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View Full Version : 3ds max 7 With Brazil Special Bundle!


Nando
12-13-2004, 10:01 PM
Heard about this deal today, and thought it might interest some folks in North America only.
;)


Take advantage of these two great bundle offers from Discreet.

3ds max 7 and Brazil from Splutterfish
Only US$3,995 — a US$700 savings!

"The second unit created 'digimattes' using
3ds max and Brazil. It was great fun, ... liberating."

Rick Sayre
Supervising Technical Director for The Incredibles, Pixar Designed for use in Film, Broadcast, and Visualization, Brazil r/s' versatile toolkit integrates easily into existing production environments and empowers the artists to predictably and reliably create any look.
3ds max and Brazil together bring about such feature film quality modeling, animation and rendering that even Pixar has used the two
together on The Incredibles (http://i.nl03.net/ltr0/?_m=1n.00ci.2.cz05q002at.a).

Visit a Discreet Reseller (http://i.nl03.net/ltr0/?_m=1n.00ci.2.cz05q002at.5) for more information or to purchase today.
Bundle offer ends January 31, 2005.





3ds max 7 and Right Hemisphere
Deep Exploration™, Deep Paint 3D®, and Deep UVTM
Only US$3,995 — a US$295 savings!

Deep Exploration, Deep Paint 3D, and Deep UV provide artists with easy navigation tools to view 2D graphics and 3D models along with an intuitive and superior set of tools for painting and texturing 3D models interactively within 3ds max software and for creating and modifying UV mapping for polygonal models within an interactive 2D and 3D environment.

Visit a Discreet Reseller (http://i.nl03.net/ltr0/?_m=1n.00ci.2.cz05q002at.6) or the Discreet online store (http://i.nl03.net/ltr0/?_m=1n.00ci.2.cz05q002at.7) for more information or to purchase today.
Bundle offer ends January 31, 2005.

http://i.nl00.net/discreet/Images/cleardot.gifDiscreet is a division of Autodesk, Inc. Autodesk, Discreet and 3ds max are registered trademarks of Autodesk Inc/Autodesk Canada Co., in the USA and/or other countries. All other brand names, product names, or trademarks belong to their respective holders. ©2004 Autodesk, Inc. All rights reserved.

Thank you for your continued interest in Discreet products. Discreet respects your time and privacy. If you would prefer not to receive future e-mails about our products or events, or have received this e-mail in error, please click here (http://i.nl00.net/discreet.maxl/?lc=maxl&m=1n.00ci.2.cz05q002at.4).

Discreet, a division of Autodesk, Inc.
10 rue Duke, Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3C 2L7

Hazdaz
12-13-2004, 11:36 PM
That doesn't make any sense to me. I mean its not a bad deal at all, but WHY? Why would Discreet be trying to sell another 3rd-party renderer when it just integrated MR into MAX just last release. Not that Brazil is bad (from what I have heard its VERY good), but from a business stand-point I find it bazaar that Discreet would do something like that.

Refracted
12-14-2004, 12:45 AM
woohoo... cool... i might actually be able to convince my boss to buy this now.. he cant pass up a sale :)

Larrikin
12-14-2004, 03:31 AM
..Why would Discreet be trying to sell another 3rd-party renderer when it just integrated MR into MAX just last release....

This was probably a Splutterfish initiative. They're fighting for their piece of the renderer's market. Discreet would like it because it's all good for their sales.

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 08:56 AM
Just for your information, this news is false! Discreet would never bundle or offer an initiative with Splutterfish.

Brazil R/S is NOT a Discreet Certified Product, so this news is for sure not correct. Also Discreet would never promote or support any non certiified products in such a way.

It takes some things to be certified by Discreet, one big thing is a high standard and quality in software engineering and technology. Only plug-ins with outstanding quality and control of engineering are chosen by Discreet and for sure Brazil is not one of them! Take it like you want, Discreet is trying to get the plug-in quality as high as their own products.

So before you spread such false information you should better whatch out who is giving you such information. I would like to know what was the source of it and if you are related in any way to Splutterfish. This looks like a cheap trick to participate on the success of Discreet Certified Plug-Ins.

Any 3ds max 7 user may check out the DCP plug-ins as they are bundled with the 3ds max 7 package. Also each 3ds max 7 box comes with a $100 Voucher to buy really certified pllug-ins.

If you have questiions about this issue check out www.turbosquid.com (http://www.turbosquid.com) or the Discreet webpage.

regards

edwin

Rivendale
12-14-2004, 09:15 AM
Just for your information, this news is false! Discreet would never bundle or offer an initiative with Splutterfish.

Brazil R/S is NOT a Discreet Certified Product, so this news is for sure not correct. Also Discreet would never promote or support any non certiified products in such a way.

It takes some things to be certified by Discreet, one big thing is a high standard and quality in software engineering and technology. Only plug-ins with outstanding quality and control of engineering are chosen by Discreet and for sure Brazil is not one of them! Take it like you want, Discreet is trying to get the plug-in quality as high as their own products.

So before you spread such false information you should better whatch out who is giving you such information. I would like to know what was the source of it and if you are related in any way to Splutterfish. This looks like a cheap trick to participate on the success of Discreet Certified Plug-Ins.

Any 3ds max 7 user may check out the DCP plug-ins as they are bundled with the 3ds max 7 package. Also each 3ds max 7 box comes with a $100 Voucher to buy really certified pllug-ins.

If you have questiions about this issue check out www.turbosquid.com (http://www.turbosquid.com/) or the Discreet webpage.

regards

edwinHahaha, that was funny. Looks like Cebas likes to talk trash about it's competitors.:rolleyes: Since when is Brazil not a high quality renderer?

CML

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 09:28 AM
Hahaha, that was funny. Looks like Cebas likes to talk trash about it's competitors.:rolleyes: Since when is Brazil not a high quality renderer?

CMLDid I say that? Not really and in fact I do not care if Brazil is good or bad... Discreet is chosing which plug-ins are certified to meet their quality needs. You may interpret this in any way you want. But still the fact is that Brazil is not a DCP product and Discreet is not going to support or promote them in any way they would with a DCP products.

BTW. I was talking about the enginering quality which is also an important part in software development. Discreet outlines exact rules how you must develop and support your product to be certified anything else would be nonsense. And we as a Discreet certified developer have to fullfill this methods and mechanisms. This is part of the game and if Splutterfish is not able to or willing to - it is their choice. But the news is still false, regardless of what I may think or not :)

RELAX!

edwin

DanSilverman
12-14-2004, 09:30 AM
Take it like you want, Discreet is trying to get the plug-in quality as high as their own products.
Yeah. Now that is a good one. Really. Almost made me laugh. So, are you stating that plugins for MAX must crash from time to time for no apparent reason? ... that they should have legacy bugs in their code that could be fixed but just are not for some unknown reason? ... or (insert your other "quality" Discreet gripe here) ...

Now, you may think that I am anti-Discreet. I am not. I own and use MAX daily and I like the program a lot. It is just that the above quoted statement really is funny when you think about it.

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 09:40 AM
It is an out of this world idea that software has no bugs or will not crash! I guess we agree on this.
There is also nothing funny about if Discreet claims to have a certain level of quality for their products. In fact Discreet is very well known to deliver good quality products. 3ds max is the best selling product on the market, and this is also a measure of quality.

The same is true for DCP plug-ins. Discreet wanted to give the users the same quality level and feel about certified plug-ins. This is also the case, sure it is all not perfect but it is getting better with every release. DCP plug-ins are compatible with the latest 3ds max release right form the start! In fact DCP plug-ins ship with the 3ds max box right away.

DCP plug-ins sold through Turbosquid are the best selling plug-ins and widely used ones on 3ds max. So it is also clear that through this amount of users the quality of the plug-ins will constantly getting better as more people are using it every day.

Speaking form our experience, the feedback we got has increased a lot thanks to Discreet and their quality measures. Especially the interaction between different plug-ins can only be seen and tested if you reach a certain amount of users.

Yes, quality is important and I say there is nothign wrong or funny about it. And Getting better with every release is also good.

edwin

AlexScollay
12-14-2004, 10:13 AM
If true, it sounds like a good deal. I have always felt Discreet should have bundled Max with Brazil instead if Mentalray. I've used Brazil and Vray in production since the first public betas were available and I have been nothing but impressed. Brazil is a lot faster than Mentalray in every case I've seen, in come cases by an order of magitude. Brazil is also much more tightly integrated in Max.

As far as I know every 3rd party shader, effect, whatever works in Brazil whereas only specifically coded shaders and effects work with MR. I imagine it works on a similar fashion to PRMAN where for say, the Max noise shader to work, you have to have an equivalent noise shader written for PRMAN that is called at render time. 3rd party plugins like Blur's Supernoise (which I can't live without) has no corresponding translator and won't render. Mentalray is fine if you just want to use the standard shaders that come out of the box with Max, but if you want to extend your pallette you are going to run into walls with MR pretty quickly.

Hazdaz
12-14-2004, 10:16 AM
I am not going to get into a pissing contest as to which renderer is "better" cuz that is a very subjective opinion, and I also don't believe that they would do such a bundled deal, BUT the whole "certification" program reminds me a little too much like when an advertiser (for instance Nike shoes) is picked to be the "official shoe of the NFL". They are the "official" shoe of the NFL cuz they paid the NFL a ton of money to have that right, not because their product is any better than anyone else's. Now I am not saying that these rendering companies are paying Discreet, but to say that plug-ins that are "certified" must have a certain level of "quality" and stuff like that is fairly laughable. I think its pure marketting that both Discreet and the Plug-in manufacturer can use to sell their product, but I don't expect a "certified" fur plug-in or renderer or whatever to be a better than a non-certified one.

AlexScollay
12-14-2004, 10:29 AM
It's an option, dude. They're not forcing anyone to buy the Max+Brazil bundle, and you can still buy Max on it's own. You say you find it bizarre that Discreet would give it's customers more choices of renderer? I have no figures to quote but just from my own experience and knowledge of the industry I am willing to bet money that there are significantly more Max seats out there that use Brazil over MR. Why not give people the option of getting both in one purchase?

And now you seem to be veering off into an argument about companies "paying" for certification, which is just flat out wrong.

DanSilverman
12-14-2004, 10:44 AM
Yes, quality is important and I say there is nothign wrong or funny about it. And Getting better with every release is also good.
MAX is a great program (seriously) and it is indeed getting better with each release. And no one ever mentioned that they expected bug-free software. If you noticed what I posted, I mentioned "legacy bugs". This refers to bugs that have been around since previous versions (and some go a ways back) that are still stuck in the code. While no one should expect bug-free applications, we would hope that old bugs would get squished at some point along the way ;) .

Quote from klytus' response to hazdaz:

And now you seem to be veering off into an argument about companies "paying" for certification, which is just flat out wrong.
This reminds me a lot of the other "popular" argument we find on this board: gaming video cards vs. workstation video cards. If one pays attention to some of the arguments made in those threads then there is something to learn from there as well.

For example, there was one user that stressed the importance of a workstation card over a gaming card because the workstation card is "certified". The reasoning is (among other things) that if the card is certified if must indeed be a better card than the "gaming" card. The facts are that the specs for some of these "gaming" cards are equal to (and, in some cases, superior to) the workstation class cards (compare Nvidia Quadro FX 4000 to GeForce 6800 Ultra, for an example). The only real difference between the cards is the driver and BIOS.

Now, why do I bring this up? Because having a plugin certified by Discreet is a big deal. It will say something to some people. Some will assume that the plugin is "superior" in some manner simply because Discreet certified it. This may or may not be the case at all. Whatever is the truth behind the quality of the plugin, certification equals sales for the plugin developer. The facts are, this is business and there are partnerships and all sorts of things going on in front of our faces and behind the scenes. I rather doubt it is all as clear as "this product is coded better" or "that one is not".

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 10:59 AM
....Now I am not saying that these rendering companies are paying Discreet, but to say that plug-ins that are "certified" must have a certain level of "quality" and stuff like that is fairly laughable. I think its pure marketting that both Discreet and the Plug-in manufacturer can use to sell their product, but I don't expect a "certified" fur plug-in or renderer or whatever to be a better than a non-certified one.
You are wrong there! There is a official procedure and very strcit rules about it. This is described on the Turbosquid webpage and also discreet describes this process. And for sure this process is about quality of development.

You are right when you say that non certified plug-ins can also have a good or ven better quality. pyrocluster® is also no DCP product and we stil lsell it and think it is way better than the others :)

But to come back to the point, this NEWS ARE NOT CORRECT in this form. Discreet would never bundle or support Splutterfish in such a away as suggested by this false news.

edwin

AlexScollay
12-14-2004, 11:05 AM
I am not going to get into a pissing contest as to which renderer is "better" cuz that is a very subjective opinion To some degree it is subjective, but when you're chosing a renderer you are weighing up various factors which can be judged against each other in a very objective manner. Factors like a renderer's ability to handle large data-sets, it's efficiency of memory and CPU usage, render times, cost per seat etc are all things that can be graphed and compared against. You have to weigh up what kind of work you're doing, look at the factors involved and pick the renderer that best performs for the particular task at hand. Everywhere I've ever worked has used multiple renderers and mix and match as the jobs require it.

As for the final look of the images, I've found that in most cases it's nearly impossible to tell what renderer did what just by looking at the image. I've done production shots where I've mixed Renderman, Max scanline and Vray elements in one comp and it's been seamless. I personally own Vray, Brazil, Finalrender, the default scanline renderer (of course) and Mentalray, and I'll use whatever one gets the right effect I need on the one shot. I'm doing something right now where I'm using Vray for sets because pre-rolling irmaps on every nth frame saves buku rendering time, Brazil for skinshading because Vray still doesn't have a fast SSS shader, scanline for depth passes and some mattes yada yada. I never use MR, and though I have yet to use it on a job I am looking to forward to playing with Final Render as it looks pretty interesting and seems to be as fast as anything else I'm using.

nimajneb
12-14-2004, 11:07 AM
Did I say that? Not really and in fact I do not care if Brazil is good or bad... Discreet is chosing which plug-ins are certified to meet their quality needs. You may interpret this in any way you want. But still the fact is that Brazil is not a DCP product and Discreet is not going to support or promote them in any way they would with a DCP products.

BTW. I was talking about the enginering quality which is also an important part in software development. Discreet outlines exact rules how you must develop and support your product to be certified anything else would be nonsense. And we as a Discreet certified developer have to fullfill this methods and mechanisms. This is part of the game and if Splutterfish is not able to or willing to - it is their choice. But the news is still false, regardless of what I may think or not :)

RELAX!

edwin


Edwin,

I don't know whether Discreet is promoting this bundle or not. However, as a competitor to Splutterfish, I find your posts on this thread somewhat distasteful. Let the market decide the tools usage, and focus on development of fR. Your implications about the quality of non DCP software are transparent attacks. If your tool sells itself through the quality of the work being done wiith it, then you don't have to make these type of comments.

You Relax.

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 11:07 AM
....
Now, why do I bring this up? Because having a plugin certified by Discreet is a big deal. It will say something to some people. Some will assume that the plugin is "superior" in some manner simply because Discreet certified it. This may or may not be the case at all. Whatever is the truth behind the quality of the plugin, certification equals sales for the plugin developer. The facts are, this is business and there are partnerships and all sorts of things going on in front of our faces and behind the scenes. I rather doubt it is all as clear as "this product is coded better" or "that one is not".
Exactly! Because not everyone can just sit down and write a certified plug-in, makes this program so special and meaningful to users. It is in fact a statement of quality. If you as a user need to have this or want it - is up to you. But in the "faked" news above, Splutterfish or a person supporting them by spreading this false news is exactly using the Discreet brand to attach their "low profile" product to the brand of Discreet. Don't misunderstand me! Low profile means here a product that is not so well known as the brand you like to be connected with.
This kind of marketing or promotion is not ok as you can imagine.

I still would like to know where this news comes from and if the wording is correct or if this is just a trick to get some good press if their own product is not performing well. This might all be a big misunderstanding and the news is completley false...then we need to know this, too.

edwin

AlexScollay
12-14-2004, 11:11 AM
You are right when you say that non certified plug-ins can also have a good or ven better quality. pyrocluster® is also no DCP product and we stil lsell it and think it is way better than the others :)
edwin I haven't used Pryrocluster for a long while but I really liked it, I preferred it over Afterburner for some things. I've got the latest release of AB, I should get the latest version of Pyrocluster as well and do a bake-off :-)

Oh, I don't own a copy at home, but Thinking Particles rocked.

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 11:16 AM
Edwin,
I don't know whether Discreet is promoting this bundle or not. However, as a competitor to Splutterfish, I find your posts on this thread somewhat distasteful. Let the market decide the tools usage, and focus on development of fR. Your implications about the quality of non DCP software are transparent attacks. If your tool sells itself through the quality of the work being done wiith it, then you don't have to make these type of comments.
You Relax.
I'm sorry, if you misunderstood my post. I'm trying to make sure that this DCP program that came from Discreet is not getting "mixed in" or gets just treated like it is a joke. It is not a joke and we developers (not only cebas) are doing a lot to be part of this program. Such false impressions spread by this "news" are not ok as they damage the whole idea of DCP. As you might know Splutterfish has stated in public that they feel this DCP program is a joke and worth nothing and they are not willing to join. It is their choice and they are free to do so, but using the Discreet brand on the other hand is somehow "strange" don't you think?

And to make it CLEAR I'm not saying anything about the quality of Brazil itself! I'm talking about the DCP program and the quality of engineering methods or "how software is developed" nothing else. Don't make this a renderer war.

edwin

halo
12-14-2004, 11:30 AM
As a strategic partner with Discreet, SplutterFish is committed to ensuring that Brazil r/s meets the demanding standards of quality and compatibility for this latest version of 3ds max that the renderer is already known for, said Scott Kirvan, CEO of SplutterFish.

http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/sf_gen_page.php3?page=press/Brazil_for_3dsmax6

Splutterfish has announced a special offer that lasts for the month of October for those who want to buy/upgrade to Max 7 or Autodesk VIZ. Savings can be up to $700 off the combined retail price. Read on for the whole press release.

SEATTLE--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 19, 2004-- The SplutterFish Reseller Network is offering special savings to customers who purchase a full commercial or upgrade license for discreet's 3ds max 7 or Autodesk VIZ together with SplutterFish's Brazil Rendering System.

These special offers include:

3ds max 7 and Brazil r/s : This bundle includes a full commercial license for 3ds max 7, and a Brazil r/s Artist Bundle containing one workstation and two render node licenses.


http://maxunderground.com/archives/002687_special_offer_of_the_brazil_rendering_system_when_moving_to_3ds_max_7viz.html

halo
12-14-2004, 11:34 AM
seems like promo partnerships aren't out of the equation between discreet and non DCP products.

As for Max being known for its stability and coding quality (and final render for that matter), i think you may be a little isolated on that one. One Max's strengths maybe its popularity, but not many, up till the latest release, would say the quality of their application would be their strong point. And popularity is NEVER a reflected entirely in quality...

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Thanks Halo for posting the correct wording of this news..

So, like it is written there it makes more sense and reflects the true relationship between Discreet and Splutterfish. As they write "they" are offering something that has nothing to do wit hany kind of Discreet Promo or offer. Now the interesting question remains why was the wording changed to create the impression that Discreet supports this offer in any way while it is not true?

And this kind of message is more a wishful thinking than any PROMO partnership of any kind. Anyone can wish to be a "strategic partner". Even a shareware programmer may state this kind of message. It has nothing to do with Discreet supporting or promoting someone or even with the Discreet Certified Program which is a whole different world of partnership for plug-in developers.

edwin

kid tripod
12-14-2004, 12:27 PM
using the Discreet brand to attach their "low profile" product to the brand of Discreet. Don't misunderstand me! Low profile means here a product that is not so well known as the brand you like to be connected with.
Come on! There can't be any serious 3DS MAX user that hasn't heard of Brazil.

Your rantings really come off as deeply unprofessional.

halo
12-14-2004, 12:32 PM
btw, the stuff i found may not even be current...dunno.

sure would help to see the original link...perhaps this is one of those offers that comes via email?

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 12:33 PM
Maybe my wording is so bad....or you are not following the things i want to say :)

I meant the brand Discreet compared to anothoer one. And for sure you do not want to say that Splutterfish is equal to the brand of Discreet and now we are talking about brands. It would not make snese to mention constantly the name Discreet if your own brand is so well known and good. In the first news text posted here the brand Discreet was used in a non allowed way. Usually companies care about their name and with whom they are connected with.


edwin

yog
12-14-2004, 01:05 PM
Hahaha, that was funny. Looks like Cebas likes to talk trash about it's competitors.:rolleyes:

CMLSame ol' same ol' :rolleyes:
It's partly why as a former FR user, I'm now a happy Vray user, that and the increased speed and quality :D

kid tripod
12-14-2004, 01:06 PM
I agree the wording of the initial post is somewhat misleading, but this is a matter for Discreet to resolve, not you.

And I think a "rather large proportion" of Discreet customers will be aware of the product Brazil.

DanSilverman
12-14-2004, 01:24 PM
I thought just about everyone was aware of Brazil. Maybe certain individuals (read: companies) are a bit too aware of it ;) .

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 01:28 PM
I agree the wording of the initial post is somewhat misleading, but this is a matter for Discreet to resolve, not you.

And I think a "rather large proportion" of Discreet customers will be aware of the product Brazil.
Hmm, it is our business this is why I wanted to clear this matter :)
edwin

Nando
12-14-2004, 02:40 PM
It is being supported by Discreet in North America only.

Folks can purchase the bundle through any authorized Discreet resellers in North America only.
**for a limited time**


And it has nothing to do with DCP

The Promotion started yesterday, and will run till end of January 2005.
;)

Edwin Braun
12-14-2004, 03:35 PM
It is being supported by Discreet in North America only.

Folks can purchase the bundle through any authorized Discreet resellers in North America only.
**for a limited time**


And it has nothing to do with DCP

The Promotion started yesterday, and will run till end of January 2005.
;)
What makes you think Discreet is supporting such a bundle in any way?
Also where did you get your first false information ?
edwin

DanSilverman
12-14-2004, 04:24 PM
Edwin,

You are really making a big deal out of this. I can see that Cebas is proud to have official Discreet certification and all that, but so what? The thread is basically stating that someone can get MAX and Brazil at a special price. However that works with Discreet or Splutterfish, that is their business as far as I am concerned. It is certainly not Cebas' business. And it is the business of anyone that is interested in this bundle.

You are representing Cebas (at least by the signature in your posts). It seems here that people reading this thread are not so happy with your posts concerning this issue. It would seem to me that your posts here would do more harm for Cebas than your Discreet certification is doing good. I don't want to sound too negative, but it seems best simply stop posting about this subject and allow people to purchase this bundle should they want to.

BTW - If there is a problem with this bundle then I am sure that Discreet will handle it. It is their certification.

Pinoy McGee
12-14-2004, 04:33 PM
Uhh....where's the official word from splutterfish and discreet about this? There was a Splutterfish promo for v. 6 in October but I don't see any info about this new bundle deal from their sites.

Murtaza
12-14-2004, 04:33 PM
using the Discreet brand to attach their "low profile" product to the brand of Discreet. Don't misunderstand me! Low profile means here a product that is not so well known as the brand you like to be connected with.

*cough* ILM *flem* PIXAR *cough*

Excuse me :D

percydaman
12-14-2004, 04:48 PM
*cough* ILM *flem* PIXAR *cough*

Excuse me :D
haha, I was going to refrain from posting in this thread but now I cant resist. IMO fR is the max renderer that pretty much gets the LEAST notice out of all the new renderers. Seems like most use brazil, vray, or mentalray. I just rarely hear people mention fR.

And frankly, I think Edwin doth protest too much...

thethule
12-14-2004, 04:59 PM
Same ol' same ol' :rolleyes: My thoughts exactly. Good ol' Edwin. :rolleyes:

parallax
12-14-2004, 05:42 PM
Edwin,

If i were you, i would refrain from posting further messages in this thread if you care about Cebas' reputation, or at least get a marketing/PR person in here to properly represent Cebas.
Cause you're not doing a very good job here.

BrandonD
12-14-2004, 05:53 PM
Here's a bit of informed speculation and not to speak FOR Splutterfish, but I think there's quite a bit more to DCP certification than most people are aware of. If I remember correctly it's an exclusive arrangement with Discreet, something Splutterfish wants to avoid as it was never their intent to make a MAX-only renderer. Also I seem to remember something about how Discreet retains certain rights to the code base if the company goes under. During the life of MAX there were several very popular plugins that died unfortunately because the developer closed shop or stopped building new versions for MAX updates (ie. Hypermatter, xReyes, Outburst, etc). Giving Discreet a certain ownership of Brazil doesn't really fit with their model I would suspect.

Again, I'm not 100% certain of these things, but having a long working relationship with both parties, I call it "informed speculation."

PiXeL_MoNKeY
12-14-2004, 06:48 PM
What makes you think Discreet is supporting such a bundle in any way?
Also where did you get your first false information ?
edwin Edwin,
I spoke to my Discreet Certified Reseller and the bundle is being sold under a Discreet Part Number. Meaning that it is available to the Discreet Certified Resellers that Discreet is offering it to, which by what Nando posted is North American Resellers only. Unlike the one that was announced in October which was only available to Splutterfish Resellers.

-Eric

jlelievre
12-14-2004, 06:53 PM
I was fortunate enough to be able to pick up this bundle back when it was available it October. I had no problems at all...totally legitimate...totally happy. :)

charleyc
12-14-2004, 07:11 PM
After reading through this thread, just kept thinking about how Brazil came about. Originally these two guys from Blur started rewriting the raytrace engine for max, ver soon it evolved into an entirely new render (went by the name of Ghost). They published weekly-monthly updates on developement. It was increadibly enlightening and educational (an IMO a major factor in all the similar renders hitting the market for max very soon afterwords). If I remember right, it is my understanding that the original two developers of Brazil (Scott and Steve) wrote the major componants the original RayFX engine that the standard 3ds max Scanline uses/has used since like R3 and allowed it to be integrated into max. Correct me here if I am wrong on this.


If this is true ( I remember it to be), I trust Splutterfish's plugins over ALL other renderers for compatablility with max. Even though it is not intended to be a max only renderer.

PiXeL_MoNKeY
12-14-2004, 08:57 PM
I just received this in my e-mail it is official and from Discreet:

This is a commercial advertisement from Discreet. If you cannot read the information below, click here (http://i.nl03.net/ltr0/?_m=1n.00ci.1.aq05p00drz.4).
http://i.nl00.net/discreet/Images/3ds7_banner_nointro.gif http://i.nl00.net/discreet/Images/bundle_header3.gif
Take advantage of these two great bundle offers from Discreet.

3ds max 7 and Brazil from Splutterfish
Only US$3,995 — a US$700 savings!

"The second unit created 'digimattes' using
3ds max and Brazil. It was great fun, ... liberating."

Rick Sayre
Supervising Technical Director for The Incredibles, Pixar Designed for use in Film, Broadcast, and Visualization, Brazil r/s' versatile toolkit integrates easily into existing production environments and empowers the artists to predictably and reliably create any look.
3ds max and Brazil together bring about such feature film quality modeling, animation and rendering that even Pixar has used the two
together on The Incredibles (http://i.nl03.net/ltr0/?_m=1n.00ci.1.aq05p00drz.a).

Visit a Discreet Reseller (http://i.nl03.net/ltr0/?_m=1n.00ci.1.aq05p00drz.5) for more information or to purchase today.
Bundle offer ends January 31, 2004

I hope this clears up any questions about the legitamacy of the offer and who it is being offered by.

-Eric

lllab
12-14-2004, 09:14 PM
edwin, lass es sein- let it be....

it is getting worse and worser...you really put the picture that cebas is in serious trouble.
i hope i am wrong though!

it is really the worst habbit do put down competitors the wa you do, th emore you say the more i get a bad feeling. is it really that bad? brazil is one of the view prende4r engines used in big production. dont jump on this details. the deiscreet cetificate,to behonest is a good thing, but not essental. there are very good young products, vray ,brasil ,final render,

alle have a good reputation, dont detroy it.

just a hint of a 3d use, of courde just may opinion

lllab

trthing
12-14-2004, 09:15 PM
Erm... not to be picky but "offers end on January 31 2004"??? :D

PiXeL_MoNKeY
12-14-2004, 09:28 PM
Erm... not to be picky but "offers end on January 31 2004"??? :D I think someone at Discreet had a little typo there. If you are indoubt contact your local Discreet Reseller.

-Eric

trthing
12-14-2004, 09:32 PM
LOL, I'm not but they made it twice... It just adds to the drama... :twisted:

charleyc
12-14-2004, 09:32 PM
I was just on the phone with my reseller and he was telling me about this. I am sure it is a typo...funny though :)

PiXeL_MoNKeY
12-14-2004, 09:41 PM
LOL, I'm not but they made it twice... It just adds to the drama... :twisted:
Actually 3 times the full e-mail has a special for a Right Hemisphere bundle as well and it is listed as ending in Jan 2004: http://i.nl02.net/netline000s/?msg=msg.htm.txt&_m=1n%2e00ci%2e1%2eaq05p00drz%2e4

But yeah it is funny,
-Eric

dukeofhasard
12-14-2004, 10:39 PM
ok my opinion..

This hole thing is a big mess..

Their is procedures and marketing choises and decisions and contracts writen and signed for amount of year for association with either certified product or bundles stuff..


so too bad for the cheep quick dollards that discreet will get by this bulshit bundle with brazil , but alot more $$$ will be lost relative to that..

btw: no disrespect: all comment are based on personnal use and experience withing the questionning software.

Bravo discreet : Continu your big mess !!

Cheers,

soulburn3d
12-14-2004, 10:45 PM
What you say?

- Neil

dukeofhasard
12-14-2004, 10:49 PM
nothing bad relative to you Neil: My phrasing was probably worng thats why i reedit it ..

but still : i disaprouve this discreet move

ElPoofe
12-14-2004, 10:57 PM
Please stop writing. You hurt my eyes.

Thanky,

ElPoofe

Viper.dk
12-14-2004, 10:58 PM
http://www.viper.dk/stuff/images/brazil_bundle_lies.jpg
I just had to - sorry :)

ihavenofish
12-14-2004, 11:00 PM
dukeofhasard, somehow i think that discreet has a good handle on how they run their business and marketing.
at the very least they dont require a critique from someone who so obviously doesnt. now that i'm sure most registered max users have recieved their regular discreet spam, date errors and all, we can leave this alone and go about our lives as normal (whatever that is :))

edwin, its unfortunate that you have to lash out with unfounded accusations to make yourself feel better, but the sad fact is, you dont run discreet. they choose whatever bundles, partners and promotions they feel are appropriate at any given time, obviously with no consultation with you. perhaps if you made a more valid attemt to promote your own products rather than slander the competition, things like this would not cause you such great stress. anyhow, have a nice day, i am.

later

btw dukeofhasard, it would have been far more entertaining if you hadnt edited out those comments in your post. i mean, this thread could make front page! :-P

dukeofhasard
12-14-2004, 11:07 PM
"dukeofhasard, somehow i think that discreet has a good handle on how they run their business and marketing.
at the very least they dont require a critique from someone who so obviously doesnt. now that i'm sure most registered max users have recieved their regular discreet spam, date errors and all, we can leave this alone and go about our lives as normal (whatever that is :))"

Discreet dosnt have the handle of anything relative to their business desision and marketing.. anybody who know them from long time would agree that they do the more stupid desision relative to partenaria and coalition.. Your reply reflet the kind of Discreet stupid one ..

Another stupidity is to insult edwin : He is not lashing anything, he is just expecting that these news are not true For YOu r Little ass to be able to still do high end stuff using your favorite aplication.. You just dont get it right ? Signed contract for years IS not allowed to be broken cause of a quick publicity spoof ...


"btw dukeofhasard, it would have been far more entertaining if you hadnt edited out those comments in your post. i mean, this thread could make front page! :-P"

You feel funny ? I m gonna repeat again : I dont think brazil is a well drilled production renderer .. I use Mental ray with succes in production( even if i m not the more experimented in it ) and i use stage 1 (2) .

anyway go ahead reply and say stupid things..

i m having an amazing day ..

Cheers,

TerroristTate
12-14-2004, 11:15 PM
Someone mentioned something about what his post said before it was edited. I think it should stand, so here it is in all its glory. Thanks dukeofhasard for making this day so funny!


This hole thing is a big mess..

Their is procedures and marketing choises and decisions and contracts writen and signed for amount of year for association with either certified product or bundles stuff..

in my opinion brazil is a peace of crap and discreet as usuall just want to take advantage of Neil animation and rendered in brazil for incredible.. That dosnt surprize me at all from discreet..

Too bas for futur association : Maya and Xsi already want to buy the hole Cebas bundle to use a reall particle system and a reall stage2 renderer .....

so too bad for the cheep quick dollards that discreet will get by this bulshit bundle with brazil , but alot more $$ will be lost relative to that..

btw: no disrespect: all comment are based on personnal use and experience withing the questionning software.

Bravo discreet : Continu your big mess !!


TT

TerroristTate
12-14-2004, 11:24 PM
I dont think the last post made it in, or I am getting Mod'd hehe, either way, here is the second try to repost the original dukeofhasard post in all its glory.



This hole thing is a big mess..

Their is procedures and marketing choises and decisions and contracts writen and signed for amount of year for association with either certified product or bundles stuff..

in my opinion brazil is a peace of crap and discreet as usuall just want to take advantage of Neil animation and rendered in brazil for incredible.. That dosnt surprize me at all from discreet..

Too bas for futur association : Maya and Xsi already want to buy the hole Cebas bundle to use a reall particle system and a reall stage2 renderer .....

so too bad for the cheep quick dollards that discreet will get by this bulshit bundle with brazil , but alot more $$ will be lost relative to that..

btw: no disrespect: all comment are based on personnal use and experience withing the questionning software.

Bravo discreet : Continu your big mess !!

TT

nimajneb
12-14-2004, 11:32 PM
Okay, time to radio the mods for an airstrike on this thread. Folks have gotten a bit out of hand. The point is made, the bundle is "official". Enough said on the matter.

AlexScollay
12-15-2004, 12:47 AM
Another stupidity is to insult edwin : He is not lashing anything, he is just expecting that these news are not true For YOu r Little ass to be able to still do high end stuff using your favorite aplication.. You just dont get it right ? Signed contract for years IS not allowed to be broken cause of a quick publicity spoof ...

[edited for sanity's sake]

i m having an amazing day ..

Cheers, I think you just broke my cerebellum.

For what it's worth I don't think anyone was insulting Edwin, just pointing out that his comments in this thread (and others about competing renderers, sad to say) come across as unprofessional and more than a little churlish.



in my opinion brazil is a peace of crap and discreet as usuall just want to take advantage of Neil animation and rendered in brazil for incredible.. That dosnt surprize me at all from discreet..

And if we're going to get into it, I've never used a more solid and reliable renderer than Brazil.

:)

marcusss
12-15-2004, 04:29 AM
Just had to say,

nobody, and not Edwin anyway, ever said that this deal was not real. What was identified as false was what was implied in the first post, that Discreet was endorsing Brazil and that they were strategic partners, etc.. Of course the deal is real, anybody can sell their product bundled with any other. Only, it does'nt mean that they endorse any specific product by doing so. It was false info to imply anything else, and if this comes from Splutterfish, it's a cheap way of trying to gain the prestige of certification without having to work for it. I think Edwin was right to straighten this up, even though it was done with very little tact and professionnalism, I must agree.

I know Edwin is not always very mature in his commentary, but please dont over-react and be short-sighted yourselves.



Mark'huss

Nando
12-15-2004, 05:03 AM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1814214&postcount=42

marcusss did ya see that post?

I think it sez it all ;)

straight from the horses mouth, that 1st post was me the quote of course is directly from Discreet to me. an Authorized Discreet Reseller.

Im also an Authorized DCP Reseller, but there isnt any huge eye opening specials at the moment worth mentioning, but when they do come around you bet Ill post it if nobofy else does. ;)

Please dont call me a liar, or read more than there is in the first post.
The Fact is both Discreet, and Splutterfish Partenered for 2 Months
via combining 2 products.
Its a great end of the year deal for company's that either do , or have found some funds in their budget . Theres nothing better than purchasing now before end of the year for Tax write-offs.
Thats why I posted it becuase it is CG related, and who doesnt like saving money ;)
CGtalk should have a hot deals section like the oveclocker, puter sites.
:scream:

As for Splutterfish Prestige I think their gallery, and the films that have used Brazil speak for themselves.

Even though Edwin said some harsh stuff that.... well didnt sit kindly with me.
I dont know him, so i cant realy.. realy.. judge him, but I will still sell his software via DCP. if theres customers.... ;)

Different strokes for Different folks.
:shrug:

Didgeroo
12-15-2004, 06:10 AM
Edit: Sorry, bad morning mood.

ElPoofe
12-15-2004, 06:28 AM
Please ban Edwin, aka Dukesofhasard.

Good Day,

ElPoofe

Edwin Braun
12-15-2004, 08:02 AM
Just had to say,

nobody, and not Edwin anyway, ever said that this deal was not real. What was identified as false was what was implied in the first post, that Discreet was endorsing Brazil and that they were strategic partners, etc.. Of course the deal is real, anybody can sell their product bundled with any other. Only, it does'nt mean that they endorse any specific product by doing so. It was false info to imply anything else, and if this comes from Splutterfish, it's a cheap way of trying to gain the prestige of certification without having to work for it. I think Edwin was right to straighten this up, even though it was done with very little tact and professionnalism, I must agree.

I know Edwin is not always very mature in his commentary, but please dont over-react and be short-sighted yourselves.

Mark'huss This is exactly the point. And official Discreet word is they are not promoting it and for sure they did not partner. Anything can be offered by another partner as a bundle as long as you are willing to give off your margin. This is just like a price reduction for a certain amount of time. Nothing more.

So Discreet tells me this. If you believe this or not is up to you. Also there is no sign that discreet is actively promoting this bundle. It's an offer of a partner like any one could do.
Maybe users might want to wait for a "real bundle" supported and intiated by Discreet and Turbosquid.

edwin

DanSilverman
12-15-2004, 08:40 AM
Edwin,

Please. Why not take everyone's advice here and just let it go, leave it alone and bow out of this thread. You are not doing yourself or Cebas any good by continuing to argue. In case you did not get it from the very first post, the idea behind this thread was to simply let people know about a promotional price on purchasing Max7 and Brazil. Nothing more. Please, get over it already.

yog
12-15-2004, 09:02 AM
I wonder how long it will take before Edwin realises that his constant posting is keeping this promotion highlited at the top of the News forum ? :D

Edwin Braun
12-15-2004, 09:59 AM
Hehe, really? Splutterfish shoudl be happy for any promotion they get. So where is your point?

To be serious, Dan you did not get the point and I'm not repeating it any more. I'm not aginst the bundling, I'm not against any renderer. The issue is with the way this is going to be sold and regardless how good you think this offer is, the initial "presentation" was and is not correct.

Do you think Discreet is stupid and initiates a DCP program for personal money burning only? This was my point, nothing more. This bundling could have been also with a cesar salad and 3ds max. Which brings me to the point that all this is a matter of taste :) especially when you think about renderings.

edwin

DanSilverman
12-15-2004, 10:39 AM
You ... still ... do ... not ... get ... it ... ugh ...

cresshead
12-15-2004, 01:10 PM
seems as though edwin has a good point or two to make and lots of people don't "see it"...as a wise man once said...100 people with a misguided opinion against a single man with a informed opinion doesn't mean that the 100 are actually "right" just becuase there are more of them......


if you see what i mean!...

..and i'm not even starting to add to this...but edwin has a valid point...and he's in a better position than us to judge the sales/bundles of plugins fo max...we're just users here.

he's a developer.

oatz
12-15-2004, 01:18 PM
I've been following this thread since yesterday and its like watching a train wreck. . .4 or 5 times. These are the facts, so we're not all 100 fools.

1) There is a promotion for Max+Brazil
2) Discreet is promoting it, since they sent the email.
3) Cebas is a DCP, Splutterfish is not.

Is there anything else up for debate?

Khye

kees
12-15-2004, 01:21 PM
Not to get involved in this thread (no thanks), but
you might want to check this page:

http://www4.discreet.com/3dsmax/3dsmax.php?id=743


Specifically look at:

If I'm not a Discreet Certified 3ds max Plug-in Partner, can I still have a partnering relationship with Discreet?

-Kees

bubba_989
12-15-2004, 01:38 PM
I hope for the sake of Cebas that this is not really Edwin and just a hoax.
perhaps he should check his email. I received two emails from Discreet
concerning this promotion. Perhaps he should take a deep breath and look at the link posted above and realize that he has made a mistake.

sykosys
12-15-2004, 01:49 PM
This is discreet's product page... I don't see the Splutterfish deal, but the RightHemisphere one is there...

http://estore.discreet.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=30013512&SP=10024&PN=28&xid=37482&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=1642100000174329

SUB7NYC
12-15-2004, 01:55 PM
I thought that sounded fishy

BrandonD
12-15-2004, 02:32 PM
Some things never change. Here's the formula:

CebasPlugin + CompetingPlugin = EdwinSlamsCompetition


Then there's the code version:

while (competingPluginGetsAttention) do;
edwinRant();

I will say the same thing I've been saying since the Afterburn vs. Pyrocluster slamfest: Let the merits of your own product speak for themselves. All you do by critisizing the competition is make them look better and you worse. The sad thing is that Cebas makes good tools, very advanced and generally well thought out, but this aggressive "gotta show the world we're better than everyone" just stinks. Just remember, in the end it's all a bunch of ones and zeros. It's not like you're curing cancer.

Now let me get back to dodging mortars and RPGs, it's much more exciting...

charleyc
12-15-2004, 03:59 PM
This is a real fun thread. It seems these days that any thread with 3ds max in the title is guaranteed to get a ton of non-related, heated posts. :)

....Also there is no sign that discreet is actively promoting this bundle. It's an offer of a partner like any one could do.
edwin...besides the fact that DISCREET are the ones sending the e-mails (apparently to everyone on their mailing list). Discreet could very easily have used this news (Pixar thing) to just promote themselves, but they didn't. I think a bit of product endorsement to some extent is certainly implied here (an IMO justified).


Maybe users might want to wait for a "real bundle" supported and intiated by Discreet and Turbosquid.edwin?????What! Perhaps in Germany what you are doing in this thread is considered normal?? But IMO you are giving Cebas a really bad image here where I am from.

parallax
12-15-2004, 09:14 PM
DCP or not, that's beside the point of this thread, and the many reactions of Max user, AND discreet customer replying to this very thread.
I couldn't care less if there were a thousand DCP developers in this thread, Edwin is borderline-bashing the competition in a very unfair way, and i think it is smart to refrain from such statements made by Edwin, if you are related to a given 'competitor' of Splutterfish.

I think the popularity of Brazil says more then them not being DCP and all.

leigh
12-18-2004, 10:04 PM
Hey people, please cool it with all the bashinig and accusations in this thread.

thorn3d
12-19-2004, 05:00 AM
-bump-

:twisted:

thorn

bubba_989
12-20-2004, 01:23 PM
From reading the first post I never infered any endorsement, only that there was a bundle being promoted by Discreet via direct email to existing clients and other people on their mailing list. The poster was only relaying what he felt was a good promotion.

Edwin, aren't you the marketing guy for Cebas? Dhouldn't you be getting Cebas a marketing promo like this????? Instead of making inaccurate claims on forums.....

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