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Grey
08-24-2002, 03:54 AM
http://www.steve-weber.com/php/openpic.php?id=17

Steve Weber posted a female torso up in the gallery, so I went to his website and found the above image.

Noted on it is that he used almost entirely procedurals...

Weber's a max user, but the question is can anyone here figure out how he did what he did in a fashion that it could be translated to most other aplications?

BTW, I"m talking about the skin shaders :D

Not worried about anything else...

derwolpertinger
08-24-2002, 02:15 PM
looks amazing. hmm...when my comic character is done i'll try to create such a skin shader in c4d.

Grey
08-24-2002, 08:14 PM
<----jumped over to bhodiNut to ask those guys too, BTW :D

leigh
08-26-2002, 08:32 AM
Aaaah very nice :)
Actually, I truly believe that this look can be reproduced without any special shaders and stuff.
I'm not sure what procedurals Cinema has, but I know that they generally are quite similar from package to package, and I know that I could reproduce this in LW, using only procedurals.
The trick here is to use procedurals in combination with black and white images, that you use as alpha maps for the different procedurals - ie. to place those freckles on the cheeks, etc.
:)
This is a cool method that I suggest you guys try ;)

Tumerboy
08-26-2002, 04:20 PM
You could also avoid images all together by setting up weight maps where you want freckles, or where the skin would be oilier and shinier, etc.

leigh
08-26-2002, 04:23 PM
Yeah, that too :)

Grey
08-26-2002, 04:41 PM
weight maps???

Please explain this to me. I have no idea what that is.

Tumerboy
08-26-2002, 04:49 PM
Weight mapping is a way of applying a value (in LW it's -100 to 100) to any given vertex.

So, you could set up a weight map where everything on the head is at -100, and then the cheeks where you want the freckles, is at 100.


anyway, it's easier for you to just start playing with them, than for me to explain it. . . or Leigh, if you know of a decent tutorial, throw it out:

Anyway

goto the Map tab in modeler, then click on "New Weight map"

Now change your Perspective window's shading to "Weight Shaded"


Now click on the Airbrush on the left, under Wieght &Color.

With the airbrush you can paint the weights.

clicking will move it towards 100
control clicking will move it towards 0
and shift clicking towards -100

you can also right click to change your brush size. or "n" to bring up the size, strength etc.

Hope that helps, if you have any other questions, let us know.

leigh
08-26-2002, 04:53 PM
Weight maps (I think they are called envelopes in Max, but I have no idea, unfortunately, of what they are called in C4D :sad: ) are the settings you apply to your mesh to define how "heavy" the points in the different areas of the model are - of course, this is mostly essential for when you need to animate the model, and therefore set up the bones and rig.
The weight maps control the influence that the bones have on the model, because it allows for weight, and therefore elasticity and movement.

However, LW (and I'm sure other software too) allows you to make weight maps and use them for controlling placement of textures and gradients :)
Almost like an alpha map, in a strange kinda way.

leigh
08-26-2002, 04:54 PM
Ooops Tumerboy beat me to it :p
Hey Tumerboy - you've been extremely useful around here lately - THANKS! :D

Tumerboy
08-26-2002, 04:58 PM
YAY ME!

btw, I use weightmaps a lot to distribute dirt around my scenes. . . weighting the corners of rooms etc hevily and then using that to alpha my dirt.

Grey
08-26-2002, 05:04 PM
Waitaminute!

I totally get what you're talking about now.

In Cinema we have those, but we also have vertex selection, which for some odd reson is a different (but still works with Bones).

I generally use the WAVEFRONT OBJ terminology which is more generic.

Material Groups

leigh
08-26-2002, 05:06 PM
Tumerboy - Yeah weight maps are an excellent, quick and easy way to distribute details ;)
BTW - I'd love to see some of your work :D I went your site, but alas! No gallery! :sad:
Hehehehe "I feel like chicken tonight" - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Someone that worked here very briefly was the editor of those naff commercials with all the people dancing around like chickens - we all laughed behind her back about that song :twisted:

Grey - in LW they also work with point (vertex) selection :) You select the vertices that you want to apply the weight too, and you just adjust it.

Grey
08-26-2002, 05:11 PM
I think Cinema4D developed a lot of their object handling tools around what LightwaveUsers were used to...

leigh
08-26-2002, 05:14 PM
Well, yeah, but I guess all 3D apps begin to become more and more alike as time goes by - software developers would be fools to ignore the tools/options that are popular with artists using software other than theirs, so sooner or later, the same tools inevitably begin to crop up in all the different apps :)

Tumerboy
08-26-2002, 05:46 PM
Well there is a gallery. . . just click on the 3d looking box. . .

Sorry , I guess I need to make it more user friendly. . .

Edit: I'm updating with this year's content right now. . . but it won't be up online for another couple days. most likely

FatAssasin
08-26-2002, 07:03 PM
I did something very similar using only Max procedurals. The main drawback I have is that it's very hard to customize. Like, puuting more red in the checks, or making the nose shinier. Of course, I can use alpha maps for that, but I wanted to see what I could do without going outside of Max. Here's the texture...

http://jhaywood.com/pixels/images/MatSkin.jpg


Does anyone know of the equivalent to texturing with weight maps in Max? It sounds like something that would be very useful.

Grey
08-27-2002, 01:48 AM
impressive :D

I'm still playing around with it,

since I haven't got any of my own figures to use I'm dealing primarily with Poser figures just to test on... (please don't shoot me for that).

You guys have been a great help...

Chico
08-27-2002, 02:18 AM
Does anyone know of the equivalent to texturing with weight maps in Max? It sounds like something that would be very useful.

I belive you are refering to Vertex colouring in Max. Each vertex you will find has the ability to hold values othe than thier poition. Such values are "alpha, Illumination, RGB colour Value" Max has some really good tools for painting on colour values an the like as this is a technique that has been develipoed for games engines. Max being the leading game package has spent alot of time concentrating on these tools.

how would I use them.?

well lets say you have a join at the top of the legm you could select every vertex on the leg and colour it Black. and the rest white. then you would apply a vertex colour map to the blending channels in your material and if configured correctly it will treat the black areas as solid and the white areas as transparent or vise versa.

So in theory you could select you vertexs areound the checks and use that as a mask to apply more reddness.

Hope that clears things up a wee bit for max. But be warned as Im told its a hell of alot less straight foward than Lightwave though.

Tumerboy
08-27-2002, 08:45 AM
Ezakly

FatAssasin
08-27-2002, 05:33 PM
Thanks Chico. Definitely something I'm going to look into.

Grey
08-28-2002, 02:43 PM
Chico, I had also heard that Max had the rather unique ability to have multiple UVMapping... the same set of polygons mapped in two different ways to planar UV so you could apply different types of painted textures to the same set of verts...

is this true?

Chico
08-28-2002, 10:10 PM
Yep this is true Grey. I cant really compare that to other packages as Ive never expolred that materials in them like I have in Max.

What I do know is that in max you can set up to 99 (proably more these days) material channels. these channels can hold any kind of data you need for mapping. So if you need a few cycidar maps etc fire them through. If you want to cover up seams with a simple planar map you can also do this with ease. Further more you can store different vertex colour channels assignments and even different XYZ to UVW channels. All these can be on the same polygon...mesh or whatever.

Max does have a beautiful material control. thouhgits not as fast as it could be and there are issues with thgings like the undo buffer and genral random crashes. Though this seems to be lessened with Max 5.

I saw someone playing in Lightwave the other day and they were doing some impressive things with lkayering textures just like n Photoshop. I must look into that.

One thing about max the drives me nuts is the way it stacks layers in composite maps. The first image you enter is the base one...then next layer, if it has any transparancy it can see through to the layerbelow it....except max puts the icons for every extra layer under the base layer. this means the you are looking up through a layer.....Dose this make any sense.?

Imagine using Photoshop and having your background layer there, and every extra layer you want to see is under it....See what I mean...its just a little confusing on my poor brain:surprised

particle
09-02-2002, 06:06 AM
Tumer: Thanks for the tip on using weight maps for putting dirt around a scene. I haven't used them much yet, but that was only because I didn't know anything useful to use them for. I can see how they can be useful for that application and others similar to it. Thanks again.

Tumerboy
09-02-2002, 06:29 AM
no prob

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