New Painter piece (any ideas for scumbling effect?)

[Jinbrown]

Luna,

While I'm not much of a painter myself, and there's more I don't know about painting, than I do know, I see a lot of Painter artists' work.

Your more familiar style of painting is beautiful, and you look completely sure of yourself there. To my eye, your efforts to do more loose, painterly work, just look like you're still unsure of yourself in this new area and mostly how to get the results you want.

Since I'm admittedly ignorant of a lot of painting techniques, and even though I've read about scumbling and have a general idea, can you post some good examples of what you're after? Also, you've mentioned dissatisfaction with Painter's Impasto capabilities a couple of times recently. I'd like to see some good examples of what you would like to do that you're not finding possible in Painter.

It's doubtful I could come up with something you'd be happy with in Painter, since you're far more knowledgable about painting in general than I am, and you've been using Painter for a while. Still, it would help me a lot to know more and possibly help other Painter artists as well, if I can produce some brush variants that come closer than the default variants do for both Impasto in general and scumbling specifically.

In any case, it would be fun trying, so thanks in advance if you can show me what you mean.

[Lunatique]

Thanks for the interest and the offer to help! I really think Corel should pay you a salary--you've done far more for them in terms of publicity and customer support than any of their paid employees combined (or so it seems)

Here's a page I put together to show you the kind of stuff that Painter won't be able to achieve, no matter how hard they try:

http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/temp/brushwork_examples/brushwork_examples.htm

[Jinbrown]

Thanks for putting together some examples. I'm off to take a look now.

If I come up with anything even halfway decent, I'll let you know. Not that you'll use it, but just so you'll see what happened (if anything).

Thanks for the challenge. ;)

[GoldCoin]

Hi Luna..

First, I want to say "Thank you" for all of the Painter help, especially the sharing of your brushes to us beginners. Your web site is wonderful!! I keep checking back to see if you might add a new tutorial using Painter 8, and now maybe 9...

When you mention the word "Scumbling" thought of Steve Friedman. Have you ever taken a look at his technique? He offers a brush and "scumbling paper" for Painter.

http://www.digitalartmasterworks.com/PainterDemo/adding_scrumming_effect_to_backg.htm

Maybe this will do the trick...

[Ben Sones]

I avoid using any impasto effects, because I've found that they alter colors in sometimes unsatisfying ways. Try this--save an image as a TIFF, then re-open it and paint a stroke on it with an impasto brush. Notice how the whole image just turned a little bit lighter? I'm guessing that it's because of the way that Painter simulates the shading on the brushstrokes. Whatever the reason, I don't like it.

And to be honest, I'm not a real big fan of faux painterly effects like that, anyway. The reason I like Painter's natural media brushes is because they feel familiar, and react in a way that feels very... well, natural. I have no interest in trying to make a digital painting look like a traditional painting, though. Just let it be a digital painting. Instead of obsessing over what it isn't, have fun messing around with what it is. There are lots of techniques that you can do digitally that aren't possible (or at least aren't feasible) in traditional media. If you want to work with impasto effects, use oils. Digital media isn't a good tool for creating that sort of effect, any more than, say, watercolors would be.

And don't feel bad about using traditional media, either. There's no need to marry yourself to one tool. I do a lot of both traditional and digital work, and I enjoy both.

[Lunatique]

GoldCoin - Thanks. I haven't made any for later versions because I became a mod here--and i totally forgot to add a link to the Painter tips section at my site to point people to this Painter Forum for the latest information/tips.

Ben - Yeah, the changing of value in impasto mode is quite annoying.

I agree with everything you said, but it would be nice if later versions of Painter can get even closer to simulating the effects that makes natural mediums so captivating and spontaneous. I would rather not have such a drastic trade-off when I'm working in digital. (Yes, I'm the type that likes to have his cake and eat it. I never understood the saying; why would you have a cake and not eat it? LOL)

[Jinbrown]

Hi,

I know you guys who don't like, or are not satisfied with, Painter's Impasto probably know this already, but there are several ways to adjust the effect:

Brush Controls' Impasto palette or Brush Creator's Impasto section contains the following controls:

Draw to: Color, Depth, Color and Depth

Depth Method: Uniform, Erase, Paper, Original Luminance, Weave Luminance

Check boxes: Invert and Negative Depth

Depth slider

Depth Expression: None, Velocity, Direction, Pressure, Wheel, Tilt, Bearing, Rotation, Source, Random

Direction slider (available when Depth Expression option is Direction)

Smoothing slider

Plow slider

Also, overall lighting is controlled using Canvas > Surface Lighting, even after Impasto painting has been done. This dialog box contains the following controls:

Appearance of Depth - Amount, Picture, Shine, and Reflection sliders

Light Controls - Brightness, Conc, and Exposure sliders

Lighting Sphere - with adjustable light indicator (small circle that can be moved to change angle of lighting)

Display slider

Check boxes - Enable Impasto and Show Light Icons

Light Color - Color Square that can be clicked to open the Color Picker

Layers palette's Depth Method options:

In the upper right corner of the Layers palette is the Depth Method drop down list of options used to control how Impasto on one Layer interacts with Impasto on another Layer below that Layer.

These Depth Method options are Ignore, Add, Subtract, and Replace.

Impasto Icon:


Impasto depth and lighting for the entire image is held on the Canvas. Impasto depth and lighting for the entire image can be turned off and on by clicking the Impasto icon in the upper right corner of the image window.

Painter 8 and Painter IX:

Read Help > Help Topics > Contents tab > Impasto chapter to learn more about controlling Impasto painting.

Painter 7:

Read Help > Help Topics > Painter 7 Help > Impasto chapter to learn more about controlling Impasto painting.

Painter 6:

Read Help > Impasto to open the Impasto PDF and learn more about controlling Impasto painting.

[Gord-MacDonald]

I think the bottom line is that any creative enviroment by definition has limits. There simply are some things that are not going to work well using current computer technology.

Music is perhaps one of the few arts which (argueably) does not suffer from the computers limitations. (music is not simulated on a computer).

Interestingly (perhaps ironically) I looked at the "traditional" works you provided to make your point about the failure of current CG technologies to simulate tactile (painter) qualities, and was able to identify with the issue you raised immediatley - in spite of the fact that I was looking at pixels on my computer screen!

Hmm, isn't it a strange world we live in?

Gord MacDonald

ps: I don't think there is anything quite like expriencing a painted masterpiece in situ - a lesson I learned on my first trip to NYC, (and all of its great museums) so many years ago.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.