CGTalk - Reason for not relasing a demo

pwallin

01-16-2005, 02:02 PM

They haven't released a demo 'cause then everyone would get in on it - modo is waaaay too cool for everyone to be using it - just the enlightened ones :thumbsup:

I think my reason was a possible fact even covered with a bit of humour. Some serious reasons next, please?

tobsterius

01-16-2005, 02:31 PM

I think they should absolutely release a demo. I've been waiting to try this thing ever since it was released but the $700 price tag or whatever it is, is a lot to drop on a program you never used. It bothers me when companies do not release demos. Make it a timed demo if need be. I would just like to try before I make a big purchase like this.

ok, rant over :) I'm going with the bug theory. From what I've read on the forums, the 1.0 release has been a big buggy.

Beamtracer

01-16-2005, 02:56 PM

They've said they're working on it. Security issues need to be accounted for.

Aegis Prime

01-16-2005, 03:31 PM

Modo was released too soon and therefore has so much of bugs.

I'm going with the bug theory. From what I've read on the forums, the 1.0 release has been a big buggy.

Don't believe everything you read... Whilst it seems there's still a few modo users having problems (TrexGreg in particular seems to be having issues) modo is very stable and relatively bug-free for a 1.0 release.

For a while it was cursed by driver issues (nVidia's fault) but they've since been resolved. I'm happily using modo as a replacement for LightWave's Modeler at both home and work and honestly can't remember the last time I had a crash (sad to note I can't say the same of LightWave) - of course, this doesn't mean that modo is perfect (what app is?) and your mileage may vary - check out Luxology's website for a list of bug-fixes in 102.

Regarding the demo, I agree that it's a fair amount of cash to spend on a program you haven't tried but then again, I never had the opportunity to "try before you buy" but it didn't matter - the great videos that Lux has put out showing the package in use were enough for me to make a decision and I'm pretty sure that most of the modo users on this forum would recommend modo to you without hesitation...

MunCHeR

01-16-2005, 03:52 PM

Regarding the demo, I agree that it's a fair amount of cash to spend on a program you haven't tried but then again, I never had the opportunity to "try before you buy" but it didn't matter - the great videos that Lux has put out showing the package in use were enough for me to make a decision and I'm pretty sure that most of the modo users on this forum would recommend modo to you without hesitation...

Right on Aegis Prime, I totally agree, I was just tickled at some of the new ways of doing things, and saving hours making blend shapes, is your time worth money? Hey I could have bought a lawn mower with the money, but I'd rather be sucking on a beer playing with modo than mowing the lawns, you're choice and I guess the lux guys will release a demo once they have some bugs and user requests sorted out, thats just what I call good prioritising.

MunCH

xtrudeh

01-16-2005, 06:08 PM

A lawn mower, or maybe a new hedger... always good to work with new lawn and garden tools... first pull starts are bliss eh ;) :D

yog

01-16-2005, 07:17 PM

I think my reason was a possible fact .....
Don't believe everything you think ;)

TrexGreg

01-16-2005, 08:34 PM

Don't believe everything you read... Whilst it seems there's still a few modo users having problems (TrexGreg in particular seems to be having issues) modo is very stable and relatively bug-free for a 1.0 release...

Most of my issues are when i try to modify the interface; draging and rearranging menus. Having one config file for all menus, keyboard shortcuts and Modo's settings is a handicap imho, cause if something goes wrong you have to scrap the whole config and start from the begining. More than three times Modo crashed during a "save config" command, resulting in a corrupted and useless config. Backup configs is now a daily process.

On the other hand, during modeling sessions Modo is as stable as the competition...

Regards,

crossbones

01-16-2005, 10:40 PM

YOu guys are going to slame me but Modo works fantastic on my ATI Radeon 9800 pro and in dual head (hydravision) I might add. I have never had a crash in modo and I've done a great deal with it.

MadMax

01-16-2005, 10:55 PM

I think my reason was a possible fact even covered with a bit of humour. Some serious reasons next, please?

As someone who dropped money on Modo I'd say your comments are totally off base.

While there is no such thing as perfect software, Modo doesn't exhibit any more propensity for crashing or instability than any other program. If anything I have managed to avoid LW bugs that caused loss of data and frequent crashes by using Modo. Bugs that Newtek is aware of and have been present in the program since version 6!!

Not only did Luxology provide a very good initial release, they have followed up with a major upgrade in less than a six month addressing some issues and adding a large array of extra features.

Personally I couldn't be happier. I didn't need no steenkin' demo ;)

tunedby

01-17-2005, 12:11 AM

I like this quotes form the luxology website about the "real news":
"Based on user feedback we have made improvements to various tools, added some much requested features and cleaned up issues with stability and correctness. While the features are more fun to talk about, increasing extensibility and improving stability and core functionality is the real news here"

MadMax

01-17-2005, 04:37 AM

Look at LW8, it still crashes. We'd have waited 15 years, and you know what? I like this program.

Cheers.

-Ryan

My personal favorite is crash on save which has been with us since 6.0.

I love the intense feeling of fear and adrenaline rush when your finger hovers over the save button, wondering if LW will crash and corrupt the entire model.

KillMe

01-20-2005, 08:43 AM

crash on save? never had that happen to me with lightwave and am an obsessive saver

anyway modo has crashed afew times for me somestimes rather inexplicably - not really used 102 long enough to see if its improved - overall though as noted it was pretty good for a 1.0 release - anyway before i complete any transition from lightwave to modo i'm waiting so i can configure my mouse like lightwave hate all this rubbish with holding down shift or ctrl etc its infuriating

c-g

01-20-2005, 02:37 PM

My personal favorite is crash on save which has been with us since 6.0.

I was just enjoying this one.

Save
crash--crap
restart
load scene
retexture
save
crash--@#%$
restart
retexture
render
save
crash---&^%$ing *&#%@ !@#$!@ with a $&@&!@! twice!!

TrexGreg

01-20-2005, 03:20 PM

Once again, Modo not only crashes when i select a layout preset for changing the modeling layout to a UV editing layout interface, but also screw the config file, located in Aplication Data/Luxology dir, preventing Modo from re-opening. The only solution was to delete that config and let Modo create a newbie one.

The problem is that that config file had two-three days work of customizing the interface and keybord shortcuts, to suit our modeling needs. Good thing we had a back up in the form of a second Modo seat...

This have happened lots of times and we find ourselfs doing most work on Modo setting up the interface back to were we want it, than actual modeling work.

What's the deal with loading and saving layout presets? And, realy! Modo SHOULD NOT save and overwrite the config file each time it exits, either from a crash or by the user. I can tolerate any kind of crash, but one that messes up the config file when loading different layout presets is realy, realy annoying...

Regards,

c-g

01-20-2005, 03:28 PM

TrexGreg

01-20-2005, 03:45 PM

Considering that this seems localized to your computers, how about posting the configs for others to troubleshoot?

For the last two days those configs were working smoothly, going back and forth between them without problems. Suddenly, doing that same thing Modo crashes, destroying the main config file which include all settings.

That's the root of the problem and not the actual configs, imho. Modo should not automaticaly save over the main config file; it should only read it and let the user save over it manualy...

Cheers,

MunCHeR

01-20-2005, 04:12 PM

Perhaps keeping a rar file in the same dir as your config might help, when a crash occurs right click, extract here, I know this isnt a fix for your crashing problems but I always keep backups for any maya script adjustements I make, if things stuff up I always have a backup.

MunCH

MadMax

01-20-2005, 04:22 PM

crash on save? never had that happen to me with lightwave and am an obsessive saver

This is an EXTREMELY well known bug. Long time on Newtek's list and a bug that has been complained about frequently by MANY.

KillMe

01-20-2005, 05:05 PM

guess i'm super lucky then =) as i said its NEVER happened to me and typically when modeling i use the incemetal save now ( very handy time saver ) and normally have about 200 increments per any model of reasonable compicity and i save each increment normally aat least twice suffiuce it to save i use save alot

you know what you've inspired me i'm heading for VEGAS!!! :D

antnik

01-20-2005, 05:11 PM

Does modo carry the finite bugs of Lightwave?
If you leave the interface default you dont have problem...but if you have custom interface and you lose it on every crash of modo then....HUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

nobrain

01-20-2005, 06:17 PM

modo is cool, but dont switch to something ur not comfortable with, goin from 3d max to modo is like scary. max is just too damn comfortable for me, but modo is fast and stable as a mug. i would definetly try modo b4 u buy it, especially if ur max user. if ur lw user it looks exactly like it, the way it works almost identical, i never really used lw but u can tell same tree and apple type thing.

Aegis Prime

01-20-2005, 08:55 PM

I write-protect my configs for both modo and LightWave - seems to do the job...

TrexGreg

01-21-2005, 12:34 AM

Of course, there are solutions and alternative routes to deal with the "save & crash" bug in Modo. But, the real solution would be Luxology fixing it, asap.

Regards,

Dion Burgoyne

01-21-2005, 02:10 AM

He was talking about LW :)

MadMax

01-21-2005, 03:57 AM

Of course, there are solutions and alternative routes to deal with the "save & crash" bug in Modo. But, the real solution would be Luxology fixing it, asap.

Regards,

Yes, you are indeed correct. The Solution for LIGHTWAVE's crash on save problem would be for the Luxology guys to fix it for them.

Aegis Prime

01-21-2005, 07:56 AM

LOL! :D That's just too cruel...

TrexGreg

01-21-2005, 01:17 PM

Well, Dion....
I WAS talking about Modo's cruel bug....:)
That would be the "Crash, then save and corrupt the config" thing...
Cheers,

MattClary

01-21-2005, 08:00 PM

My personal favorite is crash on save which has been with us since 6.0.

LOL!!! Hmmmm... which group of guys wrote LW 6.0...? HAHAHA!

MattClary

01-21-2005, 08:04 PM

Yes, you are indeed correct. The Solution for LIGHTWAVE's crash on save problem would be for the Luxology guys to fix it for them.

Yeah, that's the ticket. If you can't code it right the first time, fix it after you leave. ;)

yog

01-21-2005, 08:46 PM

LOL!!! Hmmmm... which group of guys wrote LW 6.0...? HAHAHA!
It definitely wasn't the same group that stuffed up LW8 so bad I couldn't use it for 3 months so was forced to go use something else :D

MadMax

01-22-2005, 06:44 AM

LOL!!! Hmmmm... which group of guys wrote LW 6.0...? HAHAHA!

yeah, and who hasn't bothered to do anyting about it in all that time?

NT still thinking they'll come crawling back to fix it for them?

Jhotun

03-11-2005, 01:27 PM

Any new information about a demo version?

Nemoid

03-11-2005, 01:54 PM

ffound some great news here :

http://www.digitmag.co.uk/magazine/cd.cfm

:D

Para

03-11-2005, 01:56 PM

NT still thinking they'll come crawling back to fix it for them?

I almost reported this post to a moderator but then I rethought about it and decided to post a reply, it's more productive.

Just check NewTek's latest press releases, those should tell you something:
http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/03-09-05a.html
http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/03-09-05b.html

DorkmanScott

03-12-2005, 09:30 PM

Getting back to the original topic...

The problem with demos these days -- and I don't speak for Lux, this is just what my reasoning would be -- is piracy. Every piece of software that has ever released a functional demo has been cracked and pirated. Granted, most programs that haven't have also been cracked and pirated, but it's much easier when it's a program that's downloadable once purchased and the only difference between demo and paid-for version is a downloadable software key.

The piracy is probably going to happen sooner or later. But there's no reason to facilitate it.

Maybe we could get a modo PLE for those who haven't taken the plunge? :)

For my part, I bought Modo several months ago and I love it.

M. Scott

kawallo

03-12-2005, 11:25 PM

Piracy is a problem for all softwares, not only Modo, but the others continue to release demos for their potential purchasers.
And I don't think that the lack of a demo version is due to the crashes.
It's simply a bad marketing issue...

jonathanpatt

03-12-2005, 11:57 PM

I would have liked there to have been a demo version, but there wasn't and I bought it anyway. And it's one of the best software purchases I've made. (Aside from the crashing, which I'm sure will be fixed)

MadMax

03-13-2005, 12:40 AM

Personally I think this is a non issue. Really.

So what if there is no demo??? a bad business mistake? how?

As I recall over the years, I bought Sculpt 4D, 495.00, no demo available.

I bought Imagine, no demo.

I bought Lightwave, no demo and it came with a HUGE internal dongle.

I bought Maya, no demo was available then.

Is there a demo for Photoshop or Illustrator? I bought those anyway.

Bottom line, it would be nice if there was a demo to play with, but a demo version just isn't a make or break for the companies in question.

I saw enough demos of Modo before it was released to be certain that as a Lightwave user, I would be comfortable with it, and I saw more than enough demos of it's functionality to be sure that it was a good purchase.

And based on customer feedback on the forums, with very minor exceptions everyone has said "I won't go back" to whatever they were using.

If that isn't good enough, you can always go buy XSI for 495.00