Castle/buildings wip.

[kiwi]

2

[kiwi]

3

[kiwi]

I have another couple as well,but we are not allowed to post to many image in one thread now are we.


Stu.

[Rk¤]

:bounce: waaaaou look great can you post post other picture with better resolution ? :bounce:

[kiwi]

Thanks :D


I am limited to the 50k upload image RK?,but I will see what I can do.The images are basic renders with geometry aa :)


Stu.

[AdamT]

It's looking really good. I like the lighting a lot. Maybe the textures a just a little busy?

[LucentDreams]

I'd like to see a larger image, email me one I'll host it for you.

[kiwi]

Thanks guys :thumbsup:


I will do a decent render first Kai and send one over for you,thanks for that I appreciate it.



Adam ya the texture is set on cubic I might play with that a bit more :)



Cheers


Stu.

[ThirdEye]

How did you do clouds and sky? Is it a pic or Pyrocluster work?

[kiwi]

The clouds are a photo :)



I would love to be able to get my copy of Pyrocluster to do clouds like that :D



Stu.

[neilyb]

Nice work Stu! If you Email me some larger ones I'll stick them on my server....would love to see them HQ!

[kiwi]

Thanks bud :D



I mailed Kai a bigger one just before,but I know he is real busy so he will put it up when he has time :)



Ok I can mail a bigger one now



Stu.

[kiwi]

Heres a bigger one :)



Cheers to Kai for hosting it :thumbsup:


http://www.cgi.third-era.com/~kaiskai/castlebig.jpg

[j00st81]

wickid!

very nice, apart from some stretched textures ;)

[Grey]

Kiwi, are you matching geometries to the texturs? the windows for instance?

[kiwi]

joost yep I have fixed that :thumbsup:



Grey do you mean like cubic for cubic shapes etc?......I dont quite get what you mean :)



Stu.

[AdamT]

Cool! I don't think that sky texture is going to work though. The clouds don't scale towards the horizon, i.e., the perspective is wrong.

[Grey]

eyesight must be getting bad... :D

nebbermind.

[kiwi]

Maybe not bud it did need tweaks :D


Heres one where I have done some more texture work.



Stu.

[kiwi]

This one is an experiemnt with Pralines fog :) ...used red,then played with channels in PS.

[Grey]

BTW, I stick it up usuallly on posergallery.com

I posted mine for Cinema under "OTHER" on the Pulldown

Make sure you use a Thumbnail or Awol (James Clark) will pull it down :D

NICE MIST!

[kiwi]

Thanks :thumbsup:


Bare with me for a bit will ya its a brain fart day.So you are saying Poser gallery is where you link your images to?



I am almost totally html illiterate,its been enough of a struggle learning PS and C4D etc over the last 2 years,without taking on html as well....hahahaaa I am scared if do start learning html what I know about 3d will fall out the other ear onto the floor,which is possible :D


Stu.

[That Adrian Guy]

Hey Stu,

That's a really good castle you have. I don't know if the lighting is intentional, but it looks like a video game.

You may want to use a light intensity Above 100%

Keep it up! Makes me want to build something like it!

[randyrives]

Nice job Stu. I love the castle. What are your plans with it? Maybe having a dragon attacking it?

[kiwi]

Thanks guys :)


Adrian - Its 3 point light with a light bluish 100% omni,a brown orange fill omni at 50%,and a back light spot of 40 and blue......so I suppose its the subject that maybe reminds us of a game environment as I agree it does look like a game.



Randy - Ya I want to do a nice leisurely camera fly by,but it takes 5 minutes a frame to render with the dirty nuts,so I ight wait until I get my new system after Christmas,either that or I can get about 120 frames in 10 hours :hmm:



Stu.

[Pate]

Originally posted by kiwi
Randy - Ya I want to do a nice leisurely camera fly by,but it takes 5 minutes a frame to render with the dirty nuts,so I ight wait until I get my new system after Christmas,either that or I can get about 120 frames in 10 hours :hmm:


Hmm.. You mean to say that is slow? :)

My PC is currently rendering at 3 frames / hour, I thought it goes pretty fast.. :) (P4 2.2GHz 640MB RAM, using 5x Scene Motion Blur with a scene taking about 600MB)

The scene has a displacement-mapped sphere with the largest subdivision C4D allows (1000), I guess that causes most of the slowdown.. But hey, I'm in no hurry... ;)

Pate

[kiwi]

Its slow when you are outputting at 320 x 320 :D My scene has no blur to speak of and the whole thing is about 4.2m :D



My puter would hide in the corner and cringe if you so much as tried to open your file on it,let alone render it :D



Stu.

[Grey]

Kiwi, adrean's right, it's one of the reasons I had issue.

Have you thought about using the Sunlight setting instead?

That's what I did for this image, and it sorta worked:
http://www.posergallery.com/scripts/showimg.plx?Image=1690.jpg&title=C4D+rendertest&artist=%3CB%3EGrey%3C/B%3E

[kiwi]

Ok I will give it a try :thumbsup:


Could also be I am not lifting the gamma enough.Problem is I should not adjust the gamma again until I have daylight to work with to do it in,only I forget and sometimes do it at night :hmm:


Stu.

[Per-Anders]

Firstly this is a wonderful image, and it just needs tweaks to get it there, this is only my tuppence, and what i'd do, but of course it's up to you and after all it's your artistic vision, none of ours...

I would tone back the grit and grime on the textures a little bit... the game like look is a combination of a number of things.

Number one has already been identified and that's the lighting... iw ouldnt use the sunlight setting as it's a pain and it puts in hard shadows only. what you can do is use a cluster of about four or five lights set apart slightly with soft (but not too soft shadows) for the sun... this will give you a quick fix for area style shadows (that soften off the further away they are from the object casting the shadow) these should have a cumulative light value of about 150% so if there are five lights you they should each be set to about 30% (slightly yellow light). Then try using an area light above the scene to cast sky light down, use a colour close to the clouds for this, and again soft shadows make this pretty low key. You may want to then use another area light at the bottom of your scene with teh ground colour and no shadows to get the effect of light bouncing back up, if you do this then remember to put a falloff on this light as otherwise it will cast a steady light all the way up to the top of your model and that will make it look small. From there you may want to add a few smaller omni lights here and there very lightly to control the overall balance of teh image, use positive and negative lights.

Number two is teh textres themselves... the reason they look game like is that theyre a little bit too uniform... the overall look (if you squint your eyes) is too even. But at the same time they have too high a contrast. In real life the edges of castle rocks aren't quite so high contrast... in fact if you look at a rock face of a castle in teh sun you may find you can't see any detail at all because it's all bleached out... the definition is given by the shadows but the shadows aren't everywhere, so use bump and colour maps wisely. The green of the leaves needs to be less even, run some turbulence through it, or if you're using photoshop to make the textures then use some cloud layers and blur them a little colourise them in teh hue saturation dialog box, and layer them over the green foliage. Don't make any shadows in photoshop itself (as in don' have a dark side to teh stones/leaves there, or outline things unless your'e going for a cartoon look). Lower the overall contrast of the colour map... maybe you need to drop the depth of teh bump maps if you're using any. Again break up the even rows of rocks on the castle just a tiny ammount... maybe use dirtyNuts to get a bit more grime in there, overlay some noise channels using different blenidng methods (but be gentle... it's got to be subtle) make the noise large so the texture undulates over the whole surface. Use very very slight distortion on the texture if you want to simple displacement... Stone and Foliage each have their own textures... use a specular map to give the greenery a slightly different specular setting to the stone. Underly the basic edges of the rocks in the bumpmap channel with an ever so slight turbulence noise channel to give the stone some stone like quality... try making each of the textures seperately on just a normal block... dont treat all the textures as just one... that's the other reason it looks a little game like... it's one texture map... be subtle... be a little random... have fun

I know it sounds like i'm being really critical and aggressive, but it's a wonderful image that could like i say just do with a couple of simple tweaks to really get it there...

[kiwi]

Thanks :thumbsup:


I love critique as it helps me to improve.

Thanks for taking the time to write down the improvments I can add,I really appreciate it :)



Right I have some work to do and then I will re post it :thumbsup:



Stu.

[kiwi]

I handpainted the spec map and the color map :) ....I am still working on the bump {shader} at this time and playing with more diffusion.Have not tweaked the lighting yet either.



Is this better?



Stu.

[neilyb]

Stu, I can't really tell from the pic but the bump looks inverted. Still looks tiled and repetative!

[Per-Anders]

it's better... but think of a castle, and the tools used, if your'e building a large structure out of stone you need to have heavier blocks near to where the stress points are, so at the base of the castle there are huge stones to take the weight of the full wall, then at the levels where there are floors you get larger stones too. each layer of stones is of a different size in general just because these things weren't made using lasers, and also there's a certain aesthetic quality about the whole thing ("I've got a bigger castle that thou!"), the corners are also stress points and around windows.

In terms of the colour map, don't colour in the actual stone edges, leave that to the bump map and shadows, or if you do colour the edges in do it very very subtly, make the sunlight stronger and reduce the ambient level. Although you've done a lot of work on the texturemap... the thing is you don't want people to be noticing that (unless they're cg artists) remember always that you're making an image and technique just facilitates this, unless the image is about technique it shouldn't be evident how much work has gone into the image.

But it's definitely getting better, so keep up the good work, you can get it there :)

[kiwi]

Thanks :)


I can see I have been underestimating how difficult the bump map would be.



Stu.

[kiwi]

I thought it would be easier if I show the bump on its own then in the color map next :)



Crap?,getting there?,or better?



Stu.

[kiwi]

With color

[Grey]

Kiwi,

I'd tighten the stone gaps quite a bit.

Are you using a procedural shader or a bitmap?

[Per-Anders]

definitely better... but perhaps you don't need to emphasise the blocks in the colour map at all with outlines... you could always have the mortar as a slightly different colour (ever so slightly more grey for example). The high contrast on the colour map is what makes it look "game like" let c4d do some of the work for you....


hold on i just looked again at what you posted and it's the bump maps contrast that's causing a few problems for you... perhaps soften or round off some of the blocks (just select the inside of the blocks in photoshop then do a gausian blur... maybe put a bit more overall rough texture into teh bumpmap channel (just a slight ammount as you would get on rock)...

other than that, looking good !!! (though if htis is the bump map then why does the image before have the horizontal lines all over it?)

[kiwi]

The first one is procedural and the second is a bit map.I used the vector rounded rectangle for making the blocks so ya I will clean that up a bit more :thumbsup:



Stu.

[neilyb]

Kiwi, those bricks definately want to be squared off, tighten the gaps, make them more uniform....have a look at some picks of Notredame....er..maybe not is it is mainly small stones......Any way...coming along nicely, but as Mdme says you will need to add some chaos to the bricks also!!:applause:

[geoffr]

Just a quick point and i'm sure you've already considered this but if you do a diffusion map, make the mortar duller than the blocks.
i must say that this is the type of thread i really enjoy reading. i may not have a lot to say but it's good reading and learning from other peoples comments (who know a hell of a lot more than i will ever know) and then seeing the outcome.
Thanks Kiwi :thumbsup:

[kiwi]

Have made some fixes,and its finally getting there :thumbsup:



Geoffr you are welcome bud :)



Ok I have found through experimenting nice quick excellent way of making an accurate grime map.Make a copy of your original color map,paste the channel into a hue sat channel,reduce the lightness only,now leave all channels the same bar the alpha,add a circular gradient of black to white an pull the white circle in quite tight,{the white is where you map will be most opaque} now use your selection tools and make a tag for some polys where you want grime,now chuck your new copy on your model and experiment with different interpolations.You should have nice smooth feathered grime edges that match your color map perfectly,if not go back to your alpha and paste it into a fusion channel and 2d noise and hama {think it was hama...experiement},then set your blend mode to 100% levr and your edge problem should be solved :)


Works a treat :thumbsup:


And if that new vertex tool we are getting in 8 has airbrush settings I will be one very happy camper :)


Stu.

[Grey]

Kiwi, you know what else you could do with that bump map?

You could also use it as an alpha channel and put a totally different material tag under for the mortar.

[kiwi]

Ya thats a good idea :thumbsup:



You mean invert the output of the alpha channel?



Oh ya call me Stu...already :D

[Grey]

Kiwi. no I was suggesting you use an alpha channel to mask off for an underlying texture with an entirely separate texture tag.

[kiwi]

Ahhh right now I got you :thumbsup:



I made an entirely new bump map today,this one works really well.Ya know I would never have guessed placing stone blocks together would entail such incredibly tight blocks on the map itself.The map is over 1000 x 1000 and it was still really hard to get tight closure :hmm:



Stu.

[kiwi]

New bump :)



Still basic lighting.


Stu.

[neilyb]

Looking better already Stu. But what are those strange green/dirty squares near the bottom?

[neilyb]

Heres where I would put some grunge and water damage (black bits).....of course it's just an idea!

[Per-Anders]

Stu that's a million times better, but it still needs a few tweaks. Like neilyb says add some water damage to the edifice, (bottom of the building and down any gullets, at the ends of window ledges etc... anywhere that water would naturally run... my only thought on the bump map (now seeing it in position) is that you might want to distort it slightly so that the blocks are a little more uneven in shape to give it a more organic look. but it's certainly looking really good, and i'd also go with the idea of using the bump channel as an alpha through to a different colour for the mortar (darker, granier). But like i said, so much better... keep up the good work!

[kiwi]

Thanks guys :thumbsup:


Ya I agree about the water,I will try that again.The problem I am having is a light rig which renders quickly for checking tex placement etc which also lets me see how pronounced/dark etc the material is when applied to the building :)


Neil those green blocks are because doofus here forgot to add an alpha DOH!!! :D


Hmm water damage,ah ya I can make a new layer in PS on top of the original color layer.


Ok bump distorting and water damage it is :)



Stu.

[Grey]

that is a lot more impressive!

[kiwi]

Thanks bud :thumbsup:


Now I am starting to get the hang of layering the materials.

I cant get a nice dark water stain happening without it being bleached out?,I have checked all the lights,the spec channel,the reflection channel,the default light is not on and no lights are hiding and there is no environment map,and I am using a black gradient as the alpha :hmm:


Stu.

[kiwi]

.

[kiwi]

I forgot that square again Neil :scream:

[Grey]

much MUCH better!

I think I saw your work in the Warcraft Trailerr, no :D (only half kidding)

[Per-Anders]

much better kiwi! keep up the good work, you're getting there :)

[kiwi]

Cheers :D



Now I get to hunt through all my tags to find that small square.



Stu.

[neilyb]

Nice!:buttrock:
But the water stains are black, you are going to need to look at some old water damage. It would be more greenish and brown (due to the algae which grows in such areas!)....but I would leave the black beneath the green to add the depth required for the effect!

[kiwi]

Ya I agree bud :)



Something keeps on bleaching out my bloody colors though and I have not been able to work out what it is,in fact it could be a material with to much screen mode in it somewhere actually,didnt think of that :hmm:



I will have one last try at adding some color in that area :)



Stu.

[kiwi]

I am almost there....thanks for all the input guys :thumbsup: ...Sadie your lighting help rawks :D



Can anyone tell me why the grey areas {disc for floor,will be water} which are actually below the round structure {monument type thingy}look like they are actually higher?,all the axis are at 0 except for the y.....used a wide angle camera as well.



On another note Terrgen for OSX is going to be released really soon,its already in beta.And I am told by someone from Terragen that they are going to make Terragen friendly with all the 3d apps,C4D included :D



Stu.

[neilyb]

Hi Stu, looks a hundred times better now. I think it is just the camera angle that you will have to play with for the grey bits...

[derwolpertinger]

looks pretty cool man! :applause:

[kiwi]

Thanks guys :thumbsup:


It now has water and a few more tweaks.Already for an overnight render now :thumbsup:



I will probably re render it again in 8 anyway.

Man next week is gonna be busy if 8 turns up as I have upgraded AE TO 5.5 and PS6 to 7 and they are probably all going to land at the same time :hmm:


Stu.

[LucentDreams]

ahhh PS 7 is easy as pie to adjust to, spend an hour with the new paintbrush, tey spellchecker once, never use the browser, and turn off the new save thumbnail or whatever setting it was that creates a special image for you new browser. it can triple save times depending on the size and complexity of your photosopfile. AE well you got a bit to learn there, especially if you are going to also experiment with the AE/C4D plugin too. then there is R8, this should keep you busy for a manoth or two of just learning ;) So much to leanrn so little time. Now that my film is pretty much inthe bag (all painted, one 3D camera move to do and editing and sound) I am finally doing some animation, needless to say somuch new stuff to learn or relearn in new ways.

[Per-Anders]

so much to learn so little time...

maybe that does lend credence to the idea that c4d 8 will be out in the next couple of weeks... the speculation grows. Whatever the release date next week or end of october... it's gonna be a whole heap of fun learning it :):bounce:

[kiwi]

Ya I cant wait,but it looks like my dealer may have been just a bit too quick off the mark :)



Kai I have AE5 and the 5 C4D plugin,but I suppose the 5.5 one will be quite different....oh ya I am using standard not PB,cant afford PB :hmm:



Stu.

[kiwi]

Heres the final render :)


Its 800 x800 {the orginal} and it took 1hr 50 to render.


Stu.

[derwolpertinger]

really really great work kiwi! :thumbsup: looks perfect!

[kiwi]

Thank you derwolpertinger :thumbsup:


I cant believe how much I learnt about materials whilst making that scene:D


Stu.

[Grey]

<---amazed!

[gidgit]

Now then, just make it out of real materials about a thousand times larger and send me a key... looks like a great place to spend a weekend... :D

Nice job Stu... per usual... :)

Boyo, do you ever have some fun ahead with all those fun toys/tools coming your way... ( hehe, just had a mental picture of Stu popping his head out to the rest of the world in about three months from now with a seriously silly grin on his face, smacking himself on his forehead and exclaiming loud enough for the whole mall to hear...DOH!!! )

Ha ha, you've got it going Stu...



:beer:

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