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Grugi
11-27-2004, 07:49 PM
New Zbrush2 Release Preview movies. Damn that looks great :)

http://pixologic.com/zbrush/media_links/movies2.html


More infos on zbrush-central http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=022256

Have fun :)

http://www.grugi.com/ZPreview3.jpg

-Grugi

JDex
11-27-2004, 09:19 PM
Very nice... now, perhaps a DEMO!!! Ahhggggg!

Para
11-27-2004, 09:29 PM
Watched the vid, I give this new soon-to-come update a rating of http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//happy/bigok.gif

d0c
11-27-2004, 09:34 PM
well WOW i thought the Topology brush was great. but this surface modelling RIG seems like the better tool out of the two. by alot

KolbyJukes
11-27-2004, 09:35 PM
yeah the topology brush thing seems like a step in the right direction.

Grugi
11-27-2004, 10:15 PM
Yes, the topologybrush in silo was a good step in that direction,but this "topo-sphere" looks much better because you can edit the cage on the fly. I think cyslice has a similar tool?

The sphere-rig looks also impressive with the ability to simply draw a new mesh over it :)

This version will be a must have for sure :)
Letīs see what they show us in the next weeks/months

SheepFactory
11-27-2004, 10:15 PM
simply amazing :eek:

any estimate on when its coming out?

Grugi
11-27-2004, 10:22 PM
Havenīt read anything yet about a release date.

They may tell us more within the next days, and hopefully show new videos :love:

Atwooki
11-27-2004, 10:33 PM
Truly incredible stuff - can't wait to get my hands on it :bounce:

Atwooki

Mahlikus
11-27-2004, 10:42 PM
Yep, truly amazing. Pixologic ROCKS!
Topology ZBrush!

skello
11-27-2004, 11:10 PM
Sweet!.. Maybe we'll be lucky to get holiday pricing on Z2 as well:thumbsup:

-Vormav-
11-27-2004, 11:12 PM
Very impressive... Hope the price of zbrush doesn't jump much when they add the update. :)

Joebount
11-27-2004, 11:22 PM
/me is droolong on the floor waiting for the next update ... :drool:

Mahlikus
11-27-2004, 11:29 PM
Very impressive... Hope the price of zbrush doesn't jump much when they add the update. :)
Better buy it now and save some money then hu?
The upgrade is free to all registered users you know...

-Vormav-
11-27-2004, 11:33 PM
Definitely would if I could. But I won't have the money for a few more months. =x

ThomasMahler
11-27-2004, 11:46 PM
GEEZ!

Pixolator has done it again, that's just awesome! I agree with you guys, the Topology Brush has been a cool thing, but this feature here looks far easier to use and is built directly into ZBrush (Hell, I'd have already loved the Pixologic guys if they'd have create something similar to the Topology Brush, but this really IS fantastic!). I'd love to get my hands on these tools... Way to go, Pixologic, I'm really excited right now... Guess I won't be able to sleep tonight! ;)

rendermania
11-27-2004, 11:50 PM
somebody asked this in another thread elsewhere on Cgtalk, but does anyone know if you can export those zsphere rigs (rhino example) to FBX format or similar? The weighting/deformation looks quite sweet (obviously... its a feature demo). It would be pretty awesome if you could get your organic model AND the basic rig/weighting for it from Zbrush. Hope they implement that if they haven't thought of it already.

leigh
11-27-2004, 11:53 PM
The upgrade is free to all registered users you know...

:buttrock:

This update certainly looks cool! Can't wait to get my hands on it :D

Grugi
11-28-2004, 12:08 AM
If every update from these guys is so impressive what can we await from Zbrush3 ;)

They always come up with such great new tools :D

retinajoy
11-28-2004, 12:31 AM
Watched the videos. FANTASTIC!

JDex
11-28-2004, 12:33 AM
Better buy it now and save some money then hu?
The upgrade is free to all registered users you know...
I'd be happy to... if I could actually try it and see if the interface/workflow has improved enough to be comfortable...

Ollarin
11-28-2004, 12:36 AM
Holy muffins! That was awesome!

That Zsphere movie was awesome, it rigged the mesh so perfectly...It almost takes the joy out of rigging (Shouting at the computer and throwing the mouse when the mesh doesn't deform right, and then going back to paint the weights. :p) I like rigging. :(

Zbrush 3 is going to kick butt! :D

kromekat
11-28-2004, 01:09 AM
I agree with JDex - cool! - but without a V2 demo, it's a leap of faith - I know what it can do, but I have no idea whether I will like the workflow - even so, I should be able to try before I buy - what makes ZBrush so different that it has no up to date demo so many months after its release?

Mahlikus
11-28-2004, 01:43 AM
As much as I LOVE Pixologic..I have to agree that the lack of a demo certainly isn't helping with sales. Don't get me wrong, I know several who bought it on faith and are not disappointed. They are just wicked busy aking sure everythinig it tip top.
One thing I can assume, they are probably waiting to make the final changes to Z2 (hence the update) before a demo is released.

JDex
11-28-2004, 01:59 AM
My understanding of the "party line" (as was emailed to me, and seen on the site) was along the lines of Demo to be released in conjunction with Mac version. :rolleyes:

Umm... wasn't that a few months ago...

Now I am in a pickle... I am quickly falling in love with Darktree Shaders (thanks to a demo and the new XSI simbiont)... It is whispering softly into my ear for me to spend the money I currently have earmarked for a seat of ZB2 or a second seat of XSI FND... Like the choice already wasn't hard enough. GRRR!!!

richcz3
11-28-2004, 05:58 AM
Amazing posing abilities and topology tools.

Now. The question is when?

Martin_G_3D
11-28-2004, 08:21 AM
I am truly amazed by these videos. Pixologic is doing a great job!

DanSilverman
11-28-2004, 02:05 PM
I own ZBrush 2 and I can say that the UI is a great advancement over the previous ZBrush version. I will say that I still do not have a full grasp of the application and that may be mainly to time constraints as I am, frankly, too busy to really learn it. Having said that, I wish that Pixologic would somehow combine a traditional modeler in with all their super-cool tools. In other words, keep ZBrush as it is and add in a modeler like Silo. I find it so much easier to model in another package and then bring the model into ZBrush then to model from the ground up in ZBrush. I would love if I at least had the choice to model the "traditional" way as well as the ZBrush way.

rendermania
11-28-2004, 05:51 PM
That, or make a cut down plugin version of just the sculpting tools that can sit on top of other CG packages (e.g. zap the model over into its own sculpting window, then zap it back).
Some rudimentary polytools would indeed be nice as well.

thematt
11-28-2004, 06:06 PM
OMG !!!

It's totaly awesome...I'm sold.

I'll make my company order zbrush that seems such an advanceemnt in term of modeling..pffff



cheers

Grugi
11-28-2004, 06:17 PM
Iīm wondering if we will be able to put the displacement from the hires mesh onto the new drawn lowpoly-cage. It seems it will only be used to deform the hires-mesh.
If it is possible, hell, why does anybody need a polymodeller for organic stuff again?! ;)

cheers

-Grugi

Flo
11-28-2004, 09:47 PM
Iīm wondering if we will be able to put the displacement from the hires mesh onto the new drawn lowpoly-cage. It seems it will only be used to deform the hires-mesh.

yep, I`m wondering about this too.....also if you can extract from the new surface to the `old` highRes one. And if you get a poly cage or a subdee cage (which will lie on the surface after it gor smoothed) ?

great stuff anyway !
-Flo

jason-slab
11-29-2004, 08:33 AM
man these guys are just doing it right, i can't wait to see this release in action!

|jason

StephanD
11-29-2004, 01:10 PM
Wonderful move by Pixologic.

Can't wait for that upgrade.

elvis75k
11-29-2004, 05:25 PM
...OMG!! The rigging feature it's cool.. I knew it, i'm wasting my time to rig with maya! (i'm not serious of course). :scream:

Frenchy Pilou
11-29-2004, 06:15 PM
...more crazzy from previous up to the next version :scream:

3dtutorial
11-29-2004, 06:21 PM
Wow -- crazy cool stuff.

I guess I know what I will be buying this X-Mas :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Joe

TraceR
11-29-2004, 06:37 PM
yea, this looks like a great release. Can't wait. :bounce:

Keep it up Pixologic!

tlggungor
11-29-2004, 06:49 PM
yes yes yes :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:



Would you like to see my 2D Challenge Concepts and Cities

DaddyMack
11-29-2004, 07:09 PM
the zbrush update just looks insane :argh:
can't wait

mmkelly011881
11-29-2004, 07:59 PM
was reading... going NONONO!!! till i noticed this

"Free Update: The next ZBrush update will be made available as a free update to all registered ZBrush users (inclucing users who will register between now and the release of the next update)!"

:bounce:

easy
11-29-2004, 08:04 PM
Iīm wondering if we will be able to put the displacement from the hires mesh onto the new drawn lowpoly-cage. It seems it will only be used to deform the hires-mesh.
If it is possible, hell, why does anybody need a polymodeller for organic stuff again?! ;)

cheers

-Grugi
I read somewhere on the pixologic site that they where making some code updates to the displacement and normal maps generation, maybe something to do with it.

arvid
11-29-2004, 09:37 PM
pixologic.com seems to be down:shrug:any mirrors or anything?

Grugi
11-29-2004, 10:06 PM
Links are working fine for me. Optional you might try these links posted by Mahlikus the black on zbrush-central click (http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=22256&page=2&pp=15)

-Grugi

onlooker
11-29-2004, 10:22 PM
Demo to be released in conjunction with Mac version.


Thats not true. What he said was he would not start the demo until after the Mac version was finished. But, I'd rather he just keep forgetting the demo, and keep coding, and offering free upgrades to registered users. :)

lazynok
11-29-2004, 10:32 PM
OH MY GOD those were amazing. makes me never want to touch lightwavew again.

JDex
11-29-2004, 10:38 PM
Thats not true. What he said was he would not start the demo until after the Mac version was finished. But, I'd rather he just keep forgetting the demo, and keep coding, and offering free upgrades to registered users. :)
Well... as I said, the way I understood it... and the email I recieved was what gave me the impression (wish I hadn't trashed it). Either way, I am quite interested with where the development is going and am glad to see consistent, active development... I just won't become a Zuser, until I can try it myself... which means at least one less sold seat of Zbrush.

rawgon
11-29-2004, 11:07 PM
Zbrush2 is great new way for modeling, now its even better! it shows up the future:scream:

ngrava
11-29-2004, 11:24 PM
Oh my F**king GOD!!! This is just too amazing... I don't know what to say. Resurfacing meshes and Z-Spheres... Arbitrarily too!! Just totally amazing. I knew something like this was possible but it's something that you suggest to a programmer and they just look at you and say "Yeah right." or "Why would you need to do that?" These guys aren't pushing the envelope... They went past it a while ago and are just following whatever fancy they have. ;D

One thing I was thinking about was how this is such a cool tool for rigging but it's not even meant to be. I think it's time that plug in developers made a plug in for the animation programs that reads the Z-Brush file and uses that as the rig (skeleton) and skin data together. Did you guys see how the chest moved with the arms in that one video? Whoever writes a plug in like this is going to have to figure out how to get the rig to duplicate the same articulation in Z-Brush.

Massive props to the Z-Brush teem. I can't wait to get my hands on it.

-=GB=-

vlad74
11-29-2004, 11:27 PM
ZBrush is already part of my brain. And it is getting bigger and biger. ;)

Mahlikus
11-30-2004, 12:17 AM
These guys aren't pushing the envelope... They went past it a while ago and are just following whatever fancy they have. ;D

There's an envelope? :D :thumbsup:

kromekat
11-30-2004, 02:23 AM
There's an envelope? :D :thumbsup:

I think pixologic signed, sealed and delivered it a while back - now they are just transcribing it to us bit by bit! :cool:

xzevlin
11-30-2004, 03:17 AM
I just won't become a Zuser, until I can try it myself... which means at least one less sold seat of Zbrush.
I'm in that camp too, and I'm sure there are a lot more of us. The things you can do with Zbrush have me convinced it's capable of a lot, but my bad experiences with 1.55's interface stops me from buying 2 until I can try it.

Maybe we should write an open letter/petition to Pixologic asking for a demo version. If we get enough people to sign it, maybe they'll respond.

tjnyc
11-30-2004, 03:47 AM
I too wasn't a fan of the UI in Zbrush in 1.55, but I still bought 2.0, and after working with Zbrush, I am still not a fan of the UI, but with 2.0 the positives far out weigh the negatives. This upcoming update looks amazing, I just hope they have implemented painting across Multi-UVs.


Cheers,

Larrikin
11-30-2004, 04:11 AM
Maybe we should write an open letter/petition to Pixologic asking for a demo version. If we get enough people to sign it, maybe they'll respond.

I don't know if a demo would increase sales, it will be cracked within a month.
The fantastic innovations Pixologic are comming out with and word of mouth might be better for sales. I for one bought it, and love it!

pixolsoftware
11-30-2004, 04:18 AM
Hi Guys,

I think there's two real good reasons to get excited:

1. These features look fantastic and help you reduce the cost of production - Pixologic keep pouring in more features into ZBrush which means you needs less tools to get the job done, and get it done faster.

2. They continue to offer these innovations to existing users - at no cost!

Get on board the ZBrush train - there is no better time!

If you are baed in Australia and are thinking of getting into ZBrush, contact Pixol Software to arrange your purchase today!

www.pixol.com.au (http://www.pixol.com.au)

Regards,
Paul

DanSilverman
11-30-2004, 07:27 AM
I just hope they have implemented painting across Multi-UVs.
I am with you on this one. This is one big gripe that I have about ZBrush at the moment.

The second thing is that, while the videos look awesome, I am wondering how I would use these wonderful mesh deformations. For example, how would I get these animations out of ZBrush to use in another application or in a real-time 3D game? I cannot see that you could. Therefore what we have here is a glorified posing tool (which is really cool, btw).

Their form of the "topology" tool is really cool, though :) .

pixolsoftware
11-30-2004, 08:26 AM
Hi Dan,

I don't believe (and stand to be corrected by Pixologic) that the posing tools within ZBrush are designed for exporting out to another program.

However, I can see that the posing tools will help you with painting your objects, by allowing you refigure for better access to secudled parts of your characters etc.

No doubt other users will find other uses as well.


Regards,
Paul

arvid
11-30-2004, 09:09 AM
Okay - rigging it to be able to paint narrow spots on the mesh, that I can understand, but other than that I don't really see how any of this could be used for anything other than still images entierly created in ZB, or as a toy. v2 of ZB has fantastic displacement painting tools, but it's still a diamond in the rough, I wish ZB would be developed into a pure 3D displacement painter (with a more streamlined workflow), the modelling - while interesting as a concept - really doesn't do it for me, and rigging is useless if you can't export and animate. Likewise with the create-mesh-based-on-mesh thing in the video, didn't he just create a copy of the mesh he already had?

Whats the fuzz about? :shrug:

pixolsoftware
11-30-2004, 09:26 AM
Hi opacity,

"Okay - rigging it to be able to paint narrow spots on the mesh, that I can understand, but other than that I don't really see how any of this could be used for anything other than still images entierly created in ZB".

Yes, it can be used for posing where the end result is within ZBrush - which is perfectly legitimate. Many artists use ZBrush for 2D work as well, not only for exporting to other 3D applications.


"I wish ZB would be developed into a pure 3D displacement painter (with a more streamlined workflow)"

I think you will be hard pressed to find something else that allows you to add details as quick as ZBrush does.

"Likewise with the create-mesh-based-on-mesh thing in the video, didn't he just create a copy of the mesh he already had?"
Actually, what he did in this particular video was re-typologise the geometry. Yuo see, with ZBrush, you can get a decent typology, buy it may not be perfect for animation. Studios that are using ZBrush today use it initially to build the form of their character, then export it and "trace" a new typology over the top. With this tool, you can redo your typology directly within ZBrush.


Regards,
Paul

slow67
11-30-2004, 09:30 AM
This going to be great for morph targets

DanSilverman
11-30-2004, 09:35 AM
Okay - rigging it to be able to paint narrow spots on the mesh, that I can understand, but other than that I don't really see how any of this could be used for anything other than still images entierly created in ZBThat is what I am saying (to a degree). The usefulness of what we are seeing here appears to only be useful withing ZBrush itself (for the most part).

v2 of ZB has fantastic displacement painting tools, but it's still a diamond in the rough, I wish ZB would be developed into a pure 3D displacement painter (with a more streamlined workflow)Not only that, but it is limited in some ways as well. For example, if you create content for real-time 3D applications (i.e. games and the like) then you need to concerve texture/skin space on your UV map due to video card limitations on texture sizes, etc. To do this you will often overlap UV faces (i.e. one arm is placed inverted over the other arm so that they share the same UV space). You cannot paint a model with shared UV space in ZBrush or it crashes or causes strange things to happen. The same could be true of normal maps (as far as sharing the same UV space in places).

the modelling - while interesting as a concept - really doesn't do it for meMe either and I suspect this is why many are modeling in other applications and then importing the model into ZBrush for finishing (painting and/or detailing). Like I had mentioned earlier, I wish that ZBrush would incorporate some form of traditional modeling within it so that it would at least be an option.

Likewise with the create-mesh-based-on-mesh thing in the video, didn't he just create a copy of the mesh he already had?No. I don't think so. The meshes that are automatically generated from Z-Spheres do not really take into account topology considerations. This makes for meshes that could be very hard to animate. The method shown in the video allows the user to reconstruct the mesh based on the shape of the Z-Sphere mesh with proper topology in mind. This is a good thing and it is something that could be used outside of ZBrush because you could then export a model with proper topology.

Ordibble-Plop
11-30-2004, 09:47 AM
The rigging tools aren't for use in animation but are being sold as 'modelling rigging tools'.

They are there to help you to determine whether your mesh is suitable for deformation while you are still doing the modelling.

It also appears that the whole process is non-linear, so you can view your mesh and how it deforms before actually generating it.

I am interested to see how editable the rigs are, but as they are made from small zspheres (the surface rigs), I assume they can be edited and saved just like other zsphere models.

arvid
11-30-2004, 10:08 AM
Cheers, I see how some of this is useful after all. But I'm only speaking from my own point of view, and it's in the displacement painting I see the big potenial. I don't often rely entierly on displacement for details, most of the time detail is modelled, but displacement gives it that last bit of detail, and that's what I'm after, not the whole shebang :)

DanSilverman
11-30-2004, 10:11 AM
The rigging tools aren't for use in animation but are being sold as 'modelling rigging tools'.
Yes, but the attractive thing about how this new features works is that it deforms the mesh so well WITHOUT having to assign vertices to bones or anything like that. This is like an animator's dream come true. Even so, it remains only a dream if this can only be used within Z-Brush and not exported out somehow. Using morph targets (as someone else mentioned) is one limited way, but it would be great if there was some form of a Z-Brush plugin for other modelers like MAX, Maya, etc that would allow you to import Z-Brush models with their Z-Sphere deformers and export out boned animations to be used in games and the like.

Mahlikus
11-30-2004, 09:06 PM
one word.

Plugins!

Thats how something that now seems to be limited may explode later!
Some plugin god will come in and write that ability.
Or better yet, this is stage two or three of a long term goal.
First it was creating zspheres (1.5), then adding more functionality (1.55b)
Now this addition to the 'Zif' arsenal! I definately think it isnt a question of 'if' but 'when'.
I mean think of the animation stuff we were told about but still haven't seen. I think its because they not only found a better solution but are working on ways of making it useful to other soft. Seems the only way to go really.

JDex
11-30-2004, 09:31 PM
I don't know if a demo would increase sales, it will be cracked within a month.
The fantastic innovations Pixologic are comming out with and word of mouth might be better for sales. I for one bought it, and love it!
It already is cracked... the demo doesn't factor into the warez arguement. At least 5 times since Zb2 was released I have been offered a copy at school (where warez are everywhere) and if it wasn't for these damn ethics, values and morals I was instilled with, a demo wouldn't be an issue... since I'd have already tried it, and not bought it.

Eh... :shrug:

Mahlikus
11-30-2004, 10:45 PM
Pixologic doesn't even put full functionality in their demos so cracking it means nothing really.

DanSilverman
12-01-2004, 09:28 AM
I don't think he was implying that ZBrush 1.55b is cracked, but that ZB2 is out there somewhere and offered as warez. If this is the case, then it would be a full version (or some later beta release) because there is no ZB2 demo as yet (and, thus, no version with reduced features).

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