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MyAMeE
12-13-2004, 10:49 PM
Dose any one know were I can find I plug in that export from XSI to flash?

JDex
12-13-2004, 11:10 PM
http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=11894

TonyEdwards
12-14-2004, 01:14 AM
@JDex - Do you think there is any hope? I'd imagine with FND there's got to be more demand for it now.

@MyAMeM -You can try this. I don't know how good it is and there may be a link to it in the link provided by JDex.

Swuff - http://www.aldis.org.uk/3DResources/Scripts.htm

MikeMD
12-14-2004, 01:14 AM
You don't need a flash exporter or a plug-in.

Flash imports bimap sequences and video. There is really no advantage to using vectors. They look worse than bitmaps, they have larger file size when rendering anything more complex.

The only reason to use vectors is if you like the look, which again can be done even better with toon shaders.

JDex
12-14-2004, 01:34 AM
@JDex - Do you think there is any hope? I'd imagine with FND there's got to be more demand for it now.
Based upon the responses from Electric Rain... I think not. If enough pressure is put on SI (and there may already be :shrug:) then they will likely do something about it... but I would not expect it to be in FND at $495... it would probably either be a Essentials+ integration... or (my hope) SI will pick it up, and make it a addon... at the $500 range it would be worth it in my book...

You don't need a flash exporter or a plug-in.

Flash imports bimap sequences and video. There is really no advantage to using vectors. They look worse than bitmaps, they have larger file size when rendering anything more complex.

The only reason to use vectors is if you like the look, which again can be done even better with toon shaders.
As broadband advances and with the new Flash engine (soon to be released), vector rendering will likely be a mute point soon. As it stands currently, I disagree. In my experience bitmap and vector of similar quality is nearly the same in size, and with some manual output editing you can really make vector much smaller... of course you have to tweak it, but we do that already in post. The big advantage on the vector size is playback quality... bitmap just cant compare. Artifacting from compression (video) and stutter in current flash engine on bitmap sequences just make for a low quality experience IMHO.

Bottom line... don't hold your breathe, but don't be surprised either.

JDex
12-14-2004, 01:47 AM
Ironically I just bought the Swift3d v4 standalone. :D

<sings>Don't have to send files to my friend no-more - HA!</sings>

*scurries back into his cage.

MikeMD
12-14-2004, 01:49 AM
I've seen people render single object like a car or a motorcycle and file size was bigger than a full flash game done by my partner ( all bitmaps )

http://www.deusx.com/baseball

or

http://www.deusx.com/football/game.html


That can never be done with vectors and look that good. And we have done plenty of research. For things like games where you need to squeeze every possible frame per second during playback, bitmaps render faster and better than vectors. You are right about video artifacts, but then again video is a completely different thing which cannot be done with vectors anyway ( vectors will always have that cartoon look )

JDex
12-14-2004, 02:15 AM
Those look really great... mostly static though... with lots of animation those would be massive... when I get this copy of Swift and play around abit with it, I'll do some tests and report back with some examples and conclusions.

Can't really show any past stuff... NDAs and all.

MikeMD
12-14-2004, 02:28 AM
If you could render those players in Swift and use the same amount of animation, I think that files would be even bigger. Those games are between 500k and 800k.

Swift is good for architectual type of thing with mostly boxy objects and straight lines. As soon as you start using organic stuff like people, file size goes through the roof.

Some simpler cartoony characters may work with Swift. I've seen it done, and if you scale them they'll scale cleaner than bitmaps, but that's all I can think of as far as Swift advantages go. ( We have older version of Swift by the way )

Funky
12-14-2004, 10:55 AM
Hi

An alternative to the bitmap file is the PNG, better quality when compressed, alpha channel and good integration with Flash.


Naim

MikeMD
12-14-2004, 02:07 PM
Those games use both .png with alpha and bitmaps. Even with different compression settings for .png frames themselves to find the right balance between file size and no artifacts.

For example first frame, when a player is static is uncompressed. Once he starts moving you can compress those frames because any artifacts will not be noticeable due to movement.

RangTang
12-14-2004, 02:09 PM
SWF vectors are cpu intensive, so in a complex scene they can actually slow down the animation. What makes a vector look so good is simple clean lines, they are pixel free and can scale to any size. With XSI you need to export dotxsi and convert to 3DS for Swift3D to capture the animated vector data.

Iysun
12-14-2004, 08:34 PM
Theres a new 3d flash product that looks really promising, however inorder for XSI to use it we would need the capability to export VRML97. All the other major packages are able to export to this format. This is the product im talking about.

http://www.kaon.com/software/swflash.html

you will need flash and java installed in your browser.

its a little expensive right now but the price may drop some since its brand new. Also this is a quote from one of the poeple at that company,
"If they (XSI) export VRML97, we'll ensure our software can read what they write."

so another option, IMO this one looks much better then what electric rain does anyways

francescaluce
12-15-2004, 08:24 PM
take a look here what some guys did with just 1600k.....

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/supercoolpicillusion.html




ciao
francesca

Rabid pitbull
12-15-2004, 08:47 PM
take a look here what some guys did with just 1600k.....

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/supercoolpicillusion.html




ciao
francesca
That is very cool nice link!

MyAMeE
12-16-2004, 05:09 PM
JDex thanks
I donít know if any of you guys seen these two sites, and I am sure that there are more http://www.tokyoplastic.com/ (http://www.tokyoplastic.com/) and http://www.neostream.com/ (http://www.neostream.com/) they both utilizes 3d. The charter for neosteam you can tell is imported by bit map and not by vector or in the swf format. Some people may use to export their 3d projects out for charter purposes in flash. Personally I donít like it. Navigation in 3d is another story. Has any one here seen the MTV bases in UK web site a couple of years ago in 3d? They took that version site it down, but that site was a good example of the utilization of navigation 3d menus buttons in flash.
I saw Swuff - http://www.aldis.org.uk/3DResources/Scripts.htm and have no idea how to install it. If any one can give me pointers that would be great.
I have the stand alone copy of swift 3d v3 but rather have the plug in for XSI.

MyAMeE
12-16-2004, 05:22 PM
take a look here what some guys did with just 1600k.....

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/supercoolpicillusion.html




ciao
francescaI like this site. It would also be mind boggling if the objects on the page were in depth as you pass by them. Take a look at this site to get an idea to what I am talking about. Turning 2d pictures in to 3d http://www.cs.ust.hk/~cpegnel/glTIP/ (http://www.cs.ust.hk/~cpegnel/glTIP/) its not in flash but what if this could be done in flash.

PetterSundnes
12-17-2004, 01:55 PM
Might I bump in here and suggest using ShockWave3D for web 3D as it enables you to create interactive realtime 3D. I am doing tutorials on the issue over in the LW forum, but it can be applied to any other 3D app:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=194097

XSI to SW3D exporter:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=40584

I have not tried the exporter myself, so I am not sure how it works.


If Flash is what you want to use, then just render out a normal video and import it into Flash 7.0 (or as an image sequence as others have mentioned).

MikeMD
12-17-2004, 08:33 PM
Yes, shockwave has real 3D, but the issue is plug in penetration.

Everybody has at least Flash version 6, while Shockwave plug in is at maybe 50-60% and a huge download for people on dial up ( still 50% in US and a lot more in other countries ).

So if you want the widest possible audience Flash is the way to go.

If you must have real interactive 3D, then flash can't really do it anyway. But most things and 3D can be faked in Flash to some,satisfactory, degree, so it's just a matter of what's more important to you.

And I agree again. Bitmap ( PNG with alpha or .bmp if you don't need alpha ) sequences are the way to go. Exporting vectors rarely make sense.

MyAMeE
12-18-2004, 02:25 PM
MikeMD (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=100639): I have thought of importing bit map into flash. I have seen great looking sites that have done this. The thing is that I wanted to achieve a particular look that I had envisioned doing in flash by using vectors. I can use another app to get this do, but I invested money in XSI.

Blender a free app has a flash plug-in using a python script. http://www3.sympatico.ca/emilio.aguirre/s2flender.html (http://www3.sympatico.ca/emilio.aguirre/s2flender.html)

May be some one here can find this code useful on making a plug in for XSI.

petterms (http://www.cgtalk.com/member.php?u=50415): I have an intermediate director back ground, I am lacking in the 3d section in director. It so happens that I requested over at Lynda.com on them making a director 3d content video tutorial. I do not hear the folks over at Macromedia.com talking much on this subject.

MikeMD
12-18-2004, 03:03 PM
Can you use XSI's toon shader to achieve the look you are after and then export that as a bitmap sequence? I would think you'd have many more options/variations playing with those shaders than using a vector exporter.

Apoclypse
12-18-2004, 04:06 PM
Yes but exporting animations through bitmaps is kind of a big download isn't it?

MikeMD
12-18-2004, 06:25 PM
Exporting frames as vector sequence can be just as big or bigger. It all depends on what the animation is.

I've seen people output something like a simple rotating car or a motorcycle at almost 1MB.

wmendez
12-18-2004, 06:46 PM
Before I had SwiftXSI, I did something a similar a while ago by exporting the frames from XSI and bringing them into flash see rotating product here www.razorpocket.com

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