Grand Space Opera 2D Entry: Daniel Helzer

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1098471476_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1098471476_large.jpg)

This is sort of a concept and a basic color study. I really like the idea of jet packs and thought it would be cool to see waves of them involved in a ground war. I plan to have a lot more and not have them appear so flat. Again, it's just a concept.

Thanks.

[Smash.rs]

Nice start dude, i like it. Maybe you could put some dark shadows in the humans in the foreground.

[MechaHateChimp]

Hi Daniel,
Definitely cool. The scene from the edge of the cliff is nice. I think if you brought the camera angle up a little more looking down to not only see the cliff but what is below as well would make it even more dramatic. Looks great so far though. Thank you for your comment on my sketch. Good luck!

[funkbuttah]

I like the concept a lot. It looks like a Custer's Last Stand kind of thing, a battle of unimaginable odds, and it's down to some serious hand to hand combat.

I like the red harmony too, and I'm with Smash.rs that some greater value contrast is needed in the foreground.

Looking forward to more.

[element5]

I do like this concept, does work very well :thumbsup:

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1098745386_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1098745386_large.jpg)

First, I would like to thanks everyone for their input...much appreciated.

I went ahead and expanded the scope of the above concept. Hopefully, it has a more epic feel.

I consider this a value study (or, I guess, line art) I did it in grayscale, but decided to add a monotone blue before posting just to make it a tad more interesting.

My plan is to continue will the value study: refine, refine, refine. Once, I feel satisfied, I start the color concepts.

Thanks, again.

Helzer

[danielh68]

Hmmm, for some reason I couldn't edit the above text...anyhow, I meant to say "thank everyone" instead of "thanks everyone".

Oh, yeah, one more thing, it's evident I flipped the image. I kind of liked how the tension/drama increases from left to right. I may change it later...or, I may not.

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1098748381_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1098748381_large.jpg)

Quick update: I added a couple more ground bases receding into the horizon. I'm not sure if I will stick with one or many. The couple extra seems to deepen the scope of conflict, though.

[malcolmvexxed]

I like this quite a bit as it's developed. The sense of action is growing from left to right and the foreground and mid ground are allowed to breathe separately with the new layout now. I'll be following this one

[AirbORn]

I like this scene. It has a great sense of scale and action. Can't wait to see more. :)

[Slav]

that's a great image. keep it up.

[NinjaA55N]

well... it is a promising start, its just that the picture has so many elements thats starting to be a bit confusing. Cant tell whats the main part... I would cut those giant spacestations in the back. I think the fight and some more flying spaceships/machines will tell enough.
Just my opinion :)

[Peddy]

this piece should be good! has a good sense of story, and im for some reason imagining this piece with a painted look, almost like oil. either way, good luck, and focus on getting those character kickass!!

[danielh68]

Thanks for your comments everyone. I haven't had time to update it, perhaps in the next couple of days.

NinjaASSN: Yeah, there are a lot of elements. I do want it to be choatic and dynamic and, yet, tell a story. The scene is one in which the natives (who are not noble savages, but brutal ones) overpower the human occupiers.The stations, under attack, have begun evacuation and the Flyers are just there to deter the aggressor's momentum.

Hopefully, via atmospheric perspective, I can separate the fore, mid, background planes more. The foreground will ultimately be more detailed and richer in color, especially in the area where the hero is rescueing the princess.

Whether I succeed in this endeavor remains to been seen. Anyhow, thank you for your input. Much appreciated.

Peddy: Thanks. I think you'll get your wish, most all my work looks like oil despite it being digital. I really like the hyper realistic pieces that often grace this board, but how they do it is beyond me. I just stick to a style I enjoy.

Here are a couple random pieces of mine that will give you a crude idea of what the final Space Opera piece will look like ---stylistically that is.

http://www.blitzdesign.net/dsg/werewolf_becoming.jpg


http://www.blitzdesign.net/dsg/fetish_combat.jpg


http://www.blitzdesign.net/dsg/ill_hovercraft.jpg

[Coldblooded]

WAW! A REALLY good stuff...i like it a lot...

the blue atmosphere is good... just thinking - some other colours? just for the variety :)
Keep going!!:)

[NinjaA55N]

OK than.. impressive new sketchews, especially the very last one.

[Peddy]

oh hell yeah! i feel your style will help this piece a lot. in your previous work, some forms are not entirely defined at the edges, and i think that subtle look will enhance the 'chaotic and dynamic' feel you are aiming for by potentiall mixing forms together. best of luck (skill)!

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1098994337_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1098994337_large.jpg)

Had an hour of spare time today to work on the composition a bit more. Basically, I cut out a section from the painting, increase it to 600dpi and began fleshing out more values and forms. Still, have a lot of work to do to this guy...nonetheless, made some progress.

Thanks.

[element5]

Way cool..... love your drawing style. Cool bondage chick what a place to hold your feather duster....hehe. great stuff :thumbsup:

[JTD]

Fantastic concept on the Moons of Valor! I think your artistic ability is spot on. I’ll be looking for you in the top submissions! What software is this? Painter?

[danielh68]

Thanks guys.

JTD- I use both Painter and Photoshop. However, I just purchased Painter 7 earlier this year and I haven't bothered to learn the nuances of the app. In fact, whenever I need to resize something, flip it or merge layers, I take it back into PS. I hear Painter 8 has more features similar to PS, which for me is a good thing.

The best thing about painter, though, is its natural media. I think I only use three or four brushes: charcoal, guache, blender and an oil brush. That's about it. I know Painter is capable of a lot more, just never investigated the other stuff.

I general do the first 60 to 70% of my paintings in Painter, then on the last milestone, I revert back to Photoshop to finish up. For detail and precision stuff, I prefer Photoshops tools.

Again, thanks everyone.

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100028020_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100028020_large.jpg)

Just an update on one section of the painting.

Thanks.

[V_Shane]

I use both Painter and Photoshop. However, I just purchased Painter 7 earlier this year and I haven't bothered to learn the nuances of the app. In fact, whenever I need to resize something, flip it or merge layers, I take it back into PS. I hear Painter 8 has more features similar to PS, which for me is a good thing.


Great work! I use both Painter 7 and PS as well, I have tried 8 and 9......ALL painter programs really don't do well resizing or rotating without blurring and making things muddy. Keep all the tech work to Photoshop and do all the aesthetics in Painter.

[PauGfx]

very very good! :eek:
reminds me of dungen and dragons :-)
i have only one critque, the eyes of that dragon head looks to nice. almost like a puppet,
will you shange it to somthing more "evil"? :-) no more crituques for this time :-)
i can only say a great progress!

/Pau

[OKMER]

Great start!!!
Really epic it is,Are you going to keep the bleu as dominant color?
Looking forward to see how'll work this out!!!

My grinnt spacepra
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=184953

[danielh68]

Thanks for your comments everyone. I appreciate it.

OKMER - The color composition will be the last thing I do. I'm just working with a few values of blue to define the value scheme first. Thanks.

[BloodTaster]

looks great man! no critics at this time ( maybe is more fantasy than sapce opera...for me)
just keep it!! excellent job:scream:

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100125339_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100125339_large.jpg)

Again, thanks everyone for your input.

I'm starting to refine the forms of the two protagonists.

It's problably becoming more and more evident that this will be a retro piece in homage to Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers and other sci-fantasy-adventure serials of that era.

[oldhobo]

This one's a blast, can't wait to see more. Great movement, dramatic space.

[Don_Barro]

wow

loved it"! very Frank Frazetta

A monster a hero and a scared girl


:applause: keep the good work!

[NinjaA55N]

Very nice painting, love the dragon character. What would be the color scheme like? I guess it wont stay in desaturated blue or will be?

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100284582_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100284582_large.jpg)

Thanks everyone.

Some of the forms are becoming clearer. Still a lot of work to be done. I underestimated how long this project will take. I decided to change the pose of the girl. The first one (lower left)looked like she was having a picnic just before hell erupted. The revised one is a little more dynamic, melo-dramatic, etc. I can of imagine her scrambling, tripping and stumpling her way to the top in attempts to evade the alien nomads. The bottom right image is the movement of motion I'm trying to create and the apex is right where she is.

NinjaASSN: Right now it's just a value study. I generally, at first, work in grey values. Occasionally, I will hue it to some color just to get some sort of emotional response as I work. I haven't really thought about color composition, yet. That'll be last. I know many artist work everthing at once, unfortunately I'm not really good at that. My approach is somewhat linear. When I work in grey values first, I can focus more intently on the problems of composition, form, character expression and narrative. Once these are solved,then I have fun with color. Anyhow, thanks Ninja for your comments. Much appreciated.

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100284837_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100284837_large.jpg)

Sorry, uploaded the wrong image.

[ChrisThatGuy]

Oh good, I'm not the only one working in greyscale first. :)
Great concept and composition.

[NOOB!]

this is all so excellent!!!

[NinjaA55N]

It really doesnt matter hows ur work procedure, what matters is a final result :) The new pose of the girl is better, I agree. Maybe u could rotate her head more to the dragon, thats how u'll create more dynamic and more realistic effect. Somehow she'll be crawling away from a horde, and in a panic she will be faced to the attacker from the back, not expecting help.
And I still think that the spaceobject in the left back side is a bit too big and make too much attention, pulls viewers eyes away from the main action. My opinion :)

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100307319_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100307319_large.jpg)

As an alternative, I changed the angle of her face as NinjaAssn recommended. Comments are welcome. Personally, I like the new one. Thanks Ninja.

[danielh68]

....although, now looking at them side-by-side for while, the first one has a certain look I like: The look in horror movies when the monster is behind her and she only moves her eyes while the rest of her body is frozen in terror. Hmmm, it's a tough one. Again, though, it's not a very real response...unlike the second one. Do you like A or B?

[danielh68]

Yeah, after mulling it a bit, I will stick with the revised one. The gesture looks more authentic and sense these figures are relatively small compared to the entire composition, the turn of the neck will be more readable than the turn of the eyes.

[ecura]

Concept is different and interesting. Going into a little bit more detail, should the guy on the dragon be buckled up with some kind of safety belt or structure to secure his seating position. My theory is the dragon would swing around quiet dramatically, in such case that guy would have no chance of clinging let alone do any battle. Already looking very detail and very nice. Keep up the great work!

[NinjaA55N]

Well, i think that the second one is better, more readable. When the first one is like u said, like a horror movie poster, its also stuck and the whole image is sudenly stuck as well. The viewer stops at that particular detail and get the feeling of unnatural movement. The second is at its start, so u could still make a perfect look/expression to the girls face, but her pose is now much better. Still just my opinion.

[danielh68]

Ninja: great observation. you are right, the second is much more of a natural reaction. thanks.

ecura: Thanks. you suggestion makes sense, but the front center horn is actual a saddle horn and not a natural extension of the serpent. The nomads use their legs and the saddle horn for securing. I think if I gave them harnesses and safety belts they would begin to look technological and safety conscious. Rather, I'm looking for something more raw. Kind of like how the Thai's ride their elephants behind their head and navigate with their feet or the way Native Americans race bare-back on a horse across the plains. That sorta thing. In any case, I appreciate the input. Thanks.

[ecura]

In that case, your theory makes logical sense. I'm sure that nomad has his legs griped tightly on that dragon when they do the swinging. Great work and details to the story behind it.

[Tonsen]

Howdy there Daniel,

I really like what you've come up with! Great work so far. I'm curious as to what your recent composition is. In the post where you uploaded the wrong image...the thumbnail of the whole piece, looks perfect for a two page spread in a magazine. And the cropping for the larger image I think is excellent! You have a top left to bottom right diagonal flow to the piece, which is creating a great sense of movement and action.

Are you still planning on including the city and scene on the left? If you are, I'd rethink the position of the dragon, because he's acting as a border against the whole left of the piece. If you're going to stick with the right stuff, then I think you're on a great track. Whatever way you go with, I'm sure you'll figure it out, it's looking great so far.

Also, it's a bit unclear as to what the figures' motivations are. The damsel in distress is perfect, heh. The guy in the jet flyer thing, looks like he was out sight seeing, somehow lost control and just realized he's heading straight for that serpent's face. Perhaps he could have a weapon of some sort. Also, his device seems a bit weak, compared to the situation around him. Just try for kicks, lassoing his figure, tightly, and moving it up inbetween the two jet things. Might make him look more intimidating and less touristy :) All just suggestions for you.

Excellent work...I'm looking forward to your updates!

[Russell_Collins]

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. I would like to second the comments that the girl's newer position is definitely better and that the guy in the flying chair thingy could use a little more aggressive posturing. Overall, I also like the fact that you're working in Greyscale because you can affix your tonality and play around with hues later on without much effort. Yes, I know this is simple in Photoshop, but I like the good ol' days of water-color paint-overs.

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100458282_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1100458282_large.jpg)

Russell_Collins - Thanks Russel. The protagonist is still developing. I intend to make his posture as dynamic and aggressive as possible within the confine's of the Hornet's seat. Thanks for the advice.



Tonsen - Yes, that thumbnail will eventually become the entire composition. That thumbnail may look to have seams running down it, but they are really just the hard edges of placed images. Basically, I cropped of an area, save a new file at high res and work on it. Then, for purposes of posting, I place it back into the thumbnail. The final one will be seamless.



The cities will be there, but you make a good point by the dragon behaving like a border. In a way it should, sense I want the eye flow to follow the direction as indicated on this rough.

I would consider changing around the composition to see what is most effective, but I have already invested so much time into that area and there's still so much to do, that my main priority is to finish before the deadline.

However, you're point is very valid. So I thought 'maybe I should add a secondary dramatic scene in the lower section to attract the eye down before looping over to the main climatic scene.' With that thought, I doodled in a second hornet unloading on a native crawling over the back of the serpent. It almost acts like an arrow saying 'hey follow the action this way'.

Hopefully, this will elivate some of the problem you mentioned. Great advice. Thanks.

In addition, I plan on placing a gunner between the jet engines. Perhaps a retro style laser guy or something that just shoots bullets, like a gatlin gun.

Although, I don't want the main character using the gun in his rescue for reason unclear: perhaps it malfunctioned or the heroine is at risk, something like that. Anyhow, I want the action to be bare-fisted. It's just more intimate that way.

Again, thanks everyone for your helpful critiques.

[danielh68]

retro style laser "gun"...not "guy". Opps.

By the way, that's an older rough. I have everything in pieces right now. The new one will have the revised woman's pose.

[element5]

Coming along, no crits alls been adressed :thumbsup: Nice one.

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1101181017_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1101181017_large.jpg)

I got a chance to work on it today. Still a lot work to be done, though. Just thought I post a status.

Thanks.

[dragongirl]

I really like the guy riding the dragon. Cool idea. And I do like the coloring, it has a nice cool tone to it. Will you be keeping it that way? or adding non blue highlights, becuase that could look interesting.

[taz23]

Hello Daniel, you have what a call a classic approach. The one big thing about this approach is that the composition is static. OK, you got you characters and your theme but you sacrifice the action by balancing and equilibrating the composition. The guy on the flying thing doesn't seem to have enough power to punch the orc-like creature, the orc doesn't seem to be punched at all. If you erase the flying guy, the orc seems to look in the other direction but doesn't seem hit in the face by someone. Try to rethink the composition by using a new camera angle with a more dramatic perspective.
Good luck on your work mate, you got grate talent for details :thumbsup: I really like that!

[andreasrocha]

Looking very good. Your rendering technique is very good. The only thing you could improve in your last post is the placement of the flying guy. His right arm is almost "touching" the head of the other one, and his left foot is also "touching" the other guys arm. When I say touching, I mean in terms of 2D not in terms of 3D space. Just move him a bit up and to the left and I think it would improve it.
You could also lengthen that cliff a bit so it overlaps the neck of the "dragon", or perhaps remove that whole hole, so it doesn't detract from what is really going on, to the right.

Great work!

[oldhobo]

nice progress - this pic is one of my favorites. I wonder if the guy in the hoverchair is anchored a little by being behind the clustered figures on the ground. He's throwing a great punch, with a great expression on his face, but he seems too far to land the blow, and the creature he's swinging at seems not to have felt it. I look forward to seeing this develop.

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1101354449_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1101354449_large.jpg)

dragongirl - I really don't know about color at this point. It's the last thing in my mind. Right now, it's still a value study. Once the value study is complete, I will begin coloring it. Thanks.

taz23- Your input is appreciated. I will work on the orc-like creature that's receiving the punch and make it more impactful. As far as the composition, that was just a small section I posted. Here's the overall picture. I wanted it to be operatic (word?), panaramic and epic. Whether I succeed or not remains to be seen, but it's too late in the game to start anew. Just not enough time. In any case, thanks for you comments, they are very much appreciated.

andreasrocha - I apprectiate the comments, I will experiment by moving him up a notch and see what works best. There will natural be a lot of changes between now and the deadline. I plan to blur some sections of the hornet to add movement, plus there will be rocket fumes. Thanks again.

oldhobo - Thanks for the compliment. I agree with you. It seems like the consesus is that it the center of action needs a little more tweaking. Again, I will experiment and keep what works best.

Thanks again, everyone.

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1104196178_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1104196178_large.jpg)

I'm pretty much finished with the line art portion. Here it is.

[danielh68]

http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1104196692_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4625/4625_1104196692_large.jpg)

Spent most of the day coloring the background's mountainous area.

Next month, I'm relocating to a new job, I hope I can the find the time to finish this puppy.

[walrus]

Daniel - Hey there! It's looking good! I hope that you'll find more time to work on it in the next few weeks. I like that you've separated the foreground from the bacxkground with cool and warm hues, but the statios/towers in the background stick out as being in the foreground's warm hues even when they're clearly way back in the background. You could try adding increasing amounts of blue/purple to them to integrate them more into the background.

I also think Taz had some excellent points about the poses of the orc and the man in the flying contraption, and hope that you will get time to consider them.

Good luck with the relocation... Are you moving far?

-mike

[danielh68]

Thanks, Walrus.

Actually, all the yellow parts are the underpainting. I have yet to start the towers and the foreground. However, when I do paint the towers, they will be rendered with cool hues. The foreground, though, will be warmer.

I agree, Taz had a good remarks. I will probably refine it later as I make progress to a final version.
By the way, I'm moving to Reno. Thanks for your consideration.

[Tranchefeux]

Hi, I had not seen your work, it is very good I like the sequence of
the characters particularly,
Good road.

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