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Anurizm
01-24-2005, 03:57 AM
Well I have started this thread to help improve my knowledge and ability to draw anatomy. all I ask is please crit intelligently.

Torso
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/torso01.jpghttp://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose01.jpg

Ginsu
01-24-2005, 07:55 PM
I learned that when it comes to learning anatomy, you must begin from the inside out. What I mean by that is, first learn how to drw skeletons and slowly add the muscle onto them. And dont worry too much on hands and feet just yet. Those are some of the hardest things to draw and will require many lessons just in themselves.

So far, you have made pretty good attempts keep it up. And for now, try to stay away from the muscular body builders and super model type bodys. Learn how to draw real people with normal bodies. Learning how to draw fat is just as important as muscle.

BlueEyeLizard
01-24-2005, 10:27 PM
I agree with everything that Ginsu suggested. Also stock up on anatomy books, they are very helpful when you donít have models. Try not to round everything, there are a lot of solid long strait lines in the body anatomy. Your off to a goes start, keep it up!

KevinJM
01-25-2005, 01:12 PM
I learned that when it comes to learning anatomy, you must begin from the inside out. What I mean by that is, first learn how to drw skeletons and slowly add the muscle onto them. And dont worry too much on hands and feet just yet. Those are some of the hardest things to draw and will require many lessons just in themselves.

So far, you have made pretty good attempts keep it up. And for now, try to stay away from the muscular body builders and super model type bodys. Learn how to draw real people with normal bodies. Learning how to draw fat is just as important as muscle.


That`s Very wise,I mean really wise:wise: :wise: :wise:

Ginsu
01-25-2005, 05:02 PM
I agree with everything that Ginsu suggested. Also stock up on anatomy books, they are very helpful when you donít have models. Try not to round everything, there are a lot of solid long strait lines in the body anatomy. Your off to a goes start, keep it up!

I agree with buying books of anotomy. I forgot to mention that. I would like to recomend the same book that my favorite artist Gregg Capullo used when he was learning. Its called "The Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist; by Stephen Peck".

Truly an awe inspiring book created by an amazing artist for his time.

As for the human body having straight lines, I personnally dissagree. I believe that nothing organic has a completely straight line and my artwork tends to reflect that sometimes. I believe that every living thing is curved to some degree. Sometimes the cruves are barely noticable and might seem straight.

Good luck with everything and keep us updated on your progress. :)

-Ginsu

Rudeone
01-25-2005, 05:22 PM
I'd like to add that studying work from comicartists can be really helpfull to (if you want to go that way), the work of Greg Capullo helped me improve my skills a lot.

I to am a big fan of Capullo's work, I really was disapointed when he quit drawing Spawn

Ginsu
01-31-2005, 07:35 AM
I'd like to add that studying work from comicartists can be really helpfull to (if you want to go that way), the work of Greg Capullo helped me improve my skills a lot.

I to am a big fan of Capullo's work, I really was disapointed when he quit drawing Spawn

I was pretty pissed when he stopped drawing Spawn as well, but to tell you the truth, the Inker (Danny Mikki I think is his name) was the guy who really gave Spawn that gritty feel. Because when the Capullo Left and that got that other artist, it still retained that same dark, dirty feeling of an alley.

Anurizm
02-02-2005, 11:08 AM
I have begun to take a different approach at this. A lot of people suggested I learn from inside out, so I can understand the muscles and structure a bit better. So I am going to do so by working my way from head to toe. Here I am currently working to understand the skull in front view. I am still unhappy with how they are turning out though. seems they are unproportional etc.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull01.jpg

hjalmar
02-02-2005, 12:06 PM
do you have any anatomy books? are you using referance? if not then you should

theres no way you can really guess at the understructure of the human body

there are several books out there that are made for artists, even some free ones online if you look hard enough

CodeNothing
02-02-2005, 12:25 PM
start with the skeleton and work your way out. Thats how i learned anatomy, and it works realy well. You need to know proportions of bones before you can make anything look right. You need to know where the muscles connect to bones to make the muscles look right. You need to know your muscles and how they work to put skin on and make THAT look right.

Start with a good foundation and you will save yourself years of struggle.
good luck!

FromanylanD
02-02-2005, 12:30 PM
You should learn to draw first...don't take this as an insult (I'm not saying you can't draw now). I don't think it makes sense to learn to render human anatomy until you feel confident in your basic drawing skills. Check out Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0874774241/qid=1107347199/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-3096883-9217441?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).

Ginsu
02-02-2005, 10:08 PM
learn to vary your line weights. Lines can start thick and progressively get thinner. I think thats kinda what was meant by the post ontop of mine.

skizzemann
02-02-2005, 10:52 PM
If available, take a life drawing class, nothing beats sitting in front of a live model. Sometimes local art associations have open live drawing sessions (no instructor). Starting out having an instructor is very beneficial. Studying and drawing the work of artists you admire, is a time honored tradition.

Drawing from life will be time well spent.

Two classic life drawing books:
George Bridgman Bridgman's Life Drawing covers skeleton, anatomy as well as life drawing. still in print

Andrew Loomis FIGURE DRAWING FOR ALL ITS WORTH skeleton, anatomy, life drawing.
Excellent book though out of print. Has become a collectors item and so can be pricy, but worth it. Got mine for $2.00 in a used book store, it can be gotten. Check online used book searchers such as bookfinder.com

Ginsu
02-03-2005, 04:09 AM
I also forgot to mention this:

You work on a flat surface am I right? I mean, you draw right on a table or a desk dont you? You need to work on an angled surface. Take a piece of wood and put a block of wood or something underneath the top of it to give your drawing surface an angle.

It shows in your work. Everything is at a slight angle. Its a common problem, but an easy fix.

P.S. Even thought you cleaned up yoru work in Photoshop, it shows that your right handed.

-Ginsu

Anurizm
02-03-2005, 06:38 AM
@fromanyland: yeah, I am using hogarth's dynamic anatomy, loomis's figure drawing, and recently i just got artist's guide to human anatomy by gottfried bammes.

I am going to keep doing front views untill I am satisfied with the way they are turning out, then I will begin side, back, and 3/4th's :)

Anurizm
02-05-2005, 10:51 AM
a bit of improvement :) slowly, but surely.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull02.jpg

Anurizm
02-07-2005, 11:29 AM
I am now a bit more happy with drawing the skull in front view :) now time for side views.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull03.jpg

alastairwinter
02-07-2005, 03:22 PM
Hey Anurizm,

One of the best things I tried to do for myself was too not try the 'traditional' views (front, back, 3/4, side) but rather when I first started learning the anatomy was to do all sorts of views. Like tilt the skull up and to the side a bit, and try to fill in the pieces from there. I think in your sketches it looks like you're trying to do the skull as one whole piece (with proper proportions of pieces here and there). A good excercise might be to try 'reconstructing' the skull (like adding the jawbone later) as well as doing details on certain parts of the skull without looking at the book to see if you have the fundamentals down (and try doing the details from strange views--like looking at a skull from underneath, underneath and to the side, etc.). And another thing that might help is to try and add 'depth' to the skull. :) (example for the depth might be the eye sockets -- they contain your jelly-like eyeballs in them and so they're actually cupped at the front to prevent your eyes from falling out.)

But good luck with the anatomy, and I'll try to stop by later if it's useful for you. :)

Cheers, and oh! Main thing, it might seem like a lot now, to figure out how it all works out with bones and muscles and everything, but if you don't get it really right in the beginning it'll keep showing till you fix it later (like someone said about struggling with it later on). Good luck!

Anurizm
02-08-2005, 11:28 AM
Hey Anurizm,

One of the best things I tried to do for myself was too not try the 'traditional' views (front, back, 3/4, side) but rather when I first started learning the anatomy was to do all sorts of views. Like tilt the skull up and to the side a bit, and try to fill in the pieces from there. I think in your sketches it looks like you're trying to do the skull as one whole piece (with proper proportions of pieces here and there). A good excercise might be to try 'reconstructing' the skull (like adding the jawbone later) as well as doing details on certain parts of the skull without looking at the book to see if you have the fundamentals down (and try doing the details from strange views--like looking at a skull from underneath, underneath and to the side, etc.). And another thing that might help is to try and add 'depth' to the skull. :) (example for the depth might be the eye sockets -- they contain your jelly-like eyeballs in them and so they're actually cupped at the front to prevent your eyes from falling out.)

But good luck with the anatomy, and I'll try to stop by later if it's useful for you. :)

Cheers, and oh! Main thing, it might seem like a lot now, to figure out how it all works out with bones and muscles and everything, but if you don't get it really right in the beginning it'll keep showing till you fix it later (like someone said about struggling with it later on). Good luck!

this sounds good man. the main reason I have done it my way was to learn form, but now since you have give me a suggestion I will prob break it down now since I know the form of it. as of drawing it by memory, I done the latest one from memory :) All I am going to say to every cgtalk member here and those that read this is, once I am able to get my anatomy skills straight expect some great pieces not only 2d, but 3d also :) and I appreciate everyone of you who are taking the time to check out my thread and give me feedback. I shall bring another update A.S.A.P.

thanks again,
-Anurizm

Anurizm
02-21-2005, 08:13 AM
small update

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull04.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull05.jpg

pascal_blanche
02-22-2005, 04:41 PM
most of the comments are good,
here are my advises:
before going to muscular details go for overall silhouette
no need to take time on this kind of exercice (5 / 10 minutes for a good drawing)
but basically, try to reproduce poses you like, and keep in mind to pay attention to general proportions
when i draw, i always block out general shapes: head first then neck and shoulders ( a ball for the size of each shoulder) then the arc of the spine, and triangle for pelvis, then legs ( always draw the feet first it helps estimating the lengh of the leg) and then you can put the knees
after that you can start construct mucles a bit, and start a new pose
most important, draw based on a pose reference a first....
and draw only general shapes no need to copy the style of your reference , that's not the purpose of the excercice
noted?
post you results here so we can go further..
class open!
;)

Anurizm
02-23-2005, 11:45 AM
alright, here are a few poses spent about 15min or so on each one. my proportions aren't that great :/

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose02.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose03.jpg


http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose04.jpg

MaTaKo
02-23-2005, 01:36 PM
Im not expert, but here is my tips. Women in your last post look little too masculine, try to make shoulders and neck less wide. And here (http://www.fineart.sk/index.php?cat=1) is link to Andrew loomis series, where you can find books about figure and head drawing.

pascal_blanche
02-23-2005, 02:34 PM
first drawings can be frustrating you know.. the rule is: draw five times the same pose: the fifth drawing will be better than the first one ;)
so if we basically start from you first pose: legs are not long enough, same for the neck, shoulders are too big. Thing about the legs are a classic mistake.. you didnt have enough space, right?

Keep it up ;) and keep post! btw, post your reference too it will help...

Ginsu
02-23-2005, 02:52 PM
You know, you are making a LOT of progress extremely fast! Whatever you do, dont stop whatever it is you have been doing. Right now, focus on the overall shapes. Dont get lost in the details until you have the basics down.

As your doing these excersizes try to vary your line weights and draw from your whole arm and shoulder and not your hand. I can tell from your work that you rest your right wrist on the paper and draw from your hand and not your whole arm.

-Ginsu

pascal_blanche
02-23-2005, 02:57 PM
good point ginsu.... exactly the kind line style ;)

drawing fom your elbow pivot or shoulder pivot and not wrist pivot will help you getting more loose, fand dynamic to your lines...

try it!

Anurizm
02-24-2005, 11:08 AM
alright here is round 2, I done 5 sketches of one pose :) I also used my arm more this time instead of resting my wrist. I didn't really aim for any line weights this time, I was mainly just going for the forms and silouhette. I am loving your guys feedback \m/ keep it coming.

alright here are my sketches and ref image, I am also including the ref for last post.

ref for last post
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/sk1.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/sk2.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/3.jpg

Anurizm
02-24-2005, 11:11 AM
alright here are my latest with ref :)

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose5.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose6.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose7.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose8.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose9.jpg

Anurizm
02-24-2005, 11:13 AM
here is the ref
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/103_g.jpg

pascal_blanche
02-24-2005, 03:02 PM
.. niiiice references ;)

ok if i check your drawings and the ref you gave, here are two important things to understand and watch carefully:

Step one:

1: proportions (blue lines) see how you can almost cut this nice body into four segments and where i put the segments: shoulders, hips knees and foot. reproduce that in your drawings and you ll see there you missed something ;)
2: position/angle of the body:(red lines): It's the way you have to look at your (really nice) model to understand how the pose works. USually, using vertical line is a common way to understand the process: in this particular pose, eyes are vertically aligned with right knee, the butt with rear right foot, and really important: shoulder with rear left foot.
now if you start to look at all those lines
(blue and red), it`s like a geometrical game.. you ll start ro see triangles and squares, and you`ll see what is in those geometries and what is not..
So next step: draw again this model, but after re drawing my line references.. it should improve you work, and second exercice, post your first references with red and blue lines to see if you start to catch them ;)
http://pascal.youladesign.com/albums/userpics/10001/103_g.jpg

Mirwen
02-24-2005, 05:41 PM
ehhh. why should you buy books, when you can download them, right? :-)
This should work: http://www.accad.ohio-state.edu/~cbelland/public/loomis_FIGURE_draw.pdf (http://www.gfxartist.com/actions/go.php?ID=7639)

alastairwinter
02-25-2005, 04:24 AM
Ah....but it doesn't work. :)
As for the poses and whatnot, keep it up. Proportions are some of those good things that you really might not like but definately should know how to do especially when things get sticky (and you're stuck trying to get something to work out). I'm pretty sure that some of those books have some proportions in it (like how long the legs are and all that), and they're good to know when you're drawing in case you step back and look at things and see if they 'seem right'.

:) Good advice I saw so far though, like 5-10 minutes for quick sketches and whatnot -- try to stay away from those 'muscular' drawings where you try to incorporate details that may or may not be there. Draw what you see. :)

I'll check back on ya, but good progess man.

Anurizm
02-25-2005, 11:27 AM
my lord this thread is becoming a book, haha. I wish I had more time to work on this stuff though due to my job (tempurpedic - yes the matress) the shift I work makes it hard on me to get time to work on my dream jobs singing/guitar and drawing. I appreciate everyone's help, especially pascale for taking the time to work with me a bit :) I notice a lot of people are suggesting books and stuff, which I have some of them I have loomis figure drawing for all it's worth, hogarth dynamic anatomy, and recently bammes artist's guide to human anatomy. I know about the measurements of anatomy average male roughly 8 heads, female 7 1/2, etc.

I am seeing progress in my work already, especially after this latest exercise.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose10.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/hm1.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/hm2.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/hm3.jpg

pascal_blanche
02-25-2005, 04:11 PM
yes! see? in just a few drawings you improved a lot, bravo!
About the lines, you are not putting them at the rotation joints (knees, ankles, elbows, shoulders) Try to imagine the skeletton beneath the skin, and where the pivots are...
Basically, you can do anything with just lines.
All you need is to watch carefully, and imagine invisible lines crossing the joints, let them lengthen to infinite and check the result, it will help you construct your body/pose better:

http://pascal.youladesign.com/albums/userpics/10001/sk1_lines.jpg


I made the stronguest reference line in blue, now look how it help splitting the whole body in two... nostril is at the left of the line and both nipples, even the neck!
redlines are here to show you other strong lines of the body, i marked the rotation angles of the skeletton with red/white dots to make you understand their utility too ;)

Second step: filling out the lines.
Another usual mistake that can be fixed easily is the thikness mistakes... look at the second drawing:

http://pascal.youladesign.com/albums/userpics/10001/sk1_shapes2.jpg


Now that you know how to put your rotation angles in the correct place using the lines (using step one and step two), you have to give your model correct shape proportions
The easy way is to draw circles that correspond to the actual size of the rotations angles (hips bigger than knees and elbows , ..) and then just draw simple shapes (in blue) that goes from one circle to another.. note that for the torso i broke it in two squares, one following the shoulders angles, and the other following the hips angle.. that helps understanding the general shape of the torso, how you will place the breasts and so on...

ready for a new drawing session? now you should try to draw that model again, following those four steps:

_Step one: verticals and horizontals
_Step two: lines going from angles and continuing to infinite + split line coming from the midle of the head
_Step three:draw circles at the rotation angles and fill out the body with simple geometries ( triangles and squares) using angle sizes for references
_step four: refine your drawing

post one of the models you choosed with those four steps ;)

good luck and keep it up!

Anurizm
02-28-2005, 09:57 AM
alright, here are some sketches for the last exercise :)

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose11.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose12.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose13.jpg

pascal_blanche
03-01-2005, 04:50 AM
top is getting better, some proportions need refining, but it will come in time ;)
it looks like you ran out of space for the legs ;) always make sure that you are not out of space when drawing your guidelines..
now try to draw the girl i used for my last guidelines.. here is my try using the same technic.. damn my drawing years a really far behind :P oh well...


http://pascal.youladesign.com/albums/userpics/10001/scan2.jpg



if anybody wants to join... lets have fun ;)

Ginsu
03-01-2005, 04:52 AM
top is getting better, some proportions need refining, but it will come in time ;)
it looks like you ran out of space for the legs ;) always make sure that you are not out of space when drawing your guidelines..
now try to draw the girl i used for my last guidelines.. here is my try using the same technic.. damn my drawing years a really far behind :P oh well...


http://pascal.youladesign.com/albums/userpics/10001/scan2.jpg



if anybody wants to join... lets have fun ;)

If we all start trying, we will hijack his thread from right under his nose. Theres other threads for things like this.

Anurizm
03-01-2005, 04:58 AM
no no no, I would love for anyone who wants to join in, we all can learn from each other :)

all that I ask is just make it where you images will be up for a long time if you post any, I would like for this to become a sticky thread for future artist wanting to study anatomy, so they won't have to go and splurge on buying books :)

DANKA
03-01-2005, 09:08 AM
In my opinion, I think, you shold start to draw something more simply, like a still life subject.
Bottle, simply objects, books...in different perspective view. To catch all the various simply geometric forms like: box, sphere, cylinder, cone...because human anatomy could be simplify in a group of geometric elements.
I think this is the best start for you...

Hoagart it's great, but too much advanced to start draw.
Try with Civardi: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0289800897/ref=ase_infoline0f-21/202-5107611-0625406

And listen the advices of Pascal, it's a great honour have a master like him!
Take always the same care and "obstinacy" ;) it's the right way!;)


I hope you understand my english

Anurizm
03-01-2005, 11:06 AM
here is this assignment, man I am slower than christmas :/ I spent way to long on these sketches than I was suppost to. but something are pulling together a bit better. slowly but surely :) I enjoy doing the work and study.

alright pascal here is today's assignment, I tried to get 5 in but somethings unfortunately came up.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose14.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose15.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose16.jpg

fredlovebot
03-01-2005, 01:48 PM
I think the general time doesn't matter, don't rush things. Just don't find yourself sitting making small details in the beggining of the sketch. When I do this i often loose track of the propotions of the general figure.

You really improved! Keep it going!

pascal_blanche
03-01-2005, 04:41 PM
hey! wow!
nice drawings!!
just for the fun of it, you should put side to side your early sketch of this pose you posted in page two and the third drwing of this session..
Told you it would take you three months at two hours a week to start seeing improvments.. looks like you found a temporal gape hole or something :P
I really didnt expect to see that much progress in so few time,
great work!

At this point of your learning, its more about practicing than getting new tricks..
ill add more guidelines later ;)

now pickup another pose( not a complex one), and start again three or five drawings, your in good direction,
keep it up!

AnimZiggy
03-01-2005, 05:41 PM
pascal it' s nice of you to help out! I started drawing again recently, kind of becoming addicted to DSF when work allows me....

man, I'm rusty (http://img87.exs.cx/img87/6258/rusty9fx.jpg). (click for my bad version) 3D took over my life. lol.

gruvsyco
03-01-2005, 07:22 PM
I agree, thanks Pascal! I've been learning a lot from this too.

fcint
03-01-2005, 07:33 PM
Hey How's everything?

I would first like to say that I think it's great that everyone is being so collaborative on this thread (especially Pascal). I am sure this is of great help to many others.

I think what Danka said is really important. If you understand how more primitive shapes work (spheres, cilinders, toruses, cubes - simpler objects are a good exercise), then you may use them as a human body can be constructed using these objects. but in reality it is a little more complicated, as muscle, fat and bone create subtle deformations from basic forms. You can only learn how these subtleties work by drawing from life.

Also, while it is important to understand basic shapes, you have to find the right balance between "constructivism" and "calligrahy". This means don't only construct the body with individual parts like an action figure, but also loosen your hand and try to capture the whole body language (it's called calligraphy because it resembles this style of writing). In the end, you'll not only want to be able to draw a body that "looks right", but which is really alive: the weight balance, line of action, and basically the whole body language work well. This is actually what I am working on right now.

Hope this helps!

tevih
03-01-2005, 08:24 PM
I agree with the start from inside-out way of learning to draw, but I think you should try to actually draw the insides of a reference, after understand bones and muscles, etc. Start by learning the bones, takea reference, and draw the skeleton of whomever it is you're drawing, in that pose with the proper proportions. You don't have to necessarily draw each knob of the end of a bone, but draw the basic shapes. After learning the skeleton that way, try drawing the actual figure. Then go and learn the muscles, and start all over again drawing the muscles...

Good luck

pascal_blanche
03-02-2005, 06:53 PM
good advises here, but first in my opinion there is plenty of time to practice thoses simple exercices before starting pushing details , volumes and anatomy references.. all thoses concerns are useless if you dont get your silhouette right... ;)

Anurizm
03-03-2005, 10:47 AM
Hey pascal,
sorry I haven't posted any sketches yet, I hurt my hand at work the other day. it's still pretty sore, I will continue my studies ASAP :)

pascal_blanche
03-04-2005, 06:18 AM
damn!
rest a while, its ok ;)
gives you time to mature all thoses guidelines in your head ;)

Kirt
03-04-2005, 10:09 AM
There's some really good instruction here. Thanks Pascal and others for stepping in. Anurizm, you're showing dramatic improvement. I hope you're well soon.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that you can also take cues from proportions by studying the negative space around the figure. This simple comparison of the shape that is not what you're drawing helps to get length of limbs correct.

In the image attachment, you'll see where I created very simple shapes to identify negative space between her legs and arms. If you can accurately reproduce these basic forms on your paper, then you have another element to measure your work to (on top of all the other excellent tips that Pascal mentioned already).

Solothores
03-05-2005, 11:08 AM
Guys, thanks for sharing your informations/tips and advices which are very interesting - eager to see how Anurizm will do with your coaching :)

@Anurizm
Keep it up - you are going ahead in big steps :)

bongob
03-05-2005, 11:58 PM
Heyall,

this threat is pretty cool - i learned alot!

Anurizm,
i like that fact that you are uploading your drawings!
my drawings always suckt at the beginning and i did*t
show them anyone - this was a mistake...

the advise to draw primitives from different angles
is just right - but hey, why are we learning to draw?

...impressing primitives?

pasca,

nice drawing - nice advisesl

Anurizm
03-06-2005, 11:48 AM
well I am back on track again, here is the latest assignment pascal. I thought it would be fun also if I posted the two poses side by side. so here it is along with the assignment :) btw the first sketch for the assignment I done 1 day prior to my work accident, but I done 2-5 tonight.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/compare01.jpg

assignment
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/08.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose17.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose18.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose19.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose20.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose21.jpg

ZeroNeuro
03-06-2005, 12:57 PM
This is the way my eye interprets the spatial relationships. Keep in mind I think in a strange way ;)
The sketch was fast and the compression may be ugly. But I hope it gives an indication on how I see it.
http://www.zeroneuro.com/temp/figlineint.jpg

Anurizm
03-07-2005, 11:40 AM
here is another line of sketches this time I am doing a male, Ahnuld Swatzahneggah :D

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/m11.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose22.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose23.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose24.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose25.jpg

hpslashluvr
03-08-2005, 07:58 AM
I think you are thinking a little too hard about it...you need to loosen up a lot...since these all are just studies then you can afford not to have perfect outlines of your references...I think your main problem is that you are working from photographs...go sit in a park or cafe and sketch like crazy, or better yet get with a group of friends and hire a model. Working from photos can "flatten" your work...using real live ppl will give your drawings a bit of life and you'll learn much faster on how the body works.

I did a quick sketch of the girl you posted...probably not quite in proportion (after all, tracing is no fun, and you can always go back and overlay the photo on top afterwards) but just to show you a much easier and fluid way to work. I think you are on the right track in using some lines and shapes, but your shapes are too straight. Don't think in squares or circles; think in 3d - cylinders, wedges, etc. Mannequins are basically just cylinders plus a head, anyhow. It looks like a long rant, but it really only took a few minutes to draw...the rest of the fifteen minutes was spent uploading the pics so you wouldn't have a huge image dump ;)

First, I drew a base line of where she was going to be leaning against, so it didn't look like she was floating. Make sure to do this when you have ppl leaning against a desk or whatever...just a line will do but it gets rid of that floating look.

http://img186.exs.cx/img186/7841/14su.jpg

Next, I just drew a loose oval for the head. http://img186.exs.cx/img186/9775/27xi1.jpg

I didn't measure anything yet; I'm going to base everything else off this. I saw you drew some guidelines...IMO you don't need to draw a lot of these, usually just down the middle of the body to guide the rest of your lines. In real life, most ppl use the "stick your arm out straight and squint, using your pencil and a thumb" rule, where from the tip to your thumb is set as "the head," and of course the rest of the body can be based off that. Some people don't like to start from the head but I find it always makes measurements much easier afterward. Notice that the oval probably isn't even quite the right shape or direction...it's ok, just keep the pen moving and try not to stop. We'll fix it in a sec.

Next we'll sketch in the cross for the face, which you did.
http://img186.exs.cx/img186/3067/36tw1.jpg
In this case, her head is pretty dead on, but I notice that you draw the cross really straight in a lot of your drawings. She has her face ever so slightly turned to the right. The cross should follow the contour of the face, although like I said it's dead on enough that the lines won't be too curvy.
http://img186.exs.cx/img186/3896/48cg.jpg

You can draw in the nose and mouth lines, but first let's fix the head a bit now that we have guidelines on how it faces. I made it a little larger and gave her a bit of a chin. This all so far should have taken 5 seconds, 10 at the most. link (http://img186.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img186&image=51ln.jpg)

Sometimes I will "flesh out" the rest of the body in a vague mass link (http://img186.exs.cx/img186/5088/70ko.jpg) , which gives the figure form. I'm not a great artist, though, and IMO this body is a little too difficult with the arms and stance to sketch that quick. I looked over the picture and mentally took some notes on the key places where the pose/weight is centered around. I tend to work down from the face, but that's up to the artist of course. Her shoulder stands out to me - I probably drew it a little too hunchy but I think it gives the model some character. We can fix it later. I also put in a hint of the neck for reference later for the other shoulder. link (http://img186.exs.cx/img186/7694/60ev.jpg)

I try to sketch in the torso after the head because if you work first on the arms, the torso always ends up looking too small or big, etc. Here is a good example of where drawing that base line of the tree will help, by creating negative space. The negative space between the tree and her forms a sort of a trapezoid (I hope that's the right geometrical term). You might decide to draw a curve instead, either way is fine. It's just guidelines, you'll clean it all up. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/628/84oh.jpg)

The pose that you've chosen is pretty interesting. Because the girl is so thin, IMO it's going to make it harder to draw. Drawing fuller people lets you draw more fluidly - keep that in mind when choosing references. The torso can often be seen as a series of cylinders - usually two - but with her breasts and ribs I see three. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/5321/96qi.jpg) The bottom of the bikini will also serve as the bottom of the top cylinder, with an upward U shape. We'll draw this first. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7587/104jo.jpg) Where does the bra end on the right side in relation to the neck? You can see it's quite aways out, between half and a whole head. Without this in my head, I'd prolly have drawn it too short. Also notice for later details that the bra cuts into her back on the left side. link (http://img200.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img200&image=113wl.jpg)

The most important guideline IMO, as mentioned earlier, is the one that travels down the middle of your body. It goes down the front of your head, thru the middle of your neck and chest, and down your crotch. But where are you going to draw the line? Her head may be dead on but her body most certainly isn't, and therefore the line thru her neck will be skewed. It turns to the right and then goes down thru the middle of the breasts. My lines are slightly off, but we're practicing anatomy, not perfect tracing of photos. I put in a hint of the right breast and fixed the guideline thru the middle of her breasts a little to the right. The first cylinder can be seen with a bit of imagination. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7349/125nm.jpg)

The guideline now goes thru her breasts and down her belly. In the photo, you'll notice it actually makes a pretty straight line because her stomach is flat. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/1757/132dd.jpg) We're moving on to the second cylinder now, so I chose to draw a second curve to indicate to myself where her ribs will "end," at least the pointy part! link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/4882/141mh.jpg) Her right rib makes a > shape, with the top portion of the "V" being much longer than the bottom portion. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7903/153qi.jpg) The body should look like it is wearing a corset, which basically is what a corset anyways - something that follows the lines of the body. The rest of the ribs are not as important right now and can be considered details for later. So far this drawing should have taken around 20 seconds, 30 if you erase some.

In the third cylinder, the edge of the belly is almost part of the straight line that we drew as a guideline. It curves out a bit, but just barely. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/9041/168cs.jpg) Then I drew another line to finish off the bottom of the third cylinder. The right edge curves a bit where her thigh is being brought up. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/4945/172es.jpg) I also went back up to the first cylinder and added just a touch where her left breast/cleavage is, and a bit of fat under the bikini strap. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/4738/184kp.jpg) So far the drawing has dynamics, what with the chest thrust out and the hip line.

Now onto the arms, which will probably be the hardest part. I first fixed the right breast a bit, making it rounder and extending the line up back to the neck. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/3549/191za.jpg) I also placed a hint of where her other shoulder is, for reference. Again, we look at the negative space between the head and arms - basically a < and > (triangle) shape for each side of the head. I also look at the eyeline to see where the crook of the elbow will be, and draw two lines accordingly as guides. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/5015/202yu.jpg)

A guesstimate of how wide to draw the arms would be a little more than a head's width to the left, and a head's width to the right (you should use the pencil tip measuring rule, but I just winged it). Personally I find it easier to draw the elbows first in this case because the arms are pretty tricky. I made sure to keep in mind the angle at which the elbows were. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/4310/215xp.jpg) Then I drew in the > and <, noticing the subtle curves that are inherent in each (for instance where the wrist goes into the left hand makes a curve). link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/9018/229rx.jpg) Next, I put some guidelines down the center of each arm to show where the lines should follow - like the guidelines down the middle of the breasts and stomach, this one goes down the middle of the arms.

This is one of the few instances where I drew some circles. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/9531/235sq.jpg) Circles and cylinders really are your friend in imagining the human body. You could just draw the arm, but because I'm drawing so quickly, I don't want to have to erase, and the circles tell me where the "fat" is. It keeps me from making the arms too stick-like. It's especially prevalent in the underarm fat on her left arm - you can see it "hanging." Now I just "connect" the circles to each other with lines and two curves for the left hand. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7908/247fu.jpg) Yay! Done with the arms.

We'll finish from the waist down. First, draw a circle for the curvature in the butt. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/4560/250xm.jpg) Like with the bikini top, we are gonna use the string of the bikini bottom to hint at the hip. After that, we guesstimate at where the knee is and draw a circle there, just like we did with the elbows. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/18/267pl.jpg) I also added a line where the back leg goes into the hip.

The trick to drawing people leaning is to draw their back leg first (or the one they put the weight on). The legs are essentially just a set of two cylinders, one for the thigh to knee and the other for the knee to ankle. The back leg's thigh to knee cylinders look pretty straight to me, so we just draw two lines. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/3103/279tn.jpg) Where should the knee start? We'll use the other knee as reference. It makes a diagonal line downward toward the back leg's knee. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/2385/288lr.jpg) I put another circle for the back leg knee and connected the rest of the thigh to it, noticing the curves that appear at the crooks (back) of the knee. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/9539/292dw.jpg) To help with the curve of the calf I added another circle. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/6742/307vc.jpg)

Where should the bottom of the foot end? I used a pencil to measure the top of the head to the bottom of the butt, and then compared that measurement to the bottom of the butt to the foot in the photo. The latter is a bit less than the former, and I guessed at a line where the foot would end. Next I drew another line for the calf, following the curve of the circle previously drawn there for reference, and a line for the shin. The foot was basically just guessed at, but I guess you can just think of it as a modified wedge. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/8145/313tc.jpg) It isn't completely flat; the sole comes up a bit in the middle. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/817/328rf.jpg)

Finally we can move onto the front leg. There is some more fattiness and curvature to this one than the back leg, so I drew a circle for the thigh and connected lines from the butt to the knee. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/6594/332qo.jpg) link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7311/342xk.jpg) The shin drops down backwards at a very slight angle, but the line is straight. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/8873/355yv.jpg) Add yet another circle to guide the calf. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/9818/366lr.jpg) I always felt that one of the most overlooked parts in drawings is the curvature of the calf - it's pretty prominent, so make sure to get it right. Draw in the crook of the knee to connect everything.

Before we finish off the calf, first sketch in the front foot. The back of the front foot can be thought of as a triangle and the front as a L shape. Notice the front foot comes lower on the picture plane than the back foot. You missed this in your drawings. The heel also "pushes" past the calf of the back leg.link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/8035/377qp.jpg) Always be constantly comparing parts of the body to the other - it's a much better tool than doing the "perfect" proportional figure and measuring things out, because a lot of people don't fit that stereotype. The toes in the front foot "fan" out, creating a curve. Then I connected the shin to the foot and the calf to the ankle, and exaggerated the heel some more (it makes girls look sexier) before finishing the foot. I added a few final curves to give a suggestion of the toes. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/3715/381sv.jpg)


Finally, a somewhat clearer picture (although still messy) and a overlay...not quite perfect but pretty close considering I only looked off the photo. link (http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7820/406rl.jpg) I know the changes are subtle in some of the pictures, hopefully the links work and it helps you a bit.

Ginsu
03-08-2005, 05:24 PM
here is another line of sketches this time I am doing a male, Ahnuld Swatzahneggah :D

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/m11.jpg


Do NOT try to learn anything from that man! Arnold is far from Proportional. :wise: I had mentioned something before about drawing from "regular" people and not body builders. Your still starting out and your not at that level where you can properly learn from these body builders. For now, stick to what you have been learning from.

Now for my constructive crit. It looks to me that your getting kinda lost in the initial break down of the figure. Your not getting the proportions right in the basic breaking down and this causes all further improvements to look off and unproportional. I agree with hpslashluvr and recomend you try tracing the initial body contour and try filling it in. Many people have done and STILL do so dont think its cheating. Some of the stuff you see in CG Gallery was made using tracing in one form or another.

I just wanted to say :thumbsup: for trying to improve on your work. And thumbs up on asking for and accepting peoples advice. Your hard work and commitment will gaurentee your success. But it wont happen over night so dont give up if you dont see any progress for a while.

midazolam
03-09-2005, 05:10 AM
This is a great thread!

One thing that I took from art school in one of my figure drawing classes that really helped _me_ out a lot, on top of what everyone else has posted, was when you're drawing something really familiar to you, like a figure, while drawing it's important to eliminate your brain saying "calf muscle" or "elbow" while you're drawing. What that does is lead you to draw what you _know_ instead of what you _see_. Usually the two are vastly different. What we were encouraged to try instead was think of the curves and how one curve flowed to the next, often in soft S-type patterns. Once you can get rid of the brain drawing what it knows, and reduce it to drawing curves, great progress can be made.

This was just my own experience - may not work as well for others, but thought I would share.

:m

Anurizm
03-09-2005, 05:34 AM
@hpslashluvr

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to demonstrate this technique. It really shows how you can add volume to the pose :) so now time to work with it a bit.

@ginsu

yeah I must agree, I went to complex for the moment. I am going to lay off the body builders for a while untill I get the proportioning a bit better as you said.

raijinnfury
03-09-2005, 03:57 PM
I'm not sure if someone mentioned it, but when i took anatomy drawing classes, I learned to draw as few outlines as possible. When you see people, do you notice the outlines of their body as lines or as light and shadows? :) That might helps as far as your drawing techniques, use some shading when possible. Concentrate on where the light falls on objects and where shadows are cast and that might help you in your struggles.

Also, this goes with what I just said but maybe try to think of everything you draw having a specific plane (ie. top plane side plane front plane back plane, etc.) This way you force yourself to concentrate on the form of the body rather then on outlines. If you can box out a specific object by separating it into planes, it makes it significantly easy to come back in and do the shading. Also maybe do some drills, 30 seconds to 1 minute just showing the feel of the pose. no outlines just quick skeletal structure on how the spine, leg bones, arm bones, are resting due to gravity.

One more thing I learned how to do in class was to draw with your shoulder. I'm not sure if you are doing so, since well this is all online. :) But if you can draw with your shoulder instead of your wrist, you can get the feel of every line you draw with. It produces a better line and even though you might be using a wacom for this (not sure) it is still possible to draw wit hthe shoulder in a small area. It takes practice and definately some time to get into if you're in the habit of drawing with your wrist but it has made all the difference in my work.

Hopefully these tips help you out!

Anurizm
03-14-2005, 01:48 AM
sorry for such the delay on the update, getting caught up in things as usual. I am going to try to kick it in gear now. this time I tryed to add volume this time thanks to hpsluver for the demonstration. I really like this technice I have somewhat incorporated with what pascal has taught me and I took the advice to not go after sketching the body builders at the moment. so here are my sketches.
ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/01.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/02.jpg

sketches:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose26.jpg

Anurizm
03-14-2005, 09:42 AM
some more sketches.

ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/03.jpg
sketches:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose27.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose28.jpg

Swoop
03-14-2005, 09:44 AM
Have you ever tried the book "Drawing on the right side of your brain"... it's really good and learned you how to disregard your symbol drawings from childhood. Its all about people really dont draw what they see, but what the brain thinks they see... thus an eye will more likely look like it did when you drew as a child, rather than what you see in front of you.
Im no expert, but i think i see a little bit of that in your drawings...
For instance this last one the first ref he is not facing the camera straight on, but you almost drew him like that only rotating the face...

Try taking a ref photo, print it... turn the image upside down, and the cover the image with a peice of paper. THEN revieal a bit of the image at a time, while drawing what you see bit by bit... that way you will be drawing a small portion pretty acurately, without really knowing what you are drawing if you understand.

Hope you will try this exercise as it's really awsome to learn that you CAN draw extremely good, but you are being setup by your own brain most of the time ... hehe ;)

PS: The post image im talking about really isnt your latest, but the post with the big guy also as a ref... you had a new post before i posted this one ;)

PPS: draw what you see, dont draw what you dont see.. like the chest muscles (pecs) you seem to draw then with a half circle each time, while you should really just ahde them in discretely, when they arent that protruding...

Swoop
03-14-2005, 10:29 AM
Okay i took about 15 minutes roughly... maybe i bit longer since i shaded the whole thing in roughly .. but the lines ect took me about 15 minutes...
What i did was print out the image, turn upside down, and then slowly draw it one bit at a time ... after that i corrected some smaller mistakes. If i were to work more on it im sure it would be more accurate. But all in all i think it went pretty decent for a first try ;) I could now take this image, draw in muscles (if i knew them, and how) and really nail the anatomy ..

But anyways i wanted to back up my previous suggestion with actual results ;) Hope you like it as i like it ;) hehe it was fun to draw.. love drawing with big shadows :D

http://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/anatomy2.jpg

Anurizm
03-14-2005, 10:45 AM
really nice :)

I would try this right now, but my printer is out of colored ink :/

Swoop
03-14-2005, 10:55 AM
I actually saved the color on my painter, and converted the image to black and white... seemed easier...
Im not saying you cant do the same exercise on screen though... you can rotate the image there easily, and as for covering it up... you can make a new layer on top of the photo, and just fill the new layer with a color, and the move around that layer to reveal more of the image :D

Looking forward to seeing more, and lemme agian just do a shameless plug for the drawing on the right side of the brain, book.. it's awsome ! :D

hpslashluvr
03-14-2005, 02:51 PM
i agree, the book is pretty good and the techniques are used pretty often in classes.

and seeing how those ppl improved from a stick figure to a realistic drawing in a few weeks is pretty amazing :thumbsup:

Ginsu
03-14-2005, 11:07 PM
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/02.jpg


That dude is the man. Nothing beats a nice relaxing drive with a smoke when your 300+ pounds.

Anurizm
03-15-2005, 11:35 AM
more sketches :)

ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/04.jpg

sketches:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose29.jpg

Swoop
03-15-2005, 04:02 PM
Well i did some red marker sketching on top of yours to illustrate some points i have, and on the bottom one i kinda went overboard and sketched the whole pose out ;)

Anyways first things is first. I noticed you drew some of the neck which really isnt there.. marked with a red circled... did it on both drawings. On the both you also made the back arch too big... and on both the legs are at a wrong angle...

I want to reccomend you dont sketch this out like you do.. seems like you do a quick "bone" sketch, and then draw with a hard line to make the outline. Try perhaps sketching the outline of the body first, then draw the bones, and correct the outlline after than. Dont be afraid to draw multiple lines some places ... you dont need to draw with 1 big line each time...

http://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/pose29.jpg

Anurizm
03-15-2005, 06:24 PM
@swoop: alright I done it the way you suggested, I drew it first then I done the bone structure and made adjustments.

ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/05.jpg

sketch:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose30.jpg

hpslashluvr
03-15-2005, 10:51 PM
it'll help if you think of the hip area as the underwear and stuff, cuz like, i dunno why you'd draw circles there except for the butt, but it's not a back view...so think more like panties...gah i'll draw it for ya later

fundagenie
03-16-2005, 12:36 PM
Great thread...i did learn a few things....
Keep it going folks.....and thanks pascal and rest for giving such a lot a good useful advice....

FundaG

Anurizm
03-16-2005, 07:21 PM
another sketch, another day :)

ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/06.jpg

sketch:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose31.jpg

Swoop
03-16-2005, 10:01 PM
Well i did an overlay, of your image onto the reference, and it looks like this:

http://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/anatomy3.jpg

What i think mainly your problem is NOT looking at the reference enough. I heard that drawing from reference (any reference) is looking most of the time, and only drawing part of the time.
Try taking a look here at the reference agasint the sketch. The problem is proportions...
You seem to be drawing from memory rather than what you really see.
When you draw measure out what you draw as you go along... like after drawing the the face, use that measure to for instance the nect length, the width of the shoulders, length of the arm ect... always measure. As the drawing progresses you will be able to use other parts of the drawing for measurement... BUT the big drawback here is if you make mistakes in the other proportions you will make more mistakes if you use faulty size of measurement.

Also i want to reccomend you draw actual faces (or actualy outlines like they are on the references), as you will both get the angles better and also might give you a better insight to how the smaller details make out the general image. For instance try to really look at how the collar bones are shaped.. how they are individual, and the angles they are in on each reference.

Again i know im lecturing alot, but i hope it makes sense. Look rather than draw from what you think it's like... look alot more on the reference, and then draw what you see a little bit at a time...

Swoop
03-16-2005, 10:10 PM
here is this assignment, man I am slower than christmas :/ I spent way to long on these sketches than I was suppost to. but something are pulling together a bit better. slowly but surely :) I enjoy doing the work and study.

alright pascal here is today's assignment, I tried to get 5 in but somethings unfortunately came up.

http://cizel.com/%7Eanurizm/anatomy/pose14.jpg
http://cizel.com/%7Eanurizm/anatomy/pose15.jpg
http://cizel.com/%7Eanurizm/anatomy/pose16.jpg

I would like to say (since i was reading through this thread once more) that theese images look really good compared i must say. I mean nobody is forcing you to speed up your images just yet... focus on drawing the correct images, rather than doing it really really reallyy quickly. You will never be able to draw it good fast, if you dont know how to draw it correct first. So take your time, and then alter work on how fast you draw by doing alot of small time studies ... for now i would suggest you take the time you did on the above images since they look like you took more time measuring out the proportions, and drawing what you actually see rather than what you think it looks like :D

Suggestion: Try loosing the skeleton structure when drawing next time.. just focus on drawing the lines as they are... all the little details... no circles for hips, and no circles for joints.. just draw what you see... nothing more :D

fundagenie
03-17-2005, 06:00 AM
Hey guys and gals

Check out this link....if you already havent that is...

http://www.schlabber.org/piaa21/index.html

You can get some good poses by 3d models...even though some of the models are not that great still the poses are really good and can be used to draw some anatomy sketches.....

FundaG

Anurizm
03-18-2005, 10:27 AM
I am noticing a bit more improvement :) got kind of close on this one.

ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/07.jpg

sketch:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose32.jpg

Swoop
03-18-2005, 01:53 PM
The head is off... it's not tilted tnough, and the neck is too long mate ;)
Try to draw with more loose lines.. dont worry about there being multiple lines on the drawing.. ;) But getting better. Also noticed you kinda twisted her feet compared to the reference...

TheCleaner
03-18-2005, 10:20 PM
When doing life drawing, i try to place it on my canvas, so the figure will be seemingly central (doesnt apply as much to good old wacom+software of choice)

I proceed to put in the generic head shape, with plane lines. From there the spine.

Now, the shoulders, hips and knees are all pivotal points in the body.. i usually shot a line straight across representing this plane, and theoretically if you were to straighten all these lines to the horizontal, the figure would be up straight.

Now limbs.. straight lines, with circles for joints. now that stage which you will have completed is fundamental to the entire rest of the picture, and it has been mapping of proportions.

Its seems like at the moment your going straight in for the kill with the outline, and you end up drawing say a leg, straight onto plain surface, with no reference whatever.

If you start thinking in terms of bones and muscles (anatomy then).. you will get really good. because skin is nothing more than an overall surface for many muscles inside

The reason people work from nudes, and why its so successful.. because its bad enough (technically) with skin hiding individual muscles.. and if clothes hide the skin.. mapping in proper muscle and bone structure becomes hard

just my 0.02p (from the UK, hehe)

quick overlay of how id start.. obviously this is proprtionally correct, but nothing wrong with practicing drawing effectively stick men on top of photos of average people, to try and grasp proportion.. im still a learner myself, and am merely passing on what worked for me
http://img124.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img124&image=bonepose.jpg

Anurizm
03-19-2005, 11:12 AM
well I done as asked this round, I turned the image upside down, drew it loose as possible. so here you go :)

ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/09.jpg

sketch:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose33.jpg

fredlovebot
03-19-2005, 12:04 PM
What would be the the best way to learn when doing anatomy studies; having the picture on the side as you paint or studie the picture for some minutes and then paint?
I find the first way easier but maybe it won't give me as much as the second?

hpslashluvr
03-19-2005, 01:25 PM
i think when ppl say loose, they don't mean sketchier or lighter, they mean your lines must be confident and it's ok if your lines exactly the way you want, just draw a new line

but by turning the image over, print the image out, fold it in quarters, and do the same for your drawing paper...it doesn't work quite as well digitally...and then start drawing...dont' ever turn the image over...the object is to look at the negative space to know where to draw rather than thinking of the object itself upside down....that is why you fold it into quarters - to make it easier and to keep yourself from thinking it's a person or whatever...usually teachers use the portrait that picasso or someone drew for this...i'll see if i can find it

yonna
03-19-2005, 03:04 PM
Hey guys and gals

Check out this link....if you already havent that is...

http://www.schlabber.org/piaa21/index.html

You can get some good poses by 3d models...even though some of the models are not that great still the poses are really good and can be used to draw some anatomy sketches.....

FundaG
How do you open these .rsr and .pz2 files?

TheCleaner
03-19-2005, 06:59 PM
Its sometimes a very nasty shock to see your work when seen in a mirror, or if digital, flipped horizontally..
So, whenever sketching something like a face, have a mirror handy, to just check it every now and then.. its strange how you mind thinks something is correct, when it totally isnt

SheepFactory
03-20-2005, 06:36 AM
I have to say drawing those flat lighted heavily photoshopped maxim covers is not a good exercise for beginners , for one you cant see the forms and end up with flat drawings , its no substitute to drawing from life. Preferably with a model who is lighted properly.

Anurizm
03-20-2005, 07:54 AM
I agree, but unfortunately this is my only option :/ my area is really rural and no such things as life drawing classes, cafe's, or people willing to help you exist :(

Alexandrite
03-20-2005, 08:35 AM
I have to agree, there is nothing quite like having a real human model to draw. The source images being used here are of "perfect" females, and humans come in all shapes and sizes. It isnt necessarily best to learn to draw by drawing "perfect" people.

I realize your problem with living in a rural area, but this is where you could turn to books about drawing, as well as asking others (which you are doing here, and it's great to see everyone's advice and suggestions! :) ). Some excellent drawing books have been recommended in this thread already. However, also look at the works of other artists, especially the old Renaissance masters if you want realism (and "non-perfect" models ;) ), looking at the ways someone else found to draw the human body may help you find your own way in drawing it as well.

Taking drawing classes helps with the basics greatly. In my university drawing classes, we started studying the human body by studying the skeleton, one of our fun assignments was to get a photograph or sketch a model very dark in charcoal, in any pose, then take an eraser, and erase in the outlines of the bones as they should be in that pose. Turns out a little like an X-ray picture. :)

After we were more comfortable with drawing the skeletal structure, and began to study the muscles and planes of the body, another assignment was to draw the human figure using only straight lines to describe the simplified shapes of the body, and how they all connect together. I've attached an example below.

A suggestion to help you draw more "loosely" is to take a little ink or watercolour paint, and draw using a brush instead of the pencil. Take a brush you can comfortably hold in your hand (not too huge and bushy, but not so tiny either that you have your nose right up to the paper making fine lines!). And take a large piece of paper, because small pieces of sketchbook paper immediately put you in the "must draw using tiny lines and little details" mode, therefore looking at details more than overall proportions. A larger piece of paper at arm's length away from you may help you see your drawing as a whole, and a brush is something that is, again, not so precise, that you can play around with more than you could with a thin pencil. Another thing to consider using, is charcoal, smudging which is really great for when you get into drawing shadows on the body.

Good luck! :)

And keep posting your progress!

Anurizm
03-20-2005, 11:04 AM
a bit more improvement if I do say so myself :D yes, this one is still off, but I notice I am getting closer and closer \m/

ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/10.jpg

sketch:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose34.jpg

leigh
03-21-2005, 05:34 AM
I have to say drawing those flat lighted heavily photoshopped maxim covers is not a good exercise for beginners , for one you cant see the forms and end up with flat drawings , its no substitute to drawing from life. Preferably with a model who is lighted properly.

Yes I agree with that. So far you've been drawing from pics and I think it's time to draw from life.
You don't necessarily even have to worry about finding human models yet - look around you and choose a subject, whether it's an object in your room or whatever, and draw that.
And when you want to draw people, why not ask one of your parents or a sibling?

Drawing from pictures only teaches you about shapes. Drawing from life teaches you about form, definition, lighting, etc.

Anurizm
03-21-2005, 11:33 AM
after being explained, I now know what you all meant by being loose :D so here is a loose sketch.

ref:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/ref/11.jpg

sketch:
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose35.jpg

hpslashluvr
03-21-2005, 01:53 PM
it's an excuse that a lot of ppl have, not being able to take a life drawing class...here a few ppl just hired someone to sit for a couple of hrs for two sessions for not very much money...but the thing is, most ppl just draw ppl they see in real life, usually the people are moving, or only stay still for a minute...that's the thing to getting someone "real" - showing a great pose that may not be moving, but yet it feels like it is...

look at ca.org's sketchbooks, here's a random one, they all have diff techniques, try posting on their helpful critique or technique forum if you haven't already...

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18792

Swizzle
03-21-2005, 04:17 PM
I have to agree with Leigh on this one. Sit down and draw the objects you see around you if you can't get a human model. Just do a bunch of five-minute sketches on a big piece of paper. Then find the ones you liked drawing, find the ones that had some quality of line that you really liked and want to duplicate, find the ones that you thought were the best of all of them and try to duplicate them in more five-minute sketches. Then do it again.

You really shouldn't draw faces on these sketches that you've been doing. Focus on the overall form and forget the details; draw the shape of the head, but not the facial features. Maybe put a couple of lines in where you want details, but don't actually try to draw noses and eyes and things on these sketches. You should focus on facial structure after you learn to draw the general form.

Alexandrite
03-21-2005, 10:32 PM
Good stuff, defiitely getting better. :) you are getting the feel of just drawing the overall shape, rather than focusing on each outline and how it connects to the next line.

I'm glad you found a reference of a "real" person to work from.

My only comments would be, you got the sketchy lines and the feel of the pose, now for your next drawing, try noting where the weight of the body rests. In this case, it rests on her right arm which the model has put vertically behind her. In your drawing, maybe it's just the scan being slightly tilted, but the arm seems at an angle. For the next drawing you do, try first sketching in lines to mark where you believe the weight of the body is supported, and note the angle at which those limbs are positioned.

You are improving, though. Don't give up! ;)

Anurizm
03-23-2005, 06:19 AM
more sketches :)

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose36.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose37.jpg

Swoop
03-23-2005, 08:57 AM
I see amazing improvement.. just the lines look much better, and you are getting alot of good detail as well... keep it up.
Only crit now is the shape of the heads .. looks a little small (could be because they havent got hair ect). But amazing improvement i think :D

shyamshriram
03-23-2005, 09:17 AM
WOW.... What a great Thread friend !! u r improving yeah...keep it up ! i must appriciate all the members who r helping ...hats off to u all !
i've never seen this kinda great thread ! pls keep posting !!
the show must go on !! learning is endless !!!:bounce:

Anurizm
03-23-2005, 09:36 AM
thanks everyone :) I am getting there slowly, but surely. I appreciate the support also.

Anurizm
03-23-2005, 11:14 AM
here's another set.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose38.jpg

ms@zx
03-23-2005, 11:28 AM
great improvement mate!keep it up

fredlovebot
03-23-2005, 03:44 PM
Anurizm: Can't see any of your images anymore :/ Is it just me?

Thanks to this thread I been painting a little more figures recently. And I really need to improve on doing figures. Is it ok if I post some sketches here asking for critisism, tips etc? I thought it would be a good idea instead of creating a new topic with the same purpose :)

Anurizm
03-24-2005, 05:41 AM
Anurizm: Can't see any of your images anymore :/ Is it just me?

Thanks to this thread I been painting a little more figures recently. And I really need to improve on doing figures. Is it ok if I post some sketches here asking for critisism, tips etc? I thought it would be a good idea instead of creating a new topic with the same purpose :)

yeah please do post some stuff :) sorry about the images not showing hosting server switched DNS's so I'll have the images back up A.S.A.P.

fredlovebot
03-24-2005, 08:54 AM
Alright, im going to post some stuff later today. Im out of school for a whole week now so you will hopefully see alot of stuff from me :)

The pictures are up again!

blindsleeper
03-25-2005, 05:44 AM
You are absolutely improving, however, i wouldnt suggest using photos to start off with, especially while trying to grasp anatomy. its difficult stuff, and photos tend to lie, they flatten things and transfer shadows oddly. Instead i would most certainly suggest finding a family member, friend, girlfriend who doesnt mind sitting down for a while so you can do several gestural sketches, limit yourself to 5-10 minutes maximum each. This may seem counter productive at first but only concentrate on form, not specific features. After doing many many of these you will see a vast improvement in your drawing. in addition having a live model allows a much better reference than any photo.

Anurizm
04-01-2005, 10:42 AM
even though it doesn't matter at this point anymore, I have been doing basic drawing as suggested by my good ol buddeh Soeren Nielson so that I can improve my eye and hand coordination, here are a few anat sketches I tryed my hand at this week. don't expect to see anatomy sketches on a regular basis from me like before at the moment, i'm having to learn some basics, but I will try to do a few from time to time. anyways here are the sketches.

heh, just noticed on the 2nd sketch I forgot to erase the bottom foot :/
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose39.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose40.jpg

Cole
04-01-2005, 11:18 AM
I think one of your biggest problems is that you are not confident in drawing the lines as a single stroke, but rather are drawing them very slow or maybe in short little dashes. One of the best ways to learn to make more confident lines is to take a large piece of paper, like a 22x30" newsprint pad is great, and randomly draw dots all over the page, then take a pen and pick 3 dots fairly far apart (8-20 inches) that are NOT in a straight line and just make one fast stroke to try to hit the curve between those points you chose. Never use more than one stroke for the curve. When you run out of points make a new dot paper and practice more, and soon you will be much more confident drawing long lines quickly. When you can hit 3 dots over 15 inches every single time you can start doing more complicated curves with 4+ dots and after a while you can use this to practice varying the weight of your lines also. This technique really helped me get away from the "dashed line" syndrome when I was learning how to draw.

ZuraK
04-01-2005, 03:51 PM
Interesting thread, feels like i shold try and learn from this thread... rather then trying to paint something epic... The most useful i think i've learned so far as an hobby-artist (Or something), it would be to draw characters starting with just lines (Those with circles as joints). But after that i often end up in a standstill. I feel it easy to get the proportions more acurate, and the character is easier to change, when i have the base completed i start sketching on the bodymass etc. And finally i add clothing and stuff. I'm not sure if it's a really good way of working but atleast it gives a overview of how the character would look like when its finished. I also think all artistst have different ways of working...

Did i say something useful or was it all rubbish? =)

(Z)

Anurizm
04-04-2005, 04:09 AM
here are some more, still lacking volume and on the 2nd page her breast are lop sided :/

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose41.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose42.jpg

Ginsu
04-04-2005, 06:01 AM
Excellent work. Getting better and better!:thumbsup:

Anurizm
04-04-2005, 09:41 AM
here are some volume sketches that someone from the pencil suggest I start doing. so expect some more like these for a few days or so.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose43.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose44.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose45.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose46.jpg

Ginsu
04-05-2005, 06:00 AM
The only advice that I could give on the last few drawings you did would be this:

Use less strokes and longer lines. It will give the figures a more fluid look. And again, vary the line weights. Start thick and end thin or vice versa. But keep up the good work.

dioxide
04-05-2005, 11:49 AM
The problem is that youre not studying anatomy, you are just drawing what you think people look like. If youre still having trouble with all the info provided here, i suggest you start drawing muscles and/or skeletons, or try focusing on specific ligaments of the human body.

jmBoekestein
04-06-2005, 12:33 AM
How about drawing the actual muscles and bonmes without skin? It helps more than these basic volumes. They lack the "resolution" necessary for doing good geometry.

SpudStudios
04-06-2005, 08:41 AM
I can see the improvement here as you progress. I think you are possibly spending to long trying to capture your images. I used to find a great technique for learning the dynamics and form of a body was to try to complete a sketch about 3 inches high of a figure using just simple lines. You will be amazed at how after only a few hours ( around one hundred little drawings) you begin to get a feel for anatomy and proportion. I'm talking no more than 30 seconds a figure. break them down into "Buscema" style.

One you understand the basic shapes then you can worry about volumes and detail.
Still good progress. keep posting.

Anurizm
04-06-2005, 10:37 AM
well here we go, I have decided to start with the skull again and work my way down. since it was suggested by dioxide and jmBoekestein.

@ginsu: I will start trying to use less strokes :)

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull06.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull07.jpg
vbmenu_register("postmenu_2132288", true);

Anurizm
04-06-2005, 12:08 PM
done some more before I go to bed, expect to see quite a few of these and untill I get them proportionate too.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull08.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull09.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull10.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull11.jpg

jmBoekestein
04-06-2005, 01:26 PM
Here's what I imagine when drawing. It's not accurate because I've never seen the inside of a human.
But it's all the volumes I can remember to be predominant in a human. And it helps me a lot. That's why I suggested it.
base layer:
http://img102.exs.cx/img102/8862/anurizmpass17ii.jpg
added skin:
http://img17.exs.cx/img17/1859/anurizmpass20uu.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
basic result after ten minutes:
http://img17.exs.cx/img17/9551/anurizmpass31ql.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

jmBoekestein
04-06-2005, 01:31 PM
Blast I've made a silly misstake on the butt muscles, they strap outwards. Sorry about that!

Anurizm
04-07-2005, 09:35 AM
another set

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull12.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull13.jpg

Swoop
04-07-2005, 01:43 PM
Teeth look extremely small.. perhaps just me, but you seem to draw basically the same proportions each time.. working from photo reference for the dimensions ? Because seems to be you are a bit off on the scale ;)

MathieuV
04-07-2005, 02:36 PM
Hi.

I think you're making progress, slowly but surely.

First off I think you should try and using real reference. If you draw a skull don't use images, go buy yourself a plastic skull, If you want to learn anatomy try looking at anatomy statues like the one at freedom-of-teach.com and lastly use yourself as reference all the time.

Aout your drawing style, The main thing I would suggest is you try to use as few lines and try to make them as fluently as possible.

In art school, the first time I drew from life. I drew like you did at the beginning of this thread, then my teacher wich is a great guy, took my three pencils I had and my eraser and therw them in the garbage bin. He said that I had to draw with another medium. So I used charcoal, and I drew on a bigger size than the A4 copy paper I had. This a great exercise. After that I tried using a Drawing Pen and Chinese Ink. This had the advantage ( or disadvantage you can say ) that once you placed a line you couldn't go back.No erasing and that is what I would suggest to. Put your eraser somewhere you won't be able to find it ever again and draw in one line the entire outline of the subject. ( You can stop from time to time offcourse ).

As for the latest drawing, your major problem is proportion. You should really know how big the ( for example ) the zygomatic bones are versus the eyehole. But the major thing is that you try not to add details at your first drawings. Getting the proportion of a skull, the form and mass right is the first step, I remember drawing hundred's of skull's with just the outline before even placing one feature on them.

These are some of my older drawings with pen and ink ( 2-5 min each )

http://users.telenet.be/softlife/skulldrawings.jpg

Try looking at the shape as a whole , start somewhere like the top of the skull look very closely how the lines run down the contour and then draw them in one fluent way, you can't offcourse remember the entire contour of a skull but you can divide it. And draw every line seperatly.

And the best tip of them all.

" If you draw a skull 500 times you can draw it with no reference "

Ciao
Keep on drawing
Vierendeel Mathieu

Anurizm
04-07-2005, 03:32 PM
@Mathieu Vierendeel (http://cgtalk.com/member.php?u=97530): thanks for the insight, unfortunately I can't afford any of those accessories. I am beginning to just drop the whole study and my artist desire in general which I am gradually losing. I don't have the finances to put into this, I have a few books but it seems they aren't doing much good. but I will keep at it untill I am just tired of it.

here are some more

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull14.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull15.jpg
vbmenu_register("postmenu_2139112", true);

InterFacer
04-07-2005, 05:05 PM
Hey anurizm, i've been watching this thread for awhile and your improvement is amazing!

DON'T STOP due to finances. Seriously look at your first drawings and where you are now and look at the improvements you have made! You have really made leaps and bounds in your anatomical understandings as well as your skills. Most beginning artists do not the enthusiasm or dedication you have shown. I really encourage you to keep going in the direction you are. Remember that art is as much about seeing as it is about confidence and being able to put your mediums down on paper. Your vision and abilities have improved quite exponentially!

Good luck and I hope you continue your venture in this study!

Anurizm
04-08-2005, 11:14 AM
here's another one, done something a bit diff this time (used a ruler and opened the ref image in PS using the ruler in it also and measured)

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull16.jpg

Swoop
04-08-2005, 11:46 AM
Again im tempted to say that the teeth are too small ? Just seems really miniature compared to the rest...
Keep drawing dude.. nice to see people sticking with it ..

Anurizm
04-08-2005, 06:25 PM
Again im tempted to say that the teeth are too small ? Just seems really miniature compared to the rest...
Keep drawing dude.. nice to see people sticking with it ..

yeah I didn't put to much focus on the teeth, I was mainly after proportion and shape.

Anurizm
04-10-2005, 06:50 AM
here's another, I may post some more later.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull17.jpg

Anurizm
04-10-2005, 11:24 AM
i'm a tid bit pleased with these.
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull18.jpg

Kargokultti
04-10-2005, 05:31 PM
Hey, before you forgo food and get you that plastic skull, remember that you have plenty of
free anatomy to draw: e.g. your hand. Or your foot. Or use a mirror. But the hand is a good
place to start because it's difficult. And you'd want difficult in order to improve. Photographs
are already 2D, so they're too easy.

Think about the camera: it only has one lens. Most artists tend to have two eyes, so what
you see is always different from what the camera sees. So, images made by people with two
eyes are always 2D representations of things that they've actually seen in 3D.

There's plenty of good advice here, but that's also a big problem. E.g. some of the earlier
skulls seem to work better as independent drawings than the later skulls. But on the other
hand, skulls 4 and 5 show much better that you shouldn't quit this thing here.

It seems to me that you're getting swamped. You need guts to draw exactly how you want.
You can never draw what somebody else wants, so it's up to you to know what you want.
And believe me, even if all you ever wanted was to draw your version of the ideal female
body over and over again - sorry, but it seems a bit like that judging from your reference
material - starting from your hand will help you. Draw it 50 times, with thought, wait a few
days, look at the drawings, and I'll bet you'll be further on your way than any amount of
words will ever get you.

And you don't need expensive things. A thicker pencil, HB or softer is a nice thing to have,
as is a big notebook of some nice art-paper. But a ballpoint pen and copy-paper is just as
good, maybe even better because you definitely get to find you own way with those. And I'd
just forget the plastic skull. Draw a face when you want to learn how to draw faces.

HughieDM
04-10-2005, 09:21 PM
Ive been watch your thread for a while and I say you cant stop

Reasons
- your getting better
- your getting alot better
- and I flat out injoy watching it

All I have to say is keep doing what your doing
every one lurns in there own way and your doing just fine
take in the c&c you like and keep trucking
Keep it up:thumbsup: :bounce: :bounce:

blindsleeper
04-11-2005, 05:58 AM
keep going! you are improving!

Anurizm
04-11-2005, 09:13 AM
here's some more of that dinner you all seem to like.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull19.jpg

dioxide
04-13-2005, 03:04 AM
Your main problem is that you are not even trying to draw. You just seem to post what you got on your first attempt. I suggest you try using that eraser of yours and perfect what youve already drawn.

Anurizm
04-13-2005, 05:38 AM
Your main problem is that you are not even trying to draw. You just seem to post what you got on your first attempt. I suggest you try using that eraser of yours and perfect what youve already drawn.

I'll take your word for it. they may look like first try sketches, but they aren't.

Swoop
04-13-2005, 07:43 AM
I think he is trying to help.. not insult... i know sometimes it can be a fine line, but keep and open mind. What i think he is trying to say is that it perhaps looks a little like the drawings are first try.. not say corrected if you discover some major error like say the jaw is too big or something. Dont worry about the line quality, dont worry about the fine details.. just get proportions correct... thats the only way to make details look good. Like for instance when i pointed out the teeth looked small, i actually meant that the teeth need to proper size, instead of some detail you add in the end. Dont need to be hyper detailed, but needs to be the correct size ;)

Anywyas to help a little in the thread and possibly get some feedback im posting some of my drawings from a recent 2 hours croquis class. The model only stod in each pose untill time ran out... awsome way to learn to draw the human form quickly. Im going once a week now untill i can draw it perfectly ;)
Anyways here are some of the 1 to 3 minute drawings... :

http://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/life_13.jpg
http://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/life_09.jpg

And now for some of the 10 - 15 minute poses... i like them much better, but i also did alot of proportion errors.. like make him too wide. Wider at the bottom than at the top ect ...

http://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/life_07.jpghttp://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/life_06.jpg
http://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/life_03.jpg
http://www.reflection-design.dk/temp/life_04.jpg

raijinnfury
04-13-2005, 03:40 PM
I posted a lot earlier in this thread and i must say that I am impressed! You have come such a long way from your earlier sketches! Bravo! :)

Your sketches are coming along nicely and don't give up! I do have some advice that you may want to take into consideration, though. If you want to have your sketches pop off and look really nice, consider this.

Do not be afraid to fail. Don't go into a drawing thinking your going to fail but try to just give it your best shot. Even top artists have bad days where drawings, paintings, etc. just look bad. But if you fail, no worries, you can always do another drawing. :thumbsup:

Secondly, look inside of everything you draw, beneath the surface. When drawing the body, it helps tremendously to understand how muscles work and where they are situated. If money is an issue, you can go to any old encyclopedia and look up musculature on the human body. It won't be as well displayed as a drawing book but it will be a good start.

Thirdly, feel each line. Truly feel it even though that sounds kind of lame. Here's an exercise you can do. Draw the same skull or body that you have been drawing. But draw big and with your whole arm as if you are literally throwing each line. You can even practice this by putting down two points on opposite sides of a page. Start at one point and in one quick swift motion, throw your line over towards the other point. It is great practice in my opinion and teaches you to be almost violent with your liines instead of being too careful.

Hopefully this helps you in your quest! hehe I love this thread though, keep on going with it! I'll check back for any updates!

Anurizm
04-14-2005, 09:59 AM
@furry: thanks for the support and suggestion :)

Here are some more sketches, still trying to get proportion and shape a bit better. also done some side views.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull20.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull21.jpg
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/skull22.jpg

and here are some cubes as suggested by imashination.
http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/cubes.jpg

shyamshriram
04-14-2005, 11:48 AM
Hey dude i must appriciate ur efforts ! u have lots of patience, but i want to tell one thing, try to undersand the construction rather than the outer shape of skull or body or whatever the form. try to study each and every part separetaly, it will be very helpful when u draw the complete figure. do more drawings instead of sketching, if u have the knowledge of detailed drawing then u can sketch easily, someone pls correct me if im talking wrong... but this is my personal exprience.
anways keep it up ! its really really great thread u started here.

take care
shyam

shyamshriram
04-15-2005, 05:02 AM
I hope this will be helpful for u bro :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/shyamshriram/Hand-Study.jpg

Anurizm
04-15-2005, 11:20 AM
here are some more

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/c1.jpg

allelement
04-15-2005, 10:08 PM
there's a lot of good material in this thread.

dioxide
04-15-2005, 10:57 PM
Hmm if you really are trying hard to draw them, then i would suggest not drawing from a profile or straight up front. Try a different angle never front or side.

[EDIT]
Here i scanned this from a anatomy book. All pictures here are sketched and its also in russian, but thats beside the point. The whole anatomy excercise helps you orient yourself with how a human looks like. Anyway you can try and draw this.

http://img49.echo.cx/img49/1482/anatomy1ag.jpg

hpslashluvr
04-15-2005, 11:30 PM
hey dude! you're getting a lot better! i would try buying some tracing paper and make a promise to not sit and fuss about the details...make a lot of confident bold strokes, then after you do a set, then try it without the tracing paper

Robert Longfield
04-16-2005, 02:37 AM
Yeah, you are coming along nicley. What I did to help with drawign the human form, I picked up Greys Anatomy book. Great referance material!!

devilboi
04-16-2005, 06:31 AM
I hope that this advice will be useful. It is a matter of opinion but I have got the best results from trying to reproduce the body from the exterior first. If you want to learn it from the inside out thats a good start but just study the underlying structure for your own understanding don't spend all of your time drawing it the layers of fat make people appear quite a bit different with skin. Only emaciated (not sure if that is spelled right) people will look like that.

Spend the best of your time drawing the exterior. Drawing people is a matter of memorizing proportions. You will rarely get the oppertunity to illistrate the inside of the body unless you specialize in that. The skill is deffinately good to have so don't get me wrong. But I believe it is much more efficient to begin by memorizing proportions they will be constant in any body type.

Refferences I love are:

www.saveloomis.org (http://www.saveloomis.org/) Look for the book "Figure Drawing for all it's Worth" on the site. It is free and is a gold mine of knowlege. One of the more thurough refference books I've seen. Don't pass it by it is FREE FOR DOWNLOAD. It's not flashy and it's from the 40s but it's proportional info is excellent. As for attractive faces and style look to some one like J. Scott Campbell and use Loomis just for the figure refference.

Don't forget the face, it is what makes someone attractive. Any one can draw a sexy body but a great face is unforgettable. So look for artist's that continually illistrate georgous faces with great expression. Get the Danger Girl Graphic Novel by J.Scott Campbell.

Once you master these elements study facial expression and body language for the feeling of natural human interaction in your drawings. I like The Artist's Complete Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin. It is accurate and has a scientific approach in which facial muscles react in different emotions. In particular I love how he points out typicly misillistrated expressions and why they feel unnatural. His style looks traditional is not stylized but you can learn style else where. This info is mandetory to draw believablly.

When you understand these concepts you will be free to draw what ever you can imagine with continuity and realism. Understanding the underlying muscle structure is good for knowlege and deffinately good to be able to draw. I would start by reference of whole people. If anything, it is less intimidating and is more encouraging at the begining to draw something that you get more direct results from. Which keeps it fun and is what keeps you drawing in the long run.

Blackgeni
04-16-2005, 08:41 AM
You are improving alot :thumbsup: .

Drawing from references really help in the beginning as you get familiar with what looks right and what's not.And the hint about tracing paper really works , it's much easier. I'm pretty new to sketching and I do it too. I first set some dots on the paper for the correct anatomy and then I begin sketching you can't go wrong there :)

Anurizm
04-17-2005, 05:38 AM
I'm getting a bit looser and slowly getting control of my lines.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose47.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose48.jpg

Anurizm
04-28-2005, 10:49 AM
new dump

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose49.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose50.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose51.jpg

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose52.jpg

NOOB!
04-28-2005, 10:09 PM
its proportions that are holding u back,not *anatomy*

u need to learn how much of what goes where,how long the arms shud be,how big the head is etc. before u start trying to lay down muscles.

Desert-of-Seth
04-29-2005, 09:32 AM
I think people who has replied to this thread pointed out the best ways of improving in anatomy.

But,what i want to know is your goal in learning anatomy.Do you want to create full pictures,with lights,shadows,background etc,OR do you just want to learn anatomy itself?

Anurizm
04-29-2005, 11:35 AM
I think people who has replied to this thread pointed out the best ways of improving in anatomy.

But,what i want to know is your goal in learning anatomy.Do you want to create full pictures,with lights,shadows,background etc,OR do you just want to learn anatomy itself?

I want to learn anatomy to make some cool concepts and pieces :)

Desert-of-Seth
04-29-2005, 11:44 AM
I want to learn anatomy to make some cool concepts and pieces :)

then,composition is an important factor,too.You can work on backgrounds,rather than leaving an artwork unfinished :)

Onto the anatomy thing;Have you ever tried drawing "little squares" on both the reference photo and the paper you will draw on? After drawing squares,you can easily draw proportions,without making up the body lines :)

Anurizm
05-01-2005, 11:48 AM
working on proportions more.

http://cizel.com/~anurizm/anatomy/pose53.jpg

qur
05-01-2005, 01:18 PM
nicely going wip
i'm very impressed about your steps.:applause:

but if you whant to improve your drawings:

try to relax don't be stressd to do perfect.
dont hold time . try to draw correct anatomy don't be afraid about the time .
nobody is taking you in an exam for time.

try to draw with long strokes not with that tiny ones.
use all of your arm when you r drawing not only your hand.

and use live references not a photo.

i think these will help you.

drawing is like speaking a language .
more you speak more you get used to it and do much better.

i'll be watcing this thread.

and you r going great.:thumbsup:
keep it up

ErikSvensson
05-01-2005, 02:02 PM
One thing my art teacher told me that is good to think of is, "the line as a shadow", so you try to think "what happens if i place a line there?", so if you think "Oh, i put a line here for the abs, does it make the feeling of an ab?" , probably not, it would just look like a messed up line that dont at all resable of what you were making, or maybe cartoony, so think of the line as a shadow, not a line as a line or contur exept if you makes the silhouette by it, then you can make great progress for further images.

//Erik

satch919
05-01-2005, 03:40 PM
Great progress! I can definitely see the improvement. Keep at it.

jmBoekestein
05-01-2005, 11:13 PM
Definitely improving fast man, this is just fun to watch I tell you.:thumbsup:

hpslashluvr
05-02-2005, 08:52 AM
While you're improving on anatomy, a lot of ppl have again brought up that you need to improve the way you draw your lines. They have become a lot looser, and not as sketchy, but they still aren't shouting 'confidence' when someone looks at them.

two more tips:

look at negative space. this will improve your observation skills tons. a lot of times you tell yourself that the arm is so and so wide and at so and so angle...but then you look at the negative space and it's all wrong. The left image is the "original", and the right, is, with some imagination, the negative space that is around the actual person. ok, this is a really bad example but i'm about to sleep and don't wanna find a good pic...it's more useful when the person has the legs apart or the arms doing something where you can imagine say, a modified rectangle between the arm and the chest, etc etc.

http://img151.echo.cx/img151/1391/shade9uu.jpg

another thing. someone mentioned something about lines and shadows...well, i think it goes something like there aren't really real lines in life, it's just dark shadows...or...ok i dunno, but another method that you should really consider is shading parts of the image (typically not all of it, unless you use something that would look cool like charcoal) like this:
http://img55.echo.cx/img55/5848/shade21he.jpg
Again, sorry for sucky sucky pic but it's like 4 AM here lol. Anyhoo, shading around the figure not only pops it out and creates more contrast, but also gets rid of that outlined look. it's more natural, according to that "there are no real lines" theory that i'm sure i've totally explained wrong. Make sure that you only shade where the actual drawing (ex: the body) is really light. Dark bg and light figure = contrast. Dark bg + dark figure = can't tell the fricking diff between the bg and figure, etc etc. It goes the other way around, if the figure is dark, keep the paper clean (if it's done traditionally) and white next to where it is really dark.

You may try starting really dark. To do this, get a soft pencil (AKA not a mechanical or something that when you write you can barely see, if you go to an art store, this means get bigger numbers...ebonies are really nice pencils but don't use it in this case, they're too hard to erase) or use some charcoal sticks (the big chunky kinds), preferably (it's easier). Use the side of the pencil, at an angle, and basically color in the white paper with it in a flat even tone. You can get a tissue and blend the grey together. Don't use your finger if you don't have to, your fingers have oils that make colors turn either really light or dark and it's impossible to erase. The great thing about using charcoal is that it makes the process go soooooooooo much faster. However, make sure to color in lightly if using charcoal, you don't want a soot black page that will take a lot of effort to erase all 80 layers off. Rub the color together evenly with a tissue or blender, also. Here's the first two steps, coloring and blending:
http://img12.echo.cx/img12/4702/step14xh.jpghttp://img12.echo.cx/img12/2733/step20cv.jpg

Ok, try to make the lines go the same way. Actually it doesn't matter, but you'll prolly get a nasty smeary look like mine is hehe. Try playing with the textures, it doesn't have to be smooth. And paper is important. I set the paper text too high on Painter, but a boring picture can be turned cool if you have some really neat texture or pattern work woven into it. Btw, make sure that if you're doing this on actual paper that you go out and spend a few more bucks buying some REAL paper. Not saying you have to buy top notch but notebook paper/comp paper just doesn't cut it. Well, it works, but anyhoo...

Then...draw whatever. This is supposed to be a vase, but I could care less. If you're hesitant about not being able to erase, go buy some vine charcoal. It's great for sketching in stuff, it's cheap as hell, and it rubs right off. Taking that into mind, don't draw something only in vine charcoal....it'll rub right off like I just said...So, after you've gone thru in real pencil or real charcoal (again try buying sticks or chunky charcoal types, the pencils are great for little detail drawings...but you should work on gesture drawings etc.), then take an eraser (kneaded erasers are good for charcoal, and fun to play with if you're really really bored...) and erase all the HIGHLIGHTS aka white areas.
http://img84.echo.cx/img84/8007/step30xe.jpghttp://img84.echo.cx/img84/4918/step41tq.jpg
I overdid the white next to dark thing, but you can see where I was going earlier with that line/shadow explanation. And I sort of cheated, cuz I put in a lot of blacks instead of just erasing. I'm sure you're supposed to do both anyways. Ta da! You've gone the opposite route and erased all the highlights instead of shading in all the darks. Some ppl think this is easier. Personally I hate it, but it's fast and easy and cheap.

And finally, I stress, GO OUT AND LOOK AT REAL PPL. I made up some gesture drawings off the top of my head, and my sense of anatomy/proportions sucks, but we can pretend I went to the park, sat down on a bench, and drew some ppl playing around and laying on the grass.
http://img155.echo.cx/img155/1126/step51ju.jpg
Yeah, people might move a lot. Hell, you will prolly want to kick someone for moving every two seconds. But gesture drawings can take anywhere from 15 seconds to a few minutes. Gesture, as in, hinting at the figure. Most likely, the drawings will look like complete s***. A lot of really good artists mess up, b/c it's in such a short time frame. But after a few pages of gestures, you'll get really into it and your arm will be all loosened up and the proportions will start to look better, and the poses will look more natural. Then, say if the person laying down takes a nap, then you can do an extended gesture drawing, for 15 minutes or whatever - laying in the details. Again, they'll prolly look really crappy, but later on when you sit down and draw from a photograph or whatever, the figure won't be so stiff.

Again, sorry if I sound really sarcastic and ranty, but I hope it helps!

MrBean
09-26-2005, 06:08 PM
Just wanted to say that your thread rocks dude =P
Iīm learning a lot here, hope u donīt give up on us

Keep it up

Ginsu
09-27-2005, 03:56 AM
Holy thread revival batman! I havn't been to this forum in so long. You should feel honored, your the only reason I come back to this forum! :)

Rebeccak
01-08-2006, 02:15 PM
Some great feedback and progress here! :)

Hope to see some more work.

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Ginsu
01-08-2006, 05:37 PM
Great! This thread is getting back on track! Go Go Buffalo!!!

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