Messiah request for OSX here - reply from messiah

[webhead]

I want Messiah on a Mac. What happened? I thought plans were being formulated for a Mac version in 2001. http://www.architosh.com/news/2001-03/2001-0330-messiah.phtml

[Panikos]

I have no intention of firing an argument, but my idea is very simple.

Let say pmG develops messiah. By the time you have the stability of the PC version, things will change.
Also some other applications will still be on PC only.
PCs arent that expensive.
Why dont you buy a PC and have everything of both worlds.

I was thinking of buying a Mac and a FinalCut Pro. No software on PC is as capable as FinalCutPro for DV editting.

[webhead]

Hey, dems fightin' words, buddy!! Just kidding, Panikos.
Yes, relatively speaking, PCs are inexpensive. However, for those of us starting out in the 3D biz, every single purchase we make is a long, drawn-out and painful thought process: "Let me see now, can I afford to go another year wearing paper shoes so I can afford to buy another computer and some software that works with it and still keep up with the upgrades on my current computer?" Or something like, "How much can I get for my kidney so I can get a copy of Maya or Adobe After Effects."
Besides, if everyone bought a PC then where would it lead us? Where would it lead Macs?!
It would be like the Star Wars universe with all Siths and no Jedi! The Force demands balance, my friend. That's why the Red Sox were put on this earth -- to keep the powerful Evil Empire (that's the Yankees by the way) from taking over all of baseball - and then quite possibly the entire world. Do you want Bill Gates to control every computer, every program, every single mind on the planet?!! Do you?!!
Turn to the dark side you say? They may take our wives; they may take our children; but they'll never take away our Macs!!!
How much did you say PCs are going for these days? :shrug:

[Panikos]

webhead, unfortunately that is the plain truth.
I hate this slavery.

However I cannot blame pmG for their policy.
As for buying this and that, welcome to the world of technology my friend.
Before you unpack something, already it lost its value.
Try to sell back a new cellural phone, to the person you bought it from.

[PixelInfected]

i'm win mac linux user, is not really that pc is so inespansive, if you build correctly, with all high quality component from memory to raid card, and more.

at work we have many mac and many workstation pc, 3d boxx especially, and some assembled pc, 3d boxx rocks, never stopped, also if very hard condition, other pc suffer their condition.

is i tell hard condition i tell a month with working full time 24h on 24h, at day animation, at night rendering....
anyway i hope that apple support developer of 3d to expand 3d world in mac environment like in past with electric image.

[MikeMD]

No software on PC is as capable as FinalCutPro for DV editting. Vegas, Avid, even Toaster, all at least as capable or in some cases more capable ( depending on what you need ).

Vegas is by far the best considering the price and features. For DV editing unbeatable. If you learn it inside out, you'll edit and render projects 5 times faster than with Final Cut.

[Beamtracer]

Vegas, Avid, even Toaster, all at least as capable or in some cases more capable ( depending on what you need ). Incorrect. None of those Windows based video editing solutions is capable of doing broadcast quality HD video without the addition of expensive capture cards and expensive fast arrays of hard drives. Apple's Final Cut Pro is the only solution that can do broadcast HD without all those expensive add-ons. Not only that, but FCP does it with better quality! So in the end, the Apple is both the cheapest and best quality solution for high quality broadcast video. Apple does it with superior codecs that companies like Avid don't have the resources to develop.

But this thread was supposed to be about a Messiah OS X port. I don't know why PMG says people should contact Apple. It's PMG's responsibility.

Meanwhile, Kaydara/Alias MotionBuilder is doing a roaring trade on both Mac OS X and Windows.

[ages]

Im kind of intimidated to now ask for a copy cause i dont want them to port it over and im the only guy who wants it then they pull support due to a small audience. I might just move on and find a package on mac already out.

[JaKaL]

If I am not mistaken, PMG said this EXACT same thing a few years ago when I inquired about a Mac version. Lets just say that I didn't hold my breath. :rolleyes: As for it being up to Apple, what does that mean? Do they want Apple to front the development costs? weird.
I'll add my name (once again) to the list since I would love to see it actually happen, but I don't believe they are sincerely interested in the Mac platform. :banghead:

[policarpo]

XSI=PC
messiah=PC
3dsmax=PC
Houdini=PC

That's life.

Get both Machines and don't think about it if you really intend to use Messiah (in the meantime, you can always get Motion Builder for a good CA tool on OSX).

This is a solution that is available now. I know it isn't something a Mac head wants to do since you want Messiah on OSX (but it probably won't happen because most CA people are on the PC), but hey...they're just computers. Nothing else. :thumbsup:

Heck...maybe the LUX crew will surprise us all.;)

[Beamtracer]

The film industry actually prefers UNIX based systems, and Mac OS X is growing fast in the film business because of this.

You mention Max. Max's code is deeply Windows centric, and that's the very reason why it's not as popular as other software for major film productions. Discreet has investigated doing an OS X port, but all that Windows code is too entwined to be unravelled. Max is actually losing sales because it's too difficult for them to port to other platforms.

PMG should stop teasing everyone with their OS X intentions, when they have no intention of doing the port. They've been teasing everyone for so many years. I wrote to them years ago and since gave up on Messiah.

I went with MotionBuilder instead. It's cross platform, so you can choose the hardware you like. And, by the way, it gives fantastic OpenGL performance on OS X, and when you've got your animation set up you bring it back to Lightwave for rendering.

[ikmo]

After inquiring about the OSX version of messiah, pmG told me about their difficulty with getting any feedback from Apple. It initially seemed like blame-pointing, but more companies are moving away from OSX development because of an apparent lack of cooperation by Apple. It seems like pmG is not alone.

I'm not a programmer, so I'm not familiar with the hoops a developer must jump through with an OS. I thought it might be worthwhile to see if Apple will actually respond to my iquiries about messiah. No word yet, but it's kinda tricky (seemingly impossible) to get through to Apple. I'll keep trying - after some other pressing things.

Personally, I have MotionBuilder, modo & Silo on OSX, so I'm not just hanging around for messiah on my G5 iMac. My PC is getting old and I'd rather not continue on that road. If I must, then there's no problem with running both platforms. I am hopeful for the mac though. A few of us Silo users requested an OSX port and we got it. Nicely done and fairly quick I might add. Granted, messiah seems more complex, it is possible with a small development team - just two programmers at Nevercenter (Silo).

If anyone wants to email me to lend support for messiah:mac, please do so at macsiah@gmail.com

Also, Paula at pmG mentioned that there wasn't enough interest in a mac port to make it worth the effort. I think that's not the case anymore - especially with the workstation version. I'll look into setting up polls at various forums to get a better idea of actual numbers of interested people.

thanks
-Henry Santos

[ages]

Poli has a good point and so do u.

I want to use Messiah on mac but dont want PGM to make it with only 5 buyers then they drop support.
Also i bet Apple doesnt make it easy to develope cause they dont want it eting into apps they might have cioming up.

[MikeMD]

Incorrect. None of those Windows based video editing solutions is capable of doing broadcast quality HD video without the addition of expensive capture cards and expensive fast arrays of hard drives
First of all he said DV, not HD. In any case you are 100% wrong. Lets not hijack the thread further, by argueing such silly FCP claims. It's an affordable editing solution, nothing less nothing more.

[policarpo]

First of all he said DV, not HD. In any case you are 100% wrong. Lets not hijack the thread further, by argueing such silly FCP claims. It's an affordable editing solution, nothing less nothing more.
It's called Vegas baby and it's been supporting HD since version 4. Now let's talk about value shall we. The audio tools in Vegas are some of the best around...

Sorry...I know this was about messiah for OSX...but ya know. :p

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/Products/showproduct.asp?PID=914&FeatureID=7540

How I wish the VT supported HD...ho hum.

Back to our regular program.

-----------------------------

One way to possibly get messiah ported to OSX is to get that petition going. It worked for Maya ya know... You guys just need to get organized and do it up right and perhaps it will happen...

Cheers.

[Beamtracer]

First of all he said DV, not HD. In any case you are 100% wrong.
Hi Mike. My statement about Final Cut Pro and HD was not wrong. Yes, there are many other solutions for editing HD video, including Avid, Vegas and others. But the difference is that all the Windows based solutions require extra boards of electronics to do it, as well as fast arrays of hard drives, making them very expensive. They also lose quality because they they must translate between various codecs.

How I wish the VT supported HD...ho hum.
I was alarmed that Newtek staff were telling people at the NAB expo that there was no call for HD video. Truly alarming.

After inquiring about the OSX version of messiah, pmG told me about their difficulty with getting any feedback from Apple. It initially seemed like blame-pointing, but more companies are moving away from OSX development because of an apparent lack of cooperation by Apple. It seems like pmG is not alone
Hang on a sec... there are more 3D apps on OS X now than ever. It keeps increasing.

Also, Paula at pmG mentioned that there wasn't enough interest in a mac port to make it worth the effort. I think it's strange that PMG will make a decision on whether to port Messiah based on how many people phone or email them to support it.

Instead they should be looking at what's happening with other 3D companies that have ported to OS X. At the very minimum they should get an increase of 25% in their userbase. Newtek's figures have been at least around that amount, at times much more. Alias is doing very well with both Maya and Motionbuilder on OS X.

Maybe it's harder for PMG. Maybe they didn't design Messiah from the outset to be a cross platform app. I'm not sure. I don't know if it's true but my impression of PMG is that its userbase is mainly Lightwavers. Nothing wrong with that, but it will be a problem for them if they don't attract users from the industry at large, rather than from one app.

Motionbuilder is attracting users from all the other major 3D apps, including Lightwavers.

[Rabid pitbull]

Why not post this in the pmg forum? Seems like you don't have much faith in newtek to post this here.

[Zarathustra]

I'm glad my fellow Mac guys didn't cause a poopstorm over the advice of buying a PC. I mean, sure, it's annoying to hear but in today's atmosphere you're already looking at needing this app for this, that app for that. Many of those apps would cost the same or more then a new PC, so wtf? It's just one more burden, I guess. It makes us independents scream because it's next to impossible to support such an approach financially. That's why we want all-in-one solutions and all possible solutions available on OSX.

It's frustrating to hear from numerous developers that Apple is difficult to deal with. VERY frustrating, as a pro Mac user.:argh:

btw - Yeah, I could buy a cheap PC, but to build a machine with the ram, fast and large HDs and video card (did I leave out anything?) that cheap PC is suddenly not cheap anymore. Man, am I tired of that comment.

[ikmo]

Hang on a sec... there are more 3D apps on OS X now than ever. It keeps increasing.
Well, I couldn't agree more. My point was that a growing number of developers are having difficulty dealing with Apple - enough to stop their OSX development. With that, it's not hard for me to believe pmG's difficulty with Apple support.

I think it's strange that PMG will make a decision on whether to port Messiah based on how many people phone or email them to support it.

Instead they should be looking at what's happening with other 3D companies that have ported to OS X. At the very minimum they should get an increase of 25% in their userbase. Newtek's figures have been at least around that amount, at times much more. Alias is doing very well with both Maya and Motionbuilder on OS X.

I think it makes sense to study both software developers and end users. Since pmg has a more specialised market than, say Lightwave, it has to consider WHO will be using the app. That's how I see it anyway. ;)

As far as this post not belonging on the LW forums, I think it is pertinent especially for Mac LightWavers who may want the messiah:animate connection. Since messiah started as a plugin for LW, there has always been a strong connection between the two.

BTW - I greatly appreciate the opinions (for or against) messiah:mac. It's helping paint a better picture of the possibility of this happening. Also, the more exposure we have, the more possibility for Apple and pmG to realize that there is a definite desire for messiah:mac

take care all
-henry

[Julez4001]

What i can't understand is that how this thread was allowed to live this long.
I posted a thread for LW users who may be using messiah and getting confused and
tips on using both apps together and IT WAS SHUT DOWN immediately, this thread is for messiah users (or potential ) who wanted a mac port. It doesn't even address the lw user.
Maybe a conspiracy I suppose.
:D

[Beamtracer]

Why not post this in the pmg forum?What i can't understand is that how this thread was allowed to live this long.It destroys this Lightwave forum when threads that discuss other products like this are moved. It's been happening too much lately.

I'll tell you why this thread should stay.

1. The Messiah forum would be full of pro-Messiah people. You wouldn't find many who would give a fair comparison with MotionBuilder or other competing products.

2. The Messiah forum would be full of people who primarily use the Windows OS, rather than Mac OS X. This thread is a call to Mac OS X people.

3. The Messiah forum would be full of people who already own Messiah. This is a call to Lightwavers who don't already own Messiah.

It's a really sad thing that there are always people on this forum who jump in to say "close the thread down" or "move it somewhere else". Negative comments like that are unique to this forum. Stop thinking that every mention of a third party product must be a threat to Lightwave. It's bizarre.

[Julez4001]

Personally I could care less if the thread stays open but
I got jumped on twice for the same reason this thread exist (for lesser reason).
I just want to know what makes one thread better than the other...
I also think other software discussion should permitted.

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