Dragon Test...

[kiwi]

Cool :)



Hes a little bit to specular.



Stu.

[Grey]

yah... I think I'm going to switch over from Colour to Metal.. the render I just did was a bit more 3D looking

[say-g]

hey grey im having some trouble getting the obj file of the dragon into cinema, ive also tried bodypaint, an i jsut cant seem to see it... any ideas ?

[Grey]

yes

Goto http://www.uvmapper.com

Run your file through UVMapper and see if that solves it.

I'm betting it's because the Dragon is a Lightwave created OBJ. DAZ has a luvaffairwith Lightwave at the moment.

(and LIghtwave SUX at OBJ creation).

Anyway, all you have to do is open the file in UVMapper, then save it over the old file.

[kiwi]

Grey try Oren nayar instead of phong,I find it really good for some organic looking surfaces :thumbsup:



Stu.

[Grey]

okay Kiwi, you must enlighten me: how do I set one or the other: Phong or OrinNayer... and to what?

[kiwi]

Your illumination channel in the material itself{under displacenment} - phong {default} Blinn {good for shiny surfaces,broader spec} Oren nayar { For textile like surfaces}........trust me you are going to love the illumination window from now on for your materials :thumbsup:



Stu.

[Kaiser_Sose]

Where can I dl this model

[Erik Heyninck]

At www.daz3D.com . There is (or was) a free limited version.

[Grey]

I'm rendering the commercial version, however. The free version comes with only the mode, and none of the morphs.

I posted details about it on this thread:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19409
Expect DAZ to be in and out... the whole world is hitting their site at the moment.

Kiwi, I'm not using a lum channel at all in any of these... :(

The reason I dind't is because all the tests I did with chanlum were to get human skin...

You think I should?

[kiwi]

No I dont mean luminannce bud :) Under displacement where the name says illumination you can set the different types of shading for the material.My knowledge of them is to minor to be able to explain it better sorry.I use blinn for metal usually,and oren nayar or neyer cant remember which for organic.


Let me try making a material for you to try and see if you like it more then chan lum :)


Stu.

[kiwi]

Try this mat Grey :)


I had 3 layers but layer 2 used 72k because of a complex alpha :hmm:

It still needs tweaking and I had to remove layer 2.


All channels are also set up for spherical as I tested it on a sphere.UVW or cubic would be much better for your Dragon I think.


Stu.

[Grey]

YOu da man Stu! :thumbsup: ]

Thank you.

You might actually be able to get to the DAZ site now that half of the U.S. is getting ready for bed...

[kiwi]

No prob Bud :thumbsup:



If you lke message me with your addie and I will send you the other bits as well :)



Stu.

[Grey]

I'm fine though, I'm still playing with it, though I kinda like the old specular I had since I wanted it to be very metalic looking... tring to downplay it a bit however

[Grey]

http://www.posergallery.com/images/thumb2252.jpg (http://www.posergallery.com/scripts/showimg.plx?Image=2252.jpg&title=MilDragon+Cinematest+2&artist=Grey)

http://www.posergallery.com/images/thumb2249.jpg (http://www.posergallery.com/scripts/showimg.plx?Image=2249.jpg&title=MilDragon+in+Cinema&artist=%3CB%3EGrey%3C/B%3E)

'K Stu! Now with your enhanced shaders.. whatcha think?

[neilyb]

Same picture?

[kiwi]

Hmmm :hmm: ....I am with Neil it looks like the same pic to me,but on looking closer I saw there is a difference.So that makes think it is probably lighting.It looks to me very like hand painted pewter,you know the look I mean?,and it definitely looks metal so you have the right effect :)



The Dragon would look really cool on a wooden base set on a wooden desk or something :)



Now that I have your addie I will tweak the skin and see if I can make it look more metal for you :)


Stu.

[Grey]

NO, those are thumbnails. Click on them :D

I'm using a UVMapped figure, BTW.

here are the UV templates:
http://free.daz3d.com/poserfree/ps_an047.sit

[neilyb]

Are you texturing with BP?

[Per-Anders]

Getting there Grey... what it feels like at the moment to me though is a little bit flat.

So I'd change the lighting to give it a more dramatic edge... i know how difficult this can be whne you've spent so long lovingly creating a texture/model and then the whole thing about dramatic lighting is that it hides a heap of what you've done! But on the other hand it will really show off your work to it's best, after all you're making an image not just a texture. So make a nice bright light as your main light, maybe give it a little bit of volumetrics... perhaps put in some background scene (maybe raging grey storm clouds blurring past or anything)... lower the ambient levels on your dragon, you want that light to give some nice blacks in there as well as some bright shiny whites... perhaps you might also want to change the DOF for the camera make it a bit more extreme/fisheyed and give a little bit of motion blur/DOF blur. It's a very dynamic pose so you really want to emphasise it as much as you can... dont just make it dynamic make it... i don't know... make it winged death, or reptilian elegance. It just needs to be less concentrated on the textures (which I think you've done a wonderful job on, the only thing i'd change would perhaps be the wing texture to make it a little bit more leathery and less papery) and more on the image.

[kiwi]

Well thats a big doh!!!! :hmm: from me,thumnails huh........looks much better bud.



mdme_sadie has pretty much covered anything else I would have added :)



So do you want the Dragon to look metal or organic?



Stu.

[Grey]

What I'm using are the DAZ textures that came with it, and doing enhancement with SLA, chanlum, dirtynuts etc...

Largely thanks to KIWI's files... :D

No work in BP has been done here.

What's DOF?

Kiwi, Metalic I think would be best...

I kinda wish you had the model :D But he's useless without Poser...

[derwolpertinger]

DOF means "deepth of field". it is the effect that recreates the blur, regarding the camera lens, the distance to the objects and the.....can't really explain it in english-don't know the right words so i looked up on the internet to find an english explanation. here it is:


Knowing what will appear to be in focus (and what will be out of focus) is one of the most basic considerations when making any photograph. Although exact focus occurs only at the precise focusing distance, depending on film format, lens focal length, aperture size and focus distance, the apparent range of focus, or depth of field, can vary considerably. Additionally the size of a print made from the film will have an effect on this apparent depth of field. It should be noted that an 8x10 inch print has long been considered the standard by which most lens manufacturers base their depth of field guidemarks on.

Without going into the physics involved, this apparent depth of field is due to a phenomena called circle of least confusion. When an object is at the exact distance the lens is focused, every point on the object will focus to a point on the film plane. When an object moves out of focus, on the film these points begin to grow and become circles. The farther out of focus an object is, the larger these circles become. But up to a certain point (again depending on film size, lens focal length, etc.), these circles of confusion are unobtrusive and the image appears to be in focus over a range of distances and has 'depth of field'.

hope this helps :)

[kiwi]

Ooooh very good explanation Derwolpertinger :thumbsup:....do you mind if I call you dw? :)


Grey now I see where you are coming from.To go with a metal effect I would maybe add little peices of crystal,maybe even crystal eyes.



A metal effect is pretty much all in the specular.Actually grab a copy of that larger Castle render that Kai put on his site for me and try it in the environment channel and see how it looks :)


Stu.

[Kaiser_Sose]

Is this done with Cinemas default textures or made maps

If this is all Cinema, then why dont they market Cinema with their texturing tools better

[Grey]

Kaiser_Sose, the model and textures were created at DAZ. I'm only using them as a base to get surface effect.

And trying to take everyone's advice and help to heart :D

mdme_sadie
"lower the ambient levels on your dragon, you want that light to give some nice blacks in there as well as some bright shiny whites"

In hte image where the dragon is on all fours, there is only one light set at 200% illumination. You can probably see that due to the very dark shadows.

In the other, I have two lights, one offset at 150% illum and the other behind the camera at 25% illum. There is no luminance on the dragon's surface itself. But there is significant Diffusion, including a shader Kiwi gave me with DirtyNuts set in (I especiallly like the effect that puts on the Teeth).

I'm still working with it. What I'm trying now is I've taken the default Bump Map and am making it more contrasty in order to get better specular on the surface of the scales... (hopefully).

[facial]

Cool.... keep post.


:applause:

[Per-Anders]

you're using the bump map in the specular colour channel right? if you want more specular on the scales that's a good way to go (and of course up the overall specular level and width).

What the dragon on all fours is missing for me is depth, so i'd make the light only cast say, on the head, and then have a real soft edge light or maybe some speckled light casting down onto the dragon as if it's in a cave with only a few shafts of light burning down onto the image (just one idea that's all) the trouble is that by having the same light along the whole length of the body it flattens out. with the other image, move the lower intensity light away from behind the camera and put it diametrically opposite the strong light to give a bit more volume to the shape of the dragon (darks facing the camera, lights towards the edges). Depth is really what i think would make these images stand out. But your'e doing a really good job, so well done so far!!! :)

[Grey]

Sadie, what do you mean by "Speckled LIght" I understand the concept, but not the function.

[Per-Anders]

ok a good way to think with an image is in narrative, this is good as narratives express/convey emotion (i promise this iwll explain the speckled light) so keeping it simple

you're in a cave (don't ask me why, and don't be scared... yet) it's dark, cool, scary, but there are shafts of light coming down through holes in the ceiling (speckled light) along with a few tree roots and every so often the odd slippage of rock dust... you probably get the idea that you don't want to be in this cave next time there's a quake. You can tell that outside it's brilliant sunlight, and probably looks like either a lot out in the dessert near la, or somewhere in greece covered in dust green scrub and crooked trees. there's a noise, you freeze, then it's there right in front of you in the light.. what you thought was a rock suddenly turns out to be about 50 tons of pure premium grade dragon which coincidentally hasn't had it's afternoon snack yet and is feeling rather peckish...

now go make that image!

[Per-Anders]

ok so in order to make the speckled light... what you will need is to put volumetric lights on, use a spotlight above the dragon (or maybe a couple, the one nearest should be brighter than the one further back to emphasise the scale of the beast and teh depth of the image, it could also be a slightly cooler colour) maybe put a couple of non shadowing and non volumetric lights down slightly beneath the ground where the spot lights hit the ground make them a low colour (probably something warm, a dark brown grey would do) make them omni lights. on the spotlights you should add noise to just the visible part, then play around with the noise settings, push the light closest up in value up to maybe 150 or 200%, the one further back can be 100%. Use whatever methods you want to give the impression of them coming inthrough cracks in the ceiling... either use an image map, or if your'e feeling confident use a scaled up 2d noise. or you could model a bit of simple geometry for them to cast their shadows through. remove all ambient lights in the scene apart from one that falls off before it gets to the dragon behind the beast (i.e. on the far side of the dragon to the camera) this will light up the background without affecting the dragon, make this light or these lights very dim. you may want to add another spotlight casting volumetric light down in the background against the wall, again make sure thees aren't as bright as the foreground light. maybe with the texture of the dragon you might want to either put a slight glow on it (just make the inside glow to about 100% rather than the default 500%) so that it bleaches out in the sun, or you may want to lower the contrast on teh texture istelf so that where the light hits it at 200% it get's really light and pale even in the dark bits, or you can widen the specularity to do this. of course the dragon needn't be in a cave it could be out of doors or anywhere but you need to keep the lighting from being too even no matter what, always light the face & eyes slightly more than the rest of the body (or whatever part of it you want the focus to be) allow for distance drop off of lights.

[Grey]

Sadie, you RAWK :thumbsup:

I promis you new renders by tomorrow evening :beer:

[Grey]

Hokay...

I think I've got it exactly where I want it now.

Sadie, Kiwi, thank you very much for all your help.

I've uploaded the new reners if you want to take a look :D

[kiwi]

The new renders are linked to the old thumbs? yes :)



The wing tex needs a little more oomph.Try stupl noise {think its stupl} and make the black in the noise 50% grey to cancel it out and see if you like the effect of just using the white.



Stu.

[Grey]

hmm...

I'm not sure how to get the gray out as that's a result of the Luminance Channel with Fusion: Chanlum over Falloff.

The bump maps I'm locked into for now. You can't use any but UVMapping on these. The wings are supposed to be very thin, so I think I'll probably need to paint vains or something... and maybe make them shinier.

[Per-Anders]

the texture is looking much better now, more organic in an oily reptilian kinda way. :)

ok... this is an ultra simple lighting setup that has some drama in it. just one spotlight overhead with volumetric lighting on at about 15% of the total lights brightness (near 400%) and an omni underneath with no shadows pretty low with a warm colour to give the reflected light. now imagine using some nice shape for the spotlight (like a crack in the ceiling).

oh and for hte wings... don't make them more shiny to make them look thin.. juse again use lighting and use some banj to give the effect of lights coming through the wings because they're so thin. (lights on the back of the wings, again pretty much eliminate lights in front of the camera/object to give more drama to a scene). but good work, getting there :)

[Grey]

I never thought to turn lights up that high!

What I normally do, and you can tell me how much in error I am, is use lots lf little lights summing up to about 100% illum (maybe this is why after nearly five years in 3D I'm just now getting my render wings...).

Also, BANJ... this is a complete mystery to me how to apply that.

The wings alredy have a transparency Map applied to the UVMap, being only one singlesided vertex layer thick.

BTW, they're still giving away the free version of the model I just noticed.

[Per-Anders]

Ok well... i always think that with 3d although the physics is ok... you ahve to cheat an awful lot, so that's why i put the lights up so high.... to get some real contrast between where the lights were and where they weren't on the model (if you weren't already aware it's just one of the free Zygote humans that come with C4D, so don't flame me for using that, and yes i really did only take a ocuple of minutes out of my day for that rather pants render, so again please don't flame me i needed something quick to illustrate the point).

The Banj shader... well the best way to use this is to put it in the luminosity channel, then change the colour to suit your texture (if you want you can just have it in a fusion driving the luminance of the wing texture, taht way you get more than just a single colour). What it does if you didn't already know is it transmits light through the object, giving what in other packages is called translucence (as opposed to transparency). Try playing around with the settings, the darker doughnut shape is actually the shadow of a torus on the far side of the plane (hey it might be obvious to some of you but i was completely confused when i first played around with this!) so basically how dark that is is how dark the shadows will appear coming through the wings, so if you're going to use banj... make sure you have some shadows to show off this effect.

[Per-Anders]

ah i just downloaded the model... damn poser 5 came out for pc yesterday... no mac version yet :( poser 4 came with both pc and mac version on one cd *sigh* damn useful app poser, especially for architecural scenes, will have to upgrade when the mac version finally comes out.

[anobrin]

I downloaded the free LE version of the DAZ Dragon yesterday
and he animates well. here is a rough flying sequence rendered in Cinema 4DXl
it needs much more secondary motion but i cranked this basic animation out in about 22 minutes
I definately need to properly texture him though

http://66.70.166.29/promo/dragon.mpg

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