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Leonard
12-23-2004, 06:17 AM
Hi all,

As you know, recently we did a survey and voting poll on significant things that happened in the CG industry this year past. With the help of the CGTalk community, we compiled this list and opened voting for a week to finally arrive at the Top 20 CG things that happened in 2004. The results, as voted by the CGTalk community are now here:

>> CG Retrospective 2004 - CG Top 20 << (http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=2671)

http://www.cgnetworks.com/images/plugs/feature/cgRetro_plug.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=2671)

Wishing you all a very happy Christmas and New Year. Here's to 2005! :beer:

Best,

Leonard


--

Frequently asked questions / issues

Q: Why isn't 'XYZ' on this list?
A: It might have been on the voting list and did not score as high during voting. The thread where the community compiled the list of things that happened in 2004 is here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=189598). Voting took place last week, and the Top 20 is in the article linked above. There are no losers here - this list is simply what the community compiled and voted for.

Q: Sorry, but 'XYZ' is not worthy of being in this list. Why is it included?
A: Because that's what the community wanted and voted for.

Q: Why not a bigger list of the Top 40/50/100? That way nobody gets left out.
A: Because it takes a lot of time to compile the Top 20 including commentary and images for each, let alone Top 40/50/100. No matter how you compile it, or how comprehensive the list ends up, someone is going to complain...we've got to be practical and cut the list at some point. 20 is reasonable and already took a long time to put together.

--

JDex
12-23-2004, 06:28 AM
Great job... looks like an accurate list to me. Cheers to all the winners, creators, participants, and CGNetworks. Here's to a great 2005.

andy_maxman
12-23-2004, 06:39 AM
Great to see AM featured among the top 20. Here is wishing them all the luck for 2005.
Incredilble list that.
-cheers!

dotTom
12-23-2004, 06:55 AM
Great list, great article. 'Can't wait to see how 2005 can improve on this...

Gkaine
12-23-2004, 07:06 AM
awsome. never saw that thing about ea... frightening

Para
12-23-2004, 07:18 AM
Top5 is spot on! :D Just the way I voted for. :thumbsup:

Darknon
12-23-2004, 07:36 AM
Shouldn't the World Of Warcraft intro be in this list? ...Huh...?

Ollarin
12-23-2004, 07:44 AM
Excellent list! Congrats to all the winners! Now, seeing that The Incredibles made top spot, i must watch it. :p

Dominus
12-23-2004, 08:00 AM
hey, it`s not fair! warcraft 3 and world of warcraft have the best game cinematics, they rule!

droidzlander
12-23-2004, 08:14 AM
hey, it`s not fair! warcraft 3 and world of warcraft have the best game cinematics, they rule!
I mostly agree. Onimusha and Warhammer 40000 are strikingly beautiful but WOW cinematic had to have its honourful mention.

-Vormav-
12-23-2004, 08:21 AM
Nice to see Z Brush 2 near the top. :)

As for things like Onimusha and WoW intro cinematics... The point of this thing was to find the things this year that had an impact on the industry. And yes, those cinematics may be very pretty - they're incredible animations. But I really fail to see how they've made a very dramatic impact in the industry. :shrug:

Critieria for selection
Whatever is selected in this list needs to be innovative, landmark or very cool. We are interested in events, movies, short films, games, products, software or anything that had a profound effect on the CG industry in 2004.
Just my $0.02

aliasali
12-23-2004, 08:24 AM
very nice list!

hope the cgcomunity to progress more in the newxt years,that we cannot judge between which one is the best! and 20 becomes 100 !

Leonard
12-23-2004, 11:31 AM
Shouldn't the World Of Warcraft intro be in this list? ...Huh...? hey, it`s not fair! warcraft 3 and world of warcraft have the best game cinematics, they rule! Onimusha and Warhammer 40000 are strikingly beautiful but WOW cinematic had to have its honourful mention. Excuse me guys, I'd just like to point out that the World of Warcraft opening cinematics was on the voting list but got edged out of the Top 20 in the scores! This is the way the community voted, so it's totally fair. There are no losers here!

Leonard

Julez4001
12-23-2004, 12:15 PM
I know this is the way the community voted but the US population voted Shrek2 topdog with
their dollars. Its the no.3 movie of all time in the US, with only StarWars and Titanic beating it. Thats no small feat. It had "pathos" and emotion depicting a newly marriaged couples and thier in-laws. I can't beleieve ppl didn't give it more votes.

Para
12-23-2004, 12:30 PM
Well, USA is only 10% of the world - they are a minority, even with their opinions :) (no flames, thank you)

Garma
12-23-2004, 12:41 PM
cool list, just read all through it. Too bad "the incredibles" is on the first spot, somehow I think if they released "the incredibles" in the first quarter of 2004, Shrek and Indcredibles would've switched places. I really think Shrek is better in almost every aspect.

Also HL2 on 4 is allright, but I think it should go 2nd. But well that's also because I don't really care about disney and pixar splitting up and stuff like that.

:thumbsup:

Damsel
12-23-2004, 02:20 PM
Wonderful job Leonard!! thank you.... :thumbsup:

cris castro
12-23-2004, 04:03 PM
i found warcraft by blur studio completely amazing , the camera mouvements is almost perfect, where the characters animation done using mocap? did they used 3dsmax(afaik blur has always use it) for this production? waoou great job!

Geta-Ve
12-23-2004, 04:29 PM
Ya I had no clue this whole list thing was even going on...... :/

Anyhoo I was completely taken aback by the lack of WoW cinematic in that list... and I don't see how pixar and disney splitting up was that big of a thing, especially in 2004... I mean.. did anyone NOT know about it? we have all been expecting it for years.. we all knew their contract with each other... not big news at all...

Meh... too late now I guess... Oh well we can now just vote for the SC Ghost cinematic for 2005 :D

SpeccySteve
12-23-2004, 04:44 PM
Ya I had no clue this whole list thing was even going on...... :/
There was a 10 page thread discussing it and a "Vote Now" banner on the front page for quite a while..
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=189598&highlight=2004+retrospective

Geta-Ve
12-23-2004, 04:46 PM
mm.. shows how much i pay attention then eh.. :p

i probably saw it but thought it was for the sketches.. or something.. bah ^_^

arona
12-23-2004, 05:50 PM
cool list, just read all through it. Too bad "the incredibles" is on the first spot, somehow I think if they released "the incredibles" in the first quarter of 2004, Shrek and Indcredibles would've switched places. I really think Shrek is better in almost every aspect.


:thumbsup:
im somehow unanimous. shrek 2 with any weakness it has provoke my emotions more than incredibles.

anyway great list just a bit different from what i was expecting.

silvergun
12-23-2004, 06:24 PM
I thought shrek 2 was one of the worst films this year.It shouldnt be in the top 20 because it's CG hasnt improved since the 1st movie. Modo should be in the top 5

RenegadeWang
12-23-2004, 06:53 PM
I don't know, Hyde from Van Helsing should have been on that list somewhere. Hyde was the man...

DDS
12-23-2004, 07:01 PM
I agree about this list, great job Leonard. I'm very happy with it :love:

I only have one objection (not about the list, but about the people who voted it indeed):

Why maya6 is so voted and max7(don't say that!!), which has so much cool things...(STOP!) hasn't been...(noooo!) AS VOTED AS MAYA!!

relax...:)

Gamefan
12-23-2004, 07:16 PM
Awesome list Leonard! I really enjoyed reading through it. Great job!


GAMEFAN

tlggungor
12-23-2004, 07:55 PM
Mental Ray 3.3, mental images is my favourite





Would you like to see my 2D Challenge CİTİES & CONCEPTS

Ithilien
12-23-2004, 08:06 PM
i found warcraft by blur studio completely amazing , the camera mouvements is almost perfect, where the characters animation done using mocap? did they used 3dsmax(afaik blur has always use it) for this production? waoou great job!

FYI - you meant Warhammer? Blur did not do Warcraft.
Blur Studio - Warhammer 40,000 cinematic
Blizzard Entertainment - World of Warcraft

The Top 20 article links to the Making Of Warhammer (http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=2538) - also on CGNetworks here (http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=2538).

Rudity
12-23-2004, 08:32 PM
Hey, my reel didn't make the cut? Whats up with that!!??

Bentagon
12-23-2004, 09:08 PM
Great list! Good to see Animation Mentor in there :)

About the Shrek2 <-> The Incredibles. I found Shrek 2 funny the first time, but not the sedond time. I barely smiled the second time I watched. As for The Incredibles I laughed every time I saw it (3 times by now), and I felt that the story was much more worked out and had more "pathos". I bet there are a lot more people that have watched The Incredibles more then once (or twice) in theatres, then there are for Shrek 2. I do feel, however, that it deserves its spot in the list, since it was the highest grossing animated film of all time. I believe it kind of was the end of the beginning of CG movies.

- Bentagon

agreenster
12-23-2004, 09:21 PM
Great list! Good to see Animation Mentor in there :)

About the Shrek2 <-> The Incredibles. I found Shrek 2 funny the first time, but not the sedond time. I barely smiled the second time I watched. As for The Incredibles I laughed every time I saw it (3 times by now), and I felt that the story was much more worked out and had more "pathos". I bet there are a lot more people that have watched The Incredibles more then once (or twice) in theatres, then there are for Shrek 2. I do feel, however, that it deserves its spot in the list, since it was the highest grossing animated film of all time. I believe it kind of was the end of the beginning of CG movies.

- Bentagon
Quoted for agreement. Shrek 2 I laughed till I peed my pants, but maybe it was a mixture of the people I went with--we were having a good time regardless (out for my birthday). On DVD, I didnt laugh once. I still love Shrek though

Incredibles was a knock-down-drag-out phenom, both visually and story-wise

But whatever, 2004 was a great year for CG all around

sonicstrawbery
12-23-2004, 09:26 PM
Yeah, i think The Incredibles has win and is in mind of everybody because it's the first Pixar full lenght movie with humans, i really feel differently with shrek 2... or maybe only because it's PIXAR !

anyway the list is cool... 1 or 2 stuffs (will not give name) haven't their place in this list but i'm sure it's a kind of commercial story...

cris castro
12-23-2004, 09:26 PM
FYI - you meant Warhammer? Blur did not do Warcraft.
Blur Studio - Warhammer 40,000 cinematic
Blizzard Entertainment - World of Warcraft

The Top 20 article links to the Making Of Warhammer (http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=2538) - also on CGNetworks here (http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=2538).
oh yes sorry :D , thanks for the link.

Para
12-23-2004, 09:40 PM
But whatever, 2004 was a great year for CG all around

Also quoted for truth. Only thing I'm scared right now is that can the industry keep getting better and better at this rate. I think that the year 2004 set so many new standards and raised the bars by so huge amounts that we won't see anything truly spectacular next year when compared to the best of the best of this year, but 2006...well, that's a whole another story :)

Pete Latrofa
12-23-2004, 11:53 PM
Umm, how does Polar Express not make this list? Has anyone seen this movie? I know it's primarily a children's flic so it didn't have the audience appeal of a movie like The Incredibles. But the animation quality, graphics, renderings, concepts were all mind-blowing in my opinion.

Is anybody else with me on this one?

Ithilien
12-24-2004, 12:07 AM
Umm, how does Polar Express not make this list? Has anyone seen this movie? I know it's primarily a children's flic so it didn't have the audience appeal of a movie like The Incredibles. But the animation quality, graphics, renderings, concepts were all mind-blowing in my opinion.

Is anybody else with me on this one?

The Polar Express was on the voting list. It didn't make the Top 20 because the others scored higher. Read the FAQ on the first post. This is what the community voted so if Polar Express isn't in the Top 20, it's because not enough people voted for it. There's no conspiracy. This is what the community voted.

egodoi
12-24-2004, 12:14 AM
Really incredible feeling to select this kind of list... really a moment to reflect and think about biggest moments in CG around the world.... congratulations for all .... we are this universe

boriswjw
12-24-2004, 01:23 AM
Like every snippet of life, that's a nother world in our spirit, prop up!

Pete Latrofa
12-24-2004, 05:44 PM
This is what the community voted so if Polar Express isn't in the Top 20, it's because not enough people voted for it. There's no conspiracy. This is what the community voted.
yeah i know there's no conspiracy here. what i meant to say was how did it not get voted by the people to be in the top 20. I'm very very surprised.

MisterE
12-24-2004, 05:56 PM
Where is "The Day After Tomorrow"? While some may argue about the story, there's no denying the CG in that movie pushed the limits.

kmest
12-24-2004, 08:57 PM
great list.
glad to see incredibles on top,pixar realy deserve this.

and happy to see Animation Mentor in the list.

i think there are somethings which must be in the list and some that shouldnt be,but any way,cool list.

Ithilien
12-24-2004, 09:16 PM
Where is "The Day After Tomorrow"? While some may argue about the story, there's no denying the CG in that movie pushed the limits.

The Day After Tomorrow was also on the voting list. It didn't make the Top 20 because the others scored higher. Read the FAQ on the first post.

This is what the community voted so if The Day After Tomorrow isn't in the Top 20, it's because not enough people voted for it. There's no conspiracy. This is what the community voted.

kmest
12-24-2004, 09:26 PM
hey guys,were can i see the voting list?

Leonard
12-24-2004, 09:49 PM
Hi,

All of the above posts about "where is " were on the voting list but did not make it into the Top 20 because the others pushed them out on scores. This is explained in my FAQ on the first post.

Here is the actual voting list (http://www.cgnetworks.com/2004retro/) used for voting by the community. The list was compiled in this thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1762345#post1762345), viewed over 13,000 times, 120 replies, was on the front page for two weeks. Scoring was done on a basis of giving each item a score of 0-5 (0 was default). Each member was given the ability to vote once and score everything.

This is the pure nature of Top XX type countdowns. How many times have you listened to the local radio station's nightly countdown and couldn't believe that your song wasn't on? It's the same here. [i]This is how the community voted.

I hope this will lay the issue to rest. Please just enjoy the list for what it is.

Best,

Leonard


PS: Here is the breakdown of some categories by score:

Top Feature Film (live action) CG VFX
1. Spider-Man 2
2. Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
3. The Day After Tomorrow
4. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

Top Feature Animation
1. The Incredibles, Pixar
2. Shrek 2, DreamWorks
3. The Polar Express
4. Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence, Production I.G

Top Games
1. Half Life 2, Valve Software
2. Doom 3, ID Software
3. Halo 2, BUNGIE
4. Far Cry, Ubisoft

Top Game Cinematics
1. Warhammer 40,000 Opening Cinematics, Blur Studio
2. Onimusha 3 Cinematics, ROBOT Communication
3. World of Warcraft Cinematic Intro, Blizzard Entertainment

Ithilien
12-24-2004, 09:55 PM
Thanks Leonard! I hope this puts all the "What happened to this movie?" questions to rest.

Have a very Merry Christmas!

kmest
12-24-2004, 09:58 PM
Hi,

.........................



thanks leonard

MisterE
12-25-2004, 12:30 AM
Hi,

All of the above posts about "where is [insert favourite movie]" were on the voting list but did not make it into the Top 20 because the others pushed them out on scores. This is explained in my FAQ on the first post.


The Day After Tomorrow was also on the voting list. It didn't make the Top 20 because the others scored higher. Read the FAQ on the first post.
Point taken. And, yes, I did, indeed, see the FAQ before posting. I mentioned my disappointment merely to see what everyone else thought.


Please just enjoy the list for what it is.

Besides the absence of DAT, the list was fair :) . Merry Christmas and Happy New Year :beer:

Neil
12-25-2004, 11:55 PM
ugh, some active member I am... i too did not even know this was going on :(
haha

MartinGFoster
12-26-2004, 12:08 AM
All of the above posts about "where is [insert favourite movie]" were on the voting list but did not make it into the Top 20 because the others pushed them out on scores. This is explained in my FAQ on the first post.

my only complaint is that, despite visiting this website several times a day almost every day, I didn't see anything about a vote for best CG.

Ultimately, I agree with most of the answers although I have no opinion on any games or game cinematics.

Leonard
12-26-2004, 04:56 AM
my only complaint is that, despite visiting this website several times a day almost every day, I didn't see anything about a vote for best CG.

Ultimately, I agree with most of the answers although I have no opinion on any games or game cinematics.

That doesn't surprise me. Despite the huge marketing efforts that we have, there are members who still don't know that we publish EXPOSE', or that the Grand Space Opera Challenge is running. There are even members who still think that CGTalk and CG Channel are the same site! :eek:

We did our best to get the word out regarding the CG Retrospective with the plug on the front page for almost two weeks and in our newsletters. But there is just so much going on at CGNetworks and CGTalk that inevitably, some people are going to miss it.

What can I say? We did our best to get the word out. The stats show that many hundreds of people contributed and voted on the CG Retrospective. Sorry you missed it. Keep an eye out for it next year! :)

Best wishes,

Leonard

SteveV
12-26-2004, 08:51 AM
I don't know if I'm disappointed or facing the reality that "2D" as it's now known, illustration in my day, didn't even rate a mention in the top 20 apart from Gnomons videos. Painter IX for me was a significant event this year, as was the continued realisation that the world is full of top flight digital illustrators.

From concept art to matt painting, to just plain awe inspiring art, I'd say the "lesser" cousin of computer graphics is alive and well too, just not as higher profile it seems.

Neil
12-26-2004, 08:07 PM
I don't know if I'm disappointed or facing the reality that "2D" as it's now known, illustration in my day, didn't even rate a mention in the top 20
well i'm scratching my brain now to think of anything 2d that had a major impact in box office or the news. I mean besides the whole disney laying off people (which is more business related). I CAN think of lots of 2d movies that did very poorly though. So maybe that should have been the top 20 angle then, eh? The decline of 2d? ;)

There are even members who still think that CGTalk and CG Channel are the same site! Well it doesn't help that it has a very similar look to cgnetworks, which is part of you guys. I'm sure cgchannel is pleased with the implied association though.

We did our best to get the word out regarding the CG Retrospective with the plug on the front page for almost two weeks and in our newsletters. But there is just so much going on at CGNetworks and CGTalk that inevitably, some people are going to miss it. I think it's just the whole holiday thing. As xmas nears things always get hectic and this site practically shuts down too, I'd be curious to hear how many visitors you have around xmas and newyears in comparision to a normal week.

MartinGFoster
12-26-2004, 08:17 PM
That doesn't surprise me. Despite the huge marketing efforts that we have, there are members who still don't know that we publish EXPOSE', or that the Grand Space Opera Challenge is running. There are even members who still think that CGTalk and CG Channel are the same site! :eek:

Not to worry. I'm not blaming you. I guess I just missed it somehow. Ironically, I do know about all the other things you mentioned :)

SamChen
12-27-2004, 02:01 AM
Talking about Shrek2 vs. The Incredibles, Dreamworks vs. Pixar... it reminds me of heated discussions between Mac and PC fanatics. It often becomes a semi-religious debate. My bro just returned home for Xmas and he's a diehard mac fan... he gets religious and defensive when I tell him my gripes about Macs.

As for Shrek2 vs. The Incredibles.. I'll just say that like a previous post, I've watched both films 3x each. I loved both films in the theater the first time. Upon second screeening, I barely laughed once thru Shrek2.. and most of my friends actually yawned thru it.. one actually fell asleep. On the other hand, The Incredibles was even better the 2nd and 3rd time. Granted my taste is different than the "Shrek-heads" but I do wonder why I liked Shrek2 so much more the first time.. and not subsequent times? Perhaps it's the nature of gag-driven films vs. story-driven ones. Anyway.. this is up for debate... I'm glad both films made the top 10.

The big test will be the Academy Awards coming up in a few months as they both go head to head for the coveted statuette. My prediction is that the Academy will vote The Incredibles... regardless of Shrek2's box office achievement. The Incredibles did well enough to offset this otherwise important voting factor.

sciics
12-28-2004, 08:05 AM
Hey leo.. thts pretty good... and besides you gave us the 1st part of the spread sheet.. eg the contenders for games, intros, Feature Films etc.. How bout the second half i.e. Applications, news headlines etc. would really appriciate that... thnx...

opus13
12-28-2004, 03:38 PM
I know this is the way the community voted but the US population voted Shrek2 topdog with
their dollars. Its the no.3 movie of all time in the US, with only StarWars and Titanic beating it. Thats no small feat. It had "pathos" and emotion depicting a newly marriaged couples and thier in-laws. I can't beleieve ppl didn't give it more votes.
the US is a fairly small sample set, and an inaccurate meter to judge by. if you compare the national chart to world, shrek2 slides down to 7th place in revenue.

i am thinking that placement wont even hold for too long. everytime a lord of the rings box set or a harry potter sequel is released, interest will be rejuvinated in those topics, forcing shrek down.

not to say that it wasnt a remarkably successful film but using the US box office figure, for just how important it is to CG in general, is crap.

geneticlone
12-28-2004, 05:24 PM
lol koo, in a way im so glad halo 2 was not on this :) excelent, but i would have bumbed maya 6 a little higher lol :). gd job

kmest
12-28-2004, 08:32 PM
Talking about Shrek2 vs. The Incredibles, Dreamworks vs. Pixar... it reminds me of heated discussions between Mac and PC fanatics. It often becomes a semi-religious debate. My bro just returned home for Xmas and he's a diehard mac fan... he gets religious and defensive when I tell him my gripes about Macs..


why didnt you mentioned the disgusting discussions about MAYA vs. MAX/XSI blabla.... :D it still egsits in some CG forum sites....and what hot threeds :eek: :eek: and the funny thing is;they never find the answer

ThommyBoy
12-28-2004, 10:42 PM
In the world of CG with so many new and exciting things going on I don't understand why Maya 6 is a "top 20". I can see with the drastic price drop as XSI has is a major "Top 20" item, but I find it odd that so many would vote for "their" software's next version as such a big thing over against so many other things that have been added into the CG world as of late. Now last year when Maya dropped the price, that was a"Top 20" story to me.

Just My Opinion, and that's it...

Cheers, THOM

insseuv
12-30-2004, 08:28 AM
Well, USA is only 10% of the world - they are a minority, even with their opinions :) (no flames, thank you)
10%, are u kidding ? 5 % is more appropriate....

kerosene
12-31-2004, 08:24 AM
5% of the population but in box office revenue it is by far the biggest market.

H

conceptx
01-02-2005, 12:57 PM
Brilliant list and good referral of whats happened this year thanks.

Neil
01-02-2005, 07:53 PM
10%, are u kidding ? 5 % is more appropriate....
This site is geared toward "cg professionals", not everyone. So it's foolish to compare us to the world population. Why sum in a poverty stricken country that don't even use computers or watch movies?

webhead
01-02-2005, 11:06 PM
I wonder what kind of impact SKY CAPTAIN had on how digital effects will be used in film in the future. Though, the movie didn't do that well, it still opened a few doors I'd say.

Peace455
01-03-2005, 01:38 AM
I wonder what kind of impact SKY CAPTAIN had on how digital effects will be used in film in the future. Though, the movie didn't do that well, it still opened a few doors I'd say.
I agree to that.

conceptx
01-03-2005, 07:54 AM
I wonder what kind of impact SKY CAPTAIN had on how digital effects will be used in film in the future. Though, the movie didn't do that well, it still opened a few doors I'd say.
"Sky Captain" was purely a Nerdy movie in my opinion prolly why it didn't do so well in the general view, it was great and very very inovative. Am surer we are going to see many movies pick up a few of it's trick as you said :thumbsup:.

webhead
01-05-2005, 01:57 PM
I don't think Sky Captain failed so much because it was a "nerdy" movie. I had a feeling it was going to fail when I saw the trailers; not that it wasn't a beautiful, rich looking film, but because it was so retro. Most of the movie-going public are from an era that wouldn't appreciate what the movie was paying tribute to. I think Sky Captain failed because it had no real audience the way the LOTR or films like that have. I must be a bit nerdy, but overall, I thought it was a fun ride and something different. :shrug:

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