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danydrunk
12-13-2004, 11:41 PM
Im not buying any other EA game ever. This is ridiculous. Now they have total monopoly over sports games. Whats going to happen to the great ESPN franchise? this can only be a bad thing for the sports game fans. The more options the better.

Five-year agreement gives EA sole rights to the NFL, including teams, players, and stadiums; deal sure to reshape sports gaming. Electronic Arts has signed the biggest sports free-agent on the market. In a devastating blow to competitors, the software giant has signed an exclusive deal with the National Football League and the NFL Players Inc., a subsidiary of the NFL Players Association. The deal is an exclusive five-year licensing deal granting EA the sole rights to the NFL's teams, stadiums, and players. The arrangement encompasses action simulation, arcade style, and manager games made for PCs, consoles, and handhelds, giving EA a firm hold on the football gaming market. The deal does not include titles for mobile phones or internet-based games, but does include online features of consoles. With next-generation consoles scheduled for release next holiday season, EA looks to handily dominate the professional football market for the duration of the license. "We are excited about the opportunity to further enhance our relationship with the NFL and PLAYERS INC," said Larry Probst, Chairman and CEO of Electronic Arts. "The five-year agreements will usher NFL fans through the console technology transition with new ideas and innovative game play experiences." EA's current roster of NFL games includes the top-selling Madden franchise and the extreme football NFL street franchise. The deal is obviously bad news for EA's competitors, particularly ESPN Videogames and Sega, who stole a respectable chunk of EA's Madden football market with their NFL 2K series and it's budget price tag this year of $19.99. On trading nearly three times it usual amount, EA stock was up more than $3 today. The stock closed at $57.57, up $3.38 or 6.24 percent with 16,574,606 shares trading hands on the NASDAQ. In after hours trading, the stock at press time had jumped another $2.88 to trade at $60.45.

www.gamespot.com

danydrunk
12-13-2004, 11:44 PM
I just wish electronic arts dissapeared. They destroyed gaming as we knew it. I HATE THEM !@#@#$

hanger102
12-13-2004, 11:44 PM
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh57675_2004-12-13_21-56-34_n13168279_newsml

What next, are they going to make their own console(it wouldn't surprise me). This is a shame. The EA boycot just officially started.

Icarus
12-13-2004, 11:50 PM
hmm.. i wonder if we'll end up seeing Fifa/Madden pushouts all over again? i always loved seeing what they never did in the "Latest" version of Fifa when it was released apart from maybe a new texture and a player name and or venue..

richcz3
12-14-2004, 12:34 AM
The company is definately showing its deeper pockets. Console development is a real sap on teh bottom line. I am sure at some point EA will venture into other entertainment beyond games publishing. They are too big now to keep their eggs in one basket. We will eventually be looking at a diversified entertainment media giant.

Stahlberg
12-14-2004, 12:44 AM
Not quite sure I understand how a company can copyright a whole sport... is it because of the real-life connection? What's the big deal anyway about seeing some particular real person's name on the screen as you're playing? Why not have made-up players, in a made-up league? Keep everything the same, call it AFL instead, set it 10 years in the future or whatever, use some creativity guys...

Well I always hated watching sports on TV, and playing these games even more, so I guess I'm not the right person to talk about it... :)

worker_bee
12-14-2004, 01:04 AM
This is crazy. How can something like this happen. They have a monopoly on the whole football franchise now. With no competition we can only expect crappier version of games. This is good for no one other the suits over at EA.

Dirtystimpy
12-14-2004, 01:04 AM
This is major concern to me. Competition only brings a better product, and without any real competition....ughhhhhh!

and i don't even like madden!

leuey
12-14-2004, 01:06 AM
That may be possible but nobody will want it. For whatever reason people want the actual players and the actual teams with the absolute most up-to-date stats. People get fanatical about it. And now with an exclusive liscense (wonder how much they shelled out for that?) - they will extend their dominance. It's possible they'll sign one w/ the NBA too. At that point they have the console makers in the palm of their hand. Don't want to pay the license to develope playstation games? Fine, no NFL for playstation. Only XBox....

They already buy up all the licenses for the movie titles. You would think a company with their money and work force could put out a decent game - all the cutting edge stuff comes from smaller shops (Valve, ID, Farcry people - coming from an fps fan...)

later,

Greg



Not quite sure I understand how a company can copyright a whole sport... is it because of the real-life connection? What's the big deal anyway about seeing some particular real person's name on the screen as you're playing? Why not have made-up players, in a made-up league? Keep everything the same, call it AFL instead, set it 10 years in the future or whatever, use some creativity guys...

Well I always hated watching sports on TV, and playing these games even more, so I guess I'm not the right person to talk about it... :)

danydrunk
12-14-2004, 01:34 AM
There has to be something we can do !!! lets promote anti Electronic arts even in the non hardcore gamers. I hate them. I really do. (not the employees) but the executives. they have done something that is bad for the game industry. No other company will make a football game to compete with them since they own the nfl rights. The madden franchise will be even more mediocre. By doing this they are also affecting a lot of jobs for the espn games. Cant they just compete fair ??? They obviously dont believe in their franchise. They know espn is getting better and instead of competing they simply buy the rights of the nfl........how good EA. This will make this gaming industry more competitive.

elam
12-14-2004, 01:48 AM
A source close to the negotiations said it was at a spring, 2004, off-site meeting attended by top NFL officials that the league determined it would take the league license exclusive. GameSpot was told the league put the license up for bid and that EA was among as many as five software publishers competing for it. An EA spokesperson said today, "Obviously, exclusives are more expensive. We are most certainly paying a premium."
You guys are blaming EA? If I'm reading this right, the NFL decided to license the NFL franchise to one video game distributor. EA simply has deep pockets. Are y'all going to boycott the NFL as well?

MosaFacku
12-14-2004, 01:58 AM
maybe sports developers will have to start getting creative so we'll have sweet sports titles again. like mutant league football. WOOT!

clockwerkz
12-14-2004, 02:14 AM
Not quite sure I understand how a company can copyright a whole sport... is it because of the real-life connection? What's the big deal anyway about seeing some particular real person's name on the screen as you're playing? Why not have made-up players, in a made-up league? Keep everything the same, call it AFL instead, set it 10 years in the future or whatever, use some creativity guys...

Well I always hated watching sports on TV, and playing these games even more, so I guess I'm not the right person to talk about it... :)
Yeah, unfortunately a professional football game without the players would be absolute crap. There's a reason Madden comes out late in the summer; to make sure they get a finalized roaster as close to the real teams as possible. Besides,i The Player's Association is what allows game companies to develop the characters based on real players. That's why college ball games don't have names featured on them. No Players Association for them, and it would be slightly screwy to be paying royalty to college kids.

As far as the deal goes, it really doesn't bother me much. I don't like any of the other NFL based games anyway. I only play Madden and NCAA by EASports.

cW

Lyr
12-14-2004, 02:27 AM
maybe sports developers will have to start getting creative so we'll have sweet sports titles again. like mutant league football. WOOT!
Definately! I would love a sports game where I could juice the players up on 'roids and other performance enhancing drugs. See how far you could push the players with custom cocktails before their hearts explode on the field! With enough trial and error I am sure you could get some insane records.

Nicodemus
12-14-2004, 02:39 AM
Sucks for the competition but I can't blame EA for taking advantage of the NFL wanting to go with an exclusive contract.

~L~

itsallgoode9
12-14-2004, 02:58 AM
I have been excited for next season's round of foot ball games since I had bought ESPN........finally, after years of the same exact madden game being published, it actually looked like there was going to be a major advancement in football games, as there was finally competion for EA and they were going to have to quite being lazy and actually produce a great video game for once. Now they went and f'ed it all up. I can not wait for this company to fall apart. They have single handedly sent the world of sports video gaming into mediocrity by producing nearly identical games year after year. Good job guys.

g8ff
12-14-2004, 03:11 AM
EA is a major annoyance to we small developers...unless of course they are paying your bills. it would be awesome though if someone would update some of those old genesis football titles...i.e. mutant league football and cyberball...those were top notch back in the day. just my opinion.

hilscreate
12-14-2004, 03:15 AM
Good sports games will exist regardless of what EA does.....

Anyone playing winning eleven 8 or ISS (in the US) knows what I am talking about.....

If the gameplay is brillant, absolutely stunning, something only crafted by people who love the sport, breath the sport. There will be a demand for them.....
So the players don't have real name, so they don't have real team.... so what?!!!

We have edit team options, customise options...

dotTom
12-14-2004, 04:32 AM
The real scary move I think was EA's recent acquisition of Criterion Software the makers of RenderWare.

http://www.renderware.com/pr_ea.asp

Lot of small and not so small game studies use the RenderWare cross platform middleware. One imagines when this news broke, that Uncle EA (their competitor) would be spoon feeding them updates in future, that shivers ran down collective spines.

Andyman
12-14-2004, 04:33 AM
It's incredibly annoying, and I like maybe 1% of EA's games (and those aren't even EA's ideas.. like C&C:Generals), but... life will go on.

It really will.

BoydLake
12-14-2004, 05:59 AM
Not quite sure I understand how a company can copyright a whole sport... is it because of the real-life connection? What's the big deal anyway about seeing some particular real person's name on the screen as you're playing? Why not have made-up players, in a made-up league? Keep everything the same, call it AFL instead, set it 10 years in the future or whatever, use some creativity guys...

Well I always hated watching sports on TV, and playing these games even more, so I guess I'm not the right person to talk about it... :)From what I understand it's not the sport, but the NFL. Granted, on the professional level that's all there is. Also, The AFL was purchased by the NFL long ago and is now the AFC conference. In my opinion, football games will always sell pretty well, but I don't think the market is likely to stay so hot for football year after year.

Viper
12-14-2004, 06:14 AM
Not quite sure I understand how a company can copyright a whole sport... is it because of the real-life connection? What's the big deal anyway about seeing some particular real person's name on the screen as you're playing? Why not have made-up players, in a made-up league? Keep everything the same, call it AFL instead, set it 10 years in the future or whatever, use some creativity guys...

Well I always hated watching sports on TV, and playing these games even more, so I guess I'm not the right person to talk about it... :)
That was one of the best things I read all day :) While I played NBA Live and Fifa quite a bit in the past, I must agree with on what you said. Even more, cause I was always doing my own teams for those games :)

bentllama
12-14-2004, 06:33 AM
Normally I reserve comments on fellow developers, and I love and respect my peers and friends at EA/Tiburon...but this one goes straight towards the publishing side of EA...

If you cannot make the best sports games, then why not lock out the competition?

EA sports

*sigh*

If they do this to NHL...and I miss out on the next title for the best hockey game out there [ESPN]...I am going to be severely pissed off.

PhantomDesign
12-14-2004, 06:56 AM
Not quite sure I understand how a company can copyright a whole sport... is it because of the real-life connection? What's the big deal anyway about seeing some particular real person's name on the screen as you're playing? Why not have made-up players, in a made-up league? Keep everything the same, call it AFL instead, set it 10 years in the future or whatever, use some creativity guys...

Well I always hated watching sports on TV, and playing these games even more, so I guess I'm not the right person to talk about it... :)You're just like me. I can't stand watching sports on television, and the only thing worse is playing sports video games.

But on to your real point...I agree completly. I don't see why today's society has absolutely no creativity. The best movie to date (in my opinion) is based off of a story written a few hundred years ago (LOTR - ROTK). Matrix 1 makes a good second place, but we all saw what happened to #2 & #3. I'm getting side-tracked...

Even if you have the option to mimic reality or use someone else's creativity, why not use your own creativity? I use to invent sports every week. If you invented a sport and put it in a video game and did a good job....who knows? People might start playing it for real...leagues form...it becomes a professional sports...you could have... [Dr. Evil] One Million Dollars![/Dr. Evil]

hanger102
12-14-2004, 07:27 AM
I am with you bentllama. As an artist in the industry I respect everyone who works there, but I also feel this is bad for us fans and gives us less choice. I've been a fan of the espn series ever since the dreamcast days. Just a few months ago this was a rumor and the NFL said that this deal will never happen. Just like everyother year they've tried(EA has been trying this for years), but I didn't think I would see the day that it actually happen. And this isn't the first sport either. ex Nascar, PGA, Fifa, and now the NFL. I have a feeling that they made an offer they couldn't refuse. I hope the ESPN series still release, because I would still buy it. Not only am I mad about this, but my company also because this hurts them too.

WillRyan
12-14-2004, 08:56 AM
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3137219

EA may have spent 1 billion dollars to shut down Sega/Take-Two?!?

If there ever was a definition of overkill, this has to be it.

Chug
12-14-2004, 09:57 AM
EA is a major annoyance to we small developers...unless of course they are paying your bills. it would be awesome though if someone would update some of those old genesis football titles...i.e. mutant league football and cyberball...those were top notch back in the day. just my opinion.Haven't you heard of that game ? http://digitaljesters.com/index.php?txtShow=product&ref=7

To me, it looks pretty much like what you people are looking for, it's out since summer, and nobody seem to know about it...

slaughters
12-14-2004, 12:53 PM
...So the players don't have real name, so they don't have real team.... so what?!!!...It does not matter if *you* feel this way if there are millions of others who do care about the real name, etc... For some strange reason there is just a huge market for that type of game.

slaughters
12-14-2004, 01:03 PM
.... based off of a story written a few hundred years ago (LOTR - ROTK). .... Funny :) The story was written (published) in 1955.

Tocpe
12-14-2004, 02:36 PM
Did you guys see the press release pic of the new EA representative responsible for putting together this deal? I don't know about this guy.... something about him seems a little, I don't know, a little evil...


http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/images/forums/misc/Darth_EA.jpg

SpeccySteve
12-14-2004, 03:01 PM
Good sports games will exist regardless of what EA does.....

Anyone playing winning eleven 8 or ISS (in the US) knows what I am talking about.....

If the gameplay is brillant, absolutely stunning, something only crafted by people who love the sport, breath the sport. There will be a demand for them.....
So the players don't have real name, so they don't have real team.... so what?!!!

We have edit team options, customise options...I tend to agree, real player names or not the ISS / Winning Eleven / Pro Evo games are so far ahead of the FIFA franchise gameplay wise that it's almost funny.

silvergun
12-14-2004, 03:08 PM
I've hated EA Since the snes/megadrive days and always knew they would end up as the Microsoft of the games industry. They will get far more powerful and rule the games industry with an iron fist. They have to be stopped or they will take over and the originality of games will be lost forever.

MasterBaiter
12-14-2004, 03:53 PM
maybe sports developers will have to start getting creative so we'll have sweet sports titles again. like mutant league football. WOOT!
Hopefully they'll go this route. No this won't attract the fans that are hard-up on real statistics, but these are some of the funnest games to play! :)

FloydBishop
12-14-2004, 04:19 PM
If they do this to NHL...and I miss out on the next title for the best hockey game out there [ESPN]...I am going to be severely pissed off.
Not to be doomsday, but with all the money the NHL lost this year, I'm sure they would welcome such a deal with open arms.

bentllama
12-14-2004, 04:22 PM
Not to be doomsday, but with all the money the NHL lost this year, I'm sure they would welcome such a deal with open arms.
*slap*

shhhh! the greedy players might hear you!

richcz3
12-14-2004, 04:32 PM
This is not the kind of news EA needed the gaming public to hear about at this time considering it must have cost one pretty penny. Not only are their current employees getting the shaft, but so are the employees of other compnies that produce competing products.

WillRyan
12-14-2004, 05:09 PM
At the rate they are going Floyd, I wouldn't be surprised if EA announces they are buying the entire league!

It probably isn't that far off.

danydrunk
12-14-2004, 05:55 PM
I feel for their workers, but I just wish something bad happened to EA. I dont want them in my gaming world. I hate them. I HATE THEM since so many time ago.

Something for Electronic Arts:

You wont be remembered for making the best games
You wont be remembered for treating their employees with respect
You wont be remembered for being fair with the competition

You will only be remembered for taking the fun out of the gaming world.
You will be remembered for your thousands of attempts at making a decent soccer game without succes.
You will be remembered for monopolizing the game industry.
You will be remembered for treating your employees like shit.

Isnt there something positive Electronic arts wants to do?

I hate the company and I wish some bad business decision happens and they get in trouble.
I want them to dissapear

Ryan-B
12-14-2004, 06:01 PM
Not only are their current employees getting the shaft, but so are the employees of other compnies that produce competing products.
Most of EA's employees have stock options and shares in the company. Take a look at the stock price over the last few days (ERTS). Anyone with equity in EA will be happy with the NFL deal.

Stonepilot
12-14-2004, 06:37 PM
Sad, Sad, competition is healthy. Call Of Duty. Replace Medal of Honor. ESPN football looked a more polished game than Madden this year and EA went anb baught the football league rights. Holy crap does that mean that they'll go after WW II shooter rights. OH oh.

I'm never buying an EA game again. EVER.

mummey
12-14-2004, 06:40 PM
Oh well, there's always the CFL... :hmm:

bentllama
12-14-2004, 06:53 PM
Most of EA's employees have stock options and shares in the company. Take a look at the stock price over the last few days (ERTS). Anyone with equity in EA will be happy with the NFL deal.
Actually, I am not happy about it even though I am an EA stockholder.

mummey
12-14-2004, 06:59 PM
Actually, I am not happy about it even though I am an EA stockholder.
I especially don't like how the NFL basically turned it into a bidding war for the rights. It will probably also mean the NFL will want more control over what the final product since its now the "official videogame of the NFL" :p

Tirjasdyn
12-14-2004, 07:03 PM
My husband (heavy football fan, his brother may go pro,) prefers the espn football games over the ea ones.

"For 20 bucks I get the football game I've always dreamed of"

His exact words.

spacemunky
12-14-2004, 08:25 PM
seriously..people who don't play sports or understand the appeal of playing with real players should stop posting on this thread. If you don't have the licenese the game will sell nothing. EA needs to be brought down, and unfortuntely for us this corporate takeover of everything we hold dear is far to well along for any of us to stop. This is the beginning of the end for games as we know it. Welcome to the corporate world of homoginized crap produced for nothing and sold to us brain dead americans at out local sh#t kicking, nascaring watching walmart. I'm moving to France

bleeper
12-14-2004, 09:06 PM
Not much to say, but damn that's a pretty impressive deal EA got.:eek:

laiels
12-14-2004, 09:15 PM
I agree that EA having a monopoly on the NFL games will hurt creativity and quality production of the games, but why is everyone getting on EA's case over it. THey did nothing wrong, illegal, or immoral here. THey made a business decision that they thought would be beneficial to their company.

SpeccySteve
12-14-2004, 09:16 PM
seriously..people who don't play sports or understand the appeal of playing with real players should stop posting on this thread
I understand the appeal of playing with "real players", however it's a lot less important to me than gameplay.

danydrunk
12-14-2004, 11:14 PM
I agree that EA having a monopoly on the NFL games will hurt creativity and quality production of the games, but why is everyone getting on EA's case over it. THey did nothing wrong, illegal, or immoral here. THey made a business decision that they thought would be beneficial to their company.

Well the problem is that ESPN NFL game will probably dissapear. It only proves that EA knows SEGA has a better product. And it is bad for sports games over all. The quality is affected.

DiNKArt
12-14-2004, 11:31 PM
I really don't see why everyone is hating on ea. It isn't like they forced the nfl to do this. The truth is this I believe madden is a great game and for the people hating on fifa it is a good game too. Not great but good. Did any of you guys forget about college? That market is still open. EA has changed they way sports games are done. You have to give them some respect.

I love games and I love football. I never really liked the attempts have realistic games before madden.

And EA are not making a bad name for themselves. Just among the workers they abuse. My roomate that is a video game fan had no idea of EA's recent pass.

bentllama
12-14-2004, 11:54 PM
There is a petition to reverse the exclusive licensing agreement that was made:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nfleacon/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/nfleacon/petition.html)


To: National Football League

To the National Football League and NFL Players Association:

We, the Undersigned, have recently become aware of your agreement with Electronic Arts to give full and complete rights to NFL Players, Teams, Stadiums, etc. to the EA Sports Madden NFL franchise. We feel that this is a travesty, and we wish you to reconsider your decision, as it will adversely affect the standing of the NFL with thousands of fans.

Many thousands of people play Sega's ESPN NFL 2K series, and those of us that do find the game to be a much better and more accurate representation of the NFL than EA's product has ever been. We are given the opprotunity thru ESPN NFL 2K5 to host completely free online leagues, with living rosters that allow for season affecting trades and injuries, etc. This is supported by an excellent team from Sega/Visual Concepts, and they have done an excellent job in promoting the NFL in the process. ESPN's game is stellar from graphics to gameplay, and was a great buy this year. Your agreement with EA will prevent Sega and Visual Concepts from continuing their series, and decimate their Sports division. People will lose jobs as a result of your carelessness. We do not believe this is what the NFL stands for.

Electronic Arts currently has a Class-Action Lawsuit filed against them for poor labor practices, working conditions and unpaid overtime. They have built a poor reputation in the gaming industry as well as the tech industry as being slavedrivers who will produce less than finished work while driving their employees and their families to the brink of their sanity and physical exhaustion. Please see the following link for information:

http://news.com.com/Electronic+Arts+faces+overtime+lawsuit/2100-1043_3-5450316.html

If the NFL goes forward with this no-competition stance and continues to side with EA Sports, we the Undersigned will boycott the NFL for the duration of the contract with EA Games, and will continue to do so until competition in the world of NFL Football Video Games is reborn. We love the NFL and none of us wish to take a hardline stance against the sport we love, but when we are disregarded as fans to support a company such as Electronic Arts, you leave us with little choice.

We sincelerely hope you reconsider your decision on this contract, as your decision will have a very visable affect on the profits of the National Football League in the foreseeable future.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?nfleacon)

KevinKraeer
12-15-2004, 01:06 AM
It's unfortunate that the last sentence of that reasonably well-written petition is a spelling nightmare.

heavyness
12-15-2004, 01:26 AM
i feel bad for the people over at Sega/Visual Concept, it was such a great game and they really took it to EA...

...and won. EA smelled it, they knew it, thats why they jumped on this deal with open arms.

but money talks.


hey Sega/Visual Concept, get the XFL licence, make up some "real" players that have profiles online. give each team their own webpages. make it seem like its real. screw NFL, make your own league. there would be less drama, drugs, and club fights. and i'm sure the ESPN Channel would help out and cover it.

SUB7NYC
12-15-2004, 01:48 AM
Liscensing doesn't make good games, Pro evolution by konami is a good example. Way better than FIFA

Mungo J
12-15-2004, 03:43 AM
dammit!

it's been years now (im only 19 mind...) that it's been obvious to me what a disgraceful company EA are - mainly just due to their quality/success ratio as a developer and publisher (and partly thanks to the mature, unbiased and un-industry-sponsored edge magazine), but they seem to me to be getting much worse through this year,

i mean they have been buying dev co's for ages, and i know it's how business is, but the cold strategy with which they bought Criterion leaves me despairing for the industry, as they now own renderware, which must be the biggest console middleware solution, and many studios without the in-house tech suitable for the current and next-gen platforms but with the creative and artistic talent to make great games rely on this trusted solution, combined with the recent labour lawsuits it seems to me by far and away EA's most immoral year yet,

so many developers (sega, konami, rockstar, ubisoft, atari) will now be presumably soliciting with EA to make their next games, giving EA a further stranglehold in the market (not needed when last christmas 6 of the top ten sellers were EA's), in the UK we have the competition commision to try to kerb any unhealthy monopolies in business marketplaces, but i don't know how these, such global issues are dealt with, if at all.

i personally am not a particular sports game (or sports) fan, so the NFL, FIFA etc. don't strike any special chord with me, so apologies if i'm in the wrong thread, but i just need to type this,

i wouldn't be quite so annoyed if it weren't for the recent EA presentation at the 3d festival the institute i'm currently studying at has. One of the art directors was supposed to come down, but we got the recruitment manager instead! and what a recruitment drive it was! uuurgh!

he showed us some quite mundane stuff from the creation of a harry potter game, then some cut-scenes from various games, and then the treat-of-all-treats - a promotional video they had made featuring - at first managers saying why EA was such a great company to work for, and how there are none of the usual manager-workfoce divides (hard to beleive with the current lawsuits) - and then staff whose eyes could clearly be seen following scripts off camera saying things like "working here is better than home" (literal quote as far as i can remember) and "EA is a great place to work with a really fun atmosphere"

seriously, i wish i'd taken a camcorder, throughout it i was trying to hide my laughter, but once it was over it really did enrage me - i annoyed many friends by going on about it for the following week. the presenter followed with talk of EA's planned recruitment of over (as far as i remember) 200 staff in the UK and speak of much more around europe, and that they are planning 75% of hiring to be graduates.

this was apparently to bring new ideas and a new generation to games which sounds lovely, but i can't help but think it's because graduates are cheap, can't be fussy about accepting work and many have not learn't enough to hate EA (yet...)

then was question time and again, i was actually laughing, as his upper management credentials shone through with his amazing politician-like answers, when asked about starting wage of graduate animators he instantly swung conversation to the free EA games earned by every employee (he obviously thought a shrewd move considering the audience - most whom were around and under 20 - the only targets who could possibly actually forget about the wage, when they're earning free games) and then talked over the guy asking the question when he was trying to repeat his question regarding what an animator could expect to earn (he had a mic, so could - and did just talk louder)

when talking about the aquisition of criterion he simply ignored the existence of renderware as part of the company and spoke only of burnout 3 and the brilliance "EA trax" brought to the license - surely 2nd fiddle in financial, strategic and game development importance to the company and industry - but again was playing to the audience whom he thought valued a game license over the future of the industry they are hoping to break into.

the recent labour lawsuits were mentioned, but to be honest i can't remember exactly how he replied, except that he didn't want to go into any specifics - after this i surmised he must have actually been watching politicians' question time footage as preparation for the event,

the worst bit though... the end when told that was all the time for questions, the clapping started - by far and away the heartiest applause all festival - escalated and when it died down the excited chatter of "i wanna work for them..." etc. started, while i was just unable to understand how they had been so simply suckered.

well, i can tell you one thing, if i do make it into the games industry, it's going to be to work for developers who want to make good games to make good profits. not EA.

gaaah, just realised i've written quite a bit now, sorry to bore anyone - it just really, really got to me...

Nightez
12-15-2004, 04:58 AM
EA never liked the ESPN series from the get go.
Sega developed the series when EA being the dominant force that is refused to support the Dreamcast.
Now they trying to get back at them by crushing what had now become a superior product.

danydrunk
12-15-2004, 07:17 PM
lets all sign the petition for the NFL it might not change anything but at least we are going to show how many people dont want this contract.

kursad_pileksuz
12-15-2004, 07:36 PM
i advise you to read about oil monopoly of last century in united states of america. then you will understand why companies like ea or standart oil will never end, they will get better and bigger at their practices

try reading some real articles, computer game magazines will take you nowhere

Henry C K Liu
PART 1: Ruthless empire builders
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/FL15Dj01.html

in the end as someone stated, they did nothing wrong, it was legal it was beneficiary to their business pratice and investors

FlyByNight
12-15-2004, 07:58 PM
Nooooooooo!!! :eek:

Mungo J
12-15-2004, 09:24 PM
quote: in the end as someone stated, they did nothing wrong, it was legal it was beneficiary to their business pratice and investors

hmmmm...

beneficiary to business practice and investors? what apart from a fat wad from EA do the NFL gain from this exclusivity?

legal? that's debateable, there are laws passed (in the UK at least, but surely there are similar things in U.S.) about whether corporations' actions are benefitial to public interest (think of the microsoft explorer vs. netscape case - which unfortunately went to the richer side) and governments potentially have the power not to allow huge business deals to happen if it would result in marketplace domination (a monopoly - which isn't in the public interest).

i don't follow sports games too well so i couldn't comment on EA's share in the sports game market - but if it's a huge proportion then there should be a government regulatory body prepared to do an inquiry

just did a google search for "US gov competition" and the Federal Trade Commission has an antitrust arm, the Bureau of Competition, which "seeks to prevent business practices that restrain competition."

if peeps go here (http://www.ftc.gov/index.html) and go to file a complaint, like i am about to, then maybe, just maybe we can do something about this....

Mungo J
12-15-2004, 09:34 PM
hmm...

turns out you need to be an american to fill in the form, but i guess you guys sticking up for the ESPN games are!

go! please! now! RUUUUUN!

the more power we can remove from EA the better as far as im concerned.

people power, let's kick some ass...

kursad_pileksuz
12-15-2004, 09:47 PM
well i am on your side, i was stating the irony. For sure corporate power is hardly on public interest, look at mtv, what good they do except turning youth into mindless zombies.They wont be on the side of public as long as they make no money out of something

as long as people, consumers act like they are sheep and drugged consumers, there will be money, game, gold, information, weapon, software, hamburger, food etc trusts and monopolies, that is why i advise followers of this topic to read about oil monopoly in starting of last century



QUOTE=Mungo J]quote: in the end as someone stated, they did nothing wrong, it was legal it was beneficiary to their business pratice and investors

hmmmm...

beneficiary to business practice and investors? what apart from a fat wad from EA do the NFL gain from this exclusivity?

legal? that's debateable, there are laws passed (in the UK at least, but surely there are similar things in U.S.) about whether corporations' actions are benefitial to public interest (think of the microsoft explorer vs. netscape case - which unfortunately went to the richer side) and governments potentially have the power not to allow huge business deals to happen if it would result in marketplace domination (a monopoly - which isn't in the public interest).

i don't follow sports games too well so i couldn't comment on EA's share in the sports game market - but if it's a huge proportion then there should be a government regulatory body prepared to do an inquiry

just did a google search for "US gov competition" and the Federal Trade Commission has an antitrust arm, the Bureau of Competition, which "seeks to prevent business practices that restrain competition."

if peeps go here (http://www.ftc.gov/index.html) and go to file a complaint, like i am about to, then maybe, just maybe we can do something about this....[/QUOTE]

Mungo J
12-15-2004, 10:26 PM
right on brother,

the oil co. stuff is disgustingly fascinating, did you read about the disgraceful Coca-Cola murders in Colombia, stealing of India's water and the insecticide and pesticide in coke sold in developing countries just because they don't have as good regulations as developed nations?

i do wanna hear that people complain to the FTC though, just wish i could...

Mungo J
12-16-2004, 06:12 AM
i don't get it,

4 pages of people complaining about this disgusting exclusivity deal, with a game boycott in there too, (which is a start, but to be honest won't change anything as most of the game-buying public don't even notice the developer and publisher of a game) and when a link to report to the government body which is in place to stop this exact situation if they are just told about it is posted no-one uses it?

come on guys, use your precious american citizenship...

peanuckle
12-16-2004, 06:20 AM
Oh well I always like the college football games better...

Andyman
12-16-2004, 06:50 AM
Just a question. What happens to all the 'real world' NFL games that are in development right now for next year? Do the companies just have to throw them out because they're not allowed to publish them anymore by reason of the NFL/EA deal?

I didn't read when the deal becomes effective, so maybe this is just a dumb question.

danydrunk
12-16-2004, 07:36 AM
Lets make a damn anti EA campaign. Lets make art against EA, Lets write letters against EA, Lets sign the petition against EA

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?nfleacon&1

Lets make flash cartoons against EA
Lets try to spread the word.

WE DONT WANT THIS COMPANY !@#

bentllama
12-16-2004, 07:45 AM
danydrunk, as much as you may not like the efforts of EA...there is a certain level of tact that must remain...

Bonsai
12-16-2004, 09:22 AM
Even though it has nothing to do with the EA/NFL deal i thought this might fit here.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5956

See, EA does not always get what they want. This kinda reminds me of the Asterix
Comic books ...

noisewar
12-16-2004, 10:00 AM
While EA is bad in many respects, you have to appreciate what they've done to bring games into mainstream acceptibility. Think of all the parents who are going to let their kids dream of a game job now. If their abuse of employees is unacceptable, EA and the rest of the industry is only partly at fault. Where is the authority who's job it is to protect our interests? With such faulty overtime laws, I don't blame them for what they do. Focus on where the problem REALLY lies. And get it legislated and regulated.

So danydrunk, relax and don't jerk your knees. Don't scapegoat the easy target, cuz if you blew EA off the planet this instant, there will STILL be abused employees everywhere, don't kid yourself.

Mungo J
12-16-2004, 12:30 PM
(quote: noisewar)cuz if you blew EA off the planet this instant, there will STILL be abused employees everywhere, don't kid yourself.

have you read about the case? search for EA spouse if you haven't, but the point is EA are not any old company whose hours get quite long come crunch time, they demand 85 hour weeks, give no consideration to personal issues etc.

you can't say not to take any action just because there'll still be workers abused somewhere, if we all thought like that there would still be slaves in western society, i know it's not much, but it's a start

also, personally i would be happy if EA were not wiped out of existence, but just an appropriate sized company in relation to their competition, as all their mainstream games are neccesary for the industry as it stands

overtime laws are there, but we all want to get in the industry so much that people end up signing contracts that practically sign their life away, and EA are just proving they can't handle that responsibility

noisewar
12-16-2004, 01:21 PM
(quote: noisewar)cuz if you blew EA off the planet this instant, there will STILL be abused employees everywhere, don't kid yourself.

have you read about the case? search for EA spouse if you haven't, but the point is EA are not any old company whose hours get quite long come crunch time, they demand 85 hour weeks, give no consideration to personal issues etc.

you can't say not to take any action just because there'll still be workers abused somewhere, if we all thought like that there would still be slaves in western society, i know it's not much, but it's a start

also, personally i would be happy if EA were not wiped out of existence, but just an appropriate sized company in relation to their competition, as all their mainstream games are neccesary for the industry as it stands

overtime laws are there, but we all want to get in the industry so much that people end up signing contracts that practically sign their life away, and EA are just proving they can't handle that responsibility


I've read EA spouse and every bit of blog or letter or note or journal remotely related. My conclusions is not to sit on our asses and let EA get away with this, but to look at why they can get away with it. It's an industry-wide epidemic, and quarantining the afflicted doesn't clean up dirty waters. EA does it partly because it's legal to do it. Therein lies a big problem. It's a difficult problem, more complex than just saying patch up overtime laws and sue EA. You have folks bilking undeserved overtime, and folks who deserve overtime, and making the system work for both isn't easy.

Also, it's easy to get emotional over EA spouse, but not all of EA is like that, nor is all of the workers there against overwork... in fact they thrive on the kind of environment of meritocracy by hours spent. The Maxis team were apparently very maltreated, but them being vocal about it doesn't represent everyone. EA is the symptom, not the source of the problem. Where I used to work, people where easily pulling 90-110 hours a week for months. If EA goes down, will this company say "hey it's a shame they got sued, heck let's reform guys" ? There are folks who can and want to work those hours. There are folks who don't and have the notion that quitting is not an option. The duty of the law is to make sure both those types of people know and get what they deserve, and can see their options.

But when you've worked years for EA and say you can't leave, I tend to disbelieve that... disregarding the talent and experience you've built up there, you'll be paid more in unemployment checks than many americans make at all. If folks at EA don't like the treatment, then leave, tell a congressman why, and find something on your own terms. I'll be damned if you're lucky enough to find someplace else in the industry even a quarter EA's size that doesn't demand similar conditions. There are plenty of freelancers (like me) who make so-so bucks in comfort and don't mind missing out on the prestige of working on the next Tiger Woods rerun. If I had half the talent of the people complaining at EA, I'd be gone and my lawyers giving me backrubs as we concoct our next move.

Bpanting
12-16-2004, 01:34 PM
I have not bought an EA game in a while and even though it wont matter much to them I probably will not buy one ever now because of this, but here is some good news I just saw. I hope they can hold off and not be bought up by EA.

DICE May Roll Out Of EA's Reach? (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=4700)

I agree with them that they can probably stand on their own.

w0lf
12-16-2004, 03:34 PM
Good thing i am not into sports games. Else I would've been complaining with you guys ! But you people are right, No single company should be allowed to monopolise anything. Lemme know when you people plan to boycott, i'll be there with bells on !:thumbsup:


Peace:buttrock:

danydrunk
12-16-2004, 06:08 PM
danydrunk, as much as you may not like the efforts of EA...there is a certain level of tact that must remain...

I understand if you being a mod ban me from this forum....but I will stick to what I believe. Im a current game art students, I have been gaming for 15 years. In this time, I have never been so upset of the gaming industry. Hype over quality, Microsoft buying everything they can. Lossing huge amounts of money to enter the market. Sony trying to rule the world. Nintendo not producing a lot of quality games. EA monopolizing the games industry.

Its like they have al forgotten about the games, The only thing they worry now is money.
There was a time before sony, that I could say I was a gamer. People looked at me and they would say something like do you like those things? Now everyone is a "gamer" the mainstream people came and destroyed what I loved abot gaming. The hardcore gamers dont matter anymore, we created the industry playing when no one else wanted to play, but now we are no longer a priority. Games are mainstream now. Originality is scarce.

Ryan-B
12-16-2004, 06:36 PM
This thread helped me add people to my ignore list. :thumbsup:

KevinKraeer
12-16-2004, 06:37 PM
The Maxis team were apparently very maltreated, but them being vocal about it doesn't represent everyone. EA is the symptom, not the source of the problem. Where I used to work, people where easily pulling 90-110 hours a week for months. If EA goes down, will this company say "hey it's a shame they got sued, heck let's reform guys" ? There are folks who can and want to work those hours. There are folks who don't and have the notion that quitting is not an option. The duty of the law is to make sure both those types of people know and get what they deserve, and can see their options.
Well stated.

It's interesting, I'm actually talking fairly regularly with friends who work both with another major game publisher and one who is working with a major game developer. I've asked them if they've heard about what has become known - to people on the outside - as The Great EA Scandal. They said yes, they've heard about it. There was a buzz for a while. But their overall end-reaction has been "Meh."

It's deplorable how those people were treated... but I tend to disagree instinctively with statements that universally condemn any one person, thing, or organization. It is simply impossible to make definitive statements one way or the other without having a vast array of points-of-view for comparison...and in this particular case we seem to have just the negative ones.

As far as the EA-NFL deal, it appears that it's all done. The best we can do is wait and see what they produce before tearing them a new one...it's clear that other franchises take a major hit because of all of this, and that stinks.

But as The Godfather has taught us, it's just business.

Boone
12-17-2004, 09:12 PM
I really don't get it - some football games gain immediete praise if it has a player called "David Beckem" in it. :rolleyes:

Get a life guys, and play SpeedBall2! Endorsment means shit next to the power of the force( ie - GAME-PLAY ). :wise:

bentllama
12-17-2004, 09:42 PM
danydrunk -

1.) no one said anything about a ban. you are very free to speak your opinion, and free to recieve contrasting opinions as counterpoints

2.) students see the industry from one perspective. it takes years of being in the trenches to garner a first hand look at the inner workings of game insustry tyranny and kindness. students often have grandoise schemes of how morals come first. students blindly believe it is always about the art...to some point it is, and you should definately have passion...but, with inexperience, it is too easy to fall into the trap if being distasteful when voicing your opinions...I am just saying be careful and respectful of your peers, even if you do not agree with them...

Boone
12-17-2004, 10:36 PM
Re: DanyDrunk.

How old are you? I don't mean this in a funny way, just curious... :)

Yeah, sure - EA do appear to be assholes, but they are not the entire games scene. I've been playing games since the ZX 48k, and I really don't see them in a "threating" manor. EA is simply a publisher that has many studios under its banner...good luck to them. In such a cut-throat business - they'll need it! :twisted:

The real "game scene" is beyond the little tiny-bobbers that think FIFA is "well-wicked!", think more along the lines of R-Type, Elite, Doom, Sim-City2000, Monkey Island...you get the idea. If EA cannot produce anything worth shouting about( I certainly haven't seen anything good in while ) - they will simply be only a name.

laiels
12-20-2004, 01:33 AM
Its like they have al forgotten about the games, The only thing they worry now is money.
There was a time before sony, that I could say I was a gamer. People looked at me and they would say something like do you like those things? Now everyone is a "gamer" the mainstream people came and destroyed what I loved abot gaming. The hardcore gamers dont matter anymore, we created the industry playing when no one else wanted to play, but now we are no longer a priority. Games are mainstream now. Originality is scarce. Danydrunk, I hate to break it to you, but for the most part, it's never about the games, and it really isn't about the customer either. They could care less about their customers. And dont' kid yourself into thinking they ever did. All they really care about is their customer's spending money to buy their games. . People don't get together, build big corporations, log in 60-80 hours/week for years upon years to make complete strangers happy. They do it to make money.....and truth be told, there really isn't anything wrong with that.

mackster
12-20-2004, 07:55 AM
Some EA games definitely rocks - however, they need some good competition, and EA are getting way too large and we all know what happened when M$ got too large. :(

t-man152
12-20-2004, 09:02 AM
I would love to see what happened to the NHL happen to the NFL for the next five years

the NHL (National hockey league) was canceled this year because the players were being payed too much and the owners were not making enough money

after shelling out all that money the NFL being cancled would be so awesome EA would get what they deserve.

wouldnt this NFL deal be considered a Monopoly? and arnt monopoly's illegal?

Bonsai
12-20-2004, 12:30 PM
EA is about to buy 20 percent of French Publisher Ubi Soft. Read more:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=6016

StickFigure
12-22-2004, 04:56 AM
Sounds like the NBA has some sense.

http://sports.ign.com/articles/574/574539p1.html

FloydBishop
12-22-2004, 05:54 AM
Everything is cyclical, and the game industry is no exception. Sometime soon, maybe sooner than people realize, there will be another ET.

http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/thecrash.htm

Q_B
12-22-2004, 10:50 AM
U know, reading Bone's post, i started thinking back to the good'ol days of the ZX Spectrum... anyways, i started thinking about other things that, due to massification and "align-by-the cheapest-and-lowest" standardization, have really degraded alot, at least to me. Take TV for instance... at least here in Portugal... we had some good Sci-Fi series, we had interesting story-full cartoons, we had nice prime-time series... nowadays we have cable, ok, that diversifies the offer, but where are the good old Galatica, Space 1999, Buck Rogers, V, etc etc... all we seem to be getting nowadays is Big Brothers, lowsy talk-shows, etc etc... the appeal to satisfy the masses unfortunately almost always ends up in downgrading... i fear we may be about to face the same thing with games.

Then again, i maibe completely off... oh well...

AaronATL
12-22-2004, 04:55 PM
i would say i'm going to start boycotting EA, but I seriously never bought there stuff anyway- i'm looking at my 40+ games and the only EA game is a copy madden 04 that my girlfriend bought me, and that meant that i didn't play football until 05 when espn came out. i hope the kind folks over at ESPN are getting a lawsuit together, or at least working on a alternate NFL game. kinda like NCAA football, except instead of just not showing names, they would also rename the teams with similar mascots, Falcons=Falkins 49rs=NFL jokes. This could work, and I'm no copyright genius, but i'm pretty sure that you only have to change like 10-20% of a word to void it's copyright.

Good Luck ESPN!!!

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