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Leonard
12-02-2004, 02:48 AM
Just posted the scoop on CGNetworks:

Discreet (http://www.discreet.com/) has announced that 3ds max 7 subscription members will have cloth simulation abilities built into its next update. Called Cloth Extension, this 3D modeling addition delivers a cloth simulation system based on Size8 Software’s ClothFX, which was formerly known as Stitch. ClothFX is still available to purchase as a plug-in from Turbo Squid (http://www.turbosquid.com/), however, Discreet Subscription (http://www4.discreet.com/subscription/) customers will enjoy the software integrated into 3ds max as an update in January 2005.

>> ClothFX Integrated into 3ds max << (http://www.cgnetworks.com/story.php?story_id=2620)

PyRoT
12-02-2004, 03:33 AM
Discreet is really pushing forward. I wont be suprised if all that money it has is being used to create spectacular things. The tactic of buying tested and proven plugins and intergrating them into 3D max is absolute genius.

erilaz
12-02-2004, 03:39 AM
I suppose the obvious question now is WHEN?:D

captainchet
12-02-2004, 03:45 AM
I agree, this is a great move on max's part. However, i hope they improve some of the pitfalls of ClothFX.

ngrava
12-02-2004, 03:59 AM
I agree, this is a great move on max's part. However, i hope they improve some of the pitfalls of ClothFX.No kidding! Like no inter-cloth collisions! WTF?!

-=GB=-

PyRoT
12-02-2004, 04:00 AM
I agree, this is a great move on max's part. However, i hope they improve some of the pitfalls of ClothFX. Wouldn't count on that. Hopefully these pitfalls aren't too big a deal.
Next, I believe that imitating some basic plugins (Chameleon?) and / or integrating Shag Hair is a must.
Following from that, even though I would love it, Afterburn. Ideally, they could offer the plugins as an extra -add-on for a discounted retail price.

Tomek

dominicqwek
12-02-2004, 05:09 AM
Finally.... now we can wait for hair to be integrated.

PyRoT
12-02-2004, 05:11 AM
If this cloth thing doesn't have inter-cloth collisions then it is essentially useless. This s because reactor cloth is better then this NEW intergrated cloth stuff.

I kind of feel sorry for Discreet though. They would have made 3Ds Max much better if Kinetix didn't have it for all taht time I think. Plus, no matter what they gives us the constant response will always be "YEY, that is so great. NOW, give us MORE!"

BrandonD
12-02-2004, 09:22 AM
Um, inter-cloth collisions have been supported since the get go. From the documention...

"Full collision detection (including cloth to cloth collisions) can be run, and provides instant feedback on how well your cloth is performing during a simulation..."

Stitch and now ClothFX is pretty hard to beat. It's an entire clothing system from stitching patterns together, to wrapping and simulating. The realtime feature is useful if you want to drap something onto a character without having to pre-sim it into position. Of all the cloth options in MAX I'm glad this is the one they went for.

bentllama
12-02-2004, 09:24 AM
so just more unstable code on top of other unstable code...sounds like a regular MAX update to me...

i will believe its worth when I see it working.

marktsang
12-02-2004, 09:39 AM
whats with all the complaining?

stitch was a powerful and versitile tool, we should be grateful to be recieving it for free, not moaning about it. max 7 was a huge improvment for max in terms of stability and features and adding a cloth simulator based on stitch is just a bonus..

mark

PyRoT
12-02-2004, 10:06 AM
Well good news then. I think some people may still see it all as unstable code due to having used an older 3D max and tend to remember it as that. Or maybe its a little case of confirmation bias.

Tomek

Breinmeester
12-02-2004, 10:34 AM
Finally! Now for some hair.....

fez
12-02-2004, 11:40 AM
Great news! I have had nothing but good experiences with Max 7. The skin wrap and skin morph modifiers offer an amazing production boost.

I purchased Max 7 with subscription but never received any login codes etc.. Am I automatically in the subscription database now or do I need to contact my reseller?

Tughan
12-02-2004, 01:25 PM
What is wrong with Reactor Cloth anyway? I mean... apart from punching your brain, driving you to madness and annoys you to death? Oh... I get it. :)

I was just planing to start making a new sortfilm this month. It'll include cloth simulation. I was thinking about using Reactor for it. But after this, I think I'll wait for ClothFX. :D

marktsang
12-02-2004, 01:41 PM
Great news! I have had nothing but good experiences with Max 7. The skin wrap and skin morph modifiers offer an amazing production boost.

I purchased Max 7 with subscription but never received any login codes etc.. Am I automatically in the subscription database now or do I need to contact my reseller?
you should have recieved a subscription welcom email followed by a subscription code from discreet straight away ( i got mine before i even recieved my copy of max - in fact the same day i payed the reseller )
if you have not heard anything you should contact your reseller!!
mark

cookepuss
12-02-2004, 02:23 PM
Hardly surprising that Discreet would integrate ClothFX. Cloth is the new "it" feature. Maya, Lightwave, Cinema4D, and XSI all have some sort of built-in dedicated cloth simulation system. Kinda figures that 3dsmax would follow. It's partially a competition thing - keeping up with the Jones'. It's partially an integration thing - making 3dsmax your one stop solution. Good for Discreet. Next stop, hair.

PyRoT
12-03-2004, 02:58 AM
Maybe I haven't used Reactor Cloth enough but I think it's quite good. Is it issues with speed or something?

If this ClothFX is like Stitch then that is great. Max doesn't have a proper "cloth-mesh" creator.

cookepuss
12-03-2004, 04:41 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't ClothFX just the new name for Stitch?

SOPLAND
12-03-2004, 08:49 AM
Simulation is not the solution...

BrandonD
12-03-2004, 08:52 AM
Max doesn't have a proper "cloth-mesh" creator.
Ever used the SubDivide Modifier? It makes meshes much more cloth friendly. But if you're talking about stitching together garments, ClothFX is well designed for that.

_mg_
12-03-2004, 01:42 PM
To answer an earlier question, Reactor is not really viable solution for cloth simulation when compared to something like Stitch (as I know it). Reactor is just way too slow for clothing simulation, stitch/clothFXon the other hand, is very quick.

clothFX has always had cloth to cloth simulation / self-collisioning - initially unstable but later much more reliable. Multiple resolutions of garments can be created very easily allowing a low-res initial drape followed by a hi-res final drape.

Staged draping is also useful if your system is having difficulty solving the sim. You can drape the body panels then the sleeves etc. Really good for getting that v. important initial drape.

With judicious use of meshsmooth and a reasonably lo-res base mesh you can create animated cloth relatively quickly.

I tested an earlier version of stitch alongside Maya's Cloth (i use both Max and Maya) and out of the box Stitch was vastly superior - it's garment creation was extremely flexible and easy to use.

Personally, I think it's quite awesome that this is being included as part of the Max offering. I remember paying £600 or so for this plugin when it first arrived on the scene!

Vertizor
12-03-2004, 04:32 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't ClothFX just the new name for Stitch?
I think Shag Hair evolved into ClothFX.


On the topic of integrating plugins into Max, as long as they can do it without raising the base price of Max. From my memory 3DS has always been in the $3,000+ range but I read an Max 7 article that says the integration of CS only raised the base price a little. I'd like to see them do it without raising the base price, because it just makes it that much harder for me to buy :sad:

cookepuss
12-03-2004, 04:36 PM
I think Shag Hair evolved into ClothFX. :) That's wrong. Shag became HairFX and Stitch became ClothFX. I checked it up in a couple of 3D World issues I have sitting here.

Pixelmaestro
12-03-2004, 04:50 PM
I do not understand the reason for the delayed release of the subscription update. Why January? Why not now? Will it take a month to add it to the interface?

charleyc
12-03-2004, 05:42 PM
I do not understand the reason for the delayed release of the subscription update. Why January? Why not now? Will it take a month to add it to the interface?
Most likely. The e-mail I got says it is based on ClothFX, which would imply some sort of change from just the straight plugin (I assume the interface integration into max as you said). I am sure there was/is a period of beta testing as well to assure most of the bugs are worked out.

Vertizor
12-03-2004, 06:31 PM
:) That's wrong. Shag became HairFX and Stitch became ClothFX. I checked it up in a couple of 3D World issues I have sitting here.
LOL OMG. What the hell was I thinking? My brain did the equivalent of going crossed eyed, I think it happened when someone mentioned integrating hair in 3DS Max. This is sooo embarassing.

cookepuss
12-03-2004, 07:43 PM
And you claim to be a know it all. ;)

ThomasMahler
12-03-2004, 09:53 PM
I just watched the tutorial vids on discreets site and I think that's quite impressive - I don't have a lotta experience with Maya Cloth, but I don't think that it's nearly as powerful. Please, correct me if I'm wrong...

Vertizor
12-03-2004, 09:59 PM
And you claim to be a know it all. ;)
I didn't put that "Know it all" title there! It's all correlates to your post count. You seem to have earned a different title though. :hmm: You know people in high places...

arona
12-03-2004, 11:49 PM
clothfx is great. i think for sure its the correct way Discreet is going.
if we compare all these pluginses for Max seperately with their equals in other softwares they are much more powerfull.
if this way comes to a good end and we get all these necessary stuffes in Max, i think be sure that no other software will be comparable with Max.

bentllama
12-04-2004, 12:21 AM
if this way comes to a good end and we get all these necessary stuffes in Max, i think be sure that no other software will be comparable with Max.
except in price point and industry saturation

martinc
12-04-2004, 12:40 AM
except in price point and industry saturation
which package has a better price with advanced cloth? from what i see, you have to step up to the higher priced packages to get this.

Bobo
12-04-2004, 01:13 AM
except in ... industry saturation
Which industry exactly? If you mean movie effects, ok, I see what you mean.
But that is hardly the only or the largest industry 3D packages are used in.

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