"Taken" BF109 vs. B17

[kevjon]

The model you are building is inaccurate but it is closest to the F model of the ME109.

You can download good plans for this fighter from here http://win.www.airwar.ru/other/draw_fw.html

Hope it helps in your assignment.

[Frank Dodd]

I think that authenticity is a lot less important for a creative production than style and a believable model howver Kevjon has given you some excellent reference images there that will let you hit all of your birds with one stone.

Although there isn't too much in the posted WIP at the moment it looks well modeled with a good level of detail, keep it going.

[Synthesizer]

@kevjon: Yeah, that model was based off a picture of the "F" version. I am pretty sure now that it is an "E" version in my movie so I am going to redo it. Thats for that website :thumbsup: I was kinda scared when I saw the first part was all in Russian :scream:

@Frank Dodd: Thanks for the encouragement. I would like to make it as accurate as I can within the timeframe that I have to work on this, but this will be used for medium to wide shots, so the over look will be more important like you said.

Here is the start of the Bf109-E, I will post more updates later today.

[Synthesizer]

Here's an update. The textures and lighting are just to give a feel of what the scene might look like.

[kevjon]

Hi Synthesizer

I guess my previous response was a bit short and has been misinterpreted a bit. Your modelling skills are very good. What I was trying to say is that what you have modelled so far isn't a completely accurate F model.

Historically BF109-E's were never used against B17's. It was the F or G model of the BF 109. More G than F. I haven't seen the movie but it would be nice to make it more believable by making it reasonably historically accurate, as you clearly have the skills to do a good job of it.

But given you are pressed for time, its probably best to continue with the E. It will be difficult to model and texture two aircraft in a month without working on it full time.

When it comes time to texturing your aircraft, if you haven't seen it you might want to check out Skyraider3d's aircraft texturing tutorial http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252 for tips and pointers.

Hope this helps and I look forward to further progress.

This site has plans for a B17 http://aviacherteg.narod.ru/ however it is even more russian than the previous. You need to hover your mouse over the buttons and check the status bar of your web browser to get english translation clues. It isn't too difficult to navigate around once you know.

PS I still think accuracy is important when modelling real world subjects, whether it is a car, airliner, military vehicle or aircraft. It just makes the finished work better and more believable.

[--mi--]

Hi
There are a few models of Bf109 you could use in your animation.

Bf109 G-6/R4 (from 1943) had additional gunpods under wings with 2x MK108 - 30 mm cannons
Bf109 G-10/R6 (from 1944) had additional gunpods under wings with 2x Mg151/20 - 20 mm cannons
Bf 109 K4 very clean and one of the most beautiful 109 :)

All that versions were designed or redesigned for fighting B17. All you have to do is to look at the blueprints posted here:

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/index1024.htm

Hope this helps :)

cheers

Michal

[Synthesizer]

Thanks for all your help everyone, keep it coming!
Hmm... I wish that I had known more about these planes to start with :blush:
From the video (which isn't the best resolution, or quality) they look like the "E" version to me and as I am supposed to be copying the movie, I guess I should make the same version that they did. I wouldn't expect the people that made to movie to know (or care) much about the historical accuracy as the movie is primarily about aliens.

It has air-intakes on both sides and square wing tips which I have only seen on the "E" version (correct me if I'm wrong). I will continue with the "E" as it took me forever to get the exhaust to get the right curve along the side.:scream: I would, however, like to make an accurate "E" version, now that I've started. Look for more updates tomorrow!

[Synthesizer]

Hi,
Well, I've uploaded a low quality movie of what I'm copying. I cut out all of the cockpit scenes because I will just be copying those into my final comp. The link is below.

"Taken" Clip that I'm supposed to copy (http://www.simonbarsky.com/bf109/Taken_Low_Planes.mov)

[kevjon]

Hi Synthesizer

Cool video clip, I'm looking forward to seeing your version.

Yep it is definitely the E model of the 109 in the video clip. The braces supporting the tailplane were on the E but were not on the F or G models.

The B17's are the G model which is correct for this time period. The G has the chin turret under the nose which was installed to discourage head on attacks by the german fighters. Early versions of the B17 did not have the chin turrets.

I'll keep and eye on your progress as it is a interesting project.

[Synthesizer]

Ack! Sorry about the long time with no updates. I was learning lip synching at school all last week. Here is a small update, rendered with my new comp:)

[Synthesizer]

Here's an update. Now I got to go make my lip sync guy sing a song :)

[JerryB]

Historically BF109-E's were never used against B17's. It was the F or G model of the BF 109. More G than F. I haven't seen the movie but it would be nice to make it more believable by making it reasonably historically accurate, as you clearly have the skills to do a good job of it.

That's not strictly true ;) Some Bf109Ts (a long-wing variant of the Bf109E) shot down an RAF Coastal Command B-17C in (IIRC) 1941. The B-17C is an early variant and looks different in several areas to later versions.

[JerryB]

It has air-intakes on both sides and square wing tips which I have only make an accurate "E" version, now that I've started.
What do you mean by 'air intakes'? If you mean the one of the side of the nose (which is for the supercharger), there was only one of these, on the left-hand side ;)

[Skyraider3D]

It's starting to look nice, although some areas aren't entirely accurate.
Both B-17 and Bf 109 are made million times in 3D already, but the scenario Jerry sketches is quite original and would make an interesting and refreshing scene. Both T-model of the Bf 109 and the early B-17s in RAF colours are very rare and would make a refreshing change from Bf 109/B-17 G-models...



As for Spielberg's cute animation... those 109s are indeed E-models which is a bit nonsense. Also the attack techniques they use are 100% Hollywood! What a shame... O well, the glowing thingies don't do much good to the scene anyway. Otherwise some nice and inspiring action! :)

[Synthesizer]

Hmm, I am getting quite a history lesson here :thumbsup:
Is there much of a difference between the E and T models? I would like to do that, but I only have until the 23rd to do this, so I may have to sacrifice some accuracy to be able to finish it in time. Sorry all you WW2 plane fanatics :sad: Besides, you wont even see much detail in the final movie, so I am looking more for a good overall look, rather than evey detail modeled completely accurate.

What do you mean by 'air intakes'? If you mean the one of the side of the nose (which is for the supercharger), there was only one of these, on the left-hand side
Well, I thought I saw two in that movie, but I guess not. It seems every pic on the net of a Bf109 is of the left side, so how was I to know :p

Which parts should I fix up Skyraider?

[Skyraider3D]

The main feature are its extended wings.

Have a look here for info about the T-model of the Bf 109.
http://www.adlertag.de/flugzeuge/bf109teng.htm
http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/php-frames/bf109-frame-t.php (use drop-down box in top-right of screen for photos)

Camo:
http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/Literatur/Luftfahrt/Flugzeugprofile_Norwegen_Bf109T.html

Drawings:
http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/pics-bf109t/bf109t2_001-risszeichnung.png *
http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/pics-bf109t/bf109t2_002-risszeichnung.png *
http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/pics-bf109t/bf109t2_009-risszeichnung.gif

Scale models:
http://www.mokei-wadachi.com/reikai2004/200402/bf109t2.htm
http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/choy109t.htm
http://distk.hp.infoseek.co.jp/kani/bf109t.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/pmodels2/mybf109t2.html (note: you can e-mail the webmaster to get the instructions, which will contain some camo schemes)

It seems every pic on the net of a Bf109 is of the left side, so how was I to know :pFor 109 pics, there's only one site to go to:
http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de (http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/)

Okay, maybe two :)
http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/index1024.htm
Check out the walkarounds! The E-3 is there too (on which the T was based). You'll find any detail you're looking for on there :D

And while were at it:
http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1997/07/stuff_eng_detail_bf109e.htm


But the whole Bf 109 T/B-17C encounter may not be appropriate in your case. The RAF Coastal Command machine most likely operated on its own and not in a big formation like USAAF B-17s.

...but I only have until the 23rd to do thisTo be very honest, you should be happy if you get the Bf 109 model finished before this date at the level of detail you are currently putting in. If you want to get to animation - and make a B-17 as well - it's time to literally cut corners and make low-detail versions of the plane. Modelling planes is the easy bit... texturing takes much longer and animating can take forever!! Not trying to discourage you, merely warning you that there is an incredible amount of work ahead of you and you might want to revise your plan to avoid disappointment and lots of stress at the end.

[kevjon]

That's not strictly true ;) Some Bf109Ts (a long-wing variant of the Bf109E) shot down an RAF Coastal Command B-17C in (IIRC) 1941. The B-17C is an early variant and looks different in several areas to later versions.

Hi JerryB,
I stand corrected !


Synethesizer,
I would just keep going as you are as your assignment is to copy the movie. I would'nt worry about trying to get a accurate 109 or B17 as you have your work cut out for you to finish in the allotted time as is. Perhaps later on when you have more time you might do a accurate version and historically correct to keep us happy :D !

Actually Speilberg's story is based on UFO reports by B17 crews where strange lights were seen to follow some formations. How much truth there is in such stories is another matter though but I think this is where Speilberg got the idea.

Should be good and hope you finish on time.
I'll keep and eye out your progress and will refrain from passing comment on the accuracy of the models.

[Synthesizer]

Wow! Thanks for all of those links Skyraider! I'll have to check them out now.

I would just keep going as you are as your assignment is to copy the movie. I would'nt worry about trying to get a accurate 109 or B17 as you have your work cut out for you to finish in the allotted time as is. Perhaps later on when you have more time you might do a accurate version and historically correct to keep us happy :D !
That sounds like a good idea:thumbsup:

I'll keep and eye out your progress and will refrain from passing comment on the accuracy of the models.
Lol:D

I have now until Monday off from school, so I think I will work on this day and night. I guess this is preparing me for a production environment:p

[Synthesizer]

Hi,

I am at a loss for making the wings connect to the body and having them line up with the panel. I like how Skyraider did the wings on his Yak for that texturing tutorial, but I cant figure out how he lofted those curves that he made. Could anybody help out here?

[Skyraider3D]

It's all about edge management here, so to say.

Here are two links which may help you:
http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264 (go to last example - it shows engine-to-wing fillets, which are similar)
http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312 (hole-in-loop trick)

The basic trick is to make rings (edge loops) around the opening you'll make for the wing fillets. This to ensure the shape will be accurate and the smoothing will look ok. On the 109, keep the fillet relatively small.

On my latest model, the P-51D Mustang, I simply bolted the wings on:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1540382&posted=1#post1540382
I later cut the fillet in half (by connecting an edge ring) and moved the new edges slightly inwards to make it rounder (not illustrated in the wireframe).

I hope this helps. :)


PS. Forget about the Yak, it's done with splines and patches. With polygons it's easier :D

[Synthesizer]

Thanks for those links Skyraider! The only problem is that the plane is modeled in Maya with NURBS. I will have to convert it to polygons, though, to texture it, so maybe I will start making that part with ploys to begin with. The only problem I have with polygons is lining it up to look smooth.

[Skyraider3D]

Maya NURBS, doh! I forgot about that... :shrug:
In that case it should be easy, shouldn't it? Cut out the holes in the sides of the fuselage and build a fillet inbetween. Funnily enough not unlike that Yak... ;)

[Synthesizer]

Thanks for your help anyway. I wanted to redo the bottom part of the plane to match up with the wings, so I did it a different way.

Here is where I'm at now. I only have to finish the tail and put guns on before I can start texturing. Then its on to the B-17:scream:

[:zepedro:]

Hi Synthesizer :)

Nothing to crit really, considering the rush, this one is going pretty well indeed!! :thumbsup:
Now lets go to the texturing, where you could had some of the details you skipped in modeling and that will be needed for the animation, if any... remember, the planes will be moving fast ;)

Following this one, keep up the good work :)

greets

[Skyraider3D]

Thinking now... the Bulgarians undoubtedly used their Bf 109 E's against American B-24D bombers. And they had striking colourschemes too!!!
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109e4rl_1.htm

The B-24D Liberator will be quicker and easier to make than the B-17 and will look quite intersting in its desert camouflage (with plenty of opportunity for weathering!).
http://www.brooksart.com/Ploesti.html
These planes were used against Bulgaria too and had to cross Bulgaria to get to the Romanian oil fields!

They might have been using G's by the time the B-24s appeard, though. But the A-20/B-25/B-26 would be cool too! :)

Here's an interview with a Bulgarian fighter pilot...
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/stojanov/stojanov.htm

Could be cool? :)

[Synthesizer]

Ack! You and your historical correctness:) I'm not sure what I'm going to do. The point of the assignment was to copy a movie, but more specificaly the camera moves, so I might do that. But as kejon said, I think I will redo this after the I hand it in with more detail and more historical correctness. Maybe I could do one of the Bulgarian vs. the B24 using the real attack techniques. I should be able to finish the Bf109 today, so I will think about the bomber.

Thanks for your encouragement zepedro! I will be following your plane as well. I hope to start painting the textures later today, so there may be an update with that later.

I am having a horible time converting the Nurbs to polygons.:sad: It ends up not lining up on the edges and there are alot of normal smoothing errors. Does anyone know of a good way to convert Nurbs to polygons?

[Synthesizer]

Well, I have got everthing into polygons, so now its on to the texturing.

http://www.simonbarsky.com/bf109/bf109_nov13_side.jpg
http://www.simonbarsky.com/bf109/bf109_nov13_top.jpg
http://www.simonbarsky.com/bf109/bf109_nov13_bottom.jpg
http://www.simonbarsky.com/bf109/bf109_nov13_close.jpg

[Skyraider3D]

There are a couple of serious accuracy flaws in your model (mainly the tail unit), but given the limited time you have with this project, I'd indeed slap some camo on it and continue with your bomber! :)

Alternatively, you could set up your animation first, using both 109s as aggressors and as targets. In case you don't have time to make a bomber, you can still make this work. For example you can have German Bf 109 E's bounce a flight of Yugoslavian Bf 109 E's. The invasion of Yugoslavia is probably the only occasion where Bf 109 E's were fighting eachother! :)

[kevjon]

Hi Sythensizer

One down and one to go !

Maybe on the B17 just use image maps for the engines to save time. I'll keep watching to see if you can build your B17 as quickly.

[Synthesizer]

Well, I've got some textures started for the plane. I think I will start the bomber now, then animate everything, then if I have time I will work more on the textures. Sorry Skyraider, I am going to make a B17-G, because our assignment was to copy a movie. However, after I am done this assignment I want to make a really good, historically and technically correct animation. Maybe I will do one of those many varrients that you have suggested. Thanks for all your help. I wish I knew as much about this as you do.

I'll keep watching to see if you can build your B17 as quickly.I hope so:) For the image maps, did you mean the front and back of the engines?

Edit: I forgot to add the pic:scream: I need to finish this soon, my brain is melting:)
http://www.simonbarsky.com/bf109/bf109_nov13_textured

[kevjon]

Synthesizer

I was thinking of doing a simple disk for the B17 engines and creating a texture map for the cylinders. It just depends how close you come to view of the engines in your animation whether you should model more detail into your engines.

What have you based you camouflage scheme on for the 109?
Is this the same camouflage as the movie or have you just used artistic licence ?

[Skyraider3D]

What have you based you camouflage scheme on for the 109?
Is this the same camouflage as the movie or have you just used artistic licence ?He must have, cause I've never seen a 109 with that camo and those markings. And with 33,000 of them built, there were a lot of oddities around... :D

[Synthesizer]

Lol! I sort of based it on the movie. But this was the result of about 5 minutes in Photoshop scribbling with the brush.:p I just found a really good website on the camo here: http://www.flugzeugwerk.net/camo.htm That in the movie, one of the planes appears to have an arrow, followed by the cross, followed by a horizontal line, which would make it a Gruppen Adjudant and part of the B? Gruppe. I will paint something better today and start modeling my B-17.

And with 33,000 of them built, there were a lot of oddities around... :D Does this mean its good or bad?

[Skyraider3D]

Hehe, what I meant was that among the 33,000 Messerschmitt 109s built, there were many many examples that weren't following the standard rules considering markings. But the one you have made is unique! :D

Drop me an e-mail (http://home.wanadoo.nl/r.j.o/skyraider/contact.htm) and I'll send you the markings I made so you can stick them on your model. Also download my Luftwaffe font (http://home.wanadoo.nl/r.j.o/skyraider/ttf_bff.htm) if you're planning on sticking on numbers.

What you'd need to change mostly is the upper wing camouflage (two-tone splinter) and crosses (remove the white outline but add white corners). Also the yellow tailband meant the plane served at the eastern front, where it was unlikely to encounter B-17s. I'd remove it altogether.

[kevjon]

Skyraider is quite right as he know this stuff really really well.

I know your on a tight deadline so I didn't want to say anything about the inaccuracy of the camouflage.

Looking forward to progress on your B17.

[Synthesizer]

Yeah, that camo sucks. I will work on it more in the next few days. Here is the start of the B-17. Let me know if you spot any major inaccurate spots as it will be easier to fix them now, rather than later. I think I just might be able to finish this on time :hmm:

[Synthesizer]

Here is an update :)
I'm going to get Half-Life 2 after school today, so I hope I can stop playing it long enough to get this assignment done :p
Btw, anyone know of a good, free FTP program?

[Skyraider3D]

Haha you bad man! Once you get your hands on HL2 you can forget about finishing that animation!!! :bounce:

As for a good, free FTP proggy... I highly recommend you http://www.smartftp.com

[Synthesizer]

Hehe. I managed to drag myself away from my computer and go to school. I guess I have until the 26th to finish, I have no idea where I got the 23rd from. So that means I might get finished after all. I played HL2 until 3AM last night. And I have to get up at 7am to go to school :scream: Here is an update on the B-17, its almost done, just adding a few more guns, then texturing. I should be able to start animating soon.
http://www.simonbarsky.com/cgtalk/b17_nov17.jpg
http://www.simonbarsky.com/cgtalk/b17_nov17a.jpg

[Skyraider3D]

Nice going mate. Only significant flaw I can see are the wingtips. They are too square and need to be rounded off. Also I believe the inner and outer engine nacelles have different sizes and they look the same on yours.

[Synthesizer]

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to animate this. Should I use animation curves or keyframes? I am finding this really hard to line everything up. Anyone know of any good tutorials on matching camera moves? Thanks.

[Skyraider3D]

Animating planes is a bit of a b*tch, really, because of their high speed. I've recently been doing some animations and what I found worked resonably well is to have the plane follow a spline and at the same time have the spline follow a complete 3D mirror of itself at the same speed. This way, the plane behaves naturally (it follows the spline) but doestn't move so you don't have to struggle so much with your cameras. This will work great for the B-17s.

For the 109s you need to have movement though, so you need a third spline which basically is the path the 109 follows relative to the B-17 (imagine the B-17 static, how would the 109 fly?).

A bit tricky, but a lot better (I think) than firing two planes at eachother and hoping they behave as expected :D

Good luck! (lots of it!!!)

[Synthesizer]

Hmm, this seems hard for me to understand. So you have the first spline. This would be where you want the plane to go? Then for the second spline, is it the same shape, except the other spline follows it backwards? And then for the Bf109, you have those two splines follow the third? Maybe a picture would help me. I kind of think how this could work, and it would be helpful to have the Bf109 animate relative to the bombers. Thanks!

Is this sort of what you meant? The thing is stationary, but moves left to right.

[Skyraider3D]

I just created this little animation that hopefully will explain you what I mean.

http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/images/PlanePath.gif

The blue spline is a an instance of the grean spline, but scaled to -100%. The plane follows the green spline, which itself follows the blue spline. As you can see, the plane rotates but doesn't actually move around in the 3D world, making life a lot easier when it comes to editing cameras and keeping track of the action in the viewports.

[Synthesizer]

Thanks Ronnie!
I am having problems lining everything up with the camera and such though. Does anyone know of any good tutorials about matching 3D to film or about airplane animation? Thanks.

[Synthesizer]

Here is the early pre-vis animation. Let me know what you think.
Pre-Vis Animation (http://www.simonbarsky.com/cgtalk/taken_previs1.mov)

[Skyraider3D]

Looks promising! :thumbsup:
My only comment so far is the movement of the Messerschmitts at about 16 seconds. They seem to fly with their nose aimed down.

[kevjon]

Well done Simon, it looks great so far, its shaping up very much like the movie !

Still a bit jerky here and there but I'm sure you'll iron that out in the final versions.


How did you create the enviroment (sky and landscape below) ? It looks good.
Just interested to know as I'd like to have a go at aerial animation in the near future myself.

[Synthesizer]

Thanks Kevin and Ronnie:) I know this isn't the best, but I'm running short on time:sad: I used Terragen to make the environment. This was just for a reference of where the sky and clouds were, so it took about 5 minutes to make. It is a really good program for skyboxes. You can get it here: http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/

P.s. Is that too much camera shake? I just used a script that does it, it seems a bit unnatural to me, so I will fix that up.

[kevjon]

Thanks for the tip on Terragon and skyboxes. I'll look into it.

As far as camera shake goes, I personally don't think you have too much camera shake. I found the ME109's at 2 and 3 seconds to bounce around too much and Ronnies comments on nose down is worth correcting.

There's also a problem at about 17 secs with a 109 getting stuck on the right of the frame, but I haven't commented on these things as I know it is only WIP and as such its shaping up very good.

You've really inspired me to have a go at something like this as well.

Looking forward to your textured versions.

[Synthesizer]

He he.:) The plane that gets stuck is actually outside of the view. It is just visible because I did a playblast in Maya (basically it does printscreen and saves to a movie and it grabs a bit more then what will actually be rendered) and the high res model is hidden once it goes off the side.If you need help with Terragen, send me an email, but I might not have time until after Monday:) Then I have to make a 3D character in a live environment, before Christmas break:scream:

[kevjon]

Thanks for the offer Simon !

I'm working on Me262 jet and then I need to model up a B26 Marauder for it to attack, so still quite a bit of work to go yet before I'm ready to try the animation. I'll keep your email on file and may ask further questions of you then, maybe sometime early in the new year.

In the meantime, keep going, it's looking good. Those foo fighters (glowing balls) look tricky to represent ?

PS I particularily like the sequence when the 109's come out of the sun, don't know if you done it on purpose or by coincidence but its very good !

[Synthesizer]

Well, that sky is more of a place holder than anything, but I read that the best way to attack is out of the sun so your enemy can't see you, so I thought it would be cool. About those foo fighters, I'm going to use point light with light fog or something. I cant wait to see your animation. When I finish this, I want to make a really good animation and work on it for a lot longer.

[kevjon]

Your quite correct about the sun thing, but it was usually in fighter vs fighter engagements. Against B17 bombers they usually attacked the weakest point in the formation which is usually the outside or lead aircraft. Still it looks great in your animation and I really like the effect.

When I finish this, I want to make a really good animation and work on it for a lot longer That would be great. You definitely have the skills and talent to do a good job of it and it does need more time to make the airplanes and camouflage more accurate and get the enviroment, animation, lighting, gun flashes etc together. I'm very impressed with what you have acheived so far in the short time, its looks and feels very much like the movie already.

Here are two of my favorite animations by Tochy. If you haven't already seen it you might want to download "1945" video and "wings1" for a bit of inspiration. http://www.angel.ne.jp/~tochy/

Don't expect to much with my animation as I have no experience in this area and will have to learn everything from scratch, but after seeing yours I'd certainly like to have a go at it and will be looking for tips from you and Ronnie, but that is for the future.... I'll let you know though.

Looking forward to your final version !

[Synthesizer]

I'd be expecting something from your animation, as this was my first time animating planes as well :thumbsup: Thanks for all of your nice comments. I will post an update later, with the tracers and muzzle flash added.

[Synthesizer]

Well, I've "finished" the animation, as it is now due. I will be posting a link to it tomorrow, when I get a chance to upload it. Here are some stills for the moment. I cant wait to do another plane animation, that I will be able to put lots of time into.:) I had to cut all the parts with those blue lights as I ran out of time.

[kevjon]

Looking forward to your animation Simon to see how it went. You've done well to finish such a big task in the short time you have. It'll look more realistic without the glowing balls anyway.



Originally posted by Synthesizer
I cant wait to do another plane animation, that I will be able to put lots of time into.
That would be cool, be a bit easier the second time around as you had to figure out a lot this on this project.

[Synthesizer]

Here is the link to the animation:
Taken Final Animation (http://www.simonbarsky.com/cgtalk/takenfinal.mov)

Yeah Kevin, the next time around will be alot easier and better, I'm hoping ;)

[Skyraider3D]

Given the incredibly short timeframe, I think you've done an excellent job!!! :thumbsup:
Hope to see more of your stuff in the future :)

[kevjon]

Yep, well done simon !

The only major crit from me is the propellors spin too slowly, everything else came out pretty good. The gun flashes came out really well !

I look forward to your future work, hopefully you'll find time and motivation to do more polished version in the future, complete with more accurate aircraft, camouflage and markings (maybe pilots as well).

[Synthesizer]

Thanks Ronnie and Kevin! I think I will start working on another one right away, but obviously it wont be as fast as this past one:) Can you guys think of an interesting/rare battle that happened? I would like to do something that hasn't been done to death already (like bf109's and b17's:D )

P.s. I was planning to motion blur the blades, but I ran out of time to render that, so this is what it ended up as.

[kevjon]

Hi Simon

Here are a couple of ideas out of hundreds that would all make good animations.

Ki84 Franks attacking B29 Superfortresses over Japan 1945
F4F Wildcats attacking A6M2 Zeros over Guadalcanal 1942
F4U Corsairs and A6M3 Zeros over Bouganville 1943
Spitfires and Hurricanes attacking He 111 - Battle of Britain 1940 (its also been done a lot)
F6F Hellcats attacking Zeros and Oscars and a range of Japanese aircraft known as the Mariannas Turkey shoot. 1944
ME110 Night fighters attacking Halifax, Stirling or Lancaster Bombers 1943-44 (night scene) 1943-44
Me262's attacking B26 Marauder Formations (this is the one I want to do) 1945
Dambusters Raid by Lancaster Bombers 1943
F86 Sabres against Migs (Korean War)
Me109G's or FW190's attacking B24 Liberator formations perhaps over Ploesti oilfields.
There are also a lot of battles on the Eastern front between the Germans and Russians that would all make interesting animations.
If you want to make the scenes reasonably historically accurate you would of course need to do some more research. I would strongly suggest you do further reading for ideas and inspiration.

If you are looking for good blueprints of most of these planes follow the links in this thread http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128

Hope it helps and keep us posted as I think you could do a really good job of it.

Hopefully Ronnie or some others will also have some more to add to the list.

[Skyraider3D]

If I were you, I'd look at the Mediterranean theatre. The most interesting combat happened there, as many different forces came together there. The Germans and Italians on the axis side. The British, Americans and French on the allied side. And that's far from all. You also have Bulgarians, Turks, Iraqis...

So let's say have Italian Mc 202 intercepting a flight of Free French Maryland bombers? (not sure if it's historically authentic);
Or a B-26 engaging Me 323 transports over the Mediterranean (this happend for real);
Or the famous Malta battles (Gladiators versus SM79s and CR42s).

I hope you won't go fot the B-17/Fw190/Spitfire kinda things... Try something more "exotic" :)

Eastern front stuff would be wicked too. For example Romanian IAR.80s intercepting Pe-2s escorted by LaGG-3s. Should be cool! :cool:

If any of the aircraft types are unknown to you, simply go to http://images.google.com (http://images.google.com/) and type it in. Be sure to have safe search on though, LOL! :D


And why WW2? The Korean war is extremely interesting too. Or just as good, the Spanish civil war!!! Lots of interesting planes to be found. Have a look here for inspiration:
http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/SpainAir.htm
Great site! :thumbsup:

[Synthesizer]

Thanks for the ideas. I am wanting to do something different, so I'll look into those.
And why WW2?Because I like it :) lol
I'll do some more research and let you guys know what I think.

p.s. I kind of want to do I high altitude fight, what kind of unique/rare/possibly Canadian planes would be involved in those? I just love those contrails on your Mustang pic Ronnie, now that I know what they are:p

[Skyraider3D]

If you're definitely want to do Canadian stuff, I think you're left with little more than Lancasters and Halifaxes. I suppose on a cold wintermorning they will leave contrails.
And then having Me 110s, Ju 88s or He 219s attacking them?

You gotto make this one then :D
http://www.gotgeckos.com/cproc/lancaster.jpg
("Piccadilly Princess", serial NG347, QB-P from RCAF 424 Squadron)

[kevjon]

Canadians were certainly involved in the airwar in Europe but I think they were generally part of british squadrons. For example British bombers sometimes consisted of mixed crews of British, New Zealanders, Aussies, Canadians etc (Commonwealth countries). This was also the same for British Fighter squadrons throughout the war.

I don't know if there were Canadian only squadrons (some research required here). So you might want to make for example a Canadian Spitfire, mosquito or Lancaster crew the main focus of your animation. Certainly a lot of the allied aircrews were trained in Canada (out of harms way if you like).

Whatever you chose to do, pick something that inspires you. Read books, magazines, scan the web, watch a few documentry videos. I'm sure in no time you'll have a stack of ideas.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Skyraider
Nice nose art. Very Vargas inspired.

[Synthesizer]

I'm not sure if I want to do a Canadian plane, it was just one idea. I got some books out of the library today, so I will look through those to see if I can find some ideas. In one of the books there was a foldout thing that is about 30cmX70cm. On one side is a Bf109-E and on the other is a B-17G :) I definitly want to do something unique now, lol.

[kevjon]

Well for unique you might want to research up on Skyraiders previous suggestions. They are all very good ones.

Or you could do what I am doing. Pick a aircraft you particularily like, start a WIP on it and while you are working on it start doing some research on the scheme you would like to do and the pilot who flew it.
Then think about how that aircraft could be incorporated into a animation. The research will also keep you motivated with the model as aircraft are quite time consuming to texture due to all the panel lines, rivets, small stencils and markings. This could be another way of approaching it.

[Synthesizer]

Hmm, that Malta battle with the Gladiators is sounding interesting. Do you have a link or some info about it anyone?

[Skyraider3D]

Simon, the Maltese aircraft were called Faith, Hope and Charity. They defended Malta from continuous Italian air raids with Sm.79 tri-motor bombers and Mc.200 and CR.42 fighter escort.

Please have a look here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=faith+hope+charity+malta
That should get you started! :)

There are a few artworks of this historical event already. What could make yours more original perhaps - besides being in 3D - is to show the battle more from the Italian side; with the Italian aircraft trying to fight off the Gladiators buzzing around them.

[kevjon]

Simon

Skyraiders suggestion is a very good one, it would make a great animation and I don't think I've seen these aircraft modelled in 3D (but I'm sure somebody has done it).

[Skyraider3D]

I'm afraid somebody has already (Jerry Boucher (http://www.the-vaw.com/html/gallery3.htm)), but it's still worth doing - especially if it's gonna be animated.

[Synthesizer]

I think I will do this animation. I could even do it for my final project at school. I am going to start modeling the Gladiator first and I will post my wips soon. Thanks for your help guys, I'll be expecting it will continue with this project :)

[Skyraider3D]

Drop me an e-mail... I should have some Gladiator references laying about! ;)

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