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--mi--
11-29-2004, 09:48 PM
Hi all :)
I would like to post my first WIP here :rolleyes: .
PZL P50 was the first Polish fighter in "modern" configuration. It was flown in February 1939 for the first time.
Due to engine production delay it could not be considered operational. At the begining of WW II there was one finished prototype and about 30 unfinished.

I took P50 as a subject because theres no CG visualisations of it that I know about (probobly because of lack of any
kind of documentation). My work would be not only to visualise the object, but to try to make it look like an airplane from the first line with field modifications. It could be made by aproximations of what was in production at that time (PZL P11, PZL P24) and what technology was used in Poland shortly before the war. I will try to do some field constructions like opened gun bays, or borrowed parts from P11... we will see :)

This model is in draft stage. After comparison with four photos of real plane (yes only 4 left - and we can see only part of the windshield, small part of the wing and engine cowling) I came to a conclusion that most of areas should be modeled once more. The plans available on the net could be very inaccurate. Please dont pay attantion on the wings - they are simply placeholders right now.

Please forgive me if I will not respond for a few days - I could be away form the net.

Please share your opinions with me.

cheers

Michal



http://www.rmstudio.pl/upd3b.jpg
http://www.rmstudio.pl/upd3c.jpg
http://www.rmstudio.pl/upd3a.jpg

SimonGibson
11-29-2004, 09:51 PM
nice work so far, no crits for the model as of yet :)

andreas-V
11-29-2004, 11:21 PM
Looks quite good, with exeption of the wing roots which look a bit messy.It is always great when people model unkown and obscure aircraft.
Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

Skyraider3D
11-30-2004, 10:11 PM
Looks very promising so far, Michal! :thumbsup:
And nice choice of subject, for sure!
I like the engine detail.

Some crits, though:
* As Andreas said, the wingroots need some touching up. The trraling edge at that point looks too low-poly too.
* The vertical tailfin looks completely flat. It should have an airfoil shape too and be thicker.
* The gunports look really strange/simplistic
* The canopy frame looks very thin and two-dimensional (make it a little wider and add thickness)

I must say though, I am not too familiar with this plane (I have never seen any photos - only drawings), but the comments I made are most likely valid as they are concerning common features of a typical WW2 plane.

Other than that, keep up the good work! :)

--mi--
11-30-2004, 11:29 PM
Thank you for the kind comments!
Indeed - there are some places where I should invest more work. Especially wingroots and wings shilouette. I have redone wingroots - they are much smoother now. Still need to make correct shape of the wings.

Ronnie - you are absolutely right about vertical stab. I should have noticed this dunring modeling...

Considering gunports I have no idea/image how could they look in reality. This is my guessing game. Maybe you have some ideas after looking at the plans from AirWars?

Definately I will add thicknes to the canopy, but looking at the photo of the canopy struts I think the only part that should be changed is the bottom strut (horizontal one)IMHO. It has to be thicker a lil.


http://www.rmstudio.pl/P50Foto1.jpg

I have added exhaust pipe to the engine cowling and smoothed wingroot.

http://www.rmstudio.pl/upd4wingroot.jpg

All details of the engine (guessing game again) should be corrected - I should to make holes in the fuselage for cylinders.

Thank you all for the comments!

cheers

Michal

Skyraider3D
12-01-2004, 06:45 PM
The canopy is indeed surprisingly thin. About the gunports, they are more like bumps - not cylinders.

Have a look a the artwork here: http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/str003k7.htm (seems you're not the first doing the P.50 in 3D afterall)

The P.50 was inspired on the Seversky P-35 which has similar gunports; also in aerodynamic fairings, but protruding further. On the P.50 they're simple bumps.
http://se_aviation.tripod.com/Seversky_P35A.jpg

I see you found the P.50 photos, by the way. I would really appreciate it if you could e-mail them to me :)

solidesign
12-02-2004, 10:08 AM
Nice work!

It look nice so far... keep it going!!

Skyraider3D
12-11-2004, 11:17 PM
:bounce: We want more! :bounce:



;) :p

--mi--
12-11-2004, 11:24 PM
Thanx for kind words :)

In fact I am working on P50 all the time... A few days back I got very good drawings made by Mr. Cynk and Mr. Klepacki. Simply I have to model everything from the scratch... I will post something when I will reach previous level (I hope it will be soon).

cheers

Michal

didier13
12-11-2004, 11:50 PM
Very promising Michal:thumbsup:

Great job. I'm looking for the next update.

XYZRGB
12-11-2004, 11:56 PM
Ohhh yeahhh .Very nice.

No crits. except those already mentioned. :thumbsup:

Skyraider3D
12-12-2004, 01:54 PM
Hehe, be glad you didn't got these drawings when the model was finished! I had that once (with the Bv 141). Good luck on your second attempt! Can't wait to see it.

Handy.
12-12-2004, 03:34 PM
wow great modeling. looks awesome

gatling044
01-11-2005, 12:19 PM
Great model! I really like the idea to make a good rendering of this rare airplane!

gatling

Skyraider3D
05-10-2005, 08:10 PM
WE WANT MORE :bounce: :deal: :D

Lemog
06-14-2005, 05:57 AM
mmmh yeah, very original choice for this airplane Michal, really...

I just find a photo of the prototype P.Z.L. P50 Jastrzab, and it appear very different... I don't know it very well, it exist many prototypes or you decided to make a production aircraft ?

http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/air/pl/pzl/04410.jpg

I send you some courage to finish your aiplane Michal :thumbsup: seeya

--mi--
06-14-2005, 07:37 AM
Thank you for ecouragement!
I really would like to finish P50 quickly, but the subject is very demanding. Most of the time I am researching for more materials. In fact apart of four photos we dont have anything. There are no original blueprints at all.
The picture you have found is press material which is produced before the war and it is a painting.
The most succesfull guess comes from Mr. Klepacki with the side plan.

http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73211

Right now I am looking for the gear plans from Skoda.

thank you all cheers

Michal

Lemog
06-14-2005, 07:56 AM
Thanks for precisions :thumbsup: I try to find in my old magazines of this time if I can find more informations for you... maybe, but nothing sure, because they are French magazines of before war...

I understand very well about the long time of realization... more of one year for my dewoitine :banghead: hahahaha

Silgrin
03-29-2006, 12:26 PM
Hello, --mi-- !

Seems we live next to each other in Warsaw but met "here" :scream: I`m afraid your thread is inactive from a bit of time :p Hope I will see sth in future...

Regarding PZL P.50, several months ago main aviation magazines in Poland published new, recently found photos of this plane!!! It looked far different from the previous drawings and even different from the fragments of the prototype visible on the previous photos. I`m afraid you will have to re-model your mesh again...

BTW, I like your avatar very much ;) P.11 was one of my favourite planes when I was keen on this topic. Are you going to model it as well?

--mi--
03-29-2006, 01:12 PM
Hello Henryk :)
Thanx for your kind words. Right now I am working on fourth edition of P50. Being experienced in changing everything in this 3d model I have to be sure to have the most accurate and up to date informations. I will be in touch with the people who knows everything or most about the history of this plane.

As far as P11 goes - here is 60% finished 3D model.

cheers

Michal

Silgrin
03-29-2006, 02:19 PM
"the people who knows everything or most about the history of this plane"

Who are they!?!

And good luck with your P.11! It looks really decent especially as for a 60% WIP ;) Actually, I haven`t seen so good P.11 3D CG before. Maybe some tut after finishing?

--mi--
03-30-2006, 08:29 PM
Who are they!?!


I would like to revail this a bit later when they will have a chance to approve such "announcement".
Regarding P11 I want to thank you for encouragement. I will have to finish the model and textures and maybe it will take part in some bigger animation.

cheers
Michal

Skyraider3D
03-30-2006, 09:22 PM
Go on, show us a sneak peek of your new P.50 :) We've been waiting for years!

P.11 is looking good!
I hope you'll also do the P.38 some day. Love that plane!

--mi--
03-31-2006, 06:34 AM
Hello Ronnie :)
Indeed the work on P50 isnt very quick. Sorry for lack of updates. Now there is only draft block model to check the proportions in the photos from the latest news. I have found almost all plans innacurate. I will try to use a lil photogrametry to produce right ones. I am working on two types "Typ I" and "Typ II" as depicted below.

http://www.rmstudio.pl/1.jpg

cheers

Michal

Silgrin
03-31-2006, 06:44 AM
"maybe it will take part in some bigger animation"

Sounds excellent!! Just can`t wait.

Regarding Jastrzab, I like the right type much more. It seems to reflect the serial version as compared to the last photos, but the back side window has the shape from the prototype. Moreove, both side glass pieces (canopy and that behind the cockpit) end too low as for me-the canopy and the back window go very deep downwards. It seems all the upper surface of the fuselage behind the cockpit is placed too low, which is visible on the tail of the left ("prototype") model. I`d expect the fuselage to be much thicker, especially it could be better for its strength (and aerodynamics of the prototype). In all plans and photos, Jastrzab looked rather "fat":).

Regarding the fact many PZL plans were microfilmed and hidden, just imagine what would happen if they were found!! You would have to re-model your great mesh again! :D

Good luck! Waiting for more!

Skyraider3D
03-31-2006, 08:39 AM
Looks great!
The gunports and engine cowling look a bit strange though.
Looking forward to seeing it progress :)

Silgrin
03-31-2006, 01:30 PM
Yes, the gunports do look strange. As far as I could recognize from earlier plans and from other planes, they always had blunt, drop-shaped fronts and the openings for the guns were not far biger than the gun diameter (see P.24, for example). If they were gunports at all (I`ve never found any information what was the actual function of these drop-shaped structures on the Hawk nose), I`d expect them to have blunt front with only a very narrow opening for the guns themselves with very little space to allow their vibration. Actually, on all drawings they were fully closed.

Waiting for more,

Silgrin

Rosso12
08-07-2006, 05:00 PM
HI
I'm a player of CFS3 and IL-2 this PZL P50 is beautiful!
Is it for the game "IL-2" ?
Best Regards Rosso_12

Rosso12
08-07-2006, 08:04 PM
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Rosso12
01-26-2007, 12:05 PM
My project a submarine Orzeł
Best Regards Angelo

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