Why is LW used by so many "one man animation studios"?

[mav3rick]

for me
flexible and fast, finish all my work in extream deadlines.... low cost, great quality, can do all with it... dunno. lotz of 1 man band studios use either lw or 3dsmax...
and yea lw goes best with my afx

[Paul-Angelo]

For me it is because of its interface. It's straight forward, no confusing icons. Plus, for its price it fits my budget just fine. The only thing that was lacking for me was the dynamics which have been addressed in version 8. Also the quality of the renderings really puts it over the edge for me. I haven't been a freelancer for a long time but I can say that the extra income that it has brought me would allow me to buy 10 copies of Lightwave. So for me, it gets the job done and I haven't had an unsatisfied client yet. :thumbsup:

[Bangladesh]

For me, it was the low price and the fact it contains most things you'll need to complete most scenes. It may not be the sharpest tool on the market, all divisions, but it has, if not all, "most" tools you'll need right there in the package.

[retinajoy]

It is easy to use, has all the tools I need at a reasonable cost and a nice renderer. It will only get better now as the new team sharpen the tools and improve the workflow further.

[leigh]

I'd say it's probably largely due to its low price.

[Nemoid]

low price in production. unlimited render nodes ,cool modelling environment and good (despite is slow) rendering engine.enough for a solo user indeed. :D

[ThirdEye]

1) Low price, remember Maya's and Softimage's price was MUCH higher some time ago. Maya Unlimited 2.5 was 21k if i'm not wrong.

2) Easier to learn than the big boys.

3) Wide user base.

[whereisanykey]

I'd say it's probably largely due to its low price.
Most definitely true. Initially I had only heard of Maya and Blender. After learning blender for awhile I was hooked. I then wanted something a little more professional. At the time Maya seemed a bit costly, but I was prepared to pay it. Somewhere I had heard of Lightwave and checked in to it. After seeing it and found it had similarities to blender, in the GUI especially, which made it easier to get the hang of, I decided to go that route. I suppose Maya would be fine but I didn't even like the GUI, especially the spacebar and then selecting the function. I really found that a pain. I do like the plugin idea, although some don't. But it makes for more efficiency when you can have just the plugins loaded and on the menu that you need for a particular job and not everything loaded and menus up the yingyang.

[Personne]

After seeing it and found it had similarities to blender, in the GUI especially, ...Yes you're right.

[SplineGod]

I would say that its not largely due to the low price. LW isnt that much cheaper then a lot of other 3D apps. The biggest reason I think is because the package does pretty much everything you need to in one app. It doesnt force you to jump thru a lot of hoops to get things done. You dont have to write special scripts, you dont need shader writers and in the end its much easier for one person to master. Most experienced LW users have a much broader command of LW then other ppl I know who have used Maya, Max, XSI for as long or longer. I see a lot more generalists with LW than any other app. Lightwavers users tend to be their own TDs. :)

[uncommongrafx]

I think it's because of the general philosophy behind it: as much as possible, in as many different ways yet a STEAL for the professional in the field working for The Man.

For me, it's because of the NewTek philosophy that drives this line of thinking, from LightWave to VT[Live]: even the common man ought to have these tools.

As one of those generalists, even more tools are coming on line to make it even more practical and possible for the one-man band to compete against the big houses. Here's one:
http://toastergarage.com/lwconnect

So many ways to take advantage of the NewTek paradigm --> Give'em more than they expect and make it reasonably cost. And make sure it kicks arse!

[HarverdGrad]

Low price + User Community.
Seemed like a good price for an Application that did a little bit of everything.

[ThirdEye]

I would say that its not largely due to the low price. LW isnt that much cheaper then a lot of other 3D apps.
I don't think the largest part of Lw's user base has been created in the last few years, and 3-4 years ago Lw was MUCH cheaper than the other apps (at least cheaper than Softimage|3D, Softimage|XSI, Maya and 3DS Max).

[SplineGod]

Thats true but I know a lot of ppl who have tried to use cracked versions of the apps over the years to do freelance work. Most of them gave up simply because most of them are not easily used for freelance work except for very specific tasks. I simply see a lot more people using Lightwave for one man production tasks because its better suited. Ive rarely found money to be the key reason why ppl use or dont use software...its unfortunate but true. :)

[Julez4001]

Do u think XSI will change all this in the next year?
Low price and tons of training material?

[private]

I don't think the largest part of Lw's user base has been created in the last few years, and 3-4 years ago Lw was MUCH cheaper than the other apps (at least cheaper than Softimage|3D, Softimage|XSI, Maya and 3DS Max).
I think price was a factor before, along with an excellent modeler and renderer. Many of the one-man-band shops picked up and used Lightwave. However, I think this trend is slowing drastically. There are many new users choosing competing software because:

1. It's much cheaper and comes with DVDs of learning material.
2. It's taught in schools
3. There is a downloadable demo version on their website
4. More advertizing and hoopla
5. Their animation systems are much more advanced compared to LW8's current implementation.

I think a better question would be If LW will be used by so many one man animation studios as much as it has been in the past?

Finally, I don't think there are more Lightwave shorts than any other shorts. I think there are just as many 3D Max/Maya/XSI/insert software here/ shorts as there are Lightwave ones. The two biggest ones recently have been Ghost Warrior and the Freak, and completed because the film maker didn't work and soley concentrated on making a film full-time as their job rather than doing a job. They happened to be Lightwave users.

[gerardo]

I don't think is only the price (I mean, is important but I don't find that this is the main reason); at least for me the main reason is LW allows to a single person, in a self package, apply the same procedures used in high end pipelines. I haven't seen that with other 3d softwares.



Gerardo

[RobertoOrtiz]

Keep it light guys.
Remmember we are talking why it HAS BEEN used
for so many indie projects.

Feel free to tear a new one to LW on another thread.

-R

[annaleah]

Price.
I talked to one of the main LW-Gurus just before purchasing Modo and he explained to me that buying Modo was silly based mainly in the fact that Lightwave was cheaper.
Now who can deny that price isnt a main reason when the LW faithful proclaim it?
Development is one of my main reasons for buying Modo and Maya.
LW is capable but its future is shaky from my view and devolopment hads been slow since 7.5 but this is only my view....no harm intended.I havent experienced 8 but the price of upgrading seems to fit being at only $500.
Maybe 8.1 or 8.5 or wahtever will bring me back for upogrades but Im happy with Modos LW like modeling flow and Mayas animation and Mental Rays rendering.

Just a few thoughts and I mean no offence to Newtek.

[windstruck]

for one man studios maybe is its low price
but i like its model building means and interface

[Jure]

It's simple. It's got best price/performance ratio, it's straght forward to use and there's nothing you can't do in LW. :)

[JVitale]

Faster, Better, Cheaper:thumbsup:

[whereisanykey]

I'd say, with the advent of FPrime it makes LW much more worthwhile, even though I paid about 250 for it. I did get tired of constatnly doing an F9. If I was better at this maybe I wouldn't have to do so many test renders, so it helps us beginners. Once FPrime is fully integrated, with HV etc, LW will be really competitive, I'd say. I'd seen a demo of Maya a while back and was surprised they had just implemented HDRI. I watched their test renders and wasn't impressed with it at all. I didn't see any full renders so I couldn't comment on that. I've got a demo of XSI but haven't really played with it much. I did buy 3DS Max because there was such a good offer on it. There are some features there that are nice. If anyone has seen Blender 2.34 I like the menu formats. They have click-on hiding.

All said I've just started and haven't gone through all the books etc. My first project is a massive one, on the scale of Ghost Warrior. I decided such because that is the best way I could learn so many aspects.

An interesting note: I first was introduced to 3D with a program from Microsoft (3D Movie Maker) , if I remember right. I bought it mainly for the kids, but they lacked any interest so I wound up developing an interest. There wasn't any modeling just a type of keyframing as I remember and pre-made sound tracks. Modeling wasn't too difficult because I've used 2d and 3d Cad programs. I did purchase Leigh's book on texturing because I couldn't figure out how to do realistic textures. I haven't got too far into it yet.

Sorry for the long winded shpeal. I don't get on the boards all that often.

[kevman3d]

I'll agree on all the points people have pointed out (Price, bang for buck, etc) - Though for me, the reasons also include workflow and consistant challenge for my brain! :D

Simply put, if I didn't enjoy using LightWave, I would have moved sideways years ago. Its a comfortable workplace for me - And I still get a buzz outta playing with the tools to get a job done - It challenges me, keeps me thinking 'how the heck am I gonna do that by this afternoon!?' :rolleyes:

I know there are people who prefer other 3D applications and their particular workflow over LW - Thats fine by me, but that's why I love using it. (even with the odd technical issue now and again)

Its like job satisfaction - If you don't enjoy doing it, you're gonna go looking elsewhere for something better, no matter how much you're being paid.

[leigh]

Guys... Kaze and The Freak are not the only short films out there, you know... you only hear of that because a lot of people here only seem to interact in the LightWave community. In the last 12 months I have seen LOADS of excellent short films produced in numerous different packages.

The biggest reason I think is because the package does pretty much everything you need to in one app.

Well I don't agree with that, and I think it's for that very reason that so many LightWave users are now switching to XSI. XSI has built in compositing, a very efficient structure and worklow for large projects and is now even cheaper than LightWave. And before you go off ranting that the foundation version of XSI cannot be used for production - it can. I know because I actually use XSI.

Honestly, the narrow minded direction that these threads always end up going really frustrate the hell out of me. They always seem to end up with the same old people saying the same old things that just don't apply anymore.

If I sound irritated, it's because I am.

[whereisanykey]

Oh no Leigh, I sure hope this isn't giving you irritation. People are familiar with certain apps and that's probably most of it. Kinda like cars. Many always buy certain brands even though one is not better than others. You just like one more than another. With so many apps being REALLY competitive that good for all of us. As a recent new user it's better for me to stick with one application and learn it well. When I first bought LW the others were considerably more expensive. That's not the case now. This is good for the CG community.

BTW your book rocks.

[TRick]

1000's of people with 1000's of applications with 1000's of opinions.

I like LW,
I like MAX,
I like XSI,
I like FormZ...

I know what I'm using today, but I can only guess what Ill be using tomorrow:love:

[Qexit]

Well I don't agree with that, and I think it's for that very reason that so many LightWave users are now switching to XSI. XSI has built in compositing, a very efficient structure and worklow for large projects and is now even cheaper than LightWave. And before you go off ranting that the foundation version of XSI cannot be used for production - it can. I know because I actually use XSI.
...but are people actually switching to XSI ? No offence, but I get the impression people are not so much switching apps as adding to their toolkits. In the past, people would use just one app...and complain a lot about how it didn't do such and such but that they'd just work around the limitation. With the recent round of price drops, particularly with the arrival of XSI Foundation, it now makes sense to add an extra license of an additional app and use both to achieve a goal rather than switch completely from what you are used to using.

I'm sure XSI Foundation can be used for production work but it still makes sense to retain your LW license for projects, especially if you have access to a small renderfarm, i.e. anything more than 2 cpus really, since adding extra nodes to XSI is still prohibitively expensive which is not the case with LW.

The changes in pricing in recent times means that freelancers and other small outfits can afford to emulate the approach of the large studios by using several apps rather than just one. They use the one best suited for any particular given project, rather than try to get a single app to do everything. So it's no longer "My 3D app is better than your 3D app" but "I've got a bigger toolkit !" :thumbsup:

[RobertoOrtiz]

I am a huge fan of XSI, Motion builder and the Messiah folks.
But to be honest, I feel that there is a need to remind ourselves
why why are in the Lightwave forum in the first place.

The way i see it, we have to see what we have done right in the past in order
to learn for the future.


-R

[Nemoid]

Guys... Kaze and The Freak are not the only short films out there, you know... you only hear of that because a lot of people here only seem to interact in the LightWave community. In the last 12 months I have seen LOADS of excellent short films produced in numerous different packages.



Well I don't agree with that, and I think it's for that very reason that so many LightWave users are now switching to XSI. XSI has built in compositing, a very efficient structure and worklow for large projects and is now even cheaper than LightWave. And before you go off ranting that the foundation version of XSI cannot be used for production - it can. I know because I actually use XSI.

Honestly, the narrow minded direction that these threads always end up going really frustrate the hell out of me. They always seem to end up with the same old people saying the same old things that just don't apply anymore.

If I sound irritated, it's because I am.
Every talented user can do a short movie with a good app, like Maya, XSI or even Blender,that is free.
There are many users wich choose to use Lw for doing 3D, even if other apps can be better or cheaper. Maybe Lw is better for them though.or maybe they know it so well than there's no real reason to switch.
So, while is plain silly saying that good short movies come only from Lw users i see no real prob seeing a Lw made short movie.

I never tried XSI so far. no time. I'll surely try it and i'm happy that foundation is really cheap, and that everyone says is a great piece of software.

But i find Lw is good too.

[Sil3]

I would say it was a Price/Power and Easy (IMO) to learn combination.


Some might disagree with me about "power" and might even give that :eek::eek::eek: "look", but lets roll back a couple of years to 95-99, since the majority of LW user base was built around those years and face a couple of facts:

-LW´s render was always compared (render quality wise) to the 2 big guns out there: MR and Renderman. But it didn´t cost thousands and buyers would always get 999 render licenses for free.

-LW´s Polygonal Modeler was the finest for organic modeling, so was Mirai, but Mirai costed something like 6K or 7K, LW was in 99 like $2500 or $2000.

It was possible for a single person in about 6 months +/- to be able to learn and do very professional and quality work with LW and LW allowed even more amazing results if pushed really hard by talented people on simple Amigas that costed "cents" compared to SGI´s, Babylon 5 CGI work is a perfect example of what could be achieved with LW 9-10 years ago on TV budgets and insane deadlines by a small group of people and "their" Amigas.

LW was an amazing application on a time where that "power" could only be get on other aplications that costed 10 times more, not even mentioning inacessible prices for a single person to buy the hardware to run those applications.

Who was LW´s most direct competition in terms of prices/features at that time?

3DSMax costed more and needed costy plugins to achieve some features of LW, certain that it also had features that Wavers screamed for.

C4D for years was on the tail of LW, great render but it was pretty much it, although not the case since v7 fowards and v9 is a top example of an "application dream upgrade" for any 3d user :)

Excluding XSI Foundations, LW still is the cheapest of them all even today and it offers the same "power" it did before and more. Sure it lacks heavily in lot´s of areas like it did for years, but never prevented people from making amazing work, theres was always a solution, would it take lot´s of more time to achieve but it was done.

About lot´s of LW users leaving to other applications or adding them to their toolset, yah and? I bought XSI Foundations, but why did i buy it? Because i could afford it and it was a terrific chance to own a tool im professionally working with.

Would i had bought it if it costed 4K? No way... simply out of my monetary possibilities, now matter how i wished it, i couldn´t afford it.

Do i think XSI is more powerfull than LW? Absolutely but it´s also a lot more complex IMO, 1001 ways to do things but also 1001 ways to mess up and look for solutions.

Theres also the personal preferences of each individual, some prefer application X others trust their souls on application Y.

[leigh]

Please understand that my intention with my post was not to say that LightWave is junk (because I don't think it is) and that it is not capable of doing production work, but rather that it is not the only program capable, which some people seem to be living under the illusion of. And saying that LightWave does everything you need for a short film cannot possibly be true for all cases - what about compositing, editing, colour correction, texture painting? People need to a little more specific about things to avoid misguiding others.

My concern lies in the fact that I see too many prominent members (read: beta testers) in the LightWave community preaching about how perfect LightWave is all the time. And how are NewTek to improve their product if this is the feedback they're getting from their testers?

And I agree, "switching" was probably the wrong word to use. I've had XSI|Advanced for about a year now and I'm still using LightWave for some stuff, so I know that for many people it is actually a case of adding to ones toolset. I'm just tired of this strange almost religious fervour that seems to be so prominent in the LightWave community.

[HarverdGrad]

I'm just tired of this strange almost religious fervour that seems to be so prominent in the LightWave community. Bah- I don't think it takes long for people to figure out who is who.
Who to listen to.
Who to ignore.

Regards!

[SplineGod]

Leigh,
I still stand by my comments. Those comments are based on constantly going into places where smalll crews tried to use Maya , XSI or Max to do shots. These studios have renderfarms setup to support multiple apps and have those other apps there for times when they bring in crews to work on projects, tests or other shots. Despite the hype about XSI Foundation I still dont see many places using XSI on a large basis here. Many places that I know that have tried to implement it in their pipelines in a major way seem to have lots of problems for whatever reasons. Ive been working with Rob Powers at a place doing some shots on a James Cameron project. We got the usual round of "why dont you use Maya" from the VFX supervisor who has worked with Cameron for years. In a short time he was raving about Lighwave after seeing how quickly just the two of us could get shots done or setup and show them several alternatives. FPrime made it possible to show instant changes to very complex lighting setups that Rob had done on a very complex creature. They had used a small crew before using Maya and that crew was fired.

I also worked on a project recently at Warner Bros Feature Animation. Many of the Maya crew was either very interested in why we were using Lightwave to do our project or outright antagonistic (read fanatical). None of them really had any idea what Lightwave was about or capable of. Over time many of them were blown away with what a small crew could do with Lightwave very quickly. Several I spoke to literally couldnt believe that our cloth "team" was Jen Hachigian or that our Hair "team" was Dave Jerrard or that our rigging "team" was myself. It was very perplexing to them that each of us could also so much more then the tasks we were focused on.

My statements are made on the basis of seeing and experiencing the same scenario over and over. I dont think many of these threads are as narrowminded as you think. The topic of this particular thread was pretty narrow in its focus and the focus is on why Lightwave is used by so many "one man animation studios". I definatley wouldnt bother to get frustrated because one group of people like, prefer, love some piece of software or tool.
I see the same "fanaticism" from XSI, Maya, Max, C4D and Hash users. I constantly run into it out here from studios Ive worked at, freelanced for or artists Ive worked with.
While I was demoing at the Newtek booth at SiggraphI ran into many people who work with Maya at work but admit that its not the best choice to use for a small side business they wanted to start up and so theyre at the Newtek booth getting Lightwave demos.

Every single person I spoke to that came by from ILM, Dreamworks or other studios were extremely impressed with Lightwave. They were impressed not because LW was some kind of Maya or XSI killer but because it could allow them to do things that they could do as an individual or small crew without requiring them to have large support crews. These people know what Maya or XSI can do and that wasnt in dispute. They just know all to well what they cant do with them.

People have stated that they use Lightwave for several reasons, usually one or all of 3:
Faster, Better, Cheaper (to quote Jessica). Any or all are totally valid reasons. If cost was the only factor for example I would be using Hash, Truespace or any number of cheap or free apps as the basis for my work.

Theres probably a good reason why several of the prominent LW users feel the way they do about Lightwave. Im not aware of one person who thinks Lightwave is perfect. I dont know of anyone who thinks any of the other apps are perfect either. Its simply a matter of what the BEST fit is for certain situations. Based on Roberts title for this thread and on my experience the best fit for this is Lightwave. :)

[leigh]

Larry, what can I say... you and I have had two very different experiences in this field :) I see no point in arguing/debating that further though since I have my thoughts and experiences and you have yours.

[SplineGod]

Hi Leigh,
Sorry if it sounds like arguing or debating. I agree and understand that your or anyone elses experiences will vary. I was only trying to keep my comments, examples and experiences focused on the topic. :)

[Nemoid]

Please understand that my intention with my post was not to say that LightWave is junk (because I don't think it is) and that it is not capable of doing production work, but rather that it is not the only program capable, which some people seem to be living under the illusion of. And saying that LightWave does everything you need for a short film cannot possibly be true for all cases - what about compositing, editing, colour correction, texture painting? People need to a little more specific about things to avoid misguiding others. well, a well rounded 3D artist knows the importance of storyboard, preproduction, design, and of scene size optimization, and of course of post production as you say. there are many people wich believe that a 3D app can do all the job. therefore they build large scenes, and make the app do things that could be done better in post pro, with less pain and time waste , that in terms of a studio production means alot of money.and this is valid for apps like Maya too. they also say that the app isn't powerful for the same exact reason.instead most of times this is lack of knowledge.


My concern lies in the fact that I see too many prominent members (read: beta testers) in the LightWave community preaching about how perfect LightWave is all the time. And how are NewTek to improve their product if this is the feedback they're getting from their testers?this is a problem :D Lw is far to be perfect, as all other apps.In particular, it suffers from being old, not flexible and not an integrated environment.

It works in many cases though. and since many times is better suited for a solo artist than other apps, especially for doing everyday's jobs, it works faster than others.

I'd like to have the same philosophy in other high end apps too. unfortunately this doesn't happen. that's why of the Splinegod examples. When the studio is small, and time is limited, with Lw you can better complete your job because it allows you to be well rounded in different areas.



And I agree, "switching" was probably the wrong word to use. I've had XSI|Advanced for about a year now and I'm still using LightWave for some stuff, so I know that for many people it is actually a case of adding to ones toolset. I'm just tired of this strange almost religious fervour that seems to be so prominent in the LightWave community. I'm really glad you feel confortable both with Lw and XSI. they are good apps indeed. everyone has its weak points and its strong points. using the best tools for the job when u can is a good philosophy as well, because let's you employ better your time.

Personally i am tired of EVERY religious fervor of any kind, especially considering recent times.
And actually i find software religious fervor one of the silliest things on the earth.(and there are many of them) there's no religion nor faith in softwares. they are only tools.

[SplineGod]

Well said brutha nemoid! Can I hear an AMEN!? ;)

[Nemoid]

AMEN ! :D



Slightly OT, but I'd add that my preference would go for a well modernized Lw, with all the advantages of other high end apps, and all the advantages brought from Lw real philosophy.
A fun workflow for solo users and small teams. This because if the small team have great advantages, even larger teams could work better.
IMO modernìzing Lw in that way IS possible, and will be more possible if Nt team works hard as I hope.

[NeptuneImaging]

As a student who love to do 3d modeling and what not, Lightwave is a really good package for someone who is working by themselves on projects... if I want high quality renders, I choose Lightwave because I have no time to be tweaking render options. Sure the renderer is slow, but it is the only one I know of that does 128 bit renderings (someone back me up on this). Hell, when I do lightwave work, I do not need clunky advanced renderers or a bunch of "nerds" trying to write shaders when I have what I need. In my work, I do not like too much confusion, however as I get closer to getting in the game industry, (I graduate in Feb. 2005) I want Lightwave to be a big part of it as well. Even FPrime is awesome and it is still in its infancy.

I am also planning a short movie and I am choosing Lightwave, and possibly XSI for it...


Now, I have been using Maya, 3DS Max, and XSI and those are awesome packages too (demos). Like some of us, I will be adding one of those packages above, because after college I will want to assemble a team of my friends. Even if I have Lightwave, because of its very clean interface, cost, awesome tools and a huge community, I will admit that I would also love to have XSI as an addition to my toolset because it's interface mirrors lightwave's almost completely (Leigh, back me up on this if it is true) although it is a tad on the expensive side if I want the extreme stuff in it. plus, Dead or Alive Ultimate and Ninja Gaiden was made in XSI. And XSI is the only program (back me up) that can generate Normal Maps Natively

If this rant was too long, I apologize. Personally, I do not care what package I have, as long as I can go to town... :thumbsup:

[annaleah]

These people know what Maya or XSI can do and that wasnt in dispute. They just know all to well what they cant do with them.

So youre say two things.....first these people didnt know how to use these programs(Maya,XSI,ETC...)to begin with and second if even they did know how to use them that the program wasnt capable of the same things as LightWave?

[SplineGod]

It depends on what you mean by "knowing" Maya, XSI etc. Ive never met anyone (yet) who really knows Maya, XSI etc inside and out ( lets say, a generalist). Most people seem to specialize in particular parts of the application due to the complexity of the software. Those applications function better where there is a large support staff to provide help with shader writing, mel scripting and so on. Few Maya animators that I know for example have any idea how to rig or do other things. Rigs are given to them and they animate them. I dont know many riggers in maya who can light or texture because ususally thats handled by others who write shaders. Maya pipelines are typcally slow(er) and more methodical. Ive never seen a Maya demo reel that was mostly produced by one person. I have seen lots of Lightwave reels where the artists did most of the work on various shots.

[kretin]

My concern lies in the fact that I see too many prominent members (read: beta testers) in the LightWave community preaching about how perfect LightWave is all the time. And how are NewTek to improve their product if this is the feedback they're getting from their testers?

Since this is the LW forum, and the question was Why is LW used by so many "one man animation studios"? I would have thought this was the perfect thread to express what we like about LightWave. Roberto has posted a number of threads recently where we can express what we don't like or what can be improved upon, so isn't it only fair that this one lets us say what is good about LightWave? There are times for criticism and times for praise, this happens to be one for praise so the fact that people are praising LW shouldn't be a cause for irritation.

Considering the question that was asked I'm not sure that an answer of "XYZ is better, everyone's using that now" comes close to being on topic.

[jayezon]

O.K. here's my 2 bits worth.

-I wanna take what's in my head and display it for the world to see.
-I want an application that is capable of helping me pull this off, and has been the tool of numerous award winning teams. eg. Zoic Studios - Firefly TV Series (these effects are as good if not better than most Motion Picture effects shots that use other apps). Just my opinion.
-An app that contains every tool I want and need and be able to use it with ease.
-And I can afford it.

That's Lightwave.

I use Lightwave because it gives me all that and more.

Every app has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

Going back to creating now.

That's all I have to say.

Take care people!

[colkai]

Yes, there is a lot of religious fanatasism about LW, but by the same token, those who have moved to XSI are pretty fanatical about it, those who just plain don't like LW are fanatical in their hatred. Human nature huh? what can ya do? ;)

Now, I can't speak for the one man studio, but I can speak for myself.
LW why?
Ease of use
Cost
Array of tools "out the box"
whole host of free addons thanks to an amazing community.
Vast help base - thanks to an amazing community.
The fact that we CAN say things directly to the people who write the software, with software, this is far rarer than many CGI artists seem to realise.

Would I buy XSI if I could afford it, maybe, do I think it would surplant LW as my main tool? No, because LW "fits" my working just right and as someone has already said, complexity breeds its own problems.

In LW - I want to adjust the specularity, I just do it, in other packages, it seems you need to know more maths than soft Mick to be able to do the same thing. Yup, it's super pwoerful to construct shaders, but I dont WANT to, I just wanna alter the surface..quickly.

I don't have the luxury of sitting down for months to learn a new piece of software to get to a stage where I already am with LW, especially as I am nowhere near understanding all the things LW is capable of. To be honest, even those saying "XYZ is IMPOSSIBLE in LW" probably don't. There are things I was sure LW didn't do, only to find that actually, yup, it did.

As Kretin said, there are plenty of "what's wrong with LW" threads, let us have a little joy for a change and sing of it's pleasures.

[Nemoid]

Originally Posted by Leigh
My concern lies in the fact that I see too many prominent members (read: beta testers) in the LightWave community preaching about how perfect LightWave is all the time. And how are NewTek to improve their product if this is the feedback they're getting from their testers?

My only prob with this statements is that if it's true, then Lw risks not to evolve so much. Betatesters have to stress Lw probs and of course test hardly the app. This should be valid for every app. yet, i have the sensation that betetesters in general not always test so hardly their app. and i'm not talking only about Lw.

In Lw, the presence of bugs and other lacks is a bit embarassing. (lets think to psd exporter , and things like sock monkey, for example)

Ok, this being said every package has a target too. Lw is aimed to small studios, Solo users, and in general, TV production, where there's no time and pipelines are small. has been used in movie production too, but mostly for animatics, and preproduction, sdespite the app's capabilities go surely beyond that. :)

Maya, XSI and other packages are aimed towards large pipelines and specialized operators.Aimed to big movie production.
They are thought in a way that people becomes specialized into a particular area : rigging, animating etc.
It's possible to understand the whole software for solo users, especially if they are well rounded yet, but it isn't actually designed for that precise target.

That's why working on them is generally slower but good for large teams, because rendering engines like Mray have several options, but require alot of knowledge too. Surely results can be better this way for movie production, considering features like subpixel displacement even if i's not so automatic that more oiptions are always better. However, Renderman too requires alot of knowledge despite being the best renderer.
It's aimed to movie production.

That's why so far Lw is good for solo users and small studios. It's aimed to that target. :) also, many specialized operators in other apps , use Lw for their personal projects too. Or at least a combination of Lw + something other like MB or Messiah.

In latest times,the market is also going towards solo users and small studios too.

I really hope that this process will grow and that Lw will remain a good part of it. :)

[ThirdEye]

Let's dissolve a myth here: XSI and Maya are NOT that difficult. ;)

[Lyr]

It doesnt force you to jump thru a lot of hoops to get things done.
After watching some of the free videos on your site, I got the opposite impression. Setting up that "muscle" took way to much effort for the result achieved.

[SplineGod]

I guess its how you quantify the term *That difficult*. :) I do see people using those applications to do freelance work. Typically that freelance work is a very specific thing. Many of the people I know doing freelance work with Lightwave are doing whole shots...modeling, texturing, lightng, rigging and animating. :)

[SplineGod]

After watching some of the free videos on your site, I got the opposite impression. Setting up that "muscle" took way to much effort for the result achieved. Thats an interesting conclusion based on a video thats at least a year old showing off a free plugin. I dont think I ever mentioned in that video that it was the only way to get muscle effects in LW. If that was the only way to do muscles in LW I might be inclined to agree. :)
Ive watched experienced people try and rig similar things in other apps and it was anything but plug 'n play.
While I was demoing at siggraph, Kevin Phillips was showing off to a woman how to quickly set up particles to deform another object. She was amazed and finally said that she had been involved with doing the skin deformations on the Hulk when he was struck with bullets. She started talking about the Mel scripts that had to be written to pull the same thing off. She also used words and phrases like "difficult", "time consuming", "weeks".

Let me also take the opportunity to agree with Kretin. Robert posted this thread with a very specific topic "why LW is used by so many "one man studios" rather then another "which is better...LW or Brand X". I find it interesting that anyone who defends LW or has the nerve to praise it is considered narrow minded. Nobody has said Maya, XSI or Brand X sucks....and again, before responding look at the name of the thread just one more time. :)

[dalecampbelljr]

Amen!....finally!

[Kvaalen]

Hmmm.... Roberto created this thread to try and make people say positive things about LW instead of all the bashing and app wars that are happening. Bring back the spirit that once reigned here. It's all very nice seeing it go the other way!

I, appreciate your effort Roberto!

[colkai]

Let's dissolve a myth here: XSI and Maya are NOT that difficult. ;)
Heh, nothing is difficult if you know how to use it / how to do it.
Every tried tying a falconers knot? Easy to an expert. :p
I've seen someone do it so fast, it doesn't even look real, then I've seen my mate struggle for 30 minutes trying to wrap his head around it. ;)

[RuiFeliciano]

You know, I too ate much of that "Maya and XSI are for large organizations only" thing...after deciding to see for my own if that thought would hold true I can now say that it's pure RUBBISH! After a few months learning XSI I was at the point where I knew as much about LW (I used it for more than 10 years exclusively) as I knew about XSI, learning and practicing concepts takes years, learning the new location of buttons andlearning a new workflow is MUCH easier. I too thought LW was everything I'd ever need...simply because I had never had the corage to leave the confy LW nest and open my eyes to other ways of working. If you love your craft you owe it to yourself to broad your mind, not narrow it focusing on one tool only...if after learning other ways of working you decided that's not for you, fine, but then you'll be talking about something you REALLY know, that you've experienced and not making a parrot out of yourself simply reapeating what you've heard/read others saying. It's not about switching apps, it's not about religion, it's not about fanatism...it's about you, your art, your toolset.
No one is saying you to drop all those years of knowledge of LW but rather complement it. Until you actually do know how to achieve things in two different applications don't you tell me that the other app is dificult or that you don't need anything else because you're not talking by experience, you're repeating what other misinformed people are saying.
Concerning the fact that people using other apps need teams to achieve what one person in LW can achieve...really that's another shi**y comparison...there's good professionals and bad professionals everywhere, there's good lidership and bad lidership everywhere so that proves absolutely nothing to me. A well trainned, knowledgeble (sp?) professional can achieve equally good results using any app.
XSI (or any other 3d app) is not the perfect be all do all app but neither is LW, the thing is there's some that are more adapted to certain tasks than others, knowing more than one you can make wise decisions, if you limit yourself to one then you can't.

One thing I can tell you though, XSI being for large organizations only is pure rubbish because I'm using it and a large organization I ain't!

[Nemoid]

You have more than 10 years of experience in 3D, with Lw. It's a lot of time, man.
So u know what 3D is and how to do it. Because you learnt it in Lw.
You have to consider this, because 3D works quite the same in every app.

In this sense, switching app is not so difficult. Especially in the case of XSI.

XSI is actually going towards a small studios target, however. Foundation at a so cheap price, clearly demonstrate this, and as i said, the market is actuallty moving in that direction.
Good thing.

So no prob. use Lw and XSI and be happy.They're just tools. :)

[thx1138]

I can only comment on why I sticked with LW for 10 years now. It's origin lies with the Toaster and the Amiga. And that's where I took my first steps in CG, not on Mac or PC. Before I used LW, I used Imagine and Real3D on the Amiga, but things really went into gear when I started using LW.
When LW went over to the PC, it felt only logical to follow instead of spending time learning something new. The only other option that was a bit within my budget was 3DStudio. Softimage and Alias Wavefront were way to expensive, also since they only worked on pricy SGI boxes back then. But I always found those 2 to be the better. They were being used by the big guys in Hollywood. I think they still hold a lead over LW and Max, but that doesn't mean any 4 of those aren't suited for doing serious CG.

[colkai]

I guess what we are trying to say, as Larry and others already have is....

Why oh why, when we defend LW and say it's what we choose to use, does everyone who use Maya and XSI come out to tell us why we SHOULDN'T stick to just LW and why XSI / MAYA ARE SO MUCH BETTER.

We are trying to say why we like LW here, which is what I was doing. YES other apps may be better, but WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LW FOLKS.

I'm happy for y'all, really, I am, but why does doing anything but jumping on the Maya/XSI bandwagon has to be seen as letting down our craft / being fanatical.

If you came to my house, told me you were a happy vegan and I plonked down a juicy steak, you'd be less than thrilled. "But steak has more protein than nut roast" I exlaim, "you're just being fanatical" I expound. Or come to think of it, motorbikes are vastly higher powered and more manouverable than 4X4's so why aren't you all on two wheels??

Yes - anologies - I know how those who use LW like to use them and how others laugh and mention their pointlessness.

In case you missed it...
"As a longtime LW user one thing that I have noticed is that I have seen
a LOT of independent cg shorts done in Lightwave.
Hell in some cases I have seen some great work done by one man studios like in the shorts
"f8" and "Ghost Warrior".
Why do you guys think this is?"

We are talking about why people enjoy using LW - not why XSI is superior and we are sooo narrow minded. Please go sing the praises of XSI and Maya on THEIR forums. It's a LW forum, about LW and those who use it and prefer it. CAN I MAKE IT ANY PLAINER...
By the Gods..... :banghead:

[leigh]

Why oh why, when we defend LW and say it's what we choose to use, does everyone who use Maya and XSI come out to tell us why we SHOULDN'T stick to just LW and why XSI / MAYA ARE SO MUCH BETTER.

The discussion is about why a particular program is popular for so many one man shops. Naturally, people in their replies began comparing LightWave to other applications, so that does bring those others into the discussion. And when people, who haven't really used these other applications, start making misguided statements about them then other people are entitled to post their opinions too.

Why is this such a sin? This is a software discussion.

[vonbon]

i use it cause it has pretty buttons. :shrug:

[Kvaalen]

I use LightWave because I like the look of the box! :argh: :wip:

[NanoGator]

Leigh: If I were to venture a hypothesis, I'd say that it's because the community feels like LW is the underdog. As such, there may be fear that Newtek could die if not strongly supported.

Can't speak for anybody else, but I've always felt that way in the back of my mind. (Amusing considering I'm giving XSI a strong look now. hehe. NEW TOYS!)

[Remi]

Because they own it?:shrug:

[allenatl]

Leigh, your initial opinion came across as more of a beat-down. After reading it and a few others' comments, I immediately felt the same thing that Larry and colkai expressed - I pictured XSI and Maya artists at their computers, reading this thread, leaping up out of their chairs, exclaiming, "Praising LW in a LW forum?...oh, no he di'uh!! Lemme at 'im! Where's that darned reply button? I'll show him!"
Okay, that's an exaggeration, it's not quite that bad, but it is odd that in a Lightwave forum where mods have spent the last year complaining about negativity, people are now getting chastised for praising the software. Suddenly Lightwave has become the Macintosh of 3d software: Anyone daring to mention their good experience with it can expect several responses about why other software/hardware is better, denouncing its position in the marketplace, and how it won't exist a year from now. I love Lightwave. I love Maya. Still got a lot to learn in both, still going to use both, but in the meantime, let me have my "happy place".

[Chuck Baker]

Please understand that my intention with my post was not to say that LightWave is junk (because I don't think it is) and that it is not capable of doing production work, but rather that it is not the only program capable, which some people seem to be living under the illusion of. No one appears to be under any such illusion, so far as I can tell. Larry did assert that LightWave is popular because it is well-rounded - which it is, or it would not have been a tool that for the past six years has been used by some amazing artists as their main 3D tool to produce Emmy-winning work. That doesn't say that other programs aren't also well-rounded. Saying a good thing about one program is really not an assault on another and is really not "narrow-minded."

Roberto wanted to discuss positive aspects of LightWave for a particular kind of work and folks could choose to respect that - after all, why isn't it a legitimate thing to do on the LightWave forum? - or to not respect it, and to act as if every thread on the LightWave forum should be another opportunity to "market" on behalf of other applications.

Just curious - are any of you over on the forums for those other applications urging anyone to broaden their toolset to include LightWave and telling those users they are narrow-minded if they have something good to say about their current application and feel it is adequately meeting their needs?


And saying that LightWave does everything you need for a short film cannot possibly be true for all cases - what about compositing, editing, colour correction, texture painting? People need to a little more specific about things to avoid misguiding others. LightWave was clearly being discussed in the context of of one 3D application versus other 3D applications, so there wasn't a thing misleading about it. It seems to me to be a considerable misunderstanding to fail to see that context and to end up refuting a point that was not in fact being made.

My concern lies in the fact that I see too many prominent members (read: beta testers) in the LightWave community preaching about how perfect LightWave is all the time. And how are NewTek to improve their product if this is the feedback they're getting from their testers? This is also a considerable misunderstanding, in more than one way. The majority of our beta testers do not in fact participate in public forums. Of those who do, what they say in the public forums is not their only communication with NewTek to provide feedback on the application, and in fact is not their primary means. We have dedicated communication venues for our beta teams. It is simply a fiction to think that because some of them might willingly express positive views on the utility of LightWave that this somehow means they are not reporting bugs and requesting feature changes. Believe me, they all want the application to improve and they all actively report bugs and request improvements. The user who doesn't want the application to get better is a fiction. I've never met one.

I have seen some folks profess that they are afraid that if anything complimentary is said, NewTek will not advance LightWave. That's just outrageously incorrect. Our new development team is dedicated to making every aspect of the application better, and you will be seeing plenty of exciting things as they issue updates in the 8.x series. Our dedicated, hard working beta team is just as committed to seeing the application get better, and has been just as busy as can be making sure that bugs get reported and working with us to refine the workflow and improve existing tools, as well as proposing new tools.

You can rest assured that our team pays particular attention to the messages in any venue requesting improvements. Positive feedback absolutely does not prevent us from hearing anyone's requests for improvements.

[Ejecta]

The discussion is about why a particular program is popular for so many one man shops. Naturally, people in their replies began comparing LightWave to other applications, so that does bring those others into the discussion. And when people, who haven't really used these other applications, start making misguided statements about them then other people are entitled to post their opinions too.

Why is this such a sin? This is a software discussion. Liegh,
Ive worked in this field for over 7 years and worked with all the major apps and my experience has been much like yours. I even started in SI3D v2. Wow, that was awhile back. Anyway, I know what you are saying and completely agree and understand but it's really not worth it. Let it go. Some people live in thier own reality which isnt always reality.

To answer the topic of the thread: If I were to go out on my own into a one man show I would use several 3D tools and yes LW would be one of them. Why? Because it is the best tool for some tasks but for some it is not which is why I would have other tools at my disposal.

Lastly I would like to add that it is myth that other pacakges like Maya and XSI are harder to work with. Just not true.

[schuubars]

Lastly I would like to add that it is myth that other pacakges like Maya and XSI are harder to work with. Just not true.
Hmm this isn't a matter of true or not, it's a matter of personal preferences and way of thinking.

And some peoples must unterstand this.

Why pull such positive threads down?

Everyone can download the maya ple, xsi exp, houdini apprentice, or gmax, and can find out itself was the truth is about, and that for free!

In some cases is XSI or MAYA difficult to handle some situation. (also some things in LW ;) ).

[annaleah]

Many of the people I know doing freelance work with Lightwave are doing whole shots...modeling, texturing, lightng, rigging and animating.
And now you are saying that people cant do that in Maya and XSI?
Im not being argumentative here....the statements you are making are pretty far fetched.
So Maya and XSI have scripting languages...big deal.
You can do all of those things( ...modeling, texturing, lightng, rigging and animating and even some areas easier) within Maya or XSI and its not that complex to accomplish.
Yes you can take these programs much farther than Lightwave with more human assets but to say just because you have seen a,b,and c people who only specialize within an area and so that means thats all you can do with these programs is far fetched logic.
This is circling to the real reasons heres and first and for most is price and along with that comes the free render nodes,that is it in a nutshell.

[RobertoOrtiz]

Guys lets keep it light.

The thread is not saying that other apps are not good too..

But lets remind ourselves that we are just talking about what has worked well before
with Lightwave ON THE LIGHTWAVE forum.

I love 3rd party apps like anybody else, but (AHEM)
THIS IS THE LIGHTWAVE FORUM. And there are a ton of threads
to tell us what is wrong with the app.

BUT THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

And to kill one point once and for all, PRICE is just one factor of many.

-R

[Celshader]

I use LightWave because it does everything I need right now at a price that I can afford. Modeling's a snap, and the renders look pretty, too.

[dragonfollower]

My reason for using Lightwave is that for the price and what I want to do with it, it can't be beat. I'm trying the whole one-man-movie thing and I've got characters with fur. So, my options are either LW+Sasquatch, or XSI/Maya (full versions that cost tons more). Naturally Lightwave+Sasquatch is the way I'm going.

I use Maya everyday at work for modeling, rigging, texturing and animating. It's not TOO hard to use. Maybe was a bit harder to learn than LW for me, but not much. Animating sure is easier with it though. But I can tell ya, Maya IS WAAAAY more complex and no one at work has mastered all aspects it. I'm not saying you can't though. But with the added complexity and control that Maya has, comes added problems. Lots of times, things won't work like we want them to and we have to hunt down the cause of it.

I like stuff about LW that Maya does poorly. But on the other hand, there's stuff about Maya that puts LW to shame. Both have pros and cons. There's never a clear cut choice in any situation. Everyone has a preference. You pick the one that seems to work best for you and move on. For me and what I want to do, LW is my choice. I don't need mel scripting and the complexity that Maya offers for my own stuff. I'm not out to make Gollum. I just want to tell stories quickly and for the most part LW is pretty straight forward for ME. Now, to be honest I use messiah a lot for Char. animation. But even with this, it's still cheaper than Maya Unlimited or XSI (the full version), which are my other alternatives if I'm doing hair and fur.

-Brian

[SplineGod]

And now you are saying that people cant do that in Maya and XSI?
Im not being argumentative here....the statements you are making are pretty far fetched.
So Maya and XSI have scripting languages...big deal.
You can do all of those things( ...modeling, texturing, lightng, rigging and animating and even some areas easier) within Maya or XSI and its not that complex to accomplish.
Yes you can take these programs much farther than Lightwave with more human assets but to say just because you have seen a,b,and c people who only specialize within an area and so that means thats all you can do with these programs is far fetched logic.
This is circling to the real reasons heres and first and for most is price and along with that comes the free render nodes,that is it in a nutshell.
Read what I posted carefully. I never said that people didnt get work done in Maya or XSI.
The statements may sound far fetched but theyre true. I do know people who use Maya or XSI or Brand X to do freelance work. The difference is in the scope of what a single person can do with Maya vs what a single person can do with LW. Everything Ive posted is based on personal experience or working with or around people who use all the apps Ive talked about. Celshader and I for example had a CGI supervisor at Warner Bros that is well versed in Maya and Lightwave. Hes worked for years in the business and at several major studios. He uses Maya when required to do so but prefers to use Lightwave on most every film project he does outside of the big studios. Why? Because he feels that he can do far more of the work on shots with LW then he can with Maya. He would need to contract the work out to other Maya artists but would lose too much money. As a result he does it in LW where HE can do most of the work himself and keep most of the money.

Far fetched or not its what Ive run into over and over working for years in this business out in Hollywood. I know a lot of other people in this business who feel the same. Its not a matter of LW people not knowing what Brand X can or cant do, but I find that its mostly the users of Brand X who dont have a clue what LW can do and they are more often then not blown away when they see what one person can do with LW.

Nobody is saying as others have pointed out that Brand X sucks. What has been stated about LW in CONTEXT of the original question of this thread is true. :)

[scotttygett]

When I got into animation, I hunted and hunted, and made it a sort of spiritual quest. Animation software may not have been a good goal -- save the world with a better pencil? I already had a couple of "degrees" in animation, including Wavefront and Cubicomp. After a year or so, though, I learned "INSPIRE" had come out and it was in my budget. In a way, it was great because 5.6 is still a pretty strong tool, and there wasn't anything remotely like it around. The package didn't lie, it was powerful stuff. (As compared to some packages that promised a lot of stuff and skipped over a lot of details...)

The spiritual quest kicked in -- I was given LW 7 by a stranger, so I couldn't tell you too much about that decision.

A good way to get a deadline stuck in your face is to join a club like www.group101films.com (http://www.group101films.com/) though you may not clean your house for that long. But you get a few short films made, or drop out. Then you have a bunch of films.

[colkai]

And when people, who haven't really used these other applications, start making misguided statements about them then other people are entitled to post their opinions too.
Why is this such a sin? This is a software discussion. Now this is fascinating.
Maybe you had trouble interpeting what I wrote. I SAID that no doubt XSI IS VERY POWERFUL, ok?
But get this, you and others are slamming into those of us who stick soley with LW and claim us for being fanatical, and yet, here we have the flip side, to not bow down before the other programs and maintain our happiness with LW is such a bad thing.
So, the program is good value for money, has lots of very powerful tools, is really easy to use, produces excellent results and people are very happy using it ... no no wait... you see I'm not being fanatical because I'm talking about XSI not LW - see it makes all the difference doesn't it.
And for the last time, NO IT IS NOT A DISCUSSION ABOUT CONSTRASTING SOFTWARE PACKAGES - IT IS ABOUT WHY PEOPLE ENJOY USING LW

But I see my error, so if someone oviously far better informed and open-minded and skilled could just buy me a version of XSI, and some books and videos to learn it, that would be good. Oh, and if you could complete my outstanding LW projects for me in XSI and port my existing data across to XSI and intergrate it all into the LW centric pipeline we are using that would be good.
After all, being so open minded and smarter it follows you'll be more altruistic and happy to shed the light onto us lowly LWavers.
Because if you prefer XSI you are much better than those using just LW and so no doubt richer and I'll wager it even makes you more attractive to the opposite sex.

And ya - in case people have trouble with it .. that was called sarcasm.
I'm outta here......... forgive me please for actually being happy with LW - I'll avoid using its profane name.

[retinajoy]

Since reading this thread I have discovered that me liking Lightwave has made me ignorant and naive to other 3D packages. The fact that I only use LW now has been terrible for me, though I didn't realise it until the wise words from an unbiased cgtalk helper. Even though after giving XSI foundation a good run through, I still felt that LW covered what I needed. Obviously, this has been a big error on my part. I'm just an ignorant tea drinking yellow teethed Brit who can't see beyond LW. Being a LW user has also made me an evangelical fundamentalist. I have recently put posters of Kiki Stockhammer, Proton, Chuck Baker and of course Irene around my LW altar work station. Just felt writing this on topic meaningful confessional reply to the other meaningful on topic posts. :twisted::p

[leigh]

But get this, you and others are slamming into those of us who stick soley with LW and claim us for being fanatical, and yet, here we have the flip side, to not bow down before the other programs and maintain our happiness with LW is such a bad thing.

What the... ? Ummm, exactly where (and I'd like a quote here from my post please) did I say that "everyone who only uses LightWave is narrowminded"?! I do believe I made it abundantly clear that my irritation was caused by people making broad statements about software they had not used. I did not say they were narrowminded for never having tried anything else, I said that people are narrowminded if they've never used anything else yet persist in claiming that packages they've never used are not up to scratch with the one they've chosen. There is a BIG difference in what I said and what you're claiming I said. So chill out.

When I first replied to this thread, I said that I believe the main reason for LightWaves popularity was because of its low price, but shortly after that post of mine people began making silly comments that I totally and utterly disagree with - comments like how Maya and XSI and whatever are niche programs, that are not suitable for small companies, that people find them soooo difficult to work with blah blah blah and other such comments so of course, having been a user of these packages, I replied stating my own opinions on that because I do not agree with them nor believe that they, in any way, affect the issue that was being originally discussed.

If people cannot accept that others are going to have differing opinions on issues, then they shouldn't be getting involved in online discussions.

This thread has gotten so ridiculous that I don't even see the bother in replying anymore.

[RobertoOrtiz]

Ahem hi boss.

Guys slamming the bperson who runs this site, is not a smart idea.

And to everyone else,

When I started this thread, the idea was not to slam one app or another,
it was just a thread that is intended to be positive.

Anyway Leight you have my sincere apologies. We do need mre input of people like you in the LW forum.


-R

[Nemoid]

I'd say only some things :

use what u love the most.
if u feel confortable with Lw, use it.
if u feel confortable with Maya or other apps use them.

there's no real prob.

As i said i personally use Lw, because i like it so far.
I tried Maya and didn't feel confortable with it.
I surely will try XSI when I'll can and see if i will feel
confortable.

I also read "XSI illuminated :character" and i have to say it's a good book :explains well what 3d is all about and how a good production can be setup with XSI.
incidentally, it stresses the goodness of quite large teams and how XSI suits so well to them.

This doesn't mean in any way that XSI or other apps can't be used into a solo artist environment. Neither that Lw can't be used in large pipelines as well. :)

[Chuck Baker]

What the... ? Ummm, exactly where (and I'd like a quote here from my post please) did I say that "everyone who only uses LightWave is narrowminded"?!
Let's start with this:

Honestly, the narrow minded direction that these threads always end up going really frustrate the hell out of me. They always seem to end up with the same old people saying the same old things that just don't apply anymore.
Then this:

I'm just tired of this strange almost religious fervour that seems to be so prominent in the LightWave community.
Then this:

you only hear of that because a lot of people here only seem to interact in the LightWave community.
Then this:

This thread has gotten so ridiculous that I don't even see the bother in replying anymore.



I do believe I made it abundantly clear that my irritation was caused by people making broad statements about software they had not used. I did not say they were narrowminded for never having tried anything else, I said that people are narrowminded if they've never used anything else yet persist in claiming that packages they've never used are not up to scratch with the one they've chosen. There is a BIG difference in what I said and what you're claiming I said. So chill out.
Actually some of the folks in the discussion have considerable experience with multiple packages and still agree with the conclusion that LightWave stacks up well against the competition. And in Larry's case his experience includes working in Hollywood at a number of CG studios, where he's had a sufficiently good look at why various packages are applied in various ways that he should certainly be able to address such issues with at least a modicum of respect for his opinions and experience.

When I first replied to this thread, I said that I believe the main reason for LightWaves popularity was because of its low price, but shortly after that post of mine people began making silly comments that I totally and utterly disagree with - comments like how Maya and XSI and whatever are niche programs, that are not suitable for small companies, that people find them soooo difficult to work with blah blah blah and other such comments so of course, having been a user of these packages, I replied stating my own opinions on that because I do not agree with them nor believe that they, in any way, affect the issue that was being originally discussed.
Certainly a lot of that discussion was historical, and the landscape among the major 3D applications is somewhat different these days. That's certainly a point that could have been made, probably with no unnecessary angst, if the ad hominem comments quoted above had not been included.

If people cannot accept that others are going to have differing opinions on issues, then they shouldn't be getting involved in online discussions.
Clearly, someone needs to take their own advice in this instance.

[vonbon]

If she can’t take the heat get her out of the kitchen :twisted:



Lol, Im just playn! Leigh all mighty mmmm kissy kissy :love:


I think we all can get lil fanatical at times no matter what software you use. It could be that people just want to reassure themselves that they made the right choice. There is nothing wrong with having strong feelings(fanaticism) about the software(s) you choose to work with. That’s why we choose them and still use them. I think that anybody who can sit in front of a computer for 8 to 12hrs a day (working on lil details) making something look great in 3d or 2d is a fanatic.(you have to be cause it take alot of patience and dedication) Welcome to “our” reality, Ya buncha Art Fanatics. :) :buttrock: I tell ya I get fired up readn these thangs, Id go and make somthn right now if I wasn’t so lazy. Before I go I want to quote two of the years most famous people. You can have “More of the Same” or Ya can be “Flip Flopper”. :thumbsup: Lol. Can ya tell i just found out where the smiles were at. See, im slow and lazy. Maybe thats why LW works best for me, :eek:

Im VonBon and I approve this message :bounce:

I just had to use another 1, maybe i should keep writing :scream: SO I CAN USE ALL OF THEM :D

[Ejecta]

LOL! This forum cracks me up.

Like I said Leigh, just let it go. I understand where you are coming from and trust me your opinions are not the minority.

Some of these posts remind me of some lyrics from one of my favorite bands...

"All the flings and the flaws
Let me cling to someones clause
All of us are lonely souls and all of us mend broken laws
Even though i know the bridge is burning?
How come i take it when i know that you fake it?
I tell myself im learning

The lies that i believe are simple
The lies that i believe are true
The lies that i believe are so beautiful
The lies that i believe are true

Everyone uses, everyone abuses
Nobody takes the blame
Everyone uses, everyone abuses
Ain't it such a shame

The lies that i believe are simple
The lies that i believe are true
The lies that i believe are so beautiful
The lies that i believe are true"




Like I said some people live in thier own reality and that sometimes isnt reality and some people like to stand in windows naked. I say.... whatever floats your boat.:D

IMHO LW is a good tool but not the best tool for everything so use it if you like it. Otherwise use another tool or a mix of tools you like and move on for the love of all that is good and decent in this world. Man this horse has been dead so long why people continue to beat it is beyond me.

[RobertoOrtiz]

LOL Ejecta.

Now we jut need a bonfire and some marshmallows!

-E

[Ejecta]

Let's start with this:
Clearly, someone needs to take their own advice in this instance.
Ring ring...

Hello?

Hey Pot this is Kettle.

Hey whats up?

Not much just calling to tell you.. you're black.

[Ejecta]

LOL Ejecta.

Now we jut need a bonfire and some marshmallows!

-E
LOL yeah and dont forget the beer. Oh wait beer and marshmellows? Eewwww. I'll bring some pretzels.

[RobertoOrtiz]

Ok as I play my guitar, in front of the bonfire, lets get back in topic.

-R

[SplineGod]

Ok as I play my guitar, in front of the bonfire, lets get back in topic.

-R So...is it ok to say why we think Lightwave is great for one man animation studios? :)

[kurv]

Wow, what a thread... Here are my humble opinions on this topic.

First of all Roberto has been doing a great job of posting positive threads and keeping them positive. I have been finding myself coming back to CGT more and more... then I get to this thread.

I think the reason people get upset about others talking negatively about LW is this... I drive a Ford truck, if I hear someone saying that Ford F150's are weak, not very well rounded vehicles and not to many professional drivers use them because there slow or ugly... I get offended. I love my truck, that’s why I bought it! So talking this way about LW does the same thing to me... it is my primary tool.

I own XSI, 3DS Max, Maya and ZBrush myself... but choose to use LW the most why... who cares I just do.

THIS is the LW forum... if you do not use LW or think LW is not the best tool that’s great, I applaud you and think its awesome that you have an opinion but please keep it to your self in regards to LW in THIS forum. Post that information in one of the other forums when it is pertinent.

I think you would be offended if I was in the Max, Maya or XSI forum and started talking about how I think LW is better there or start talking about things I feel are short comings in those packages...

No package is perfect, we all know that. But some of you act like we have no right to be passionate about our 3D app… and we have all the right in the world to be as passionate about it as we like. If that upsets you… I am very sorry but that does not give you the right to tell me how much it upsets you here. Again, this is forcing your beliefs or opinions on me.

Opinions are great, but adults learn to pick there battles… This is a LW support and discussion forum not a place to bash LW when you personally disagree with someone’s comments especially when that person has been or is working in the business…

Just my 2c…

NOW…

Why do I think so many small studios use LW…

I think it is because of the work flow, LW has a great modeler and one of the best rendering packages out there… all for a great price. LW also has a great community support as well.

I know Timothy Albee uses LW because he personally feels LW is the best package for his work flow. A lot of others feel the same…

[Qexit]

LOL Ejecta.

Now we jut need a bonfire and some marshmallows!

-E Looks out of window.......Yep, plenty of bonfires burning out there, but fortunately not a marshmallow in sight. Plenty of toffee apples, parkin, apple dumplings, treacle toffee and baked potatoes though :thumbsup: Of course tonight, November 5th, is the occasion when we Brits celebrate Bonfire Night with bonfires, fireworks and lots of food. I'm still not quite sure exactly why we celebrate the failure of a bunch of conspirators who attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament by burning an effigy of Guy Falkes on a bonfire......but any excuse for a party I suppose :twisted:

[Chuck Baker]

Ring ring...

Hello?

Hey Pot this is Kettle.

Hey whats up?

Not much just calling to tell you.. you're black.
Very constructive of you. This kind of condescension toward others is what took the thread off track. There is nothing that couldn't have been said with regard to applications without a stir if it weren't for the ad hominem and the attitude, and ad hominem and attitude are the only types of contribution you've made to this thread. It's a shame to see the moderator encourage that.

[RobertoOrtiz]

I see your point Chuck.
And for the health of the forum, I am taking my own baby
and shooting it.

Guys, we have to stop these Sicilian Vendettas.
-R