Woody and Buzz and all the hype and fame and started hanging around at Pixar more often. I think he is great and hey- he had the foresight to buy it form Lucas and turn it into a great thing- so more power to him. I just think at the time he did not realize how attached they would become to the characters. Suddenly it is like they are sending their kids to live with foster parents(I am assuming this part). So some people want Disney to flop on TS3. Of coarse they are going to make sequels. I think their original new stuff looks really promising and think Chicken Little is going to be a lot funnier then some people may think. Anyway that is my ramble. I think there is enough room in the pond for both and then some.

beaker
01-28-2005, 06:21 PM
1. Working employees into the groundAll my friends there only work 9-5. All overtime has to be approved. When you do work overtime they pay for it handsomly. Over 8 hours a day is 1.5x and over 12 hours is 2x, Saturday is automatic 1.5x and Sunday/your 7th day in a row working is 2x.

I know some Disney people that get spoiled and forget what being worked to the ground is. All of a sudden working a 10-12 hour day hard day. :)
2. Picking the brightest talent out of art schools and using them only in the most menial of tasks, regardless of the strengths of their portfolios for which they were alledgedly chosen.ALL companies do this. It's called "paying your dues". If you are new to the industry, you will be doing crap work, getting paid crap, and working longer hours then everyone else because you don't know anything and it takes you 2x as long as everyone else to do stuff. If you expect to be animating main characters right out of school then you have unrealistic expectations. Students need to get their heads out of their arses and understand that nothing is free and no one is going to hand you stuff on a golden platter. Stop bitchin and pay your dues.
3. Having policies in place that discourage any hope of moving up within the company.They can't do this atleast in the animation department. Disney is part of the union and there are rules they have to follow. People can move up just fine, but as it is everywhere, moving up is political. You have to be social and get to know everyone and play their game. If you just want to sit in the corner and only work and never go to social events or meetings, then your never going to move up. I only mention this because I know people who have complained about not being promoted up but they never put any effort into getting there. People are not going to promote you just because you have many years of experience.

LaVolpe
01-30-2005, 10:10 PM
All my friends there only work 9-5. All overtime has to be approved. When you do work overtime they pay for it handsomly. Over 8 hours a day is 1.5x and over 12 hours is 2x, Saturday is automatic 1.5x and Sunday/your 7th day in a row working is 2x.

I know some Disney people that get spoiled and forget what being worked to the ground is. All of a sudden working a 10-12 hour day hard day. :)


As I said, I don't doubt there's perfectly happy people there, as well as disgruntled people ( just like anywhere). In my admittedly limited experience of people that I know personally, as well as people I've interviewed who have worked at both studios, A great many of them come out feeling burned out and frustrated. I'm glad your friends are happy there, and managed to avoid the lay offs.




ALL companies do this. It's called "paying your dues". If you are new to the industry, you will be doing crap work, getting paid crap, and working longer hours then everyone else because you don't know anything and it takes you 2x as long as everyone else to do stuff. If you expect to be animating main characters right out of school then you have unrealistic expectations. Students need to get their heads out of their arses and understand that nothing is free and no one is going to hand you stuff on a golden platter. Stop bitchin and pay your dues.


No, fortunately all companies do not do this, becaus it's called " not very smart ". Clearly, artists right out of school will need to start from the ground up, and earn the right to work on higher profile shots. I did this when I started in the industry, and now I make new hires do this. Having said that, The purpose of having such a thorough and aggressive recruiting effort is to find fresh young talent, and apply them to places in your company that would be mutually beneficial. Putting promising young young artists on barely related taks that any intern could easily do ( and should be doing ) for years so that they can ' pay their dues ' is a good way to disenfranchise your talent and probably accounts for the high turnover rate at similarly run companies.



They can't do this atleast in the animation department. Disney is part of the union and there are rules they have to follow. People can move up just fine, but as it is everywhere, moving up is political. You have to be social and get to know everyone and play their game. If you just want to sit in the corner and only work and never go to social events or meetings, then your never going to move up. I only mention this because I know people who have complained about not being promoted up but they never put any effort into getting there. People are not going to promote you just because you have many years of experience.


Well, I'll have to take your word for this one, as I am not familiar with Union Regulations nor the Disney social scene. Sadly, being able to 'play ball' is the norm for many larger companies, and undoubtably alot of talent gets overlooked because of it.

To bring things back a little bit closer to the topic, with TS3 ( and 4, as I understand it ) ramping up soon, there's likely to be some lower level jobs opening up. And anyone coming out of school would be lucky to get an internship or first job there. Just be aware that it's not all sunshine and roses there ( or anywhere, naturally ). And since someone reading this thread would see alot of pro-disney posts with not alot of info, I thought I'd contribute a little food for thought.
well, there you have it.
__________________

MacDuff
01-31-2005, 12:13 AM
I think this is a bad idea simply because Pixar already has an idea for Toy Story 3 and any other story from anyone else wouldn't sit right with me. I heard rumors of Disney making Toy Story 4 as well, which is also wrong since Pixar's TS3 would have ended the series.

Shaderhacker
01-31-2005, 07:02 PM
I think this is a bad idea simply because Pixar already has an idea for Toy Story 3 and any other story from anyone else wouldn't sit right with me. I heard rumors of Disney making Toy Story 4 as well, which is also wrong since Pixar's TS3 would have ended the series.

Pixar isn't in total control of the sequels. They already mentioned not doing anymore sequels for Disney so now Disney has sole rights to the sequels. There is no "right" or "wrong" in this. Pixar passed the buck to Disney and they are doing it their way.

-M

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