Grand Space Opera 3D Entry: John A. MacSween

[jamacsween]

OK, Put this off until its perhaps too late but been lying awake with ideas running through my head...wouldn't it be great if it looked like this and so on so regardless of how far I reach, will throw my hat in the ring.

Truely inspiried by the anchor dredging up the huts in James Kaufeldt's submission. Wow...

So my idea is this....

There is any number of concepts out there where wormholes provide instantaeous access to different parts of the galaxy. For trade to effectively work, then there should be trading points (forks in the river on earth, ports on coasts etc).

Prosperity and trade is driven by this movement of goods and services, so as more trade occurs, more people are attracted and more visitors come...more wormholes are opened into new parts of the galaxy.

I was thinking of an location where these congregate. Wormholes are controlled and held open for trade across these portals.

The scope then is huge (and rather daunting). Millions of species, different races, types of craft.

Question is what would the central location look like. Getting scale and fitting all this in is not going to be easy.

I have a few ideas and these are (with their problems):

Mass of structures, intermingled and added to as new wormholes open and new factions arive.
Problem - No control, there has to be a governing authority who controls acces to these wormholes (this is the second part of my idea, but more later...see post "Change of Management").
One structure which is surrounded by wormholes.
Problem - What is it???? Large flat plate???? Expand by stacking layers??? Gravity????

Like the idea of a more ordered main element with a trace of the latter in it. But where?

Want to keep magical machinery out of it where possible (as if it is not fancifull enough - -star wars captures the imagination so much because it looks real and is "just" or "almost" possible). Therefore no gravity generators on a world wide scale, this leaves the centrepetal force concept.

So, this is driving me to a circular station/world that is surrounded by controlled wormholes. Scale...Are we looking at 100's of miles, 1000's or millions? THINK BIG so I will be at the top end of that scale :thumbsup:.

A few concept models pulled together to get point of view and scale together and will post these over the next few day.

Ooops, rambled on a bit but this should set the scene.

More soon.

JA

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101397097_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101397097_large.jpg)

Simple model for the wormholes and mechanism for maintaining them.

Will use a series of these to work out my POV for the scene.

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101397187_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101397187_large.jpg)

Simple model for the wormholes and mechanism for maintaining them.

Will usae a series of these to work out my POV for the scene.

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101516910_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101516910_large.jpg)

Just trying to get the POV right.

Want a wormhole close for the "beachhead", and also want to show the side of the ring (space ports and other activity. Also want sense of scale. Depth of rim is several hundred miles.

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101721185_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101721185_large.jpg)

Low poly drop ship. As these wil take up no more than a few pixels square each on the final render, doesn't need to be too detailed. Will work up a texture for them later.

These will be droppped by the large "beach-head" craft in their tens of thousands.

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101721367_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101721367_large.jpg)

A quick test showing drop ships emerging from one hatch on the \"beach head\" craft.

May want to refing this so they follow a spline and can control their direction more easily. Will play around with it later.

[JamesMK]

Looks like you're off to a cool start here. I like the concept of a wormhole with a maintenance mechanism.... getting all sorts of weird ideas there... Keep it up!

[jamacsween]

JamesMK,

Thanks for the feedback. Want actually finish this and feedback from a user who produces quality of work such as yours is great.

More updates soon.

JA

[stevetwist]

Hmm, interesting concept. It's hard to see exactly where you're going with this, but picking up bits from here and there it seems like a very cool idea... especially the worm hole maintainey machines, they're a real neat idea.

[jamacsween]

Steve,

Thanks for the feedback. Been following your thread too. looking good...

I know where you are coming from and hopefully will become clearer later.

Because fo the scale, really looking for diversity of models at not too high a resolution. Will keep posting and hopefull yget feedback.

Enjoying this so far!!

JA

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101835807_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101835807_large.jpg)

Ideas for cargo tugs and std containers. Also got ideas for containers in large floating storage facilities with a few of them harbouring a wee surprise or two!

[jamacsween]

Just a note on scales. Have the width and rim depth looking right so now I need to think about what the width across the ring is to get the terrain texturing right.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I assume that 60miles is the total depth of the atmosphere with the first 20 holding weather and clouds then (thanks to the great new measuring tools in C4D R9, my width across the ring, to scale is 1300 miles.

To let this show something up on the bump, then will need to really put in some olympus mons sized mountains. Well it is GRAND space opera after all.

Alot of my ships will not register on this scale though so will have stuff going on in foreground and background as well as some truely monstrous sized ships.

Need to be very carefull with this scale issue though or everything wil just be dots!!

May excercise a little dramatic license and take the ehight overall of the rim as 20-30 miles which would scale my width down to around 600 miles....

Once I have some texturing and disp mapping done will post more.

JA

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101900637_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1101900637_large.jpg)

This is just a rough test to refine the process of creating some terrain for the world.

[A] - Pretty happy with the height of the displacement here but may want to spill over the rim....

[B] - Detail here is poor and can be improved. Too much sea area and not enough land. May add structures/cities in the middle of the sea.

[C] - Like the idea of this vallet cutting the land mass in half.

Learning alot from this though!!

JA

[stevetwist]

Hello again,

The ship model looks great, I love the contrast between the driving part and the container parts.

The bump mapping is looking cool also, I like the way you're experimenting... keep it up, it'll really help to improve your work.

[jamacsween]

Hi Stevetwist

Thanks for your feedback. I've been spending time on the workflow between ZBrush and C4D for the thin element which is the bedrok of the world and trying to get manageable render times as against small model sizes and think I have come up woith the optimum. Will post the image tonight.

Will start the high res texture for the landscape and then work on some textures for the various cloud and ocean layers.

Also need to start putting some detail on the rim wall...make it a wee bit more interesting..docks and variation in detail. Then need to work up some more ships, start working on all the low res textures, work on the "beach head" craft.....oh dear...lots still to do.....:thumbsup:

Cheers

JA

[vrhead]

love the swarm of ships .. my ol puter cant handle that many ships ... hehehe.. im forcing it to do what its doing so far..but from what i can tell the detail and scope of your pic it is gona be a inspiring scene when its done

[jamacsween]

vrhead,

Thanks for the feedback. RE: the swarm, want to make a little tighter and theres going to be quit a few before its doen (pricing more meory already!!).

Thanks and good luck in your challenge. Its looking really good.

JA

[tikson]

Hay, jamacsween,

I like this idea really, but I think that it is good time to give you little remark, because I've seen this kind of pictures before. So there is a danger that it is not very original. You have to be very good then. Really, it is hard to find very original idea in this kind of competition. Beacause 'space opera' is quite worn out theme with endless battles and alien civilisations. I think it is good time to mention that, when you're in the beginning still. So you can think about it... Maybe you can find more interesting viewing angle, maybe some kind of symbols or whatever. It's hard, really...
Please don't think I want to block you - opposite, I'd like to improve your idea and this is just another persons opinion. Please don't let your mood to cool down. Honestly, I'm ravished by your project.

But about the last picture: maybe you can make the ring appear bigger somehow. I feel it's too small yet :scream:. Perhaps some bigger details to front and lower the displacement on foregronud.

there is one example of the ringworld (http://www.martiniere.com/ringworld.htm) <= click here

Go on, jamacsween, good luck to you :thumbsup:!

[jamacsween]

tikson,

Many thanks for your comments. They are very much appreciated and I know exactly where you are coming from. Getting the scale correct is going to be my biggest problem because I want to show both the grand scale and the detail of the mass invasion.

Elements I want to show are:

- World thriving in trade due to this huge array of controlled wormholes
- Shipping lanes buslting with miriad of transport and craft flying from worm hole to wormhole
- Large depositories of goods in these std containers (different shades and colours)
- Space ports in the outer rim wall
- Beach-head craft with its nose stuck thro one of these wormholes and directly feeding it power (to prevent world from simply turning it off and cutting their ship in half!!).
- Large bay doors open on this craft disgorging drop ships which in turn start causing havoc in the system (mining shipping lanes, bombing the world below)

I'm planning on creating the world such that a late change of heart will allow me to change the perspective to on from below the atmosphere. Very tricky and will certainly listen to any feedback you give.

Many thanks

JA

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1102119692_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1102119692_large.jpg)

Following recent crit, trying alternative view with some placeholder textures.

Starting to get closer to what I want now.

[d-tox]

That circle reminds me of halo :)
Anyway looks nice man, keep at it:D

[stevetwist]

lol d-tox, same here, only I think it'll look much better than halo when all the wormhole things are added to the final composition - keep up the cool work.

[tikson]

Getting the scale correct is going to be my biggest problem because I want to show both the grand scale and the detail of the mass invasion. Thank you very much.
Scale (or feeling of it) is problem number one for me too, and atmosphere. It seems you'll have quite busy picture. Circular world gives nice backround for this wormhole 'mess'. I really hope you succeed. Clock is ticking.... I'm afraid that I'll meet problems with deadline also, because there is stilll so much to do.

Keep on going :thumbsup: jamacsween!

P. S. before I made a mistake - I just wanted to say backround instead of foreground.

[jamacsween]

Thanks for the feedback folks.

d-tox: re: halo-not sure what you mean. If there is any image you can point me to, I'd be gratefull. Don't want any issue of lack of originality (even if the concept of a circular world is not that original!!). But thanks very much for the words of encouragement.

stevetwist: Thanks also for the words of faith. It really is a boost.

tikson: Deadlines....My bane at the moment but really enjoying the challenge. Even if I don't finish (and I know its a cliche) but you don't realise how much you learn trying to complete something like this until you try. Its all the wee problems like scaling tectures to the correct size for the final render, pipeline between your various packages where minor probs can really throw a spanner in the works. Fedback from a crowd like this really helps though.

Cheers

JA

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1102201157_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1102201157_large.jpg)

Just a wee break from landscaping the world.

This is a low poly mine which will be dropped in their tens of thousands (my poor computer is going to go belly up before this finishes!!).

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1102613693_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1102613693_large.jpg)

This is a modelling test for the floating container teminals which will hover in the air over the world. The idea is that as containers are required they are moved onto the loading areas at the rear and removed through the wormholes or sent down to meet the surface of the rotating world below.

Just a screen grab to show progress. Will be populating a matrix of these and get rid of the awful repeating patterns.

Also a good site for explosions.....

[Cleveland]

love your work. hope it all comes together for you. your vision feels very bankesque? ever read him at all? if not, you should. keep up the good work.

[jamacsween]

Hi phlebas9,

Thanks for your feedback. Very nice words of praise. If you mean Ian M Banks, then yes,as a fellow scot, I have read all his stuff. Very insperational.

Cheers

JA

[arturro]

Hi there! Very nice work you got here. I like your smooth ships. Very nice, and in one style. I would advice to do something about this floating container teminals. the plane is too flat. I owuld add some plates for those containers, for example 6 containers on one plate(2 rows and 3 columns), around this plane you may add some small boxes simulating some tech panels or some control places.

good luck! I'll be back:twisted:

[jamacsween]

arturro,

Thanks for the feedback and I agree, the platform itself is looking a little plain. Will add some detail work around the sides to break it up.

Only really looking to work on the outline as it will be seen from a great distance and alot of the detail will not be apparent.

Many thanks

JA

[blackdragoncg]

I like it! esspecially the tug Idea! look forward to seeing the complete model's good luck with it!

My Thread http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=191177&highlight=Gary+Picton

[Aethyrprime]

very interesting idea. I am looking forward to seeing this completed. Keep up the good work.

[jamacsween]

Blackdragon,

Thanks for your kind words of support and glad the tug idea meets with your approval. I will be using these in other ways also i.e. towing other types of structures etc, just to give the background a little interest.

Aethyr,

Thanks also for the words of support.

Update, Working on the layout of the container terminal. This will be the scene of a major explosion. Idea is as the wormhole is breached, "beach head craft" keeps it open by feeding it energy from it own supply. As a diversion, containers posiitoned inside these termainls will explode showering the world with debris....if I can pull it off. Need to work on pyrocluter effects and also must start the high res texturing of the world/atmoshpere...

JA

[Virtuoso]

It's a fresh concept,a new and all together out there idea...Which is always a good thing,while still maintaining reason,at least in my book.i'll check back in to see what you come up with,it's got a interesting twist this idea of yours.Work hard john.........:arteest:

[jamacsween]

Virtuoso...loving your work,

Many thanks for the words of support. I have a minor problem where by my skill set has not quit caught up with my imagination yet...:shrug:, but will keep plugging away. Have gotten so much out of this so far that already it has been a sucess for me.

Thanks

JA

[jamacsween]

Hi vrhead,

Thanks for the heads up on that. To be honest I was worried about people drawing parralells with Larry Nivens stuff but the concept has been done before. I'm looking for a new slant with the world being a centre for trading and therefore very wealthy and a target for take over/invasion.

Cheers

JA

[vrhead]

yea the ring is halo ish.. i wouldnt want you to put alot of work in to a great image and get burned just because the whole thing about halo .. was a huge Ring planet type thing...

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1103331579_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1103331579_large.jpg)

Some tests on the energy bolts that will surround the wormhole generators

[vrhead]

how are you making the energy efects

[jamacsween]

Hi vrhead,

To create the bolts, I started with the free, and great, plugin Bolt Classic. I then created a low complexity, large diamter bolt between two nulls. I then created another two, higher complexity and greater amplitude bolts with different random seeds between the same two nulls.

Then time stepping through the animation frame I selected nice lloking points and copy/pasted the state of the bolts at that point. Then by moving them out of the way and making them editable, I could freeze them in that state and repeat the process to ghet new versions all from the same root.

The material was btained by playing around with a high glow and mid range luminance values.

HTH

JA

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1103413700_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1103413700_large.jpg)

This is an outline of a single bay of the beachhead craft that will disgorge thousands of drop ships into the system. Some detailing work still needed.

Wanting some crits to see if I should leave in, or remove the tubes within the hanger ports. Think they look a little naff...

Any thoughts appreciated.

JA

[JacquesPena]

Hmm...I see where you stuck on your decesion. Since your going to have objects coming out, probably look better without the tubes just for some area space in the part of the scene. But, they seem good for detail..so either way I'm sure it will come out good. Just need to do some test images i guess. :)

[Aethyrprime]

Great work, keep at it. Have a happy new year!

[jamacsween]

Happy new year to all...

Sleepinglion,

Thanks for the feedback. I've doen a few test renders and decided to go with the non tube versions. Some tests will be posted soon.

Aethyr,

Happy new year to you too my friend and thanks for visiting again. Been a very busy period with family and stuff but been slugging away on this. Will post some new images on the supplementary detail soon.

Cheers

JA

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104674700_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104674700_large.jpg)

This is a un-textured model of the sky cities which will float just above the atmosphere with their lower fin an hanger dragging in the upper stmosphere generating power for the city.

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104674871_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104674871_large.jpg)

Another view of the sky city...

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104799656_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104799656_large.jpg)

Working on the cloud cover for the scene. Searhced for a large numbner of high res shots from NASA and converting these to greyscale and then tidying up. Will work through a few of these to decal onto the two laeys of shader clouds for detail.

all will then be sub_d displaced to various levels. Done a few tests and it is coming out not bad.

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104799834_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104799834_large.jpg)

Heres another sample. This is going to be a large hurricane that will feature high on the arch in full view for the final scene.

[jamacsween]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104800054_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/5333/5333_1104800054_large.jpg)

Last sample of the 6-12 I will do for the final image. Really like this one showing the eddies caused by a landmass.

[Aethyrprime]

hurry up man you can do it!

[ArtisticVisions]

Doubt it; he hasn't posted in 2 weeks. :shrug:

[jamacsween]

Aethyr,

Thanks for the prompt. I have been unable to complete due to work commitments. Spent many late nights on this and have thouroughly enjoyed and learned form the experience and appreciate feedback from all who have given it. May I wish you the very best of luck in your submission.

Jason,

You are correct I'm afraid. Have not seen any of your work but will pay your submission an visit.

Thanks again to all.

JA

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.