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View Full Version : Painter lX not worth it


batzilla
10-23-2004, 04:28 AM
I have 8 and downloaded 9 and its not worth the money imo.

Also,how long is it gonna take for the developers to get mixing paint right?

Deep Paint did this right with version 1. Painters new "Artist Oils" are lame.

Oh well, maybe X will get it right.

Back to DP and PS...

Cometsoft
10-23-2004, 05:32 AM
Also,how long is it gonna take for the developers to get mixing paint right?

Deep Paint did this right with version 1. Painters new "Artist Oils" are lame.

Never having used Deep Paint, how did they get mixing paint right?

I like the "Artists Oils", could you be specific about why they are lame?

Bars
10-23-2004, 09:18 AM
IMHO Painter IX is much better than P8, the brushes i use work much faster: example - Round Camelhair. The interface and workspace is fully customizable, last used palletes and brushes are saved automaticly, i dont need to save them every time i use different one. I dont use Artistic Brushes, so cant say if they are "lame" or not, but you should use the version that works best for you. So far Painter IX is the one for me :)

rebo
10-23-2004, 11:08 AM
Painter IX is the best version for me because it is quick enough.

brenly
10-23-2004, 02:30 PM
Whats so lame about the artist oils and also the mixing. Sorry, but your post is a little lame. You should enlighten everyone to exactly what your talking about. From what I can remember the mixing is pretty right 'annoying' .. I always hated how colors mixed in real life especially oils.
Have to say I was a little let down with this new upgrade at first, but Im slowly coming round. It feels much more solid and responsive. Im so glad they didnt add more gimmicky stuff, altho the sketch book thing ??
AND you can flip the canvas!!! I just worked it out, makes life much easier!

batzilla
10-23-2004, 05:00 PM
what I mean by lame is that when you mix blue and red on the canvas it comes out brown/grey not purple. When you mix blue and yellow it also comes out brown/grey.

It also seems that mixing in the mixing palette works alot better than on the actual canvas.

In Deep Paint Blue/red = purple and so on..

I've heard that DP isnt going to be continued. Dont know if its true but it blows away Painter when it comes to mixing paint together. It just works.

Painter is an AWESOME program,no doubt,but it STILL cant get a basic real life feel when it comes to oils,acrylics etc. You have to work back and forth too much with blender brushes imo.

I hope DP continues. It cant hold a candle to Painter on alot of thing BUT it wins hands down when it come to mixing.

Jinbrown
10-23-2004, 06:10 PM
IMHO Painter IX is much better than P8, the brushes i use work much faster: example - Round Camelhair. The interface and workspace is fully customizable, last used palletes and brushes are saved automaticly,...
Just to clarify for people who might misunderstand:

Last used brush variants are, just as they were in Painter 8, listed in the Tracker palette up to a maximum of 25 brush variants at one time (or the same brush variant with different setting adjustments made by the user).

These brush variants with user setting adjustments are not automatically saved brush variants.


i dont need to save them every time i use different one.
If you want to save the brush variant with your setting adjustments, you do need to save it as a custom brush variant. That is not done automatically.

Any user settings made to a brush variant are only saved temporarily in the cached variant, or brush variant with the same name as the default brush variant and for which the file name is preceded by "c_". If other setting adjustments are made to this brush variant later, the cached variant is overwritten to reflect the new setting adustments and the previous cached variant is gone.

Again, the only way to save your custom brush variant settings is to save the brush variant as a new custom brush variant with a unique name not already used by Painter (this is true for any Painter version).

Lunatique
10-24-2004, 04:22 AM
I have used Deep Paint on and off for about 4 years, and it doesn't come close to Painter. I even tested Deep Paint for Right Hemisphere and gave them a list of comments and suggestions to their project engineer. Basically, I told them, "Take a look at Painter. You guys need to match that in order to compete in the market."

Deep Paint had some great things going for it, but the brush engine just wasn't quite there interms of speed, efficiency, and dynamics.

f97ao
10-24-2004, 05:01 AM
The upgrade to Painter 9 is far, far better than an upgrade we have had for a long time. So if it's not worth the money, then I don't know what would be.

The Artists oil are not lame, they are extremely cool. And yes I have used Deep Paint alot, and didn't like it that much. Well yes, it was a great start, but then nothing happened.

The thing that got me very worried was the Painter9 demo that was for download. You could not change any standard settings for the artist oils. Please tell me that this was only in the 9.0b demo. For example does the brush still automatically rotate when you move it, and is not connected to the wacom intous pencil direction? I would be very happy to know that it doesn't spin around out of control like it did in the demo.

/Andreas

brenly
10-24-2004, 09:52 AM
Batzilla .. I brought up this issue along time ago .. blue+yellow=grey. It depends on the blue that you use. U cant really use a deep blue. Even Photoshop suffered the same problem from what I remembered. From what I remember its a quirck of light or something.
So your saying deep paint gets green from blue and yellow?? Id like to see an example of it.

Bars
10-24-2004, 10:02 AM
Jin, yes i didnt said it right, what i meaned was:
In Painter 8 when using custom color palette or brush set, you need to go to preferences of Painter and set the names for Color palette and Brush set to be loaded automaticly on next start up. If not, Painter 8 is loading with it default brush sets and colors. In Painter 9 once loaded custom brush set or color palette, they are saved automaticly, and on next start of program they are loaded, without changing anything in options of Painter 9. Sorry for misunderstanding!

@batzilla: "Painter is an AWESOME program,no doubt,but it STILL cant get a basic real life feel when it comes to oils,acrylics etc. You have to work back and forth too much with blender brushes imo."
Well im not using blenders, there are very good brushes that simulate real life painting /not 100%/ and if you know how to work with them, you dont need to use any blenders at all. Just spend more time with Painter IX, try everything in it, make your own brushes etc. Its a great program. Good luck!:thumbsup:

Erik Heyninck
10-24-2004, 12:05 PM
So, if I understand correctly, the downloadable version is not the version one gets on a cd. So then you are against buying a serial online?

I also read when browsing the download/buy serial over at Corel uk that there is an activation procedure now. Style CS, WinXP, ZBrush2,...Is this true?

AbueroAllenstein
10-24-2004, 12:19 PM
Haven't you realised it, guys? It's a type of speach, the so called "flamewar initializing style".

It's obvious that 2d apps will propably never reach the level of natural mediums.

I must confess I wasn't able to try painter ix, one question - how artrage pencils compare with new ix ones?

Ben Sones
10-24-2004, 09:31 PM
Batzilla .. I brought up this issue along time ago .. blue+yellow=grey. It depends on the blue that you use. U cant really use a deep blue. Even Photoshop suffered the same problem from what I remembered. From what I remember its a quirck of light or something. There is an excellent book that explains this aspect of color theory called "Blue and Yellow Don't Make Green," but the gist is that Painter works almost exactly like actual paint in this regard, despite what batzilla says. Get out your oils and try mixing, say, cadmium red and cerulean blue. What color does that make? Yep--it makes brown. How about Cadmium red and ultramarine blue? Kind of a bluish brown. Try alizarin crimson and cerulean blue (sort of a reddish brown). In reality, only certain shades of red and blue mix to make violet (specifically, those shades that are biased towards violet on the color wheel). If you want to mix violet, you just need to start with the right colors.

batzilla
10-24-2004, 09:55 PM
I made a mistake. You're right about the color mixing. Painter does it better than Deep Paint. Painter is the BEST program out there for 2d artwork.

And I agree,if you want purple just start with purple.


If you want brown just mix any 2 colors together :)

AbueroAllenstein
10-25-2004, 01:52 PM
I made a mistake. You're right about the color mixing. Painter does it better than Deep Paint. Painter is the BEST program out there for 2d artwork.

And I agree,if you want purple just start with purple.


If you want brown just mix any 2 colors together :)
So lovely of you, you agreed with your mistake. The more people like you, the better world is.

I hope you're not sarcastic. Neither am I.

Jinbrown
10-25-2004, 04:44 PM
Hi guys,

Please cut the rudeness, sarcasm, insults, and other inappriate comments.

It's a waste of time for anyone coming here to learn about Painter and it's boring to boot.

Thanks.


About mixing colors:

It's true that it's easiest to pick colors from the Colors palette.

Or,

Experiment until you find the right red and the right blue to make purple.

For mixing green, use yellow and cyan.

RGB colors are not the same as pigment. They're light based, and won't ever be the same, exactly.

There are a few other ways to mix colors (including some examples mixing for purple and green) explained on my PixelAlley site at:

A Few Ways to Mix Colors (http://www.pixelalley.com/tutorials/a_few_ways_to_mix_colors.html)

That page was written before we had the Mixer palette and people wanted more ways to mix colors than mixing on the Canvas. Maybe it'll still be of some help.

Lunatique
10-25-2004, 06:25 PM
The Painter Forum is probably the most well-behaved forum at cgtalk--I haven't seen people been rude or unfriendly to each other since the day the forum was created. It would be a shame to see that record get broken.

onlooker
10-25-2004, 07:22 PM
This is actually fairly silly if you ask me. Why is paint mixing so important if all you need to get is a shade of purple? I don't know where PC's get it, but if your on a Mac you can just use the Apple color chooser, or download a more artistic Apple chooser such as Painter's Picker. ( http://www.oldjewelsoftware.com/products/ppicker/index.html) (which is what I use)
I only use the paint mixer pallet to slightly modify a single color. Never have I tried to mix a set of colors from the spectrum when I have the full wheel Range available, and all of the painter assets besides.

Ben Sones
10-25-2004, 07:44 PM
I find it easier to achieve consistent atmospheric effects when I mix paints from a limited palette, rather than simply picking them with the color picker. Of course there's nothing wrong with picking colors from the color picker, either--everyone has a different working method, and as long as you end up with the image that you want, then your method is right for you. Personally, I like to mix my colors from a pre-selected range.

batzilla
10-25-2004, 08:49 PM
I actually wasnt being sarcastic. But now when I read it back it sounds like it.

After messing around more with 9 I'm starting to come around. It does seem faster and once you get the hang of mixing its better than I first thought.

I guess I was just so used to how DP worked.

onlooker
10-25-2004, 09:31 PM
I find it easier to achieve consistent atmospheric effects when I mix paints from a limited palette, rather than simply picking them with the color picker. Of course there's nothing wrong with picking colors from the color picker, either--everyone has a different working method, and as long as you end up with the image that you want, then your method is right for you. Personally, I like to mix my colors from a pre-selected range.

Don't get me wrong. I use the palette rather extensively. I just meant that I don't try, and mix one from the ground up using colors from a rainbow spectrum, or anything. If I need purple I'll pick a few fairly close then slightly add, and mix in from those.

I usually build a custom palette(s) into my Apple color chooser from my paint mixer just in case, and that helps me keep my footing sometimes.

That's what I meant. :)

f97ao
10-26-2004, 03:06 AM
The Painter Forum is probably the most well-behaved forum at cgtalk--I haven't seen people been rude or unfriendly to each other since the day the forum was created. It would be a shame to see that record get broken.
rant:
Is it really that friendly? I haven't been on CGTalk that long, I'm mostly on the 3dsmax section and the news, and they I think are normally very good and professional
Everytime I peek in here there is often alot of negative ehm spirits if I say so. I remember I was on a digital paint newsletter for a long time and there were alot of problem with the attitudes there. Lots of insults and almost impossible to get good critics on paintings. I remember most people got very confused when I asked if they liked my scetch and if they had ideas on how to improve it. They thought that painting should really be an inner journey that you make alone and noone should comment on the pictures etc. Not a very professional an useful atmosphere in _my_ opinion.

So I have somewhat concluded that there seem to be more aggressive people when it comes to 2d painting than in many other computer fields. I think one of the first posts I posted here, where I wanted more undos in Painter, users told me that my painting style wasn't good and that I should change it and some negative comments about me needing lots of undoes which was obviously a flaw. Very unprofessional and if many feature requests are met with that attitude I do understand why some 2d programs don't evolve much (compared to say 3d programs)

I'm not trying to offend any of you, I'm sure most of you are great guys and don't fit into the picture above at all. But it seems that many of us do need to be a little more open minded and not so judging all the time. I dont think it's a good sign that I feel hesitant to post anything in this Painter forum since I doubt I will get a serious answer with no or little insults.
Of course it could be me asking the questions wrongly, but then again why have I only encountered this problem in 2d painting forums (and ok if you go to game forums folks aren't always that mature, but that is understandable)

Anyway, I hope this is taken in a constructive way. I think we can do better, myself included.

Cheers

/Andreas

brenly
10-26-2004, 09:19 AM
Hang on, have I missed something here???? I dont sense any abuse in this thread, maybe I have to reread everything again, but I feel that this is a topic dealt with constructively.
On the topic of color mixing, I have to say that it is vitaly important!! Im talking about color mixing on the canvas. Im so happy that in Painter 9 the water color brushes work much more solidly. In 8 they seem to have problems mixing colors. Everynow and then youd get some bizarre color mixing?? Red + Green = purple. I like to do my color mixing on the canvas and not on the color mixer.

brenly
10-26-2004, 09:29 AM
Onlooker, I just checked out the painter color picker!! PCs are so so lame when it comes to graphics, we have always been 10 steps behind Macs. PC version is limited to the standard color picker that comes with Painter. Ive always thought that they could improve this part of Painter. I hope Corel can get some ideas off the Mac version and implement them into the PC version. For artist like myself that would be much better than the color mixer.

Now I understand your confusion on the matter. Makes me want to get a Mac.

onlooker
10-26-2004, 08:15 PM
Did you download "painters picker" the documentation? There are a lot more (about 70%) features that are in the documentation that are not in the web page. It's a good Picker to add to multiple pickers that come standard with OS X. I actually think the standard Apple color picker wheel itself is much deeper in appearance, and rich with color. There are a few good things about Mac's. When it comes to color I think they deal with it the best.

Graphics card drivers, and OpenGL could use some improvement.

brenly
10-27-2004, 12:52 AM
Nah, one look at it was enough!

Buy the way if anyone wants to understand color and color mixing thoroughly they should read this. Especially if you come from a painting background itll clear things up. Its heavy going reading but I highly recommend it.

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/color7.html (http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/color7.html)

Garma
10-27-2004, 09:34 PM
edit: missed brenly's link.

:banghead:

forget it.

brenly
10-28-2004, 03:47 AM
Sorry, I dont know why the link came out in such a difficult color to see??

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