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pixel mixer
11-19-2004, 09:36 AM
i made the jump from maya to XSI last month when i bought foundation. the tutorials are really great and so far is quite a ride.

it's another world to me. the concepts of 3d animation are the same but the workflow is way different.

maya vs xsi first look:
- render region kicks IPR ass
- selecting in xsi is better than maya
- transform tools are better
- more deformations in XSI but less control than in maya (more if you use weight maps)
- without scripting particles are a joke in XSI - but really easy to use
- subdivisions in XSI differ from maya, lacks local refinement that maya has
- poly tools better than maya (way better)
- texturing in XSI rocks
- hypershade kicks renderview's ass - the whole concept of materials as properties of anobject, group, partition etc only drives me crazy in XSI, maya was way open to this
- overrides are a dream in XSI in maya is not even worth mention it
- render passes in maya are just plain stupid, in XSI it's a dream come true
- cloth is fast and pretty on in foundation, but i got problems with coliisions
- no painFX in XSI less pain
- lights not that controlable as in maya
- maya rocks in connecting stuff around, the node based concept is cool but it lacks the flexibility of houdini, going back and forth in history is easy in maya but having complete control of all ops in maya is not that easy. you can only reorder history in maya up to a point, in XSI it really shines, doing enveloping/skinning and changing the original geometry is very easy no reenveloping is necessary.

my firts look is that XSI is more artist oriented. i have'nt got into scripting yet. i might change my opinion about XSI as a TD dream tool.

any other opinions from ex maya people?
i would love hearing opinions from ex maya TDs that swithced over to XSI

thank you

Eraq
11-19-2004, 10:02 AM
http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=13556;start=9

Its also some thoughts about XSI v. Maya

Erik

Cometsoft
11-19-2004, 01:05 PM
I don't have a very thorough list, but I've been going back and forth between them for modeling and texturing.

The XSI poly/subd tools are great. I love the flexiblity of the transform tool reference planes and objects, edges, etc.

Two things I miss from Maya are the ability to use Photoshop Layers (I know it can be done in XSI advanced) and I much prefer the Maya image planes for reference images. XSI's are kind of a pain.

DimitrisLiatsos
11-19-2004, 03:43 PM
Well i use both Maya and XSI...XSI the last month or more......

- XSI polygon tools kick Maya 's polygon tools butt way hard...
- Maya's Nurb Tools Kick XSI's nurbs tools butt way hard too...
- Between XSI's RenderTree ..well up to now i prefer Hypershade in Maya...althought RenderTree in XSI is very cool and understable to everyone i think...i will have to comment more on this after some time..

- Subdivision modeling in XSI more easy and less painfull but i kinda like the more control Maya gives in some points...

- XSI's Mental Ray works better than Maya's adaptation.

- Maya can handle much bigger polycount in a scene than XSI (just my tests say so.)
_ XSI's viewport shading modes kick butt...this is tottaly cool stuff

- Glows in Maya are much better and good looking than XSI's(at least to my point of knowledge)

- Some shaders issues in XSI come to be cooler and better in a more easy way that in Maya.

- Dynamics and Particle systems in Maya ..i think are way better in control and expandability than in XSI

In general idea i have to admit although i love my Maya ..i am also becoming a crazy fun of XSI....damn cool and good app...


...hope it helps your survey ...:)

pixologie
11-19-2004, 04:21 PM
I completely switched from Maya to XSI because of its Polygon Modelling and Character Animation tools and the workflow/interface. First I missed the Hotbox, because I worked only with that..but hey, XSI has more intuitive workflow ;)

Doublecrash
11-19-2004, 06:11 PM
I completely switched from Maya to XSI because of its Polygon Modelling and Character Animation tools and the workflow/interface. First I missed the Hotbox, because I worked only with that..but hey, XSI has more intuitive workflow ;)
Same here. Switched for the same reason (and for the incredible price-drop of XSI Foundation) and I'm really happy with it. Frankly, the only thing I'm really missing of Maya are the PaintFX.

I find myself much more at ease with the RenderTree rather than Hypershade.

Poly modeling in XSI is waaaaaaay better than in Maya.

Integration with MentalRay is smooth as silk in XSI, not quite that in Maya.


Stefano

Rumr
11-19-2004, 10:58 PM
I switched from maya to xsi as well!

reasons.

XSI tools are flawless for me out the box. maya for me is all plug ins - scripts blah.
XSI interface is so clean and straight to the point. mayas is like a kids book.
XSI shortcuts are nicely done. maya takes to long i can finish a project in xsi in half the time.

all i know is XSI4 for me is the greatest 3d app. The only thing that bugs me is maya is like the mother of 3d and more studios have maya.

I really want to stay in XSI and master it.

thats my 2 cents.
id like to hear more :D

ThirdEye
11-19-2004, 11:46 PM
I've been learning XSI for some time and now i'm in the process of learning Maya. I have to say XSI is more user friendly and probably more artist oriented. Maya on the other hand seems much more powerful for certain tasks. Poly modeling is a lot better in XSI, viceversa NURBS modeling tools in Maya kick XSI's (and there's also the subdivision surfaces option, which isn't present in XSI). The interface in XSI looks smarter, there's no hotbox, no marking menus, the rightclick menus aren't well done IMHO, but there are many tricks that help your artist life (for example the fact ctrl moves all the colour sliders at the same time, the sliders in general, the mmb to recall the last tool you used from any menu and so on...). Maya's PaintFX looks cool and all, same about Fluids, but XSI on the other hand has the Fx Tree which is just a dream. The area where Maya kicks XSI in the ass (IMHO) is the nodes - scene management area. The Hypershade is just way superior to XSI's Rendertree, you can even bring in any node from the Hypergraph and the iconed nodes help a lot. The Hypergraph is something XSI doesn't even have, the Schematic View can't really be compared to Maya's HG. The Outliner and the Explorer are quite different, matter of taste i think, the XSI Explorer is very smart tho. Generally i found XSI to be better at rendering, at least the integration with Mental Ray is flawless, it gave me some problems in Maya.

RayenD
11-19-2004, 11:57 PM
Worked a lot in maya and XSI. I don't touch anything else than these two.
- character rigging and animation tools - XSI wins.
- scripting - XSI wins (javascript & phyton, everything is scriptable, even menus etc.. people just don't use it that widely like in maya, because there is no need or it's a bit harder)
- rendering - a tie. XSI -> passes, rendertree, render region, MR integration. Maya -> renderman "integration" (liquid, mayaman, MTOR), better lighting controls.
- dynamics and particles - Maya wins big here.
- interface - I'd say it is a tie but only when I turn off all the icons Maya displays by default. I like channel boxes in Maya.
- polygon/subd modelling - XSI a winner.
And yes, I agree XSI is more artist oriented, but if you dig in a little, it's even more customizable and "TDable" than Maya.

Both are great apps and both are in different league than the rest. Both can coexist in one pipeline, not without the problems, but with much less problems than other stuff. I enjoy working in both. I am going to purchase Maya for my personal use very soon I think.

roger3d
11-20-2004, 08:11 AM
Worked a lot in maya and XSI. I don't touch anything else than these two.
- character rigging and animation tools - XSI wins.
- scripting - XSI wins (javascript & phyton, everything is scriptable, even menus etc.. people just don't use it that widely like in maya, because there is no need or it's a bit harder)
- rendering - a tie. XSI -> passes, rendertree, render region, MR integration. Maya -> renderman "integration" (liquid, mayaman, MTOR), better lighting controls.
- dynamics and particles - Maya wins big here.
- interface - I'd say it is a tie but only when I turn off all the icons Maya displays by default. I like channel boxes in Maya.
- polygon/subd modelling - XSI a winner.
And yes, I agree XSI is more artist oriented, but if you dig in a little, it's even more customizable and "TDable" than Maya.

Both are great apps and both are in different league than the rest. Both can coexist in one pipeline, not without the problems, but with much less problems than other stuff. I enjoy working in both. I am going to purchase Maya for my personal use very soon I think.
Hi RayenD,

If you are a xsi/maya generalist it's a pain to keep switching apps.
If you are a master of one field (anim or modeling or texturing, etc) it's easier.
Since you use both app fluently, do you have any tips?
Did you change short cuts to make life a little easy?
Any tips for those who use both?

RayenD
11-20-2004, 09:05 AM
I am far from fluent in Maya, because I don't use it everyday - only when I have a job which requires it. Quick random tips:

- redefeine Z key in Maya because it's undo :)
- use S key to navigate in XSI, it works very similar to ALT in Maya
- groups in Maya are very different from XSI - more like parenting
- try to forget about using SPACE fro selection in Maya
- Softimage.com has a PDF about transition from Maya to XSI - it works the other way too. Very helpfull. It is in tutorial section.

Strang
11-22-2004, 12:16 AM
(and there's also the subdivision surfaces option, which isn't present in XSI).
model>create>poly mesh> subdivision

makes your selected poly mesh into a subdivision surface.

hitting the num + and - is using the subdivsion algorithm but its approximating it. not actually adding the geometry

unless your speaking of something else.. sub ds are pressent in XSI.

StephanD
11-22-2004, 12:56 PM
Additionally,you could use the 'Local Subdivision Refinement' which is great if you want to smooth only a part of the mesh and/or use Doo-sabin algorithms.

ThirdEye
11-22-2004, 11:41 PM
Strang: am i wrong or your talking about smoothed polys?

]-UnderTOW-[
11-23-2004, 03:54 AM
I was a big Maya user, but with HL2 i thought i should check out XSI, i haven't used it really extensively yet, but XSI is incredable. It's polytools and animation tools (esspecially it's character tools) are just amazing.
I do miss the Hypershade, the rendertree is really confusing. And i really miss how all of Maya's editor's (like graph editor, UVTE, Hypershade, etc) navigation controls are all unified to the viewport's controls. If you Alt+MMB drag to pan in the 3d viewport, that's how it's done in every other editor. XSI's "Help" is pretty 'football-in-the-groin' painful to use :(

Several questions i have about XSI though:
-There are a number of things i'd like to map to keyboard shortcuts that don't appear to be available in the keyboard mapper. Things like wireframe mode, shaded mode, local axis, gimbal/add axis, etc. Is this possible to do via a script or something?
-Can you make the Rectangle Select tool to select polys without having to encompass the entire polygon?
-Is it possible to dispaly keyframes in the time slider?
-When resizing a viewport, can you remove thing that covers the viewport to match your aspect ratio?

All in all, i'm very happy with XSI but like ALL packages, it's not perfect (to me, it get's pretty close though ;))

ThirdEye
11-23-2004, 01:33 PM
-UnderTOW-[']
-Can you make the Rectangle Select tool to select polys without having to encompass the entire polygon?
Use rectangle raycast

StephanD
11-23-2004, 02:30 PM
'Z' is good for navigation in orthographic and flat views such as render tree etc...

'S' also works and is the one you want to use in the perpective/camera

Keep an eye at the bottom layout for explanations on mouse button usage.


Toggling between shaded and wire can be done by first selecting say the shaded view then switch to wireframe,now all you have to do is to middle click it to toggle back and forth,note that it works with all available editors.I think it's faster than a hotkey because your eyes stay on the UI all the time,that's the thing with Xsi.

BadCRC
11-23-2004, 03:30 PM
]-UnderTOW-[:

-When resizing a viewport, can you remove thing that covers the viewport to match your aspect ratio?

Set the viewport to 'user' instead of 'camera'.
Or you could click the little camera-icon on top of your viewport-> properties and adjust the picture ratio.

Setting the viewport to 'user' will make it auto adjust the picture ratio to fit the size of your viewport.

]-UnderTOW-[
11-23-2004, 11:35 PM
Thanks for the help guys :)
I just tried Rectangle Raycast, and still seems to want me to encompass the entire polys in the rectangle to select them :\

I use Z for undo (rebound a lot of the keys, to match what i use in Maya except some of the more important XSI ones (like Ctrl+K, Enter, etc)) so for the other editors i bound the Z nav tool to S. But it'd just be nice if all the edtiors used S and the same mouse button combinations as the viewports. Also, IMO i think click and drag zooming is better over just click RMB/MMB.

Yeah, i knew about the MMB click on menus (thank you 3d buzz) and it's a real nice feature. I'm just used to 4=wireframe mode and 5=shaded mode :\. Is there a way at all to assign scripts to keybinds? For example i could bind 'SetDisplayMode "Views.ViewB.UserCamera", "shaded"' to 5 or something.

Thanks for the info on User view, i'll be using this from now on. I thought it was a moveable orthographic view like Max's User view :)

ThirdEye
11-24-2004, 12:01 AM
-UnderTOW-[']I just tried Rectangle Raycast, and still seems to want me to encompass the entire polys in the rectangle to select them :\
whoops sorry i misunderstood your question, have you already tried the freeform selection (it was f8 or f7, can't remember) and the raycast (f10)?

]-UnderTOW-[
11-24-2004, 12:24 AM
I mainly use normal raycast for selection (esspecially useful for edge selection), but sometimes i need to just box select a bunch of polys and having to encompass the entire polygon can be a bit annoying/difficult. Maybe i just need to get used to it (these are mainly just things that i'm used to from maya and max). Haven't used freeform selection much, but if the rectangle select tool could work in a similar fasion (select whatever poly the line/box touches), that would be nice :)

Ablefish
11-24-2004, 02:04 AM
Raycast Polygon selection was one of the first things I fell in love with in XSI coming from maya. One button to activate, paint your selection, piece of cake. I couldn't go back to clicking on the poly center dots...

I also use Z as undo - so what I did was remap the navigation in all the editors to S. It's more consistant with the viewports that way. I left shift-z as a region zoom, but you lose some of the control the Zoom key gave with zooming horizontally or vertically in editors.

And any command that registers down in the script editor can be made into a button/script. These can then be found in the Custom Scripts section of the Keyboard Mapping page. Apply whatever shortcuts you want.

One other thing, I remapped Repeat to 'g'. That makes it a lot more convenient than '.' or whatever the default is. Even quicker than middle clicking.

Cheers,

]-UnderTOW-[
11-24-2004, 02:28 AM
I bound the navigation tool that's usually under S in the editors to shift+S, unless it's something better.

Thanks for the info on the Custom Scripts Commands :)

Strang
11-26-2004, 06:07 PM
@ThirdEye

(and there's also the subdivision surfaces option, which isn't present in XSI).
your orginial comment..

your saying subdivision surfaces are not an option.. they are under polymesh>subdivison
it creates another object that is a subd of your selection.

the numeric plus and minus is what i think your calling "smooth" its full name in XSI is geometry approximation. its approximating the subdivison algorithm but not actually making another object or actually adding the geometry that makes it smooth. thus its just "smoothing" the mesh.

sorry for the reduncey if you knew this already. but i think you didn't know XSI has actual subdivison surfaces. not just the smooth on the num plus and minus..

later

-Strang

Robert Bateman
12-30-2004, 05:03 AM
I couldn't go back to clicking on the poly center dots...
from the menu in maya,

"window"->"settings/preferences"->"preferences"

click on "selection" on the left, click on "select faces with whole face".

my opinion may be out of place here, because i'm a coder.... but hey.

I have to support both xsi and maya, so wrote exporters/importers that could transfer all the scene data between the two (sorry guys, NDA). I found that the Xsi could handle far more polys than maya. Maya is setup much more for flexibility, where as xsi is set up for workflow speed; and with any piece of code there is always a trade off between speed vs. flexilibilty.

I have to say that the Maya API is far nicer to use than the xsi equivalent. scripting in xsi is nicer than mel, however open up the xsi SDK and you enter what i can only describe as a world of pain. So, as long as xsi does everything you need, then go with xsi it'll be quicker. If you need some heavy customisation of your workflow, maya's probably the one you want.

If i were an animator i'd definately prefer Xsi's workflow, though if i had to start hacking it to do things it was never designed to do, i'd be screaming at it ;)

There's very little in Xsi that i haven't already added into maya.... if you have a decent tools coder close at hand, you'd possibly change your opinion of maya's workflow; and it keeps me in a job ;)

el_diablo
12-30-2004, 05:28 AM
Strang, what people are talking about (if I read correctly) and what XSI most definatly doesnt have is hierarchical subdivision surfaces. Thats what Maya has as one option, other is 'normal' poly smooth.

I must say the first post in the thread is one of most acurate Maya vs. XSI lists I ever seen. I applaude the poster for digging deep into XSI before posting.

el_diablo
12-30-2004, 05:52 AM
And UnderTow, no you cant assign hotkeys to viewmodes. There were some scripts way back when I was puzzled by this and investigated, try to find them on XSI netview under mcp&ui then go to keyboard mapping and custom script commands and modes will be there.

EDIT:

Too bad I dont usually trust my memory, I just checked out the script and this is what I wanted to add above but wasnt certain I remember correctly: The problem is its not possible to get window under the cursor so scripts only change rendercamera display modes or object display modes.

StefanA
12-30-2004, 11:12 AM
I use maya and xsi on a regular basis (depending on which studio and project I'm working on). The ONLY thing I change in hotkeys is the "S" key in Maya. This evil button is bad for two reasons.

1.) It interfers with my "XSI fingers"
2.) It sets keyframes on channels that you dont need to keyframe (F-Curves will be a mess)

Other than that I keep the keyboard mapping intact on both applications. I also recommend this if you are a freelancer to learn both keyboard mappings. It's not very often you will be able to sit at one and the same computer all the time, and depending on how the system is set up you might end up in a nightmare changing hotkeys all the time. And if you tend to switch companys after every project it's even more important for your productivity speed to learn both.

best regards
stefan andersson

P.S. Happy New Year everyone! :)

Corrupt3d
02-25-2005, 05:29 AM
i downloaded the trial version of Foundation, and I must admit that I am impressed...im not sure which one i like better, but I have been using Maya for a while and am quite used to it.



Does XSI not have an option to move CV's by putting in coordinates like Maya?

JDex
02-25-2005, 06:08 AM
Does XSI not have an option to move CV's by putting in coordinates like Maya?

Select a point on the curve... and type in the world coordinates you want in the XYZ text inputs on the transform toolbar. You can also type in basic expressions i.e.:

X 1.2-
Y 3.1*
Z 37/

StefanA
02-25-2005, 08:25 AM
i downloaded the trial version of Foundation, and I must admit that I am impressed...im not sure which one i like better, but I have been using Maya for a while and am quite used to it.


Be happy with using both :) No need to "replace" or "chose". Use each package for it's strenght (which is how it's done in production everyday).

best regards
stefan andersson

cresshead
02-25-2005, 10:50 AM
there's a couple of niggles with xsi which i'm hoping will be put in place in a future version...

1.changing vieport display type [wire, shadee etc] by a hot key like i have in 3ds max for example
2.having in the viewport "gizmos" for operations like bend, twist deformers in the viewport would be great
3.having the abilaty to use/set "units" such as feet, inches, cm, m .km etc...without this the app feel rather usless for any serious work where you need to build to a specific size..strange enough there were units in the experience version of xsi so this should be a no brainer to put back into xsi..and would bring it upto every other apps standard features needed for a 3d app...and yeah i know you can decide what ever you want is "a unit" but if your sharing data or merging objects this can/may get real messy with other artists calling one unit a foot and other one unit a meter..
4.having a left and right view to select rather than the current workaround we have to get a left and right view...just seems strange not having one from a seletion point of view.

i'd like to add that the modeling toolset in xsi is top banana...so these things listed above would just be the icing on the cake and the only real "must have" is the units which has already been created by avid but not placed in their "for sale" apps just their freeware currently...also for those trying to work with dynamics you should use 1 unit as a decemter [10cm] that's how xsi interprets a real world scale..if your working in feet you'll need a measurement converter to work out your size in xsi currently.

TetraLynx
09-18-2005, 08:17 PM
I'm hearing a lot about how XSI has waaaaay better poly tools than Maya. What constitutes waaaay better? Enquiring minds want to know.

Strang
09-18-2005, 08:50 PM
for me, until maya 7.0, it was the selections.. loop ring and range (which maya doesn't have).
other than that, the workflow. simple keys that would allow for edge extrusions. i live by sticky keys...

a little FYI for people using sticky keys. it doesn't work consistently BUT you can press and hold down 3 keys and use 3 levels of tools... hit "I" select an edge, press and hold V to translate it, while still holding down V press and hold C to rotate. now when you let go of C it will go back to translate. when you release V it will return to raycast edge.

mosted used tools for me are...

ctrl + d on edges or polys
\ to draw new edges
] to split parrellel edges
shift+d to subdivide edges or polys
all the selections
move point tool with alt to weld...
contextual menus
-bridge
-split with split control
-extract polys
-bevel

later

Eraq
09-18-2005, 09:09 PM
I'm hearing a lot about how XSI has waaaaay better poly tools than Maya. What constitutes waaaay better? Enquiring minds want to know.

Having used both Maya and XSI ( I love them both!! ) I must say that the poly tools in XSI is not better than Maya`s. Its just that the hotkeys and so on is much more at hand in XSI giving it a upper hand in terms of workflow.

But if we are talking about Sub-D`s then they are waaaaaay faster in XSI ( Maya 6.5 proved some speed increasements though! )


Erik

StudioJ
09-19-2005, 10:39 AM
Hi!


I'm starting 3d things and now I have to decide what 3d app I should use. I'm really interesting about dynamics/particles and animation things. So, XSI or Maya? Or maybe 3ds max? :o

PiotrekM
09-19-2005, 10:47 AM
particles = only maya
animation in general = xsi

IMHO

StudioJ
09-19-2005, 04:33 PM
How XSI and Maya work together? I'm meaning import/export between those programs. For example, can I animate in XSI and then import it to Maya and there do all particle things? It's that complex?

yog
09-19-2005, 04:53 PM
How XSI and Maya work together? I'm meaning import/export between those programs. For example, can I animate in XSI and then import it to Maya and there do all particle things? It's that complex?There is the FBX plugin from Alias that is good for this type of transfer, or else for a very reasonable price there is the very capable Point Oven plug-in that will handle the transfer very well.

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