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View Full Version : WIP Fighting Scene Animation help needed


toto poto
11-05-2004, 02:32 PM
hi all

this is a small animation test i did. actually i wanted to concentrate on the animation but i wanted to build a scene, too, which gave me a bit of a headache. i decided for a waterplanet with thin air. i didnīt want it too look tooo realistic but have more of a bright paint/airbrush look. kind of 80īs style:) i did the szene completely in cinema 4d with a little help of bonderland. textures in photoshop. would be nice to get some critics about the scene, the light, the animation and stuff... i think the animation of the characters is ok for now, but somehow it is like the scene eats up the impact of the animation and i donīt know why exactly... i could really need some help with this:)

thorben

the link: http://www.manigma.de/movies/boxer_fertig.mov

http://www.manigma.de/movies/boxer_fertig.gif

http://www.manigma.de/movies/boxer_fertig3.gif

PsionBlue
11-05-2004, 03:18 PM
A few things pop in my head when I wanted it a few times..

1) The characters do not seem to react to each other. They dodge before the punch is thrown.
2) The camera angles either do not stay on the action long enough or do not frame the characters in an interesting way.
3) Some color may solve your problem with blending into the background.

I think it is really cool. The characters have a nice weight. I would love to be able to even attempt something like this. Good work so far!

DaddyMack
11-05-2004, 08:39 PM
Hi toto poto this is very clean work you have. I think the animation could do with a little more exaggeration and snap, the puches don't appear to have as much 'impoact' as they could. As for the scene I think it looks great. If you want it to highlight the animation darken the palette for the scene (except the fighters) and they should reclaim the scene.

Good luck

RaoUUUL
11-06-2004, 01:28 AM
hey.

toto, you are right your animation is ok and it doesnt have as much impact as it could. the animation looks fluid and good but maybe too clean or too routine and expected. the punch then the timed weave the kick then the timed jump. i think it needs more exaggerated movement from point a to point b. example, i think, the flip ends with him landing on his shoulders then he falls to the ground. there is a bit of a struggle shown but if you were really to deliver that impact with squash and stretch it would be more entertaining. and the feet are all always in the same position, accept for the kick, it looks static. you are attempting to liven it up with camera play, i think it makes it more unentertaining, a bit much i think, the action is lost. these might have seemed obvious but i hope it helps, at least a little.

Raoul

toto poto
11-06-2004, 04:04 PM
hi all
thank you for your comments :) . right now i am trying some other cameras and also working
on the textures and lightning. unfortunatly the rendertimes are pretty hight now because of some shaders (10 minutes per frame with szene. i think think iīll render it out in layers...) so itīll take me some time to get you updated
regards
thorben

toto poto
11-08-2004, 03:57 PM
ok, here is an bigger update. i worked on the szene, textures and mood a lot. i also reduced the camera action and finetuned the animation a bit.

thorben

the link:
http://www.manigma.de/movies/kosmos_neu.mov


http://www.manigma.de/movies/kosmos1.gif

http://www.manigma.de/movies/kosmos2.gif

http://www.manigma.de/movies/kosmos3.gif

rony
11-08-2004, 06:59 PM
Looking good. There is a big problem in the staging though. The chracter that jumps over the other guy lands behind him. Meaning he should be facing his back. Then the camera angle changes and they appear face to face. Another thing. On the first kick, the body should slightly move forward by the linertia of the leg. Other than that it's looking good. Keep it up.

toto poto
11-09-2004, 01:15 AM
The chracter that jumps over the other guy lands behind him. Meaning he should be facing his back. Then the camera angle changes and they appear face to face.

actually the jump is correct, but maybe it is too confusing that the characters are looking the same ? or the cut is still not good ? maybe i can figure something out that seperates them in some better way...what do you think about the scene ?

rony
11-09-2004, 01:24 AM
Yes you're right the jump is correct. My bad. The reason why it looked wrong was because of the cut that changes angles at almost 180 degrees. It's very bad to change camera angles with that amount.

Vertizor
11-09-2004, 01:40 AM
Right at the beginning the guy on the left that's ducking the punches... his stomach folds with some unusual creases. Maybe I'm just overly picky, but it will probably be more noticeable at high res.

toto poto
11-09-2004, 04:11 AM
thanks for the comments folks :)

@rony: i guess you are right. when i look at it now, i see the problem. what angle would you recon ? i am realy a noob when it comes to editing. maybe the easiest way to solve this may be to add another cut between the two szenes (what i originally wanted to do)
to break it up a bit ?
@vertizor: maybe this could be a vertex-blur issue...i donīt know if i can redo it easily (using bonderland). unfortunatly i am not able to post a higher resolution (not enough webspace), but it looks ok here...

glassefx
11-11-2004, 02:18 PM
Nice Toto! O.K. - First off its a lot to take in visually which is fine, I just had to watch it about 20 times to be able to make a comment...

They seem to be fighting in gravity much less than here on earth? You mentioned prior that they were on some water planet right? If the gravity is supposed to be lighter than earth then I would NIX the air baloon in the BG. For some reason (at least in my mind) I associate that with TRUE GRAVITY if that makes sense? This gravity only really shows strong within their jumps, they may be punching A little to quickly if examined closely. I like the quick camera cuts/moves but I would let the viewer see more of the "after conscience thought moves" - i.e, more of a jump (slightly), etc. I'd love to see the whole project, It is really done very well! Try to build more anticipation with the lens using traditional (like John Woo) camera techniques and it would make this puppy really shine! I think better Camera moves would do more than the gravity gripe as far as polish... I'd love to see a close-up of a face through a fogged up helmet in a "build antcipation" shot say before a punch, leap or kick!

Peace dude!

toto poto
11-12-2004, 05:38 AM
hi
@glassefx: at your service :) no really, maybe this anticipation shot is a good idea !
i just tried it out...

i worked on the animation a bit more and added a somewhat ending to it, too. please tell me if you think its silly...

heres the link to the update:

http://www.manigma.de/movies/kosmosneu.mov

rony
11-12-2004, 11:32 AM
This is better. The split second where you see him jumping from the next angle removes the confusion. There are a lot of camera changes in a very short period of time though. One thing to keep in mind. This jump is not a regular jump. It's an exagerated jump. The audience doesn't know how far he can jump. So you gotta make sure the audience understands that this is possible. But on the other hand you want to change the camera angle. Here's what you can do. On the very first shot, you can have the camera rotating on the Y axis negatively at a slow rate. On the second, third and fourth shot, switch the camera angle (from right-to-left to _left-to-right). At thispoint, the 3rd, 4th and 5th shot should be offseted by -90 degrees on Y. Another -90 degrees on y for the 6th shot. And the rest is good. You have a vey nice low angle on the 4th shot!
There's another thing I've noticed. The eye focus changes a lot from shot 3 to shot 4. Your eyes are looking more to the left side of the screen at the end of shot 3 where your character is, then on shot 4, you character is positionned on the right side of the screen. It would help a lot to keep the transitions smooth from one shot to another.

Nice work though. I like the effects in the end. Keep it up!

Cheers!!

glassefx
11-17-2004, 02:09 PM
Not Silly!

It's Cool indeed! I' slammed today at work (been sick for 4 days) so I'll have to play it throughout today to be able to digest it properly. I really like what you've done so far. One quick thing... I know its a major biatch but I would extend the Zero G implosion/explosion thing a bit. With what you've done so far, you've took an above average animation and made it good.... Now to make it great...

Be back later,

peace - MARK

WyattHarris
11-17-2004, 11:08 PM
Looking really good. Looks like most things have been ironed out. There is a moment before the first jump. When the attacker is lunging in and the defender is crouching for the jump they are so close it looks like the defender would smack the back of his head on the attacker on the way up. It's between frames so I can't tell for sure.

Excellent finish, love that ending.

toto poto
11-18-2004, 05:35 PM
hi
thanks for your help, again. each time i think the scene is finished and i post it here, after reading the comments i have to admit that there are still things that could be improved.
but i feel that it is getting better and better each time ( i hope i am not wrong...).
you guys really help me alot. i am still learning (i guess that never ends:)) so every critic is very welcome. what do you think about the textures and light and the overall look ?
regards
thorben

glassefx
11-18-2004, 07:53 PM
Yo Toto, You seem like a "cool" dude... :)

Your right about the learning process never ending... Then what would be the point to ANYTHING? eh? Sounds simple but the important message to that last sentence is easy to let pass through the conscience without examining it truly.

As far as the overall look and feel to it, I think is got to have one of the most cohesive "feels" to it of probably all of the animations I have seen from 3d'ers... Really mean that, as soon as I saw it I felt like I had something to learn from examining it further which is why I really gave you 95% of my conscience thoughts. As far as the learning process... What's next up on the ladder is being able to determine it's subconscience effects and tune it to manipulate those feelings of the viewer(s). Basically, we'll never be masters-just students.

Students of observant life. eh?

peace dude, NOW get to RENDERING!

oh - I'm kind of dissapointed by the lack of comments I received on my ani... I know its rough and all but I guess I was expecting more... I'll have to "color it in" I guess to get comments like you have received... Problem is with that - I'll be too deep in to make changes...Guess that's life...

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