Some max rigging questions

[clalan]

hey,

- try to work on some other files and see if they crash too. try to find out if it's the program, or the file, or a certain action you perform.

- an IK / FK switch is gives you more control over the blending between the two. It's definatly worth setting one up.

- for the tongue, in the max tutorials, under "creating complex character rigs" > "spine" they describe a setup for stretching spline IK. there are of course other ways of doing it, but this should fit your requirements.

- creating in the orthogonal viewports just give you more control over the orientation and position of your bones. suppose you were creating a spine in perspective, you would have a hard time getting it lined up with the centerline of your character.

if they control the orientation it's absolutely necessary to align helpers and controllers for various reasons. not aligning will transfer a rotation over one axis to several axes, as a result you don't know what you are doing exactly! rotations are calculated relative to the parent object, so the same orientation will lead to rotation values that are all set to zero. visually it works better when it's ligned up, making control more intuitive.

- generally animation is done in local space, so you can control over which axis you are rotating. for more on gimbal lock and euler rotations, check the max tutorials "creating complex character rigs" > "rigging wrist twist".

if the max tutorials don't answer all your questions just give a shout :)

[pwallin]

Why post Max relevant question in "general" rigging topicsection? There is a Max-specific topicsection available. This thread does not help users of other apps at all. This is about of GENERAL Rigging, you know.

[clalan]

should he have said "I have some general rigging questions, PS: I am using max" instead? there is no max-rigging specific forum, and I think he'll get more help from general riggers than general 3Ds Maxers. e.g. I never check the max forums :)

[pwallin]

should he have said "I have some general rigging questions, PS: I am using max" instead? there is no max-rigging specific forum, and I think he'll get more help from general riggers than general 3Ds Maxers. e.g. I never check the max forums :)

Saying: "PS. I am using max" is not an answer. It makes no difference.

I think that reason to have a own forum for Max (or other apps) is to gather all questions there without crowding whole CGtalk and keep things organised. General forums are meant to handle "overall" questions regardless of application so that anyone can benefit from it, or am I wrong?.

I think that if app-specific forum cannot answer your question it's MAY BE ok to post it to a "general" forum, but it should not be used unless after few tries on appspecific-forum has failed.

Pasi

[eek]

You posted in the correct forum.

The rigging forum is for rigging question, whatever specific software you use. How do people go about solving a rigging question without stating a specific software. The theorys and ideas gained can be used in any software. Remember its only terminology.

Software specific forums are for software specific answers, answers that affect a specific softwre terminology.

The rigging forum, is cross software forum, replies here maybe using maya, or xsi but the terminology and theorys can be applied to the thread starting software.

help(max), locator(maya), Point(soft)

eek

[pwallin]

You posted in the correct forum.

Yes...or maybe not...let's see.

The rigging forum is for rigging question, whatever specific software you use.

Agree...that's exactly my point.

How do people go about solving a rigging question without stating a specific software..The theorys and ideas gained can be used in any software. Remember its only terminology...

If they use general terminology and answer is usable with any software (and their specific tools and how they call them) they do not have to state which app they are using...thats what "general" means. Otherwise it's app-specific question.

Software specific forums are for software specific answers, answers that affect a specific softwre terminology.

Right, you see what I mean?

The rigging forum, is cross software forum, replies here maybe using maya, or xsi but the terminology and theorys can be applied to the thread starting software.

Yes. Any software related rigging posts are welcome unless problem is a software-specific. That's my point. I think anyone would at least do what original poster did...he mentioned in a headline which app he was using even this seems to be a max-specific question (for example using maxscript is not really helpful for users of other software) and not really a general rigging as I understood.

I know it may be a fine line here, but finding questions/answers that has no use to others is the point I try to describe. Many time I have wasted time for reading long (or many) posts that eventually do not have this "general thing" there.

[Shogun]

Well, I'm glad to see I've stirred up some debate...

My post contained both software specific and non software specific questions. eg, using max's FK subcontroller vs should I align control objects. Since both of these are related to rigging, I posted here after considering the max forum. As eek mentioned you can't really go about solving many rigging issues without considering the implementation within the software used.
I realise that people posting in the wrong places can be frustrating, having been a forum administrator myself, but as long as some attempt to post in a relevant section has been made, then really the important thing is to try & help the person posting surely? If I'd have posted this in the texturing thread, fair point, but otherwise maybe it's a question of letting that which is truly trivial slide & getting on with the important things in life, such as sharing knowledge & ideas.
clalan - thanks for the help. I missed the section on a stretchy rig, (I used my own setup for a lot of the rig, but referred to that section for the arms.) I'll take another look through & maybe PM if I need further help if that's ok.

[pwallin]

Well, I'm glad to see I've stirred up some debate...

My post contained both software specific and non software specific questions. eg, using max's FK subcontroller vs should I align control objects. Since both of these are related to rigging, I posted here after considering the max forum.

I really would first try max forum...I always start from "app-specific forum" if it exists, since most of help should be there instead in "all around-forum". :)

btw: posting to a something like "texture forum" would be absolutely no, no...:D

Pasi

[eek]

Right my final note, how do you discuss questions in rigging without relating to a specific software!, by its very nature it implys software useage.

E.g Your rigging a dog in maya and you get into problems, where do you post? A Maya specific forum, that yes on its own caters for maya problems, but not the general concepts, theorys and problem solving issues of a rigging forum or even its art.

Or a rigging forum setup for solving RIGGING PROBLEMS!

A rigging forum is slightly different than a modelling/texturing forum, as its implies generality, but needs specific software answers. E.g the principle of the edge loop can be applied to all software as its a idealogy, it doesnt rely on the terminology of e.g ikhandle, point constraint, fk subcontrol as its an aproach, to a way of thinking.

But the idea of IK handle, even though its concept is general your need specific answers, as its terminology but not function is different.

The sheer nature of this forum is to imply specific software terminology to generality. How will you solve any problems without regarding a specific software?, unless the question in itself is so general as to apply an abstract.

But there you fall on the problem of a question needing an answer : "what software are you using?" For a question to be so general as to be abstract to its reader, who in there own thinking are searching for clues to solve the problem is fool hardy.

cheers,

eek

[pwallin]

theorys and problem solving issues of a rigging forum or even its art.[/QUOTE]

Of course to a Maya forum...UNLESS it has a info to share with other software.

Or a rigging forum setup for solving RIGGING PROBLEMS!.

Yes, if it does not restrict it's problems/answers to maya...

A rigging forum is slightly different than a modelling/texturing forum, as its implies generality, but needs specific software answers. E.g the principle of the edge loop can be applied to all software as its a idealogy, it doesnt rely on the terminology of e.g ikhandle, point constraint, fk subcontrol as its an aproach, to a way of thinking.

We are repetiting things there which I agreed with you...exept for modelling/texturing thing. I found info form anywhere that it should be any different in those forum than here...

But the idea of IK handle, even though its concept is general your need specific answers, as its terminology but not function is different.

So then it will be a....(long drumroll....) A software-specific question!

The sheer nature of this forum is to imply specific software terminology to generality.

You seem to know more than me about what this forums rules are, so I gladly would read them all.

How will you solve any problems without regarding a specific software?,

By going to a app-specific forum?

unless the question in itself is so general as to apply an abstract.

Well, in a way you are correct...but ONLY if people would post threads these things in mind...which they always do not and that is my point.

But there you fall on the problem of a question needing an answer : "what software are you using?" For a question to be so general as to be abstract to its reader, who in there own thinking are searching for clues to solve the problem is fool hardy.

If "what software are you using" is needed then guy who says that is making a little mistake and driving things to a more app-specific talking. Or question it's in a totally wrong forum. There is much more forums than CGForum, you know...I know you know. BUT!!! if things goes so complicated it has been not covered almost anywhere it's not a "crime" to post it even to a different apps forum (or even to food-forum, heh)...just do not do it constantly is my wisdom.

Just a quick note...if software is so big it has it's own "forum" here in cgtalk, why there would be less "rigging guys" for knowing that particular apps problems (including riggin) than in a more "general riggin forum"? I think it's quite opposite exept fmaybe or app as big user base as Max has and their users are everywhere to a point it's hard to find any REAL general topics.

Speaking may I have...unless woked up again. :)

[eek]

!!! Ok,

Look at every thread in the Rigging Forum, they all contain or start with "im using...." or " in this software.." I dont understand your reasoning. If you have a have a quarm about generality of threads, and specifics of software relationships, post it in the suggestions forum.


Now can we please end this, and get back to the problem at hand.

cheers,

eek

[kees]

no offense pwallin, but you are the one filling this forum with useless discussion where this post should have been posted. Really...if it is that big a deal, a moderator can always move it.

There are plenty of other, lightwave/maya/xsi questions in this part of the forum and it's not like there are 100's of posts in this area a day. Plus the guy clearly stated in the topic is was related to max, so you could have easily ignored it.

...now if you have an answer to the question, please post it for the guy, otherwise, move along please.

-Kees

[pwallin]

!!! Ok,

Look at every thread in the Rigging Forum, they all contain or start with "im using...." or " in this software.." I dont understand your reasoning. If you have a have a quarm about generality of threads, and specifics of software relationships, post it in the suggestions forum.


Now can we please end this, and get back to the problem at hand.

cheers,

eek


Reason that "every" thread is just like it is do not mean it's "correct". It's just a reason of poor handling of moderators/users and most of all...lack of rules to describe what each forum is about.

And...I did have posted some advice to a "suggestions forum" some time ago, which must be a most dead of all forums in cgtalk, so no replys from moderators at all.

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