CGTalk - which processor for Cinema?

LucentDreams

09-02-2002, 09:25 AM

good subjects as a friend and I were just researching processors for suture upgrades.

Right now with C4D XL 7 it seems that AMD typically is better, but do note that Intel is now back in the lead for fastest overall processor, as they will have 3.0 out soon and AMD will be releasing 2600+ which I am not sure of its actual MHz value is definitely still only comparable to a 2.6 or 2.7 Intel processor :( As it is Intel just relead their 2.8 so they are defintiely faster for the moment.

Also Intel is now changing the size of their transistors from .13 to.09 which will alloweven more functionality but you won't see thos for quite a while still.

Rgith now I if you plan to get one right away I think you are better off with AMD as it is far cheaper, and very fast/powerful. Keeping right up there with Intel though far behind in actual MHz.

michaeli

09-02-2002, 09:37 AM

Hope this pic and the link will help you.:beer:
Pic: http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020826/images/image020.gif
Link:
http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020826/p4_2800-13.html
quote:"The AMD Athlon gets agressive in the Cinema benchmark: here, the AMD Athlon XP 2600+ takes first place and puts the P4/2800 in its place. In any case, there's a difference of nine seconds. This is the only benchmark where the Athlon XP 2600+ manages to beat the fastest P4. "

neilyb

09-02-2002, 09:42 AM

Well, as I am moving back tot he UK for a couple of years to go back to school, I was looking at the cheapest poss alternative which would be in the 2-2.4 Mhz range......for the price of the AMD 2.2ghz I can also buy a P4 2.4 ghz.........so hard, so hard....

LucentDreams

09-02-2002, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by neilyb
Well, as I am moving back tot he UK for a couple of years to go back to school, I was looking at the cheapest poss alternative which would be in the 2-2.4 Mhz range......for the price of the AMD 2.2ghz I can also buy a P4 2.4 ghz.........so hard, so hard....

Hmm this seems odd, oyu math doesn't make sense, here I can buuild a 2200+ 512MB ram system witha Gforce4 440 for just over 1000 canadian dollars, while a P4 2.2 with the same ram and GFX card would be 1200 canadian dollars, Thats slightly less than $200 dollars difference with the AMD being the cheaper system.

neilyb

09-02-2002, 10:56 AM

Prices in England are weird. Always more expensive than the rest of the world! I will have to wait another couple of weeks before ordering anyway.....by then who knows what specials will crop up....? I think, depending on price contrast, I would stick with the P4 (due to having no probs in the past with intel) but would like the best bang for my buck (although the difference may be too small to tell!)

Thanks!

kiwi

09-02-2002, 11:07 AM

I dont know squat about Intel or AMD systems,but doesnt a dual processor make more sense?.......For instance after Christmas I am buying a new system and going to buy something like 2 x 867 dual G4s and around 2.5g ddr ram and make a small render farm,as I can actually get 2 machines for the price of a bigger one and still come out way on top in terms of ghz and processing speed :)

Stu.

ThirdEye

09-02-2002, 11:45 AM

I have a dual PIII 1Ghz and I don't think dual processors work very well with C4D, I explain you why. When C4D detects 2 cpus it divides the viewport (or the final pic) into ONLY 2 render regions, when a cpu has finished its zone then the remaining blank zone is divided itself into 2 other zones and so on... Well, now the problematic aspect of the whole thing: let's suppose we are rendering a GI pic, or a very difficult pic that requires a lot of previous calculation before rendering pass starts: this calculation must be redone by the cpus every time a render pass starts and not only once. In particular you'll notice this problem on second render zone subdivision: sometimes the first zone is going to finish his job and the second one is precalculating his job yet...

(I'm sorry for my complicated explanation but english is not my mother tongue :shrug: )

LucentDreams

09-02-2002, 11:52 AM

as well in the world of PCS(macs are way different) Two PC's is hardly more expensive, so I would rathe rhave two seperate PC's, so while one renders I can use the other, or render across both if needed. This isn't just for C4D but PRemiere and such as well. I personally believe two PCS is always better than one Duals, of course two Duals are even better.

ThirdEye

09-02-2002, 11:54 AM

Remember also that in C4D there aren't any settings for dual engine: no bucket size, ecc.

neilyb

09-02-2002, 11:56 AM

As I said I will be a student as from 20th September so 2 pc's or 1 dual will have to be a dream which keeps me awake at night (sort of a beautiful nightmare!)....lol.....:-):wavey:

LucentDreams

09-02-2002, 08:10 PM

Wel yo still have your current this is what I am refering to, you use this and a new single Pc as wel, networks are super easy from two PC's

kiwi

09-02-2002, 11:28 PM

:hmm: C4D is optimized to work with multi processors isnt it?

Stu.

LucentDreams

09-02-2002, 11:44 PM

yes it is

I still pefer to have toally seperate PC's myself. Just a personal preference guess.

ThirdEye

09-03-2002, 12:00 AM

Some new controls? :scream: For example?? :airguitar

kiwi

09-03-2002, 02:21 AM

Ah ok thanks :)

Ya I agree third eye :thumbsup:

So four processors would speed up a render by a factor of 4 no?,or is it more like 3,or am I way off base altogether :)

Thanks

Stu.

matty2x4

09-03-2002, 04:22 AM

Oh and Stu dont forget the popular question...
What about Mac OSX???
my puny mac runs C4D ok, but I have been checking out the learning version of maya and BOY the whole system slows down to a slog. If C4D become native will that speed it up or slow it down? as you can tell Im no tech head.
2x4

Grey

09-03-2002, 04:26 AM

<----NOT impressed with MayaPLE having experienced Cinema.

I have a two steps behind the times machine, and Cinema runs fabulous on a 1.4gAMD with 500mb ram. Raytrace time is fast fast fast.

I'm happy. MayaPLE bogs down my system so badly I can't do anything else.

BrandonS

09-03-2002, 04:43 AM

A word of warning about Intel CPUs if you buy a new P4 make sure the that mainboard supports all of the P4s coming out. Some of the newer model P4s have different power needs then some of the older P4s. There is a lot of speculation that Intel will be changing the packaing of the P4 again making a future upgrade a question mark. Also the transition of the P4 to the .09 micron process is at least 6 months if not further away. AMD may not have a total speed crown like it did a few months/weeks ago, but the still have the biggest bang for the buck factor. A wise man once said to buy a new computer based on the best price/performance, not one or the other. The logic being that way you don't get burned buying a cheap comp that is outdated before you get it set up, or you don't pay though the nose to get the newest tech that may not stick around. The best example I can give is ATA-133, nobody but Maxtor supports it and the performance gain is minimal compared to ATA-100, therefore not worth the extra money. As far a dual CPU set up is concerned I think that they are a total waste of money unless you are setting it up as a render only box. My thought is that most of the time you will only be using one CPU any way, so why pay more for a dual setup. The money you save could go to build a cheaper box just for rendering on. If it is only going to render it only needs a minimum of componets, you could even use a onboard solution for video and sound. You could get a nice KVM switch and save money on a monitor also. Well this post has turned into a novel, so I'll shut up now.

neilyb

09-03-2002, 07:05 AM

Kai: actually as I will be moving from Munich to Leeds (Germany to England) I will unfortunately be leaving the old (2ghz) PC behind for the girlfriend......and then buying a new one in England. That way when I visit or spend days in Munich I have a PC on which to work!
For the work I am doing a dual system would be too much, I mainly model and hope to animate soon (part of my course will be animation, not necessarily in 3D). Unless a dual system helps alot in terms of Premier, AE, Quark, Director, Dreamweaver and Flash then I would be better buying a car as well......how do you students manage?

I shall wait 2 weeks, by then the chances are I can get a 2.6ghz machine!:applause:

LucentDreams

09-03-2002, 07:45 AM

Trust me on this, the further away from 3D you animation can be the better, Funny how classical animation programs hiring rate are still as good if not better than the 3D programs in North america, seems that 3D animation studios still want someone who knows animation over someone who has learned a 3D program, funny how that works really. Heck I will be teaching at working at two small studios upon graduation in two months, and I am still doing my film, not to mention the two propositions I have gotten from other animators just from showing that WIP on animation nation, of course they just don't sound viable tome, more of people with dreams than business men with sense and artistic direction (hard to find the two together)

neilyb

09-03-2002, 08:47 AM

I am kind of looking forward to it in a scared to death kind of way. I have worked for the last ten years, 2 in graphics and am not looking forward to the long nights, parttime slave labour and living without mi woman! (six years is a long time to be together!). But I want to learn animation, something I have not been able to do well alone, and the fundamentals can only be a help in the real world! (even if at home I want to play in 3D!)
By the way is the any student pricing for v8 yet?

kiwi

09-03-2002, 09:59 AM

You will be fine bud :thumbsup: Put up with a bit of hassle now and reap the rewards later :D A good friend has an excellent saying that comes to mind "Onward and upward"....

Kai congrats on those job openings you have gotten :thumbsup:

Stu.

LucentDreams

09-03-2002, 10:52 AM

Hey thanks stu, they may not be where I want to end up, but they are a great way to start, my classmates all laugh at how much of a computer geek I am, and wasting all my time on the forums, but What a better way to meet fellow artists, learn from eachother, promote yourself, and your skills. I can't think of any, except perhaps a convention, but then that costs a lot of money and you have to travel a lot, someday I will goto some, but for now Forums are the best.

As for long nights, just to help reassure you what you will be looking at (don't know how the school runs, my program is a one year intensive, meaning we learn what say a sheridan student leanrs in almost two years, in only one year includng doing a film. May not be as in depth, but we are all definitely capable of telivision animation.) Here I spend fourteen hours a day working (thats how long the school is open, I have a computer there, and my home computer so I can frequent the forums, but I have no social life at all really, Don't even bother checkin out girls (since I am still available) since I have no time for a relationship at the moment, basically haven't seen family except for a weekend family reunion which cost me 500 canadian dollars to fly in and out of with little time to really enjoy myself, not too mention I brought my animation work with me, the only reassuring things are to know I will be done in two months, meaning I only speant a year in my life, where sheridan studenats and such, while overall getting a stronger education, spend three to four years of their life, and knowing that at the age of twenty, I am done my post secondary education (though I may learn either some C++ or some GErman in night school while I teach)

kiwi

09-03-2002, 11:09 AM

They wont be laughing when you kick their butts for the job they wanted or when your marks eclipse theirs :D {when it happens remember to savour the moment}

neilyb

09-03-2002, 11:10 AM

GERMAN! ARGHHHH! Well, I didn't speak a word of German till about 18 months ago, then I had to start working in German, writing German, swearing in German....but it could be useful wherever I end up! (probably back here!)

Family is not such a problem as I found a course (Multimedia) in my old town, so can bum with the family. But it does mean my mothers Pentium MMX 200mhz 64 MB ram computer will be of littel to no use.....lol:) But the course I found is at a dedicated art and design school. Among the software we will be taught are Flash and Cinema XL7.3.....the tutor reckons I should have no problem with what they will teach on these allowing me to concentrate on the fundamentals (such as animation and storyboards...). Also up their are Premier and After Effects, can I wait? As for time, I guess you get out what you put in, 14 hours being alot for someone with a social life (or at elast other things to do)!

I agree with Kai that the forums and web in general are a great place to learn and sell yourself! I reckon in the next 2 years I will need you guys.....hihi...and maybe my tutors?

As for doing a film, I've had this idea about a riverdancing Urangutan who can't get a job........then he discovers he can breakdance and the people on the street (in England) give him money.....:drool: :drool:

derwolpertinger

09-03-2002, 11:27 AM

hey neilyb , i wish you all the best! :) i'd love to go to such a school, too. but unfortunately-as you may know-the only school that teaxhes 3d and animation in germany is the "german film school" in berlin. and it is private which means that you have to pay 1500$ per month!!! i think this is ridiculous. i wonder who the hell can afford this and came to the conclusion that you gotta have damn rich parents to go and study there. that's s***! well, also wanted to say that finally my new comp arrived yesterday. a g4 dual 1 ghz with ddr ram-just 256 at the moment cause i did not have more money :(-but i can say that this sweetheart renders so damn fast. it is wonderful. the renderlines are really flying accross the pic. don't mind but i gotta get back to c4d now. :D

LucentDreams

09-03-2002, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by neilyb
As for doing a film, I've had this idea about a riverdancing Urangutan who can't get a job........then he discovers he can breakdance and the people on the street (in England) give him money.....:drool: :drool:

Imagine my horror when LostBOys (The largest Vancouver CG EFX house) came to our school to show their first short film (artists trying to find something to do during a slow month of now work) The film starts with a narrator reciting a poem Seussian style, about a Frakenstein like creature who desires no more than to dance.

Then just a week or two ago someone on animation nation posted a pice of animation he did for a tv project in wich there is a camera pan past some girls prcticing ballet, and then revealing a huge furry bear practicing ballet very akwardly, then I see a student film from a graduating class here, that has a scene of a gorilla moving around in a spotligh matchning almost the exact same compositino as mine (though different story entirely, quite funny ren adn stimpy style annimation)

Needless to say if you did do this film, I think its been done, if not as one film, as many others then. THough it does sound vaguely familiar to me :)

As for marks, we won't get into those, I was one to really keep in mind when our instructors said "marks don't matter its all in your portfolio" Assignments weren't as important as my film, as long as I meade sure to learn the concepts by doing each assignement I wasn't concerned with fully finishing them or doing the best job possible, but applying wat I was learning into my film. Naughty boy am I, and can't say its the best way to do it, but for me I felt that my film was the most important thing, as if for some strange reson I never get a job in this industry and become a manager at some Mcdonalds, I can at least say I made a film (I know at least one classmate won't be able to say that if not two )

LucentDreams

09-03-2002, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by derwolpertinger
hey neilyb , i wish you all the best! :) i'd love to go to such a school, too. but unfortunately-as you may know-the only school that teaxhes 3d and animation in germany is the "german film school" in berlin. and it is private which means that you have to pay 1500$ per month!!! i think this is ridiculous. i wonder who the hell can afford this and came to the conclusion that you gotta have damn rich parents to go and study there. that's s***! well, also wanted to say that finally my new comp arrived yesterday. a g4 dual 1 ghz with ddr ram-just 256 at the moment cause i did not have more money :(-but i can say that this sweetheart renders so damn fast. it is wonderful. the renderlines are really flying accross the pic. don't mind but i gotta get back to c4d now. :D

How many years, and how much is living expenses there, I paid $15000 candain just for school, and living costs aobut $900 per month thats 25800 for one year :surprised Man I just realised how crazy I am, not to metnion reminded me what kind of a loan I have to pay off afterwards.

derwolpertinger

09-03-2002, 11:46 AM

wow-that's much money, too kai! how many banks did you have to rob in order to get that money every month! :D

currently i am studying graphic design/visual communiaction but i am not happy with it anymore. for exapmple we develop logos there or corpoate designs for virtual or real companies. it is all for printing purposes, like magazines or catalogues. but i can say now that i really really WANT to work in the 3d bussines. so i am learning 3d at home right now and also study graphic design at school. so it would be much more efficient to go to a school that teaches 3d animation. if someone knows such a school in germany, except the german film school ;), plz tell me so cause i just don't know what to do at the moment! :(

neilyb

09-03-2002, 12:29 PM

Okay, forget the Urangutan, I reckon a big yellow Mosse will do the trick!:beer:
I did look for a course in Munich, so I could stay attached..but they only do courses in German here!
Actually the course in England costs about 1100 pounds a year, hope I read it right (thats about 1500 euros!). Sounds cheap suddenly. Living costs can be minimised by the living at home with parents (they didn't pay when I was 18, so they can do it now!). But living with them again....gives me the shivers. Luckilly all I will be doing is sitting upstairs, animation, learning or talking to you guys!
I don't come out being a doctor or anything, but as its a Multimedia course I do have an overall education (2D, 3D, DTP, Animation, compositing..etc..) which stands you in better stead to get a job in the indutsty...web, dtp..whatever. Then work up from there...hopefully! Also I am not sure I could do 3D all day everyday (even as a job), so the chance to work with other mediums will be right up my street!

LucentDreams

09-03-2002, 02:00 PM

No robbing banks, I paid for school myself, (through saved up money from work and a savings bond that recently matured that my granparents bought me when I wwas born) and I recieved and $8000 government loan, 5000 federal, 3000 provincial, then the rest of living is a little help from my father, some Canada ension of my mother since she passed away I am eligible to recieve part of her pension, and then more money saved from work. but trust me it hasn't been easy for a while all my roommate nd I ate was white rice and soysauce we had no money for fruits and vegetables even. literally was goin without food every other day just too keep some money save for an emergency, we were just holding out for my loan check to come in. it came way too late, so after starving for a while, now I will have extra money when I graduate, so I have rent money when I move back to edmonton :) ahh the life of a student, living off of jumbo sized 93 cent slices of pizza than is soaking with grease and needs to be folded just to eat :)

neilyb

09-03-2002, 02:12 PM

Your making me really look forward to this! At least I may loose weight......unless I have to wring my pizza out before eating....lol...suppose it can't be worse than the German diet of beer, beer, pork based products, pork, pork with skin and fat attached cooked to a crisp salty perfection, beer, strong dark beer, cloudy beer, pils beer...oh..they eat raddishes sometimes for a change and bread covered in salt....! Guess whatever I eat I will become a whole lot healthier!

Just the not eating for a day or so that sounds hard....:wavey:

matty2x4

09-03-2002, 09:01 PM

Well it looks like we are all moving on...
I think you lot sholud be happy they have schools that teach any sort of animation in your neighbourhoods. I am looking in to learning animation next year, the only school I can find is a 1 year Maya and Max class. I have done some ringing around and all the best advice any one could give me (inc Weta) was leave the country!
I have been trying to teach myself C4D for ages now but work, work and life tend to get in the way big time. After 8 years in the graphic design, mac op, Photoshop world it is time for a change and I have always wanted to learnd 3-D since I found Imagine on an Amiga 2000 at collage... um 1992 I think. Im just glad I dont have to learn German good luck to ya neilyb keep us posted.
matty