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Kanga
11-25-2004, 04:23 AM
Hi

Busy with a lip sync short and tried to get as much expression out of the model as possible. The last piece of the demo is where a bunyip will swoop down and steal his cap. I started that model last night and while I am finishing it I would really appreciate ideas and crits on the main bit before I do some compositing.
http://www.art-werx.com/maxstuff/trailer.jpg
Here is the start of the model.
http://www.art-werx.com/maxstuff/bunyip_mod.jpg

The short is here:
10mb Quicktime .mov (http://www.art-werx.com/movies/lilbuny.mov)
12mb MJPEG .avi (right click save as) (http://www.art-werx.com/movies/lilbunyw.avi)

Thanx in advance
Kanga

Mungo J
11-25-2004, 05:28 AM
quality animation so far kanga, and the model is excellent, it's probly best not to listen to any of my crit as i haven't even done lip-synching yet (we have a module next term on it tho, which i am looking forward to..) but it seems to me that the different facial positions aren't quite extreme enough, saying that i did play the animation through without sound a couple of times (really embarrasses some lip-synching) and it still looked pretty bloody good.

i really like the lighting, skin shading and texturing, but could suggest making it (the skin) a little bit dirty or something just to take that 'perfect' look off.

it seems a bit odd you have the moon rotating, what is the thought behind that?

can't wait to see your bunyip, post again soon!

Kanga
11-25-2004, 02:09 PM
Mungo J

Wierd! My best friend in Australia when I was a kid was an Englishman and his nickname was Mungo Jerry, he he everyting goes around!

I am very appreciative of your advice,... if you watched the thing with the sound off it means you know what you are doing.

Gotcha on the skin thing. He is pock marked but that doesn't come over strong enough I agree. As far as the strength of expression is concerned,.. well thats kind of important so Im gonna have to work on that one.
The moon revolving is just my strange sense of humour.

Thanx for the help man!

DaddyMack
11-25-2004, 07:57 PM
Hi Kanga, whew some neat modelling and lighting. I like this project.

I'd say the biggest weakness is the lack of a narrow (o, oo, w) shape for the mouth you'll give the sync much more credibility if you get the corners of the mouth to move a bit more.
For the animation I think his eye curves could do with a tweeking to add to the paranoia of the looking around. The ease out from th head shake at the beginning seems a bit awkward, I thing the last swing to (his) the left is too quick...dunno tho

You really knew someone named Mungo Jerry? The name has a comedic ring in my mind...dunno why...

This looks like 'twill be some great work...

Kanga
11-25-2004, 08:45 PM
sumdumguy

Thanx man!
The head shake is probably a bit comic at the moment, I think I will turn it into a shudder and eliminate that 'toss out' you mentioned entirely.

Good call on the 'o, oo, w,' thats an alteration to the morphs, I think you mean inward corners for more expression.

With eye curves do you mean a sort of squint?

Tying to work out the deadwood and follow the advice I gave you, not easy when you have been sitting on top of something, thats why these tips are so important.

Yeah Mungo Jerry had a hit called 'in the summertime' or something,.... wayback. I thought it was a good handle!

Thanx man
Cheers

DaddyMack
11-26-2004, 10:03 AM
sumdumguy


Yeah Mungo Jerry had a hit called 'in the summertime' or something,.... wayback. I thought it was a good handle!

Thanx man
Cheers
Hah:scream: song stuck in my head all day, cheers:D

Q? eye curves...I meant the timing of the eye rotations (animation curves)

Kanga
11-26-2004, 04:33 PM
sumdumguy

Do dee doo doo doo
Da dee daa daa dee:)
Ha ha cant stick in your mind, you wernt born yet!

Eye cuves,...... oh yeah I agree
Thanx man

Heres to Mungo:thumbsup:

DaddyMack
11-26-2004, 07:31 PM
sumdumguy

Do dee doo doo doo
Da dee daa daa dee:)
Ha ha cant stick in your mind, you wernt born yet!

Sorry, still there lol...aaahh honorable kanga underestimates the powers of hippy parents:D, I was spoon fed 60s music all thru the 70s

thanks back at ya

Are you making a short of sorts with these characters? Where's it going?

metroeast
11-27-2004, 12:54 AM
I agree with Sumdumguy. You need to exaggerate the phonetic positions a little more and work the timings a little more. It looked like you missed a beat or two in the beginning. The skin and the eyes look really good.

These are really good references I found useful
http://www.comet-cartoons.com/toons/3ddocs/lipsync/lipsync.html

Preston Blair books were a great resource too.

Good luck

Kanga
11-27-2004, 06:27 AM
I agree with Sumdumguy. You need to exaggerate the phonetic positions a little more and work the timings a little more. It looked like you missed a beat or two in the beginning. The skin and the eyes look really good. Thanx man!
You are right the 'b'in the beginning is lagging, sharp eyes, will fix that. As far as the lip shapes are concerned looks like I am going to have to make them all more pronounced in general, so Im gonna hop over to that url you posted straight away. All the syncing was done with ventrilloquist which is a brilliant little 'not too expensive' plugin for 3dmaX, sort of magpie app which leaves you more time for animating the figure itself. The skin and all the details like veins arteries and wrinckels were done in z-brush2 which is an amazing program which I am just starting to come to terms with the power of. This compressed file is 11MB (which I thought was rather alot for the net) but the uncompressed version looks more detailed.

Sorry, still there lol...aaahh honorable kanga underestimates the powers of hippy parents:D, I was spoon fed 60s music all thru the 70s

thanks back at ya

Are you making a short of sorts with these characters? Where's it going? Well I'm am 'ol hippy' lover so I would probably get on well with your folks. You can call me dad:).

Where it's going?, dang should have said that at the beginning.
I am a freelancer and my passion is character design and animation. At the moment I do some illustration work and Industrial Design in 3d. I have been busy with 3dcg. for about 10 years now. A year ago I discovered CGTalk and was blown away with the quality here. I threw ALL the crap out of my website and started over with the machinflesh challenge, been whacking away at it ever since. Just making characters from different time periods and different resolutions (there are a couple of low poly characters in the pipeline) and animating them to get work in that area.

There is a gap at the end where the speaker ducks, the 'Bunyip' (which is the wingy thing) will swoop down and grab his hat then fly into the moon as an ending. I got the idea from a soundtrack demo in ventrilloquist which was a poem about 'Jabawocky'. I want to send the demo to 3d World magazine when its finnished but they wont accept animations with copywright soundtracks and being a musician there is no excuse for me not to make my own soundtrack. So I made a new poem, spoke it in, droped the pitch and whacked on some sound effects and edited the thing in Cubase.

Everything is (port)folio stuff. If you havent made it you can't sell it.

So far I haven't been surprised by the quality of advice which is always 'right on' at CGTalk, but I have been surprised by the nummber of reactions considering the download times.

Thanx guys you make the job much easier!
Kind regards
Dad:).

metroeast
11-27-2004, 10:40 AM
I am kinda in the same boat as well. I am gonna check out you MachineFlesh entry.

Later

jmBoekestein
01-12-2005, 10:50 AM
He Kanga,

I was trying to watch your animation but I can't retrieve the file. Did you take it off-line?
I think the model looks very good man! That's gotta be ZBrush, those creases look very good!
Did you finish it allready or are you still working on it?

Kanga
01-12-2005, 01:56 PM
Hey Jan mark!

I musta switched servers,..... doh!

http://www.art-werx.com/pages/3dgallery.html
Here are two download types .mov and .avi Turn your speakers on :)

Yeah z brush 2. I am still busy with the bunyip monster and struggling with him in ZB. This time its a whole figure with a displacement map and I am having some banding problems in 3dmax. Also I am rigging it with character studio as I know game companies use this so thats more learning :scream:

Your wip is comming along uite well BTW!

jmBoekestein
01-14-2005, 12:54 AM
Hey that's very nice man!:thumbsup:

Is it your own voice, 'cause he sounds like an ausie:) . How far are you planning on taking this? The model looks so detailed that I almost expect you to start painting extra maps and then using Messiah:animate to blend them, like with the neckling.

Anyway, looking good, somebody allready said to improve your timing. What really helps with that is building on anticipation, from what I get I can clearly see what you're putting in his motion. So it will be recognisable I'm sure! You should speed up some of the more extreme movements he's making and then keep the rest at a slow anticipating speed, I think that will work. If he's telling the scare part, he'll probably scare himself too, so he'd be making jerky movements. Like when a dog suddenly hears a twig snap.

It's funny:surprised , I didn't even noticed the moon was spinning 'till almost after the animation. Weird detail, but cool!:scream:

Thanks for havin' a look again! I'm kind of happy for now, my classmate is going to tell me how to stitch surfaces monday. In the meanwhile I want to get her cheekbone out more heavily and in parallel with her forehead and jaw, like in the concept drawing. Really difficult because I maybe will need to change the entire topology for it. And allready I had to improvise on her eyes, which don't look the way should, but that's for poly's or Zbrush later.

Good luck!

Kanga
01-14-2005, 01:40 AM
Hey that's very nice man!:thumbsup:`
Thanx man!

Is it your own voice, 'cause he sounds like an ausie:)
Yeah its my voice droped a couple of tones in cubase to make it a bit more scary. I put on the accent (or tried to remember it after 20 years in Holland) to try give it some personality.

. How far are you planning on taking this? The model looks so detailed that I almost expect you to start painting extra maps and then using Messiah:animate to blend them, like with the neckling.
Well some music in the front and a better logo for the beginning, then the bunyip monster sweeping in and taking a blink and snap at the camera then that should be it for a short demo as part of a bigger demo and stuff for the website. A geek friend of mine is into game programming so there might be a game demo in it. As for Messiah I downloaded the demo and could'nt get the interface to work and I tried for hours. I have an FX5200 graphics card which Messiah hates and the wacom wouldnt work at all even though they have special drivers and scripting for it, not to mention no 2 monitor support. I will keep an eye on Messiah though cause I think its going to be a powerfull app.

If he's telling the scare part, he'll probably scare himself too, so he'd be making jerky movements. Like when a dog suddenly hears a twig snap.
Very very good advice otherwise there will be no excitment. Finding snappy movements a real chalenge because they look computer like at the moment. This is something I will have to fix!

It's funny:surprised , I didn't even noticed the moon was spinning 'till almost after the animation. Weird detail, but cool!:scream:
Yeah a little more wierdness :thumbsup:

I'm kind of happy for now, my classmate is going to tell me how to stitch surfaces monday. In the meanwhile I want to get her cheekbone out more heavily and in parallel with her forehead and jaw, like in the concept drawing. Really difficult because I maybe will need to change the entire topology for it. And allready I had to improvise on her eyes, which don't look the way should, but that's for poly's or Zbrush later.
Yeah the model already has lots of character and its nice to see you are busy with ZB, you wont be sorry!

Thanx for the comments and advice.
Good luck with your wip too!

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