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Kaiser_Sose
09-10-2002, 02:06 PM
Is there a more interactive knife tool out there, one that does not make only strait cuts

Lets say you were building some animals leg and you wanted add some definition to it by cutting all the way down following the contour from the hip to the feet. With the knife tool you have to do it one block at a time cause it only cuts straight lines, with the free edge tool you can more or less do it but than I get those subdivision errors unless I triple the cut polygons

Maybe, its just ok to triple it all, but I thought you were supposed to avoid this

LNT
09-10-2002, 02:39 PM
you can use bandsaw kaiser
(even on your own legs,it adds great definiton :) )

Kaiser_Sose
09-10-2002, 02:47 PM
Not really sure, I have not used it before

With bandsaw will the added polygons follow the contour of the leg

LNT
09-10-2002, 02:51 PM
it'll go all the way up or down until it hits a non-quad

spend some time with it,it's a very friendly tool

there's no tutorial on it btw :(

Kaiser_Sose
09-10-2002, 03:04 PM
Thanks

I just played with it for a second and it seems to be the closest thing to what I am looking for

It follows the contour by just cutting everything in half

There are lots of options with it, they dont seem to add much to it

Steve Warner
09-10-2002, 03:33 PM
You can also look at Edge Tools. That will give you all the control you need.

Joril
09-10-2002, 03:57 PM
with the free edge tool you can more or less do it but than I get those subdivision errors unless I triple the cut polygons

You need to select the surrounding polygons aswell, because you need to add points to their edges aswell. Otherwise the polygon on which you added the edge wil no longer be connected (charing an edge) with the surrounding polygon.
(try moving the added vertex if you want proof)
Always make sure you're working with quads and tris.

UnrealSnowman
09-10-2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Steve Warner
You can also look at Edge Tools.
When are you going to update your tutorial page.. I really enjoyed the ones there right now, but the more the better.

Great Tutorials!!:thumbsup:

Chewey
09-10-2002, 04:48 PM
Here is a sequence of jpegs that illustrates a method for adding geometry. Looks slow but it's quite easy and pretty quick once you get the hang of it. It is a bit of an old school brute force approach. Some have reported seeing Taron employ this technique during his modeling exhibitions at public shows. It's basically a ripping open of a seam and patching it back up with extra polys.

btw, I just used this geometry as it was handy, the additional geometry I'm showing doesn't add anything that makes sense to this particular model. (what did you want for nothin?)

Chewey
09-10-2002, 04:50 PM
step 2

Chewey
09-10-2002, 04:52 PM
step 3

Chewey
09-10-2002, 04:53 PM
step 4

Chewey
09-10-2002, 04:54 PM
step 5

Chewey
09-10-2002, 04:56 PM
step 6

Chewey
09-10-2002, 04:59 PM
step 7

Chewey
09-10-2002, 05:00 PM
step 8 and done

Kaiser_Sose
09-10-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Joril
You need to select the surrounding polygons aswell, because you need to add points to their edges aswell. Otherwise the polygon on which you added the edge wil no longer be connected (charing an edge) with the surrounding polygon.
(try moving the added vertex if you want proof)
Always make sure you're working with quads and tris.

This seems like the easiest way, but I get those errors

Do you have anything to show to illustrate what you are saying

Chewey - thanks for the post

Kaiser_Sose
09-10-2002, 05:36 PM
In my first post I forgot to mention that I am really looking for somethng that can cross rows

Someone told me Bandsaw pro can but Bandslice forsure can

http://www.m2estudios.com/BandsliceSplash.html

Can Bandsaw Pro do the same general function as Bandslice

absolute_lwer
09-10-2002, 06:13 PM
seems cannot

as i know, pro can provide real time, other than that nothing
this is another way for plane belt select

Steve Warner
09-10-2002, 09:53 PM
Hey Chewey! That's an excellent way to quickly add geometry! Thanks for the tip. :)

UnrealSnowman, I'm in the middle of a long project for the Army. My deadline wraps up in mid-October, so I won't have time to update the tutorials till then. Glad you liked 'em!

Steve

Mike RB
09-10-2002, 11:00 PM
http://www3.telus.net/paratrooper/detail.gif
smoothshift and drag points with a poly selection works well for this kind of thing too.

Mike

Julez4001
09-11-2002, 12:29 AM
Hey Chewey ..u know what proton is gonna ask u ....
:)

Chewey
09-11-2002, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by Julez4001
Hey Chewey ..u know what proton is gonna ask u ....
:)

uhm...maybe something like try shrinking the shots a bit to save space?
;>

Chewey
09-12-2002, 12:01 AM
I like Mike's method. It's got the smooth moves.

proton
09-12-2002, 12:10 AM
Your Right :)

I think Chewey just signed up to do a Tutorial for the LW site:bounce:


So how about it Chewey:thumbsup:

dies-irae
09-12-2002, 12:40 AM
mike,
very elegant and smooth! i like it! (i'll have to stop dreading smoothshift!! it's just that i fear having to merge points or deleting 2pts polys...)

chewey,
TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL TU-TO-RIAL :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Kaiser_Sose
09-13-2002, 08:51 PM
This is fustrating ... it seems the knife tool cuts around the whole surface, what if I wanted to just cut down a few polygons

If you do not understand I will try and get a photo up

Chewey
09-13-2002, 10:39 PM
Have you tried selecting/highlighting only the polygons you want to cut and then using the knife tool?

Kaiser_Sose
09-14-2002, 12:52 AM
Here are examples of what I mean represented by the color lines

Notice they are not straight line cuts do not go around the whole model

How can I do this in LW as to avoid subpatch and other errors

http://home.socal.rr.com/mb18/cut1.jpg

http://home.socal.rr.com/mb18/cut2.jpg

yon dabuda
09-14-2002, 01:16 AM
Kaiser_Sose:
select those rows of polygons and hide the rest, then run bandsaw. you will have to delete and mege some corner points though. but thats simple enough.

proton
09-14-2002, 04:03 AM
yup...band saw is the answer!

Kaiser_Sose
09-14-2002, 12:13 PM
I can not get it

For example, take the second picture I posted. If I were to make a flat box with 4 x 4 segment and than mold this into some abstract shape and then use Bandsaw to cut down and acrooss the polygons similar to the photo

Ok, I can make the down and across cuts by using Bandsaw twice but it leaves so many errors its not funny. I can go and delete some five point polygons by dleteing 2 polygons and selecting the four points and pressing [ p ]. But I am basically leaving above that another 5 point polygon above that which I can again fix but at the end all I did was delete the cuts Bandsaw made

I never know LW knife tool was like this. Now that I need to use it alot, I find myself stuck

Can anyone please demonstrate how I can do this with a video tutorial or picture, I would really appreciate it

Chewey
09-14-2002, 04:37 PM
For your second example you can use smooth shift to create the extra geometry that you've displayed. Practice using smooth shift on some simple, basic geometry until you become familiar with the numeric box and the right mouse button commands as well as the enter and spacebar keys.

Make sure you have your numeric box up and ready to use before you start your shift operations.("n")

Select the polys that you want the new geometry to border and execute the smooth shift ("F") command. Hold the right mouse button and you can manipulate the magnitude of the shift offset. Use the numeric entry box to interactively edit the amount of scaling you want.

Leave the smooth shift tool by hitting the enter key.

Check out Cman's "Smoo" lscript for some interesting ways of adding geometry.

yon dabuda
09-14-2002, 09:16 PM
smooth shift is good, but it will resize the selected polygons. i dont think thats the plan.


Kaiser_Sose: in your second picture, if you bandsaw down the two sides and aross the bottom, you end up with 4 loose points. which takes 2 seconds to weld to their respective corners,
and then select the 2 point polies that result and delete them, takes another 2 seconds.
i have no idea what you're doing.

yon dabuda
09-14-2002, 09:35 PM
http://www.tittiwinkle.com/bs.gif

Cman
09-15-2002, 04:20 AM
I'd really like to see MikeRB's technique in a tut, that is one great technique. Great control.
:xtreme:
What other little secrets do you have there MikeRB!? :bowdown:


As for the problem, all these techniques seem viable - including the Bandslice one! :D

Steve Warner
09-15-2002, 05:34 AM
I second Cman's request! Mike, I'd love to see that technique drawn out in a little more detail. Please. Pretty please? :)

Steve

psil
09-15-2002, 12:19 PM
I third it. That's brilliant.

A less elegant way to do same thing without smooth shift :

- select and copy(c) the row of points where you want more detail
- unweld(U) them
- select all polys on one side of the row and drag (ctrl+T) the points to one side
- do the same on the other side
- hit merge (m), then paste (v).

Your original points re-appear in the gap you created which you can then connect up - all quads & no need for split polys running entire lenght of model. For ease, turn off subD while you do it

Chewey
09-15-2002, 05:12 PM
Yes, there are plenty of ways to add geometry.
That free edge tool works nicely. I think many users don't figure out the mouse moves required and give up before they understand how to use it.

The old style technique I showed can be performed in a lot fewer moves. I made it basic so the new LW guys and gals would have a better chance of understanding it.

I like Mike's technique. Very straight forward. What part of it are you having trouble with? The 2 point poly removal?

proton
09-15-2002, 05:22 PM
I love seeing everyone sharing techniques....this is great!

Mike RB
09-15-2002, 05:57 PM
Select polys
Activate smoothshift tool
Click once to create new polys
Drop tool (but keep the poly selection)
Activate drag tool
Drag a new row of points out
Drop Drag tool
Deselect polys

Select the polys on the other side
Activate smoothshift tool
Click once to create new polys
Drop tool (but keep the poly selection)
Activate drag tool
Drag the second row of points out
Drop Drag tool
Deselect polys

Merge points
Select 2 point polys
Delete them
Select the end triangular polys
Merge polygons to convert them to quads

http://www3.telus.net/paratrooper/detail.gif

Steve Warner
09-15-2002, 06:20 PM
Thanks, Mike! That was just the type of detail I was looking for. :thumbsup:

I've been using Edge Tools and find them indispensible. It's nice to see different methods for achieving similar results. :)

Cheers!

Steve

Kaiser_Sose
09-15-2002, 06:22 PM
Ok, and someone can be so kind enough to show this in a slower graphich

Mike RB
09-15-2002, 06:28 PM
This isnt rocket science. Grab a subdivided box and just follow the steps I outlined. Or open adobe imageready and look through my gif step by step.

Kaiser_Sose
09-15-2002, 09:04 PM
What about something like this

What if I wanted to cut faces represented by the red line to define an eye area ... I can not simply cut in a circle so how would you do this

I ended up smoothshifting the six polygons and then moving the duplicate points. It looks ok I guess buts its not as a good as cutting faces

Other programs simply do not have this issue. Is it because of the three or four point polygon limitation LW has

http://home.socal.rr.com/mb18/cut3.jpg

Mike RB
09-15-2002, 09:29 PM
LW dosent have a 3-4 point poly limit. Thats only for sub-d's, model with anything you want and just clean the mesh at the end to 4 points, before you sub-d it, cman has a plugin that does this for you.

Mike

Cman
09-15-2002, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Mike RB
<snip>...
Merge points
Select 2 point polys
Delete them
Select the end triangular polys
Merge polygons to convert them to quads


Thanks MikeRB!
I'm glad you broke it out because I missed the last 2 steps in the animation. :wip:
Granted I may have discovered it anyway but it's still nice to see all the steps spelled out.
:thumbsup:

Kaiser_Sose
09-16-2002, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by Mike RB
LW dosent have a 3-4 point poly limit. Thats only for sub-d's, model with anything you want and just clean the mesh at the end to 4 points, before you sub-d it, cman has a plugin that does this for you.

Mike

Thanks for the tips

Its hard to distinguish between the two, especially with my little experience. I just find myself subpatching everything

I am still interested how you or someone with your talent would create geometry for the eye.

When you get a chance take a look

http://home.socal.rr.com/mb18/lizeye.lwo

Mike RB
09-16-2002, 03:10 AM
http://www.presetcentral.com/presets/262-Face_detailing_with_edgetoolp_Mike_RB.zip

get edgetool.p from Dstorm, get Divx, and watch that video.

Mike

Kaiser_Sose
09-16-2002, 03:35 AM
I just did the same technique with edge tools that you did for the eyes but I had subpatch errors. In your video I did not see any subpatch problems , oh well, I will get it one of these days

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