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View Full Version : ETM 1st FUBears short (silly violence warning)


DaddyMack
11-21-2004, 07:14 PM
Oooh hello:thumbsup:
How cool, finally an animation wip section and here's lil old me, first in line
For those of you who haven't seen my wip thread, FUBears is my current training ground to hone my genereal skills in Maya5, especially focusing in on really devloping my animation skillset. I'm just over 3 months into it (initiated 16-09-04) and just under 2minutes into the animation...

Here's a coupla shots of the shorts current rendering state
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~emwong/indoors.jpg
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~emwong/outdoors.jpg

But we're here to see some animation aren't we...

So here's a link, it's it bit under 2mins long
6.3mb Quicktime, right click- save target as

ETM_19_11_04.mov (http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~emwong/ETM_19_11_04.mov)

Feel free to critique absolutely any aspect of the animation as I just wanna ensure that it's not only done to my standards, but that it appeals to other like minded individuals, so please, give the clip a look and rip my technique apart, or let me know what you see as its strengths...awww go on...;)

Thanks cgtalkers

furre
11-22-2004, 10:02 AM
OMGOMGWTFBBQLOL1STREPLY!!!11shiftonetwotwelve

*ahem*

I think you could tone down a lot of movements, especially in shot 18, 20 and 21. The master-character's movements are exaggerated to the point where he looks drunk or something (I'm not saying exaggeration is bad, but there's just too much of it, imho). Also, in shot 21, the bad guy's jumping looks very un-finished (looks a bit like you wanted him to bounce X times but didn't have enough time to do it properly). Shot 24 has a lot of weird arm movements as well.

Of course, this could be what you're going for, just giving you my thoughts on it.:)

Wilson-3d
11-22-2004, 02:51 PM
Hello. Well you picked a great topic to hone those animation skills. Lots of fun shots. I think the animation looks like is has had about two passes on it and is ready for a third. It looks like you are not taking advantage of the graph editor to get some nice ease in and ease out on the animation. A lot of the movements are the same speed instead of and arm snapping up and sweeping across it is just floating across. I think that is the main thing-that a lot the movements have a float to them. Always hard to give them weight. I would focus on the arch of the movements in general more and the ease in and east out of poses and movements. Also dynamic poses and donít be afraid to hold a pose for 6+ frames. Check out some walks too. The Animators Survival kit by Richard Williams goes over and over them.
Shot 23 is my favorite. Great camera move! Also like the part where the bear punches the bag and knocks the other bear behind it down. Keep plugging away.
:thumbsup:

Mungo J
11-22-2004, 05:42 PM
quality idea mate, i really like the blind master bear, and kung-fu is certainly an animation challenge!

can't add any crit as the 2 replies so far have pointed out great technical advice, but overall i personally don't enjoy the nearly constant (and somewhat vague - but that's covered in ease-in/out advice already given) nodding motion of the bears, but maybe it's a reference i just didn't get.

are you at an animation school/uni? i have seen some of your earlier posts but am all confused with cgTalks changes so managed not to be able to find out.

man, you've had 150+ views and im the 3rd reply!?!
this place ain't right, surely everybody has an opinion?
opinions are what people who start a thread are after, so i think crediting such extensive work like yours with a reply is sort of duty, do you wish for more replies? i know i would.

good stuff, keep it up.

DaddyMack
11-23-2004, 10:21 AM
Thank you folk muchly for taking time to rip at my animation:thumbsup: much appreciated.

BTW I'm completely self taught so if I come across as a complete nong trying to understand some things, please excuse me, my brain's getting really full...

I'm so gald I numbered these shots and that you folk are using them...cheers

@The Electric Monk; Yeah a few people have commented on 18, 20, 21, I may tone them down a bit but I kinda like seefu's enthusiasm in those shots. Your take on the jumping in shot 21 is spot on and I'll change the timing of it, and in shot 24 Seefu looks like he's swatting flies...He's not supposed to...Thanks for the help mate

@Wilson 3d; You're right, the animation has had 1-3 passees one each shot...I was hoping to get away with it...will be digging right in for a coupla days and tweaking curves...
Q? dynamic poses? please explain...paused...I think I get it...This short is all done 'straight ahead' (not pose to pose) and much of the dialog scenes are not storyboarded and there is a whole lotta ad-lib going on, The next short will be a pose to pose based project
Thanks for pinning the floatiness of the action. I'm hoping the curve tweekin will remedy it...I know it needs a tonne of work, that's why I'm here, your crits help heaps. Thanks a bundle

@Mungo J; Challenging it is, seemed like a good idea at the time...3 months now and almost 2 mins of average animation...What is it you mean by 'nodding', sorry, I don't understand.
As for schooling...I've a family to feed, and I'm putting the Mrs thru UNI, no time, I'm a freelance industrial/ graphic designer-housewife who teaches himself animation by night...fully self taught...
Ahhh replies, 1 in 50 is pretty standard so far for my threads, I'm just stoked when people like yourself invest some time in helping me better my work. Thanks heaps Mungo

Don't be shy now get in and rip at sumdumguys animation folks, he wants you to, no need to be cushy, straight up honest criticism helps me immensely.

Thanks for your support:thumbsup:

Wilson-3d
11-23-2004, 04:07 PM
Hi Sumdumguy. Man that makes me laugh every time. About the dynamic poses. While they are arguably better and or easier to achieve in pose to pose you can still get some in straight ahead. By dynamic I just mean the energy and pose itself. The pic that you have at the top. He looks like he just knocked the other bear down and is in an action stance. If the hip was over one foot more (in this pic perhaps hte bears right) and the back was arched in the direction of the other foot to keep him balanced. Then say the arms were both sticking out on either side in a kung-fu pose making sure they are not symmetrical the pose would be more interesting and have a better silhouette. O.k. then after he hits the guy he quickly flows into that pose and holds for a second to emphasize-like when Bruce Lee would stand there flexed and let out a massive WWHHHAAAAOOOO right after he hit the guy like a ton of bricks. Then he eases out of that pose and is on to the next sucka about to get beat down. I think some holds like this would add to you animation and improve the timing. Anyway hope that helps. Not trying to get to detailed on you. I have a looooong way to go myself but you sounded like you were asking for it.

DaddyMack
11-23-2004, 06:50 PM
Hello again Wilson 3d, thanks for clearing that up...I'd heard the term but never really knew what it meant...BTW your description made me laugh my coffee out my nose first thing in the morning (well done) And yes I am asking for it so no need for kid gloves, I'm a grownedup :blush: and I'm far from precious...

Back soon with some cleanups and hopefully some progress...


Thanks again for your time and energy:thumbsup:, it helps immensely

Mungo J
11-23-2004, 07:12 PM
hey sumdumguy,

i'm impressed at your level of devotion considering your holding down a job, im at uni studying animation and half the time i can't seem to find enough time to animate!

by nodding i was just talking about the forward and back motion of the shoulders and heads of the bears (shots like 9, 14 and 24), it seems a little like they are trying to eccentuate speech, but too vaguely if they are - but i'm no good at crit, since i'm yet to become good at animation!

it's probly a silly thing to worry 'bout - just something i thought looked a bit out of place,
any way, keep it up man, and good luck.

skillet
11-23-2004, 09:24 PM
I like the camera angles

but the animation makes it feel like they are all drunk
if it wernt for the presents of feet I would feel like they are all floating

Did you pose to pose and just hit spline ? for curves and clamp for feet ?

the stereotype voice overs is sorta funny
I think you should go all out if you persue this project
like camera angle and movements

like QT did in Kill Bill 2

really hit those poses too
cheack out Killer Bean II as well if you havent already

I think this project could be fun if you don't rush it

later
AW

DaddyMack
11-24-2004, 01:29 AM
Back again, taken a day off to try and really organise this stuff. getting there...

@ Mungo J; Aaaah yep I see what you mean re 'nodding', added to todo list, thanks

@A.Wehrmeister; I agree with the whole floating teddies issue and am currently trying to resolve it. This whole short is done 'straight ahead' (noposetopose) hence the lack of strong poses. I'm trying to nail down a workflow from pencil sketch to final product. That, and some anim prac was my main intention 3 months ago...hmm need to prioritise...yes I'm rushing it a bit...ok, a lot...but I'm mega learning at the same time... Thanks for your suggestions, will fully take them into consideration:thumbsup:

I'm struggling a bit getting the timing etc right for the first 2mins so I moved onto the next shots, here's a link, lemme know what you think...Am I getting closer?...

Hah.mov (http://www.homepages.ihug.com.au/~emwong/Hah.mov) link now works

Thanks for your support

DaddyMack
11-24-2004, 04:32 AM
Hi all, here's just the 2nd pass on Hah under 1mb

hahpass2.mov (http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~emwong/hahpass2.mov)

anyone care to have a look and lemme know?

wallabee
11-24-2004, 06:52 AM
i think your focus on animation correction is misplaced right now. if anything i feel the fight scene between the assailent and the old master is the strongest part of the piece- where your weakness lies is in your walkcycles at the beginning of the animation. they're really distracting due to the fact that you're not push even the idea of the fact that they're walking- they seem to just half-float/stumble across the floor. take that section, fix it up, and you'll be ten times closer to your final goal.

as suggested before, animator's survival kit has a lot of great walk-cycles that have been broken down into 1 or 3 frame segments. you should really take a look at it, i think it'd help worlds with your self-teaching. you can find the book probably at your local barnes and nobles for under 30 dollars.

Wilson-3d
11-24-2004, 02:17 PM
I think that is working much better! He looks like he is talking with a prupose. Great job of going back and tweaking. In other shots don't be afraid to let the character stand with just some subtle movements if they need to. Inertia - an object will be at rest untill acted on by an outside force. Keep it up!

skillet
11-24-2004, 04:56 PM
better

why not try to hold the hands in the air pose for a few frames
then woosh them foward stop pose w/ slight overshoot while he is sayinh hah !!

I think it would be better also to raise one hand in the air and hold it while he says "you cannot beat molitove cocktail <- ??? :) "

to keep the character moving is a good thing. but suttle movements may get the point across better


three main gestures for this scene

hah ! strong -> karate chop

you cannot..... -> finger in the air

then the last being a ready to fight pose

good luck

hey I thnk this is a better approch to this forum
one small fram so that you can nail it down

DaddyMack
11-24-2004, 06:41 PM
Relieved...was beginning to Q? my abilities, really really appreciative for the honest, and tough critcism. Especially from you Wilson 3d and A.Wehrmeister thank you very very much. Your insights into the weaknesses of this animation is permeating my technique on the whole.

@Wallabee; thanks man, I *$#(# hate those walk cycles at the start and I agree that they are the major weakness, there's just so much animation here that it's tricky to prioritise tuning. I think I need a whole night dedicated to corrective and holds.

Molotov name..origin= cocktail..true

"hey I thnk this is a better approch to this forum
one small fram so that you can nail it down"

I agree much! I'm gonna break it down some, cheers

Seefu speaks next and I'm going to really umm try and tone it right down...last dialog before main fight...can't wait...

any suggestions for moves you'd like to see guys...I've a few ideas myself but as yet the fight is still essentially unchoreographed. I've allocated 20-30secs

Kanga
11-25-2004, 04:26 AM
Foo Bears thats a tough one!

Fluffy creatures with no real joints,... man I would only do that if I got paid!:)

One thing tho, you said you were developing your animation skills so I am guessing that you would like to do this full time?

If that is so then making a demo you have no briefing which means coming up with the whole sheebang yourself. The story for instance.

Animation is hard work where you have to put alot into it t get some expression out the other end. A short has to tick along, dead spots are a no no. People switch off very easily because everything (almost) has been seen. Try to cut out the fat. Be ruthless with yourself. Here you could have the bully whack a few bears in the dojo, along comes the master, they get it on and then the hook at the end. Only animate what you need to so you can put heaps of effort into the short pieces to whang the quality up.

Keep em comin.

DaddyMack
11-25-2004, 09:59 AM
Hi Kanga, thanks for taking the time...hahaah, most of what I get paid for barely challenges my grey matter, that's why the task was set. Love to do it all full time but freelance only, have housewifing and childraising priorities...another story

As for this short taking too long to get to the point I 100% agree...I'm even getting impatient...fully agree...A lesson I hope only need to learn once.

Seefu will return after ETM, he's a solid enough character to stick around for awhile me thinks.

Thanks for your support:thumbsup:

DaddyMack
11-26-2004, 03:14 AM
Hey all:) just a quick update of the current shots from Hah-onward.

Quicktime 18seconds, 2.3mb
Right click-save target as

HahtoSooo.mov (http://www.darkspider.org/~sumdumguy/fu/HahtoSooo.mov)

Only one more line before big fight. Please have a look, I tried to tame my motion a bit...will be back soon.

Thanks

SuperHal
12-06-2004, 07:13 PM
Love your FU bears and the dojo

DaddyMack
01-14-2005, 07:43 PM
Cheers SuperHal, and a mega thanks to all else who've supported me in this project. Means a mountain to me :bowdown:I've been 'unplugged' from this project and my lovely machine for a while now and will be fully plugged in again by the end of the Jan 2005. Sorry for makin yuz wait even longer but this takin a break stuff is really good (phase 3 of 'my first holiday in 7 years' is about to start) But, I'll be back ASAP

Thanks all

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