Transformation relative to subobject

[sadist]

Not sure if I'm thinking of the same thing as I haven't used mirai, but you can rotate/scale around a vert in max by using 3d snap.

Set 3d snap to vertex, reference co-ord system to 'view' and change your pivot to 'use selection center'. Then just snap the vert you want to use as the pivot and rotate/scale.

[dvornik]

Maybe I misunderstand something, but 'use selection center' would transform selected subobjects relative to their own center, not some other vertice.

I don't think it's possible with default tools. Do you think it's possible to script? Cause you can hinge from edge in max 5, which is a step in the right direction. If you look at mirai they hinge, rotate and scale from edges and vertices like there's no tomorrow.

On a similar note, why the hell discreet didn't put an extrude manipulator (like in maya) in max 5, they got these nice rotate and scale gizmoz, why not an extrude gizmo?

[sadist]

You're not actually using the selection center as the pivot, it's just the snap marker (little blue cross) won't come up unless you set it to selection center or transform center. Theres actually a few ways it works, just not with local or parent rcs's.

While this worked perfectly in 2.5 (that i can remember), it's been getting progressively less useful in each version...

You still can't hinge from edges (just the center of edges which is pretty useless if they're not aligned to an axis)

[dvornik]

I'm sorry, Grant. What you are talking about sounds like what I'm looking for but I'm unable to make it work.

Here's what I do: Activate snap to verts. Set selection or transform center as a pivot from a drop-down. Set to view coordinates (also tried world and screen since that's what I use usually). Then when I go to the vertice I want to rotate around I click on it and it gets selected, obviously. What do I do wrong?

I just looked at all of the csPolyTools and they have a tool to rotate selected verts around selected pivot vertice. The interface is rather cumbersome but that's one of the tools I'm looking for.

Like you know, you're building a forearm and want to slightly rotate it around the inside of the elbow or scale it a bit?

[sadist]

Sorry man, I'm at work so I was being rather vague.

Select all the verts that you want to rotate, aswell as the vert you want to use as the pivot. Then when you move the cursor over the pivot vert, the snap marker will appear and you drag from there.

This is in 4.26, it may have changed again if your using 5?
Hope that helps.

Oh and the arm analogy, yeah I use it for that kinda thing all the time.
It's also really useful when you're physically unwrapping/flattening a mesh.

[visualboo]

avi > 355kb Here (http://www.visualboo.com/movies/helpers/rotate%20around%20vertex02.avi)

edit: forgot, it's TSCC. Get it Here (ftp://ftp.techsmith.com/pub/products/camtasia/tscc.exe)

[dvornik]

Thanks, visualboo, I can't believe you made a timelapse. I think I understand it better now. I was able to rotate an object around one of it's vertices. To change the axis of rotation i had to click on the rotation gizmo to activate the appropriate axis.

However, I wasn't able to make it work in subobject mode (which is the only mode where I need this feature). Or rather it partially works in polygons subobject. I could rotate a poly around one of it's vertices in one axis. I wasn't able to change this axis or to chose a vertice outside the poly.

Using max 5 by the way.

[dvornik]

Oh, Grant, I haven't read your post. Your method works, I can even switch rotation axis. That's a very good thing to know. Thanks a lot. I got the idea. Works on one axis at a time unless I'm wrong. Have to switch them manually, I mean it's different from max 5 rotation tool, but kind of like max 4. Great. Now if I could only scale like that.

Works in world and screen mode - I'm all set.

[visualboo]

hehe, I already had it :) I made that a little while ago for a friend.

Anywho, It should work in sub mode. Works for me anyway.

[dvornik]

Thanks a lot, man. It worked on vertices but I couldn't make it work on polys. Could you do freeform rotation with it like with max5 gizmo? I can only do one axis at a time. What's the shortcut for switching axis anyway, maybe that's my problem.

[visualboo]

Hmmmm, good question about the freeform rotation. I think, that's a negative (not positive though). If someone knows, pipe up. :D

Here's another timelapse :) (hot off the press ;) )
Here (http://www.visualboo.com/movies/helpers/rotate%20around%20vertex%20subobject.avi)

[dvornik]

Right. I've never seen anyone doing that until today. Convert to vertex would be a good workaround for not being able to pick outside vertices on the poly level (if it is a problem - maybe it's just me).

One more thing - you have to watch these screengrabs in slow-mo.

[visualboo]

Ahhh, I see what your saying now. Yeah, you lose your selection. Hmmm... Just lock the selection (spacebar I think, my keyboard is completely different). Might work.

One more thing - you have to watch these screengrabs in slow-mo.
Just run in place right in front of your monitor... I swear it will make it seem slower :D

[dvornik]

Just as a side-note it works quite bad with soft selection on the vertex level. Because the axis of rotation is also selected. - [edit] problem solved - see above

[edit] Dude, I always watch these things in slo-mo.

And the lock selection trick works perfectly.

All my problems are being solved in one day. Thanks for all your help, guys. Really appreciate this.

[sadist]

Umm, on a side not I have F5-F8 set up as x,y,z,xy for when gizmos are inconvenient. And a,s,d as move, rotate, scale..

[dvornik]

Thanks, Grant. I know I could just look it up, so I feel guilty about asking. QWER is default for tools now in max 5, they copied it from Maya.

[PokeChop]

Okay, I have just found this info to be very useful. Thanks everyone!

[LFShade]

I think this has been possible ever since they implemented snaps. It's a very useful tool as far as Max goes, but still not nearly as versatile as Mirai can be. I'm not saying this to be mean or start a software war; there's much in Max that I'd like to see in Mirai as well, and I use Max far more than I do Mirai. However, there are transform options in the latter that any 3D package could benefit from. In Mirai, you can transform based on sub-objects of another object if you want. You can specify any edge, or any pair of vertices (on any objects), as axes for doing transformations. While doing a screen-space transform, you can hold the middle mouse button to temporarily switch to screen-space-perpendicular (for instance, if you're translating in screen space, you could switch to translating toward/away from the screen). The list goes on.

I've done a lot of thinking about how some of these behaviors might be script-able in Max, but I've not found anything conclusive yet. Anybody? Bobo?

[dvornik]

There's a thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10200&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) in General Discussion on Mirai and the features they are talking about are amazing. Too bad you can't get it anywhere.

[sadist]

I'd just like the ability to use an edge/2 verts as a transform axis, would make things alot easier for complex models.

And yeah, it has been in max for ages, just since R2.5 you've had to stuff around with the pivot for snap to come up.


Hehe, while qwer is close, I still use my game keys (wasd etc.)
Actually I've pretty much remapped all my common keys to be in close proximity, the hand's just alot more relaxed in that pose for some reason :D

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