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View Full Version : Loose the post count as it is unnecessary


JTD
12-07-2004, 08:45 PM
At another forum I frequent, the mods decided to stop displaying the post count because a couple of individuals were going for 20,000 a year (it seemed). It took the wind right out of their sails and they have since backed off on the unnecessary posts with the mods having to ban them.



It had another unexpected benefit. More people who had only been lurking started contributing to the discussions. They cited the post count as the reason for not posting. It made them feel insecure about their advice. In all honesty, it makes sense because as humans we tend to judge the experience of the advice by the number of posts we see theyíve accumulated. But the truth is that a person with 3 posts can have something very intelligent and appropriate to say while a person with 3,000 posts might have nothing more to say than ďKewl.Ē But if the average person gets two conflicting pieces of advice, that person will most likely go with the advice from the person who has a higher post count and completely ignore the person with the lower post count.



Keep in mind that this is just a suggestion that has worked out very well at another place I frequent. I do not judge by the post count and I hope that others take me seriously when I have something to say. But it just might be the incentive for many lurkers to post constructive discussions and dissuade unnecessary posts.



Now, if you decided to implement this you run into two problems. 1) Avatars: How does a person know when theyíve reached the appropriate number of posts to be able to display an avatar. I smile when I say this but thatís not my problem. Thatís for you to work out. 2) Milestone celebrations: How does a person know when theyíve reach 1,000 posts. In my opinion, who cares?



Take it for what you will. Thanks for being the CG forum of choice for me.

Mibus
12-07-2004, 09:41 PM
The ideal solution would be to store and use post counts internally, but only ever show you your own post count.

Tocpe
12-09-2004, 08:51 PM
JTD does bring up some good points. Personally, I wouldn't miss the post counts if they were to disappear.

JDex
12-11-2004, 08:27 PM
Agreed... Post count only viewable to the poster... another option could be to just list it in the profile so that it is not in anyone's face, but always retrievable... ADD A POLL!!!

mummey
12-12-2004, 03:42 AM
... but then Leigh might lose her intimidation factor. :wise:

... nah. ;)

JeroenDStout
12-12-2004, 10:05 AM
..but... but... just as I have many post you are going to switch if all off.. how I can pretend to be wise now?! :deal:

Garma
12-12-2004, 05:01 PM
nah.. I like to know what kind of people I'm dealing with. The join date in combination with the post count gives quite a good estimation of what someone is about. You know - lurker, new guy, social or blattering, etc.

jussing
12-13-2004, 12:48 PM
I'm with Garma! The post count is highly important to me.

Some people will register with the sole purpose of flaming and ranting, and they're easy to "filter out" if you can see their rant is their 1st or 2nd post.

Plus, ranting and flaming aside, like Garma put it, it's just nice to know who you're talking to.

I say keep it! :)

Cheers everybody,
- Jonas

JTD
12-13-2004, 05:40 PM
Thank you, Garma and jussing, for illustrating my point. People judge unfairly by the post count. A person who registers only to provoke arguments will be discovered by their words and not by the number of their posts. People with a post count of 4 might actually be professional artists with 15 years experience. Similarly, a person with 4,000 posts just might have been fired and decided to flame the CGTalk community because they are bitter. Itís happened before it will happen again.



Furthermore, your attitude toward the post count just might be exactly the reason why some people register but donít post at all. They are afraid of being ignored, criticized, ostracized, etc.



Keep in mind that, a lurker is not necessarily a bad person but a person that follows a thread for the information it provides. If they have nothing to contribute to the discussion then they are mature enough not to post just for the sake of posting.



In conclusion, you cannot know who you are talking to if you base your facts solely on the post count.

gnz
12-13-2004, 06:26 PM
Well I can see good arguments both pro and against this suggestion. Personally, Id rather see the post count go. As Jdex says, it could still be retrievable if one really wanted to know.

Thank you, Garma and jussing, for illustrating my point. People judge unfairly by the post count. A person who registers only to provoke arguments will be discovered by their words and not by the number of their posts. People with a post count of 4 might actually be professional artists with 15 years experience. Similarly, a person with 4,000 posts just might have been fired and decided to flame the CGTalk community because they are bitter. Itís happened before it will happen again.

Yes this is true, how many absolutely astounding pieces have been posted by members with less than 5 posts? (particulary from asian users) They have the post count plus the foreign language intimidation factors, so they rarely comment back even on their own threads. Has somebody else noticed this?


In conclusion, you cannot know who you are talking to if you base your facts solely on the post count.

The benefit I can see of a post by someone with a high number of posts is that I can tell he/she is dedicated to the forum, which is important in regard to the quality of their comment. But then again, you could actually read and think, and judge comments by their content instead of letting the post count of the poster be a bias.
.

Garma
12-13-2004, 10:58 PM
In conclusion, you cannot know who you are talking to if you base your facts solely on the post count.

I didn't say anything about the artistic qualities of the person, nor did I illustrate your point. Experience showed me that you can divide people in groups by post count, join date and cgchoice avatar. And these are not the groups you point out. I do *not* equalise low post count with incapability. If fact, I cannot believe anybody does. To me low post counts are white sheets, ready to be written (great artist/flamer/fanboy/etc).

What I do believe is that high post counts (and please do forget my own postcount for now) in general show that someone contributed to the community, something that a community needs to exist. High post counts only consisting of useless comments seems hard to believe to me. The "members with 4000 posts can also flame" argument seems pretty weak to me, for obvious reasons.

and also there is the community feeling. You know, people who have been around for some time know what cgtalk is about, it's rules, it's mods, the nice places, the members etc. Of course new guys are welcome but I like to know that they are new. But this might seem like a weird remark to you which is justified.

Tocpe
12-14-2004, 01:02 PM
Good points on both of the sides of the issue. I'm kinda on the fence now. hmmm... what about the ability for the user to disable the display of their post count, so it's displayed on case-by-case basis?... Just an idea I'm throwing out there. :)

JTD
12-14-2004, 04:17 PM
Thank you for illustrating my point, Garma. People use the post count to label other people. Especially when you consider that the post count is low. In fact, a label can be given solely on first impressions in combination with a low post count.

For example, letís say someone was in a feisty mood and they made a sarcastic comment. People with low post counts are labeled as trolls while people with high post counts are ďforgivenĒ. The reasoning behind this, of course, is that the high post count person is assumed to have contributed to the community where as the low post count person is assumed to have not contributed. Not only is this misleading but it is wholly unfair on an individual basis. A sarcastic comment does not define an individualís life, experience, passion, or personality, regardless of post count.


Now Iím not married to this idea so take it for what you will. In fact, vote it down because it is your prerogative to do so. But I do believe that everyone should be treated with respect and given the benefit of the doubt. Labeling is elitist. Elitism is discrimination. This doesn't mean that we as humans don't label people all the time, because we do. But together we are a professional community that should uphold a higher standard.

jussing
12-14-2004, 04:22 PM
I still do not think Garma has illustrated your point. :) Our opinions are different, and there we part ways. :)

I would miss the post count, as I think it is part of a user's profile.

Peace to all,
- Jonas

JTD
12-14-2004, 07:45 PM
I donít want to beat a dead horse but listen carefully: It is not my personal opinion that between the two of you was said the following, ďThe join date in combination with the post count gives quite a good estimation of what someone is about,Ē and, ďthey're easy to "filter out" if you can see their rant is their 1st or 2nd post.Ē

These are your words, not mine. It is not mine personal opinion that you judge others by their post count. Let me repeat that: it is not my personal opinion that you folks have come on this thread and stated that, and I paraphrase here, Ďyou have a good estimation of what someone is about by their post count.í

I stated that you illustrated my point because I said that people judge by the post count and you said that you did. If you have stated in writing that you know what someone is about by their post count then by sheer definition you have illustrated my point. I donít know how to explain it any better.

You and I can have differing opinions whether or not the post count should exist but we cannot have differing opinions based on the fact that you judge by the post count. That is not my opinion that you wrote that, it is a fact.

Now I agree with you that the subject of this thread, however, does lend itself to opinion. I understand that you want to keep the post count. I get it. I even respect your opinion. In fact, I suspect that most people will want to keep their post count. It was just a suggestion. I donít take it too seriously and Iím not offended by your remarks. This idea works very well at another place I frequent. That doesnít mean that theyíre more mature than this site by any stretch of the imagination. I only offer a suggestion for change and Iíve included some reasons for my change. My reasons were quite valid at the other forum but they may be irrelevant here at CGTalk. I donít know. But I opened this thread so your voice could be heard and I appreciate your opinion.

jussing
12-14-2004, 08:10 PM
:) I'll beat a dead horse. :)

The "filter out" statement was mine, not Garma's, and he may not even agree with that. I don't know.

Second, I think there's a long way from "judging people from their post count" to "using the post count in combination with the join date to give a good estimation". No-one is talking about using low post counts to exclude or flame people. In fact, Garma specifically writes "I do *not* equalise low post count with incapability. If fact, I cannot believe anybody does", which is why I hardly think he is proving your point.

Oh and I agree on your long disclaimer about opinions. I respect yours as I expect you to respect mine, so don't worry, no offense is taken on either side. :)

All we can do here is speak of our respective opinions, and let the almighty mods that be decide what to do with the issue. ;)

Cheers,
- Jonas

Garma
12-14-2004, 10:02 PM
I stated that you illustrated my point because I said that people judge by the post count and you said that you did. If you have stated in writing that you know what someone is about by their post count then by sheer definition you have illustrated my point. I donít know how to explain it any better.

could you please cut the "you illustrate me" stuff, since it makes me think you that you don't read my posts. I need to add here that I completely agree with the last paragraph of your last comment: we're just discussing things here, no hard feelings :) it's up to the mods to decide. I think we both made valid statements.


For example, letís say someone was in a feisty mood and they made a sarcastic comment. People with low post counts are labeled as trolls while people with high post counts are ďforgivenĒ.

I really cannot see why high post counters are forgiven in those situations (given the fact that one doesn't know him at all, like never seen a post of him before). On the other hand, If one does know this high post counter, the situation equals real life, where things go exactly like that. nothing wrong with that.

I want to explain this. Imagine a friend of yours calls you a jerk because he.. well just because he's having a bad day. You'll probably forgive him. Would you forgive the dude in the street if he would call you a jerk?

Concluding I think we agree on the fact that the perceptions of post counts are not for every member the same.. probably

JDex
12-14-2004, 11:41 PM
I would miss the post count, as I think it is part of a user's profile.

I think the comprimise is exactly that... put it in the profile, and remove it from the forum.

Cheers

pollywoggles
12-19-2004, 10:31 AM
I've actually liked the post count... but since the average number of posts for the other ten people who've posted on this thread is 994... I think I'll just shut my little newbie mouth... :-)

BigJay
12-31-2004, 04:11 PM
I assume you are talking about eatpoo where I noticed my post count vanished one day.

To me the advice and what people discuss tell me if a person is worth listening to. I never go by post counts since after a few years I see the same people wandering between various forums.

To really know a person I usually just follow the link to their website and take a look.

Also the reason they drop post count on eatpoo was abuse of post counts.

So what I am saying is it doesn't matter to me if they go or stay

Stahlberg
12-31-2004, 06:16 PM
A person who registers only to provoke arguments will be discovered by their words and not by the number of their posts. A person who registers only to provoke argument will be discovered by his join date, his post count and by his words, all together. And, in some cases, also by the name, sig, domain name, email adress, website... Every little bit of information helps.
It reduces anonymity - some people like the anonymity, but I don't think it's good in the long run.
In any case - most steady lurkers will soon make their own subconscious minds up about Who's Who and who might have a lot of posts. I think the post count matters very little in this regard. With or without post counts, a forum can be an intimidating place.

People with a post count of 4 might actually be professional artists with 15 years experience. And if he posts well I'd soon notice that about him.
This is how we work when evaluating strangers. Some tentative pre-judging going by the exterior, by statistics based on previous experience... then we adjust our evaluation as we interact and get to know them better.

Similarly, a person with 4,000 posts just might have been fired and decided to flame the CGTalk community because they are bitter. Itís happened before it will happen again. (Not very often though.)
Hm, I think you just made a point for why we should keep the post count.
We look at his and say: "Wow, 4000 good posts, then he blows up like this, poor guy must have lost his job or something..." Then we open a dialogue about it, maybe extend some comfort. Instead of, if we don't see his post count, and he gets flamed by everybody, flames back, and eventually gets banned. :)


Furthermore, your attitude toward the post count just might be exactly the reason why some people register but donít post at all. They are afraid of being ignored, criticized, ostracized, etc.
If there's someone that scared of posting, how is getting rid of the post count going to make a big difference? As I said, forums can be intimidating in all sorts of ways that have nothing to do with post count.

Rodi
01-02-2005, 02:01 AM
I personally think the post count is an unnecessary barrier. It just doesn't mean much, I'd rather not see it and not have it shown, maybe give us option to have it visible.

mummey
01-04-2005, 11:07 AM
The combination of post count and join date is a 'reasonable' way to find out how long someone has actively been using CGTalk. To get a better idea one can simply click on the person's name and look at the person's previous posts.

Newbie's may not yet know that one can search the person's previous posts in this way. For them, the post count and join date may mean the difference between who's giving them good advice and who's feeding them horses***.

Granted, its appeared you've come up with some 'What if' cases of people abusing this practise, but if any of those really happened chances are the mods would ban them before it got too far out of hand. In general, I just don't see any good reasons to get rid of post count.

Edit: On the issue of whether high post counts are givin the benefit of the doubt, it usually is just a coincidence. More often than not its a case where we've simply gotten to know a person better by chatting with him/her on CGTalk. :)

If you feel a little out of the loop:
irc://irc.freenode.net
channel: #cgtalk
This is unofficial, but some people that hang out of cgtalk also come here.

KolbyJukes
01-09-2005, 11:24 PM
They cited the post count as the reason for not posting. It made them feel insecure about their advice. In all honesty, it makes sense because as humans we tend to judge the experience of the advice by the number of posts we see theyíve accumulated.honestly...they're likely not professionals if post counts make them feel insecure.

I mean, I don't really care that much, I don't judge people by posts i judge them by their work - I honestly wouldn't care if we stopped displaying them, but if we're eliminating post counts just to make shy members feel more secure, I say don't bother. I haven't seen any people around here who go for the 20k a year postcount, anybody who is that immature is gonna get board and move on after a couple of months.

-K.

DevilHacker
01-10-2005, 12:41 AM
I personally like the post count. I donít judge peoples ability by it, but peopleís commitment to this community. By just reading replies you can usually tell who knows what there talking about without even looking at there post count. IMO, I think the majority of CGTalk likes the post count, and if they took it down it would disappoint a lot of us. Even if they did remove the post count, how far will people with low post counts take this? I can just hear people saying that CGTalk should remove awards also, because it shows how skilled those few award winners are over others?! But really, I donít think this should become a big issue. If you are that worried about the post count; do something about it! Give back to the community by sharing your knowledge.

-Have a good day no matter were you are, DevilHacker

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