Can MODO replace other Highend applications?

[pnoland]

Modo is a good modeling app but I don't see it being a full featured app replacement any time soon. Not a dig at Lux but it's just too early to say anything. If it "fails as a renderer" then at least it will still be a rocking SDS modeling app which is a great tool to have anyway.

[Smalls]

IF it failed as a renderer.. then it would still be a dilemna searching for the perfect CG app.

it's like looking for the holy grail man, you feel like it's there.. and it's just about to be discovered..but nothing in hand.

Will there be any time when we no longer need additional software, plugins and rendering engines.. to support our main 3D application?

Are we expecting much from MODO? Was MODO below our expectations ?

[pnoland]

The perfect CG app? Wow man, keep looking...there is no such thing. :) There's nothing wrong with using multiple apps to finish a project...hell, most people do it. I can see being a hobbyist and using one app but speaking as a hobbyist/newly freelancer I hardly ever do all of my work in one application. I go from Silo to cinema4d to motionbuilder...just depends on what I'm doing. I wouldn't invest tons of money into a product expecting it to be the end all. I'm not saying Modo couldn't be the perfect app for -you- but in general we all have different ideas of what an ideal (or perfect) application would consist of.

[Smalls]

I go from Silo to cinema4d to motionbuilder...just depends on what I'm doing pnoland, do i have to learn 3 or 4 modelling - animation programs in order to create a movie?
or maybe to model an object with some lights and shades effects / a decent rendering?

can you imagine .. hell man .. just imagine how many hotkeys you should keep inside your head. This is bedazzling.. not to mention diff. UI , etc..
It takes some people a lifetime to master adobe photoshop, how about something like MAYA and MOTIONBUILDER ??

hehe, do you work for NASA or something ? :)

[Trilobyte]

is MODO a complete CG app?
It's only good modeller.

can MODO replace 3ds max or LIGHTWAVE for instance?
Not yet. Only in modelling.

[pnoland]

pnoland, do i have to learn 3 or 4 modelling - animation programs in order to create a movie?
or maybe to model an object with some lights and shades effects / a decent rendering?

can you imagine .. hell man .. just imagine how many hotkeys you should keep inside your head. This is bedazzling.. not to mention diff. UI , etc..
It takes some people a lifetime to master adobe photoshop, how about something like MAYA and MOTIONBUILDER ??

hehe, do you work for NASA or something ? :) Haha, NASA? No...Office Max...unfortunatly! ;) It doesn't take a genious to learn all of these tools, it just takes time and practice. Also, a genuine joy of working in 3d is a must! If you find it fun then it gets addictive and before you know it all of this nifty information is just impacted into your memory without you realizing it. Memorizing hotkeys isn't much of a problem because you can usually assign your own set of hotkeys in programs so you can have similar hotkeys for similar actions. Learning new interfaces just takes a little time and manual reading. Honestly I found that once you get good with a programs interface learning a new one is a snap since most 3d programs have similar tools just different naming methods or icon sets...Modo is a great place for you to start learning the basics of 3d applications and methods. To not get overwhelmed with things start small. Just get basic modeling down by learning all of the tools available to you in Modo. I know it seems like a lot but it helps to understand what everything does. After that try to find some good general modeling tutorials out there and try to follow them from start to end. Once you're confortable with modeling try moving on to something new...Basic rendering. Modo doesn't do rendering as of yet but there are affordable rendering packages available and some free ones also. Cinema 4d is a good one to start with since it's easy to pick up. XSI is afordable and recently Messiah:Studio released a fairly priced version. But like I said, get comfortable with Modo before worrying about creating a wicked cool movie. :D

Don't worry, before you know it you'll be going from Modo to Zbrush to photoshop to (insert animation package of choice) to (insert rendering package of choice) without breaking a sweat! :)

[ryders]

I don't memorize keyboard shortcuts for every app, I find a shortcut set I like and I customize each app to the keys you've memorized. It's a good litmus test for the app to see if I can get all the sortcut keys in my head to map to the functions in the app. As an example, I can't map the alt-x I have in silo for the split tool to anything in max, as max doesn't have a split function... as of right now, modo dosen't either. Hopefully that will change in the next couple of days... maybe at least a connect function.

rsb

[MadMax]

With very few minor exceptions, Modo is more than capable of being a main modeling app. It is certainly capable of replacing LW Modeler on a daily basis.

A lack of commercial plugins for very specialized things is a temporary issue at best.

Modo will do quite a few things LW Modeler can't.

Do you have any idea how useful putting an object in the background, then drawing a curve on that surface that conforms to the background model is?????

You'd be surprised.

And having been at the Luxology event at Siggraph last year, and getting a glimpse of what they are doing in rendering and animation, I'm not particularly worried if they will deliver a killer app, it's a matter of WHEN they will deliver a killer app.

[Nemoid]

IMHO : Modo is only a good modeler :

for now. :D

other incoming lux products could expand it, and also some
Modo update will arrive next year.

[StephanD]

I go from Silo to cinema4d to motionbuilder

I wouldn't invest tons of money into a product expecting it to be the end all


I know what you mean about not doing it all in one app(I wouldn't be using Modo,Wings3d,Zbrush and Xsi if I wouldn't) but your combo still does cost 'tons of money'.Please don't take that personally but It's quite far from a budget workflow(from a beginner's pov.)

Smalls:As for getting used to 3d with Modo.I don't know,maybe it's better to pick up some free software like Wings3d or blender and start getting acquainted with it in general then go one to a software that has rendering/animations capabilities when you're comfortable with it,hopefully will Modo have all that when you do.

Give it some time though,you can't learn modeling in a few months nor will you be rendering your own movie in the first year or so.

It takes some time and some down to earth goals to get anywhere in this cg world.

[Trilobyte]

MHO : Modo is only a good modeler :

for now.
Of course, for now. I make my models only in it and i wait animation and render parts, like all modo users.

[bradpeebler]

Let me voice the Luxology perspective here. We have been in the CG community for a LONG time. I've been working with Allen Hastings and Stuart Ferguson for about 15 years now. They've both been in CG for over 20 (turns out that makes us old!). One thing we all agree on is that there is currently a need in the 3D market to use multiple applications depending on the task at hand. (and this will be true for the foreseeable future). Could you do everything in a single appl like Maya, Max or LW? Sure! It only depends on how much pain you are willing to endure. While small studios and individual artists often use a single app (albeit extended with plugins or scripts in most cases) most larger and many mid-range studios now use a combination of tools. Therefore it was a founding precept for our company that we "play well with others". It is not our goal to completely replace the existing applications, it is our goal to work in harmony with them.

Think of it this way. What is the true goal of a company? To serve the customers so that you continue to have customers. After all, the bottom line IS the bottom line! :) So if users want, or rather NEED, to use multiple applications together, than that should be our goal. To work with multiple applications. Can modo replace modeling of a particular app? Sure. Does it have to? Nope. Just because you have modo does not mean that your copy of Max or Maya stops modeling. It just means that you have augmented your modeling toolset so that you become more productive or enhance your creative options.

If and when we extend modo beyond modeling we will always maintain this basic rule. "Play well with others." It would be foolish to assume that we could push out the incumbent 3D applications. Therefore we do not look at other companies as competitors in the classic sense. We do not focus on attacking or replacing the other apps. We focus on resolving "pain points" for the artists.

Could modo become the "end all" application of 3D? Sure, why not. ;) But we will always work like hell to make sure our tools can coexist with whatever application YOU CHOOSE as the backbone of your CG pipeline.


BP

[Trilobyte]

Every artist dreaming about perfect tool. Perfect modeller, perfect renderer etc. And modo has big chances, IMHO. But our "pain points" not only in modeller.

[bradpeebler]

Understood Mr. Big! There is pain everywhere in 3D! :)

We'll see what we can do. All in good time.

BP

[DMack]

Hi Brad,

I run a small studio doing 3D animation - that's all we do (lucky us!). At present, we use LW for modelling, animating and rendering, except for character animation where we have recently moved over to Messiah Animate (The setup mode and rigging is sooo much better than LW IMO). Having recently aquired Modo, we are going to move over to Modo shortly (some issues with surfaces at the moment so we proceed with caution). The one thing I have always found is that as soon as the production pipeline becomes truly multi app (I'm not talking using AE for post etc), like using messiah to animate within a LW scene things start to get less efficient and sonner or later things start to break/get awkward. Before LW's progress started to slow (and it really did slow down dramatically), it was an excellent production environment (except Char anim), growing nicely and causing relatively few problems - ideal for smaller studios. I bought Modo in the hope that one day (hopefully not too long!) it would become a fully featured 3d production pipeline thus removing the necessity for the multi-app route. So whilst I think the 'play nice with 3rd party' is a good idea, PLEASE don't lower the priority in producing a single application killer 3D environment - I have full faith that you guys can do it. Oh just one other note. I started LW at V3.5 and learnt it as it grew - a great way to learn the application thoroughly, so don't delay the release of the animation and rendering parts until you have every bell and whistle - let people grow with it and let people help you grow it with real life, day to day usage of the programme.

Oh one definitely last note....'If and when we extend modo beyond' .....'IF' - Don't scare us like that Brad it just plain cruel! :)

[pnoland]

I know what you mean about not doing it all in one app(I wouldn't be using Modo,Wings3d,Zbrush and Xsi if I wouldn't) but your combo still does cost 'tons of money'.Please don't take that personally but It's quite far from a budget workflow(from a beginner's pov.) I wasn't trying to say my workflow was the best, its just my flow. :D I know it's not the cheapest way to go about things but you have to think that I was a beginner at one time too, apps just don't fall into your lap (As you know ;)) So, I'm not taking the comment personally but I'd like to add to your comment saying that using a program like Blender is a good way to start understanding how rendering and animation works, then move onto bigger and well better* (* Blender is good but it's no XSI, C4D, 3ds, Lightwave...etc.) programs when you've saved up enough money. Also, if you're a student use that to your advantage and check out the student pricing for the various rendering apps out there. www.studica.com (http://www.studica.com) is a great site for students...Hell, look at the student price of Modo. That's a down right good deal on Luxology's part.

[Nemoid]

IMHO the best approach to the current market is to follow some rules :

1) create a good environment with different modules all of them able to play as stand alone, and work well with other apps, just like Modo does and its meant to do,


this is valid for different areas : modelling, rendering, animating, sfx.

2) Make modules play very smoothly with each other so that they form a very good app together.

in this way, if an user wants to play all Luxology he can, while if he uses basically
an other applike Maya or Lw, he can buy one or different modules and work. into a
mixed pipeline

In all honesty i believe this is Lux philosophy, or at least this is what expect from a company like Luxology, due to its founders experience and programming ability

p.s. 3rd rule. all the focus has to be on final user as an animator no programmer or
technician at all. easy yet powerful is the key word.

[DMack]

IMHO the best approach to the current market is to follow some rules :

1) create a good environment with different modules all of them able to play as stand alone, and work well with........

.......as an animator no programmer or
technician at all. easy yet powerful is the key word.

Couldn't agree more.

[lightwolf]

The one thing I have always found is that as soon as the production pipeline becomes truly multi app (I'm not talking using AE for post etc), like using messiah to animate within a LW scene things start to get less efficient and sonner or later things start to break/get awkward.
...
So whilst I think the 'play nice with 3rd party' is a good idea, PLEASE don't lower the priority in producing a single application killer 3D environment
I 100% agree.
Going multi-app kills productivity in smaller studios imho, especially if you don't specialize, but are a bunch of generalists.
We don't to much CA at all, mainly LW based as well, with a bit of Modo and PmG, but the latter two I hardly use because the headaches involved in including them in the pipeline aren't worth it for the kind of jobs we do.
Cheers,
Mike

[DMack]

I 100% agree.
Going multi-app kills productivity in smaller studios imho, especially if you don't specialize, but are a bunch of generalists.
We don't to much CA at all, mainly LW based as well, with a bit of Modo and PmG, but the latter two I hardly use because the headaches involved in including them in the pipeline aren't worth it for the kind of jobs we do.
Cheers,
Mike
Glad I'm not alone.... for small studio's there is a song (now all sing along) ..'single app, that's a snap, multi app now that's just cr**. He he

[lightwolf]

for small studio's there is a song (now all sing along) ..'single app, that's a snap, multi app now that's just cr**. He he
:bounce: :applause: *singing along*
I guess the more versatile the job requirements are, the fewer tools you want to work with. I don't mind switching tools between jobs, but within a job (with no budgets, short deadlines ....) it is a pain. And unfortunately I don't work in an area where the lack of skill, tools or manpower gets compensated in cash either ;)

Cheers,
Mike

[StephanD]

Using Multiple applications 'does' give problems,we had compatibility issues in our last production just because our client had an older version of Max and our animator used Motionbuilder back and forth with his own version.Needless to say we've face a few walls.

That said,modeling is quite different,I mean,most modeling applications will be fine to work in a pipeline since importing geometry and Uv's is a breeze with obj.I know,I used wings3d to achieve that project :)


PNoland:All's cool,we all do it differently and take our own prefered paths,I didn't mean to say you meant your workflow is the best so it's ok.Educative version are nice indeed.

[lightwolf]

That said,modeling is quite different,I mean,most modeling applications will be fine to work in a pipeline since importing geometry and Uv's is a breeze with obj.
I beg to differ, but it depends on your workflow.
Once you have tons of tweaks from customers, in-context modelling, or a large hierarchy to model, it becomes a pain to switch. Heck, that already is a pain in some full packages (LW comes to mind here :) ).

Cheers,
Mike

[StephanD]

I beg to differ, but it depends on your workflow.
Once you have tons of tweaks from customers, in-context modelling, or a large hierarchy to model, it becomes a pain to switch. Heck, that already is a pain in some full packages (LW comes to mind here :) ).

Cheers,
Mike

You're right it can get tricky in these situations.

[Nemoid]

maybe the example doesn't fit completely, but i 'd like to add that what i see emerging rapidly in the market is something like z brush, wich is a modeler, but also has rendering, texturing and more capabilities. a completely different approach to 3d content creation, but so similar to reality it becomes easier for final user to work.it's a pleasure to work with it.

now i imagine easy and powerful philosophy applied to animation too...

surely Lux could do a lot for the progress of 3d creation rather than thinking to a good modeler playing good with others. not saying lux thinks only to this thing, tho

only saying : innovate. there0s so much to do to give users more power and pleasant tools to work with

[DMack]

The other inherent problem with the multi-app scenario is that every 3d sw company has it's own development cycle and they don't all align. If you are going to have software inter-dependency then this is going ot cause problems...for example I've, to date, used LW to model but want to move over to modo because it has edge creasing etc...great....except that LW and messiah don't support edge weighting and so the feature becomes less useful (sure you can freeze but who wants to?). Now messiah Animate might start to support it at some stage (they don't have a modeler) but this all takes time. A complete 3D environment/suite/application developed by one company simply won't have these (and many other) problems. That, I guess, is why I am personally soooo hoping for a really good single app pipeline from the Lux guys. I truly believe that apart from seriously high end film work, they could code a package that would satisfy nearly every studios/individuals needs - So Lux don't set that sight too low - I think a LOT of people and studios ARE looking for a complete replacement!


Oh by the way, have I mentioned....people also want it now? He He He

[Nemoid]

multi app pipelines is used alot in the industry, but i cannot agree more ...

a complete and possibly revolutionary app is needed as well.at least this is what i and many people expect from Luxology at the end of compiling process.

[fez]

Development seems to be going ahead at an impressively riproaring pace. Gotta admit I am suffering from greener-side-of-the-fence syndrome, especially after seeing the excitement incited by these Sneak Previews. Is it really that cool? I am content with my modeler (Lightwave) but all those gushing "it's the best thing since sliced bread" quotes from established Lightwavers on the Lux front page has me intrigued...anyone have any theories as to whether a Modo animation/rendering module will be upgrade pricing or priced independent of the modeling module?

[DMack]

Hi Fez,

Modo is really very good. Regards to rendering etc, without wishing to sound like I have an official voice here (I don't!), Lux are not going to release ANY info, including timetables until they are ready to do so....so we will all have to wait and see.

[Nemoid]

well from the very little we know we have a good modeler, a rendering in the works, and Lux showed some animation capabilities as well at the start of their history so i think it's a matter of time, waiting the job is done.

[pensart]

If only Luxology would let us know "now and then" when to expect a preview or something similar of the things to come. Especialy the rendering and animation part!! I'm sure a lot of artist dont know wich road to travel anymore. Especialy with all the price wars and promotions the software compagnies offer these days.

Slipping us some news about what coming next wont hurt at all.
I'm sure it will bring more and more interested customers to modo.

Btw, i hope there will be a hair solution :P

Greetz,
Pensart

[mav3rick]

i got modo on my desk i look forward to all spectrum of luxologyu apps . So i hope they will not dissapoint me and stop on modo. What i really wait is render and animation module and that's my biggest expectations out of luxology team. Modo is just begining.

[CB_3D]

More and easier control over bone deformations,that´s waht i am really looking forward to.

[sacslacker]

All I know is that modo + maya with a splash of ZBrush and a good compositing package makes me a very happy guy.

Modo is kick ass but I'm not looking for a Maya replacement. Modeling in modo and exporting to Maya is fairly seemless (it would be a ton better if Maya had better edge weighting) and I dont find it as a distraction at all.

Why pull up a big, fat app if all you have to do is model. Modo is fast!

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