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Taoizm
08-26-2002, 02:34 PM
Posted by Brandon Davis on the Discreet support forum:

It looks like the "Coronado" website is officially up now. If you saw my presentation at SIGGRAPH, then a lot of this will be familiar but expanded upon. How does this relate to MAX? There are nearly 600 VFX shots created by a small handful of MAX artists and compositors.


Here's a link to the site:
http://www.coronadothemovie.com

And a link to the press release about Uncharted Territory, the production company behind the film:

http://www.uemedia.com/CPC/article_1115.shtml

-------------------

(Not to mention the trailer is pretty slick)

Marcel
08-26-2002, 03:53 PM
Aaahhhhhh helicopters!

Amazing how much helicopters they have crammed in this trailer.... :applause:

This stuff is like p0rn for me!

thomas7g
08-26-2002, 04:43 PM
lol

Well you know the osprey's are all CG. No way in hell they could survive going through a waterfall. Plane has a nasty habit of crashing under normal circumstances.

:bounce:

JINN
08-26-2002, 06:25 PM
away in the trailer, despite the profficient CG effects it looks a little daft, a very thin story...

Marcel
08-26-2002, 07:24 PM
away in the trailer, despite the profficient CG effects it looks a little daft, a very thin story...

Who cares man.....it has gazillions of helicopters! :)

BrandonD
08-26-2002, 07:53 PM
Yes, there's quite a lot of helicopters, jets, explosions and other things smashing and crashing. That's what made it a fun project!

zappenduster
08-26-2002, 09:33 PM
will there be a dvd or is it cinema release ?

BrandonD
08-26-2002, 09:35 PM
I hope there's a cinema release. It looks great projected at 2k. If you read the News section on www.coronadothemovie.com they'll tell you the status of the film.

Oh and when the DVD is released there will be lots of goodies ;)

Wiro
08-26-2002, 10:50 PM
Like an audio commentary by Brandon Davis? :D

That'd be cool

Wiro

zappenduster
08-26-2002, 11:10 PM
October 19-22 Volker & Marc will give a “Making Of” presentation at eDIT 2002 in Frankfurt, Germany

hmm sounds nice but october damn my holidays in december so i cant join that would be nice to watch that

BrandonD
08-26-2002, 11:43 PM
I did two "3D VFX of Coronado" presentations each day at the Discreet booth at SIGGRAPH. Most of the stuff I showed was 3d breakdowns of several key shots. Normally I'd show the shot, then show the wireframe scene, element breakdowns, etc. Basically talked about some of the techniques and whatnot. The thing that still gets most people is that the 3D was done with just a few people and 3ds max out of the box. We only used 2 commercial plugins: Afterburn and Texture Layers, no crazy customized pipeline - although that would have been nice.

Matt
08-27-2002, 12:21 AM
Yeah, I really don't get what this movie is about, looks pretty gay...

Girl needs to find some guy, guy ends up in jungle with rebels, girl helps rebels win against oppressive leaders and becomes a symbol of their revolution?

Gaaaayyyyy

Effects are third rate too.

edit: Lemme tweak that comment a bit before some newb flames me... For being a movie they're trying to push as a cinema-quality film, the effects are third rate. It looks like a good NBC miniseries or HBO movie.

moovieboy
08-27-2002, 12:44 AM
Okay, yes. We do have a lot of cool helicopter shots, and they look very top drawer...

BUT, speaking as someone who edits trailers, it becomes waaaay too obvious that this one is headed up by people who think VFX first, and story.... um... story?

It seems like they spent more time working on "interactive smoke on chopper #12 in shot 28F" than they did on the whole script.

And if I'm wrong, then who's the idiot that forgot to put the story in the trailer?

If the idea here is to make an independant look like a big studio film, well... If you count shooting your whole wad in the trailer, then yes, this one's right up there with the $200 million blockbusters.

Sorry to rag on it so much, but I'm a firm believer in both "Story first" and "Get your trailer right!" (like ya couldn't tell) :D

-Tom

Wiro
08-27-2002, 12:57 AM
Well, as I haven't seen the trailer on the big screen yet but only in the small QT window I'd find it hard to critisize the effects. I found them quite nice to be honest.

As for story...hm yeah, but I hope to be positively surprised. Actually it takes me back to the 80s and Michael Douglas :)

Wiro

anobrin
08-27-2002, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by JINN
away in the trailer, despite the profficient CG effects it looks a little daft, a very thin story...

I can remember a litte upstart CG film company who thought their
800 seat SGI renderfarm, effects shots and Uber plugged seats of MAYA
would cause the great unwashed masses to be so AWESTRUCK:bounce:
that they simply would not notice that the storyline was so LAME as to be nearly unwatchable

Hmmm... what was their name ?????

Oh yeah!!................. Square USA:rolleyes:

anim8r2
08-27-2002, 02:47 AM
Yeah, I'm with Matt. (Exactly what I thought.)

The effects are good, but come on.
I was sick of the helicopters halfway through the trailer.

slaughters
08-27-2002, 02:56 AM
So,

Let's trash the movie because the small, independent 3d animators did a better job in post production than the movie writer/director did in making the actual movie ?

Trash talk is cheap and easy. Critiquing is hard. Guess which one shows more class ?

Dr BeN
08-27-2002, 03:30 AM
"Mr. sweaty guy with gun i can't find a plot in this movie .... ?"

"Well son let's bring some more of those Helicopters in here"

... hm to be honest .... the story sucks ! really !!!

but since we are here in CG Talk ... the compositing and the FX are very nice done i think

nice fire and dynamics on the heli's


but i'm VERY scared from the way movies go today just fx thats it .... and there are way to many Two 's today .... MIB II for example ..... nice fx yea but ? what else .. come'on this is a kindergarden story !!! nothing more !

to be honest the last great movie i saw, which had a great story great fx and i went out of the cinema like WOW !!! let's take a deep breath and watch it again was MATRIX .. thats it ..... ok there where a few pixar's features but hey they are perfectly designed ..... but i mean a real movie with a real story that took you with


.... I'm sad it's going that way ... because i watch movie's for the sake of the fx but many other people don't ! and thats good ! my worst case example is still MIB II .... i went out of this movie wondering a bit about the fx .. and then on the way home i noticed that this was nearly the worst movie i have ever seen .... money corrupts us all ....

well but anyway i'm looking forward to see LotR II ... i hope it will be as good er better as part 1 ......

overall i'm disapointed with todays new movies please get better !



ps: A good example you can make a good movie completely without fx is " Four Rooms" go to your video store and rent it you'll like it !

BrandonD
08-27-2002, 03:44 AM
Something to consider is the fact that the filmmakers are visual effects veterans. Volker was the VFX Supervisor on "Independance Day" and "Godzilla" and Marc was his coordinator/producer. They got together with their director friend Claudio Faeh and wrote a big popcorn adventure film that they decided to make on their own outside of the Hollywood system. Seriously, wouldn't you want to do something like that?

Pyro2301
08-27-2002, 05:28 AM
I would. I think it would have been an awesome experience. As far as no good movies lately....what the heck?!?! The last good movie I saw was Donnie Darko. I also recently saw Amelie and Mulholland Drive. These were good movie that were story driven rather than FX driven. Honestly if FX guys get together to make a movie then it's going to be an FX movie without a doubt. I think that effects were really well done and look great for the limitations they had to deal with.

Lunatique
08-27-2002, 11:26 AM
Well, most visual artists are not storytellers. When most try, they end up with a popcorn action film, as Bradon said. It CAN be good fun--but it can also be total cheeseball.

If any visual artist can be a master storyteller, guys like Spielberg, Cameron, Kubrick, Scorsese..etc wouldn't be so special then.

But I have to say, NEVER start on a production until you have a screenplay that makes the reader go "WOW, that was a page turner!"

I mean, think about your top 10 films of all time--the ones that stood up to the test of time. Now, think about the movie you are about to make. Aim high.

anim8r2
08-27-2002, 02:49 PM
Slaughters,
Critiquing the film makes no sense if you know the film makers are pretty much in the final editing mode (and could care less what we think). I'm not critiquing anything. I'm boooing the story and cinematography as represented by the totally LAME trailer. The shot with the heroin coaxing the big truck across the bridge (like it's a giant creature or something) is totally lame. Both in it's concept AND execution.
"See Mr. Big Heavy Truck, it's safe for me to cross, so you can make it too. Come on, Cooommmmme on." Aughhh! Give me a break. :thumbsdow
Granted, the effects are really cool (the Max team did a great job), but so are a lot of effects these days. The thing that most people are saying is, "Enough with the effects-driven movies already." Stories are key to most people, so if you lack this one element (or fail miserable to convey a story in your trailer), then prepare for some slams. Ill-concieved concepts, poor execution, and a slapped together trailer equates to serious slaming.

If you think we're bad, wait until you see what rottentomatoes will say about it.

You can call me classless for not seeing anything good in this trailer. I'll still voice my opinions.

slaughters
08-27-2002, 08:29 PM
"Critiquing the film makes no sense...."

You are correct. Critiquing the film would not have made sense. Commenting on the special effects, and on how they compare to effects in other films, would be more in line with the original posters intent.

Side note: Strange how our expectations keep going up. I watched "405 the Movie" again recently and found my self nit-picking over special effects which blew me away the first time I saw them.

BoydLake
08-27-2002, 08:43 PM
Good plot or no, I would imagine generally effects artists are happy to have work on interesting projects with other talented people. Not everyone in the biz really has the luxury of picking scripts, though I would imagine Brandon is headed that direction if he's not already there.

From the trailer, I don't gather much story either, but since when do trailers really give much idea how good the stories are anyway? I really like the genre and setting of high adventure in central america. It sounds really cool. I hope to be able to see it sometime soon. Nice work Brandon!


P.S. What was that again? TMOPSPA?

moovieboy
08-28-2002, 12:30 AM
Ya want a critique? I’ll give ya a critique (cracking knuckles) :D

Since all we have here is a trailer and the web site, that’s all I can speculate about, but here goes…

The opening hook is good. Jungle, waterfalls, mystery and big splash of helicopters and cheering. I know there’s some physics laws being broken, but this IS a movie :D

The first spoken words of our protagonist, Claire, are… garbled?!? I’ve listened to it 10 times now and all I get is: “Sorbit sermon… think about it…” Can anyone decipher what she’s saying? Not a great start for our leading actress.

So, Claire flies from the US to Switzerland… Is she pulling an “I thought I’d be romantic and surprise Will, my fiancé” stunt? Besides the “Does anyone really drop several grand to just pop in?” problem, it makes our heroine a bit of a flighty dope. Especially when we discover…

Her whole life with him is a sham. His residence doesn’t exist; his company is a post office box. So, he’s a big, lying sack, huh? Wouldn’t most women at this point say, “Screw this a-hole! I’m going to grab me some nice hottie in Paris!”

But, nope, she must reaaaaallly love this big liar. So, even though he’s fooled her naïve butt completely, she somehow discovers he’s in Coronado: a land of civil war, desert, jungles and mountains where Americans are treated like kidnap currency. She’s told you can’t find someone in that.

Does she say, “Well, f*ck this!”? Does she get anyone with any skill or knowledge or clout to help her? (this assumes Arent (Clayton Rohner) ISN’T the guy she does hire, cuz the trailer doesn’t even mention him) Nope, as far as we can tell, she decides a skinny blonde like her can do it all by herself…

And before I get any deeper: Do we ever see “Mr. Mystery Man” William? Blink in this trailer and you’ll miss him. And even then, you may be looking at the wrong guy! Think he’s the American trying to control the truck on the bridge? Nope, that’s Arnet.

Where’s William? I think I found him: He’s the traitor. The one who says the rebels are behind the waterfall and the one Claire punches shortly thereafter. Am I giving away secrets? Nope, the TRAILER is! You see him with Claire, Arnet and the rebels as they unroll some large map, and he’s also there with El Presidente, giving the rebels away!

Still, because this isn’t exactly mentioned in the trailer, how are we supposed to know or care about any of these people, especially Claire, if the filmmakers themselves deem the characters unnecessary?

Okay, she obviously ends up in the jungle and finds the rebels the government themselves can’t uncover… Does she get killed? Kidnapped for ransom? Nope. Because she’s the plucky girlfriend of William, she’s brought into the deepest inner circle.

Now, let me get this “Revolution” straight. If this follows “Central America for Hollywood 101,” the people are starving and oppressed? The leader is a selfish, power-hungry bastard and uses his tanks to back up his rule?… So, the rebels uncover the lost city of Coronado and now have what amounts to over a hundred million dollars.

How am I guessing such a huge amount? Anyone count all those helicopters and trucks and missiles and bullets? How much is just one of those 50 or so choppers? And how on Earth does a group of rebels secretly sneak that much firepower into their country, past the docks, into the jungle, and behind a waterfall without any government agency going “whaaa?” Or, is someone going to tell me they built all this? With what, bananas and cocoa? :D

“Now the fate of a nation… lies in her hands.” The only way I can possibly buy such a bloated line is if she’s the one who finds out William is the traitor. But somehow, I’d still bet that line doesn’t hold water in the film…

And let’s ask this question. Did they bother to spend ANY of these millions on things like, oh I don’t know… FOOD for the people??? If you’ve got that much money and you’re not actually helping the people… hee hee. Guess you can’t do big special effects with bags of rice, eh?

Ah, and the indecipherable bridge sequence(s)… There’s Claire with a big truck and Arnet. Then there’s Clare dodging fighter Jets and missles with… a KID?? Oh, geez, not the “cute kid in danger” card??? Then we see more of her with the truck as it slips… Then we see shots of her running across the bridge alone, then with the kid again, everything’s falling apart and… where’s the truck? Where’s the kid? What’s going on? Does anyone care? :D

Okay, and now… lots and lots and lots of helicopters. And trucks and jeeps and tanks and explosions. Cool shots? sure! But, um, if they lay waste to the whole capital and blow up everything in site, are the rebels going to become the leaders of a big crater?

And the final line? The thing you want folks to take away from this trailer? “All of it!” It deflates the “In two days all this land will be ours again!”, which is a much better line by itself. It also looks like our rebels aren’t happy unless they have everything. Not too selfish, are we?

And finally, the massive last nail in the coffin… Freeze on the credits. Look who wrote it: The PRODUCERS and the DIRECTOR! Holy frickin J.C on a stick! How does their Web site not choke on it own words when it states:

While visual effects are often used as attractions for their own sake, in Coronado they are a means to a higher end – to tell a riveting story.

How dare ANYONE say anything like that and not bother to HIRE a writer? You know, a guy whose job it is to think of these problems, let the VFX guys still blow everything up, and actually try to make it worth the $9 ticket or $5 rental???

You can’t possibly tell me that hiring a writer would’ve broke the budget or done ANYTHING but make this a better movie. If you VFX guys who worked on this are left with only some shots for your reel, then why should anyone bother dropping “Coronado” on the general public and say, “give us 90+ minutes and some of your money to see this?”

There! There’s your critique… grrrrrrrr :D

-Tom

BrandonD
08-28-2002, 12:42 AM
hehe...come on, tell us what you really think?

moovieboy
08-28-2002, 12:48 AM
Yeah, I'm not just a freak... I'm a super-freak. :D

But I'm fighting the good fight out here every day in Hollywood. You should see how much red ink I bleed on scripts when I give notes! :D

-Tom

xynaria
08-28-2002, 12:50 AM
A film about homosexual helicopters.. how bizarre!!!!!!!!!:D

Pyro2301
08-28-2002, 01:29 AM
The first spoken words of our protagonist, Claire, are… garbled?!? I’ve listened to it 10 times now and all I get is: “Sorbit sermon… think about it…” Can anyone decipher what she’s saying? Not a great start for our leading actress.
She's totally stunned! She's so shocked by what she's seeing that she can't even speak.
“Does anyone really drop several grand to just pop in?”
With the airlines dropping fares as low as there are to bring back business I doubt that it was several grand
Her whole life with him is a sham. His residence doesn’t exist; his company is a post office box. So, he’s a big, lying sack, huh?
No!!! He's like the James Bond of rebels!!!! What a twist!!!
Does she get anyone with any skill or knowledge or clout to help her? Nope, as far as we can tell, she decides a skinny blonde like her can do it all by herself…
Well if she found out where he is then it's obvious that's she has had some sort of top secret training...incredible!
Where’s William? I think I found him: He’s the traitor. The one who says the rebels are behind the waterfall and the one Claire punches shortly thereafter. You see him with Claire, Arnet and the rebels as they unroll some large map, and he’s also there with El Presidente, giving the rebels away!
Whew....this story has so many twists and turns!!!

Ah, and the indecipherable bridge sequence(s)… There’s Claire with a big truck and Arnet. Then there’s Clare dodging fighter Jets and missles with… a KID?? Oh, geez, not the “cute kid in danger” card??? Then we see more of her with the truck as it slips… Then we see shots of her running across the bridge alone, then with the kid again, everything’s falling apart and… where’s the truck? Where’s the kid? What’s going on? Does anyone care? :D
I don't

Okay, and now… lots and lots and lots of helicopters. And trucks and jeeps and tanks and explosions. Cool shots? sure! But, um, if they lay waste to the whole capital and blow up everything in site, are the rebels going to become the leaders of a big crater?

It's a step up from the jungle :shrug:
How does their Web site not choke on it own words when it states:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While visual effects are often used as attractions for their own sake, in Coronado they are a means to a higher end – to tell a riveting story.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ya that's sucks :hmm:


But in the end I think that was a good critique (and really entertaining....you have a good eye for that stuff) of the story in the TRAILER. I think I'll wait till I see the final film BEFORE I decide if it's total crap or great. Lets look at the trailer for Solaris for example....

anim8r2
08-28-2002, 01:32 AM
Moovieboy,
hehehe HAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA!!!:applause:

Man. I was beginning to think I was the only one to enter their website and read the overview.

"Beverly hills babe finds destiny in rebellious jungle dwellers..."

Yikes! What a goofy plot.

moovieboy
08-28-2002, 01:42 AM
We either have too much fun around here...

Or waaay too much time on our hands...

And somehow, I've now got to edit two other trailers before the 12th! And I won't get the footage for the second one until the 2nd! ARRRGH! :D

-Tom

zappenduster
10-26-2003, 03:00 PM
it looks like theres the first dvd out for this movie its a danish one =) (language english dts and 5.1) so i think i give it a try helicopters are always worth a try

before i forget heres a link to the dvd coronado dvd review (http://www.tranexp.com:2000/Translate/index.shtml?from=dan&to=eng&type=url&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.danskhjemmebioforum.dk%2FphpBB2%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D6025)

http://www.dvdoo.com/dvdoo/images/movies/350pix/fronts/coronado_2dk_f.jpg

Mahlon
10-26-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by xynaria
A film about homosexual helicopters.. how bizarre!!!!!!!!!:D


heh heh, good one xynaria.

Mahlon Bouldin

BrandonD
10-26-2003, 07:07 PM
Yup, Denmark is the first location to distribute the DVD. I think Sweden and Norway are next. Take it for what it is, a low-budget experimental film. The DVD's got a whole lot of extras on it that should be appealing to anyone interested in guerrila film production and visual effects.

moovieboy
10-26-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by zappenduster
http://www.dvdoo.com/dvdoo/images/movies/350pix/fronts/coronado_2dk_f.jpg

"The Greatest Action Adventure You've Ever Seen" Okay, has everyone forgotten how quotes like that make a lot of audience members run from the movie screaming?

Not "a great" but "the greatest..ever"???:eek:

Sigh... this movie really needs to be marketed a little better... But then again, what doesn't? :D

-Tom

vfx
10-27-2003, 11:17 AM
Yes I agree the story does seem quite lame but.... come on guys I live for these sort of effects - I get so buzzed to hear that it didn't take ILM and PIXAR half a year to make these kinda effects, and guess what they look darn excellent - That jeep rolling past the other jeep - that must have been a nightmare shot! I would have given my left arm to be on this production. What a great piece to add to your CV. Well done guys for some excellent effects work! I just want to see all of the work now in the final film. Looking forward to also seeing the breakdowns e.t.c. and I wish I could have sat in on one of ur talks BRANDOND but I guess i'm in the wrong country! Doh.

P.S. Was one particular company involved in the effects - who was it? Feel like sending them my CV.


Oh and the reason it feels like an 80's Indy or Romancing the stone is the music - It's spot on.

Mahlon
10-27-2003, 04:15 PM
Looks like a fun thing to work on. I'd like seeing behind the scenes. There's not enough respect for b movies these days. Just like there never was a whole lot of respect for pulp fiction. It's great stuff, though. Looks like a good thing to watch on a Saturday afternoon.

Mahlon Bouldin

BrandonD
10-27-2003, 06:54 PM
Yeah, Uncharted Territory created a small in-house VFX team to handle the entire film. In the end most of the 615 shots were done by a very small handful of 2d and 3d folks. Yep it's kind of cheesy, very saturday matinee kind of fun, but really it was such a blast to work on. So much so that I left a perfectly good job at Digital Domain to come back to Uncharted to work on another project. Good people, fun work. It's not prestigious or "cool" but I love working with the people and we have a blast.

BrandonD
10-27-2003, 08:22 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention my favorite statistic about the 3d work on "Coronado." Not only was it done by a few people, it was done "out of the box" with next to no commercial modification or customization. Default renderer, default tools, only two plugins and a couple simple scripts.

RobertoOrtiz
10-27-2003, 08:43 PM
BrandonD I have seen the trailers and they look very good.

Good job.

-R

BrandonD
10-27-2003, 09:15 PM
Thanks but it's not THAT good, it's not even A level work....but damned fun. It definitely beats some of the A level projects I've worked on ;)

Morganism
10-27-2003, 09:42 PM
I think that considering the circumstances, you guys did an amazing job. Working with lower budget effects can be tough, more often than not it seems to subtract more than it adds. Based on the trailer, though, it looks like you've done an excellent job with what you had, and even managed to make it stylish. Congrats Brandon and whoever else worked on this.

azazel
10-27-2003, 10:15 PM
Basing on trailer I'd say some shots are really impressive. If it was fun to do - the better, that is what matters :)

lone
10-28-2003, 01:06 AM
can't watch trailers at work, but the stills look great - i'll watch it.

IT'S AN ACTION FLICK - WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING, WAR AND PEACE?

jum'bok
10-28-2003, 03:00 AM
best part of that whole trailer:

"come on we've got to somehow get past this 12 foot wall and rescue our guy from the firing squad!"
"sir, we're in a helicopter, can't we just fly over it?"
"stfu private, don't you know anything about military TACTICS? we're goin THROUGH that sumbitch!"

http://www.neuroticana.com/images/rammingspeed.jpg

:applause: :applause: :applause:

some movies are worth seeing just for the effects. i might not see it at my favorite expensive theater, but i'm sure i'll see it. nice to see a movie that uses max at all these days, gotta go out and show support!

BrandonD
10-28-2003, 04:11 AM
Actually that shot isn't a rescue shot. That's the bad guy's chopper out of control.

jum'bok
10-28-2003, 05:47 AM
yeah i figured it was something reasonable like that, i just couldn't help it :)

slaughters
10-28-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Morganism
... Working with lower budget effects can be tough, more often than not it seems to subtract more than it adds... Yes, but a lot of times small budgets can spark creativity and you end up with better films. The original Star Wars and Halloween were each considered low budget films, and I would argue that both are better movies than any of their sequals.

Morganism
10-28-2003, 02:49 PM
small budgets can spark creativity and you end up with better films.
True, true.

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