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sebek27
12-02-2004, 04:06 PM
i've played with the demo for almost a month. I find rigging/animating tools very good. Modeling still so so, I can model a lot faster in LW/C4D and even in Max.. yup Max and I just can't comprehend how some of you can texture/surface in XSI.. rendertree is just so complex and I still can't find a good tutorial for beginners on understanding how the whole node system works.. also there are many surface presets that come with c4d and are easy to edit/configure - c4d lacks rigging/animation tools so that's why i'm interested in xsi but I really want to do everything in one app

RayenD
12-02-2004, 04:10 PM
I suggest reading the manual and doing step by step (not skipping anything) basic tutorials provided by softimage. I think you can download it from softimage.com

Also edharris.com should have Kim Aldis tutorials on texturing in XSI.

sebek27
12-02-2004, 04:12 PM
can i download the manual somewhere since I have the demo version ?

StephanD
12-02-2004, 04:32 PM
Just curious,what aspect of texturing do you find hard in Xsi?I think it rocks!

I wouldn't argue about modeling fast in c4d but let me doubt that it would be the case for everyone though.

About the render tree,I have to disagree.Never used nor had any idea of what was a node based system before using Xsi and I feel quite comfortable to work at that level,in fact,it's amazingly easy and intuitive.

If you're used to texturing outside,really it's not that different plus it gives you much more freedom,on top of that,you look like you know much more about it than I did when I jumped into it so it shouldn't be a problem once you start using it and understanding what the nodes are there for.

good luck

yog
12-02-2004, 04:37 PM
I can understand what your feeling. When I first saw the Render Tree being used on a complex surface I nearly fell out of my chair, there was no way I was ever going to understand it :eek:

However it is well worth persisting with it because once the methodology of the render tree clicks in (seems to come suddenly) you really get a feeling for what can be achieved with it. Once you start looking at it the right way, a lot of it becomes quite simple. It's like most things in life, with options comes complexity :)

I would fully agree that a lot more tutorials on the render tree (preferably videos) would be very useful though ;)

In the mean time 3D Tutorial (http://www.3dtutorial.com/xsi.php) have a very reasonably priced video tutorial called "Advanced Render Tree Vol.1", in reality it is a beginners guide, but does help a lot with the basic concepts.

Another good idea is to head on over to XSI-Base (http://www.xsibase.com) and have a look through their gallery sections. A lot of people are very willing to post screen grabs of various render trees used in their scenes, and you can learn a heck of a lot by reverse engineering them.

Best of luck :thumbsup:

ThirdEye
12-02-2004, 05:09 PM
XSI is very very easy and the quality of Mental Ray is stunning, not to mention its perfect integration into the app, i love the rendertree, study some tutorials about it and you'll love it too, it's perfect for car materials!

Per-Anders
12-02-2004, 05:15 PM
XSI's texturing really isn't as hard as all that. you don't have to use the render tree for everything. a lot can be done without even visiting that. also xsi does have presets itself (well v4 does). modeling in xsi is purely a case of getting used to it's method of working. once you know that it's very consistent.

sometimes these things take a little while to grasp. but i suggest taking an experimental approach. just playing to find out how it all works. and just do a google search, there are plenty of beginning xsi style tutorials out there.

xsi is certainly the application where you can do it all within one app (if there is any).

sebek27
12-02-2004, 05:19 PM
thanks for all the info; i think i'll get the rendertree vo1 from 3dtutorial.. my 30 day trail expires soon but i've setup my pc so I can reload very quickly and just load the demo for another 30 days

StephanD
12-02-2004, 05:21 PM
Sebek:What sadie says is true,you can texture a whole character/object without having to touch the render tree at all.

Once you applied a shader to a mesh,go in the ppg window and work from there,you can still plug shaders/images into the different channels like you would do in c4d or Max.

Per-Anders
12-02-2004, 05:21 PM
oh and you mentioned the animation. well xsi animation is near perfect when you get to use it. it's just possible that you've not progressed that far yet. but i suggest your best route would be to just dive right in. maybe join in some of the small animation challenges out there. maybe a good way would be to do the animation challenge here on cgtalk, it would be a great way for you to get to know and understand the potential (and i'm sure once you do you'll fall in love with xsi), also the mod who runs the challenge (Sheepfactory) is an xsi user, and i'm sure he'll be able to help you a great deal.

Sil3
12-02-2004, 05:27 PM
C4D is for nerds, now choose :wise:

Janine
12-02-2004, 05:27 PM
don't give in. I found xsi really easy to get into. stick with it, get some good tutorials, and you'll love it. :)

yog
12-02-2004, 05:29 PM
C4D is for ARTISTS, XSI is for nerds, now choose :wise:
Guess I'm a nerd then :sad:

...... but I've known that for a while :D

StephanD
12-02-2004, 05:32 PM
XSI is for nerds, now choose :wise:

Good one. :D

Although that did sound disturbingly serious :wise:

Sil3
12-02-2004, 05:32 PM
LOL... although it seems strange me saying this, but some of u gott it didnīt ya ;)

StephanD
12-02-2004, 05:39 PM
thanks for all the info; i think i'll get the rendertree vo1 from 3dtutorial.. my 30 day trail expires soon but i've setup my pc so I can reload very quickly and just load the demo for another 30 days

I guess it's a good time to download the 4.2 update(demo),I'm pretty sure it 'starts over'
but don't quote me on that.

ThE_JacO
12-02-2004, 05:54 PM
looks like over the next day I'll have to ask enforcing of a ban on Per and Janine, not to mention 3rdeye has good chances to be the first mod ever to be banned from CGTalk...

you're all fired!

Janine
12-02-2004, 05:58 PM
looks like over the next day I'll have to ask enforcing of a ban on Per and Janine, not to mention 3rdeye has good chances to be the first mod ever to be banned from CGTalk...

you're all fired! Hmm? Yes? :)

ThirdEye
12-02-2004, 05:59 PM
looks like over the next day I'll have to ask enforcing of a ban on Per and Janine, not to mention 3rdeye has good chances to be the first mod ever to be banned from CGTalk...

you're all fired!

Noooooooou, we likeeeeeeee it in here!

Sil3
12-02-2004, 06:00 PM
Nice try with the post editing Third...but someone already replyed and posted my TRUE post hahahaha OWNED! :twisted:

imashination
12-02-2004, 06:00 PM
*Mash summons a Keltzur, Level 8*

MJV
12-02-2004, 06:01 PM
LOL... although it seems strange me saying this, but some of u gott it didnīt ya ;)
I think we're all bozos on this bus.

StephanD
12-02-2004, 06:12 PM
but i've setup my pc so I can reload very quickly and just load the demo for another 30 days

Wait a minute...Did you mean you installed Xsi and made an image of your Os to be able to reach beyond the 30 days limit?

ThE_JacO
12-02-2004, 06:17 PM
*Mash summons a Keltzur, Level 8*
that's a bannable offence.

mash... get out of the booth.

JDex
12-02-2004, 06:21 PM
ThE_JacO is banned for banning everyone. More Cowbell!

GavinG
12-02-2004, 07:14 PM
Again with the cowbell!? I've said it before, and I'll say it again...I've got a fever and the only cure is more cowbell!!

Gav

ThirdEye
12-02-2004, 07:26 PM
*Mash summons a Keltzur, Level 8*
a keltuzar you mean? :p

Raffaele: i think we should point everyone to our fav trailer ever :D

Leebre
12-02-2004, 09:11 PM
Hey mdme_sadie, do you use XSI or C4D more? Considering all the plug-in work you do for C4D I would assume that is where most of your time is spent. I'm trying to decide what direction I will take when moving to a commercial license (which is right now). I really like C4D (especially due to StormTracer!) but my main focus is CA...and that's a major weakness with Cinema. Plus the upgrade cost is steep, $1500.

Now that Avid has released Foundation for sub $500 I'm finding it very hard to pass by...especially considering all of features they kept in it. I don't suppose there's any plan to port ST to XSI? :D How powerful is XSI's particle system in comparison to Thinking Particles btw?

Currently I'm trying to decide between C4D, XSI, and messiah:Studio. C4D has pretty much dropped out of the running...hell, if ST and TP weren't factors it wouldn't even be in the running I don't think. I can pick up a copy of messiah from someone for about $600. So really, it's between that and XSI. I don't necessarily need my app to have modelling capabilties. There's lots of extremely powerful and inexpensive (or free) modelers out there. Really it boils down to which one has the most powerful CA tools. messiah's rendering engine produces some pretty stunning results and it integrates very well with ZBrush which I also use.

Decisions, decisions! Suggestions anyone?

wmendez
12-03-2004, 05:41 AM
can i download the manual somewhere since I have the demo version ?
You need an account with Softiamge
http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v42/Documentation/

wmendez
12-03-2004, 05:41 AM
ThE_JacO is banned for banning everyone. More Cowbell!
Jaco =CGTALK Enforcer!:)

Lique
12-03-2004, 06:05 AM
have the same problem here, modelling in xsi is a no problem really, but texturing is like a different world for me. Kinda hard to follow the tutorial from the dvd and pdf. So I thought reading the manual from the beginning would help me to get the basic understanding. Bear in mind that i had only texturing experience in LW which i think is so direct and different from others such as xsi/max/maya.

lucid_polygon
12-03-2004, 06:53 AM
I am an XSI n00b too. I recently purchased this tutorial from Mesmer and Everything makes so much sense now in regards to rendering.


https://www.mesmer.com/shop/products.php?pid=108


By the way I am not employed , advertising, or have any relation to Mesmer. I was searching up and down to find a decent tutorial to teach me about the render tree and stumbled across that one. I haven't finished about 1/2 of the tutorials, but I am now able to render with no difficulties whatsoever.

Hope this helps.

Ablefish
12-03-2004, 06:59 AM
One thing that might help - go to the Help->Online Guides and expand the Shaders, Lights and Camera's "Book". The very last Chapter is called "Render Tree Examples". There's 15 different trees with an explanation of what each node is doing in each case.

I remember this being a big help when I was first trying to wrap my head around the render tree. And don't forget that in the property page of every node is a "?" button which will give you context help. At the bottom of many of the help files is a description of how the node might be used.

Hope that helps,

Rabid pitbull
12-03-2004, 07:27 AM
One thing that might help - go to the Help->Online Guides and expand the Shaders, Lights and Camera's "Book". The very last Chapter is called "Render Tree Examples". There's 15 different trees with an explanation of what each node is doing in each case.

I remember this being a big help when I was first trying to wrap my head around the render tree. And don't forget that in the property page of every node is a "?" button which will give you context help. At the bottom of many of the help files is a description of how the node might be used.

Hope that helps,
Is this available to foundation?? When I try this it takes me to "my documents" directory which does not contain this book. Is this on the content cd, or downloadable? Ablefish i am currently going through your traing series definitly clearing up some of the nagging questions, good stuff. I havent gotten to your rendertree content yet though.

Ablefish
12-03-2004, 07:33 AM
Hmmm... That's one of the basic manuals so I would expect that Foundation users would have access to it. It may be a matter of having to download it seperately and then pointing the Help menu to where it is installed. Sorry I don't know the specifics with Foundation.

Glad you're enjoying the lessons, thanks for the support! :)

jorgevaldes
12-03-2004, 01:59 PM
Is this available to foundation?? When I try this it takes me to "my documents" directory which does not contain this book. Is this on the content cd, or downloadable? Ablefish i am currently going through your traing series definitly clearing up some of the nagging questions, good stuff. I havent gotten to your rendertree content yet though.
Yes it is, but you need to install it from the Documentation CD, if Iīm not mistaken.

Rabid pitbull
12-03-2004, 06:09 PM
Ok thank you both, I had installed it already just didnt have the links set right. XSI may be difficult to learn, but there are plenty of included resources to help. Also plenty of available help online for free, and for small fees the video lessons available at 3d tutorials and others are great. I personally have been going through the lessons by Ablefish from 3dtutorials that covers the basic principles of XSI, and it is very good for those coming from another 3d package like me. I highly recommend it for anyone in a similiar situation who wants to get up to speed fast.

Atyss
12-03-2004, 08:30 PM
Jaco =CGTALK Enforcer!:) http://www.xsibase.com/forum/YaBBImages/cool.gif

JDex
12-04-2004, 03:24 AM
Whoa... I gotta pull my eyes away from XSI more often... I just put together that Ablefish is Jean-Paul... :D

Serial
12-17-2004, 11:46 AM
stupid opera, i tough that i was still reading the tips for xsi topic. Instead of that i was reading this one and thinking "wtf, great tips definetly :) "

well, about complexity of xsi, it's not. of course if you're using xsi and thinking like max it's pretty hard. or if you don't know the structure how the things work and get used to it, yes it is complex and hard. What everyone should 1st time they grab xsi is read trough the tutorials and manuals provided by softimage. they're are the bestest out there for beginners and explains things just how they are.

when i moved from max to xsi about 2 years ago, i was totally outside and xsi felt stupid program because how the tools worked out. then i took the manual and started learning, more i read more i liked and learned.

well, that's just my opinion

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