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LNT
09-01-2002, 06:38 AM
I've been trying to download this file for days now and the link really doesnt work - would anyone share it please?

Newtek - include this plugin and JJ Special Projection in Layout as soon as possible - otherwise you cannot claim you have the best render engine without such simple but so vital rendering options - hunting these scripts and their updates is a pain the rear

(oh,and I want specular flares as well :) )

Eugeny
09-01-2002, 07:11 AM
Here's (but i not tried et)

Kaiser_Sose
09-01-2002, 07:32 AM
JJ Special Projection?

CIM
09-01-2002, 08:45 AM
Use Bloom for specular flares.

Eugeny
09-01-2002, 08:48 AM
... or Corona :thumbsup:

LNT
09-01-2002, 10:44 PM
thanks for the file Eugeny :)

bloom or corona are OK but they are more like a specular glow than flares - there's no streaks

if you look carefully @ car speculars for example you'll see not only the glow but numerous tiny lilttle streaks as well

we should be able to amplify and indeed exaggerate the same effect in lw

NanoGator
09-01-2002, 11:30 PM
I've found Special Projection to be a little buggy. I'd like Newtek to wait until it's fixed up a bit. I've had some bizarre problems with it not rendering lines etc. That was on the fisheye bit, though, I haven't played with the orthagonal views.

Eugeny
09-03-2002, 07:07 AM
if you look carefully @ car speculars for example you'll see not only the glow but numerous tiny lilttle streaks as well
U are right but photographers always trying to avoid this effect using some filters... Also the lance flares...
Anyway it's weary nice effect and damn Max have this from ver. 2!
May be its possible to use rendered lance flare as a texture for corona?

LNT
09-03-2002, 12:35 PM
I've found Special Projection to be a little buggy. I'd like Newtek to wait until it's fixed up a bit

NewTek shouldnt wait for anyone to do the job for them,they can do the job themselves and even better than lw user's spare time utilities

and JJ projection's been rock stable on really high res spherical renders,it's now updated to 7.5 compatibility but I havent used this newest version yet
what I dont like about JJ's plug is that it is a PixelFilter so you cant use it to render in mix w/ other pixel filters :(


Eugeny -

some photographers may try to avoid that effect and I fully understand them - these funny colored circles that are associated with real world camera lens flares are not to everyone's taste

what I want is glow with white streaks only,no rings at all
- imagine what kind of magic you could make with that,just playing with the number of streaks per highlite and their pixel lenght - no need for compositing package

another rendering tool that I consider essential (this time for photorealism) is Reflection Displacement/Distortion
there's this new plug Hypersmooth that claims to do true reflections but in fact all it does is simply manipulate lw reflection buffer more or less the photoshop way

what I want to see in LW is what I see in real world:

have you noticed that reflections even on perfectly flat building windows are so often curved and extremely distorted,or better example would be a reflection bend youd see in a very old mirror
I guess this has to do with the surface being non-uniformly refractive or something

lw reflections are way too perfect and reflection blurring is an entirely different subject form having a very clear but at the same time totally bent reflected image

ah wishes,wishes...

Cman
09-03-2002, 01:14 PM
Is this what you mean by a warped mirror?
I just put a soft bump on the mirror surface and it gets plenty distorted.

proton
09-03-2002, 01:33 PM
great solution Cman!:beer:

LNT
09-04-2002, 08:58 AM
heh,I knew someone would come&try to shut me up with this little workaround :)

lwavers have been using it for quite awhile but I'd hardly call it a solution mr.proton :)

Bump map has that nasty habit of affecting not only Reflection channel but also all other channels as well (probably cos it was designed to do so) ...
so if you have say a green surace with 60% diffuse and 30% reflection values and you try to displace the reflection buffer with your bump map you'll end up modifying your diffuse channel as well so it wont look like warped reflection at all and you'll ruin your uniformly flat&green glass
not to mention what your bump map will do to the Specularity buffer image,that's where bump maps are the most noticeable
and I usually add a bit of specularity to my reflective surfaces cos speculars are nothing more than a reflection of a light source

this trick works as long as you keep your surface pitch black and 100% reflective or near these values

one of the solutions would be to add another texture option to reflection channel,this one not to control the reflection strenght but to displace the ReflectionBuffer instead

Cman
09-04-2002, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by LNT
heh,I knew someone would come&try to shut me up with this little workaround :)

lwavers have been using it for quite awhile but I'd hardly call it a solution mr.proton :)

Bump map has that nasty habit of affecting not only Reflection channel but also all other channels as well (probably cos it was designed to do so) ...
so if you have say a green surace with 60% diffuse and 30% reflection values and you try to displace the reflection buffer with your bump map you'll end up modifying your diffuse channel as well so it wont look like warped reflection at all and you'll ruin your uniformly flat&green glass
not to mention what your bump map will do to the Specularity buffer image,that's where bump maps are the most noticeable
and I usually add a bit of specularity to my reflective surfaces cos speculars are nothing more than a reflection of a light source

this trick works as long as you keep your surface pitch black and 100% reflective or near these values

one of the solutions would be to add another texture option to reflection channel,this one not to control the reflection strenght but to displace the ReflectionBuffer instead

LNT, I wasn't try to "shut you up", as you put it.
I was merely showing that the bump map does indeed displace the reflections. It's also been my experience that warped building windows, your supplied example, disturb everything else in the surface (ie: all other "channels") because they are in fact, warped.

Instead of using a bump map, I suppose you could deform the geometry itself, and thereby truly get a real-world result.
Good luck. :)

LNT
09-04-2002, 01:57 PM
it was said in good humour cman,i know you know that :)

but I dont see how I can model the reflection displacement when the real world window surfaces are a totally flat geometry (boxes)

I can only think of some kind of texture displacement as apossible solution,pretty much the way bump map does it in your example but limited only to a reflection buffer

as I said,wishes.wishes...

I am not trying to be a pain in the newteks butt,the reason I make posts like these is simple:

I've done my share of going around the 3d software boards shouting "LightWave Rules" - I've done that and it was back in the day when LW really had the features other packages couldnt touch (like HVoxels,Radiosity,caustics all in one integrated rendering package,SubDs in modeler etc...)

but the line between packages has become increasingly blurred within the past one year or so,now they all have their subds,radiosities and plenty of features us wavers are still waiting for,so I try to make a call to newtek peeps to take things very seriously - coming from an end user such as myself

I know the next LW is in the making and they better be very alert and listen to what we need and our ideas

Cman
09-04-2002, 02:09 PM
Pretty much nothing physically made is a perfectly flat plane like in 3D programs. Remember the Hubble Space Telescope had had MILLIONS of dollars spent to just make one perfectly smooth mirror, and they still got it wrong. :)
So, trust me, mass-produced windows are FAR from perfectly flat.
That's why the reflections get distorted, because the windows are warped slightly.
All you gotta do is maybe do a tiny jitter on your object to introduce "manufacturing errors".

That's what I'd suggest anyway.
Your idea for a channel modifier to distort reflections without actually creating a bump map would be cool. More control is always better imho.

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