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kaajey
10-19-2004, 11:04 AM
Michal Kajaba has entered the Grand Space Opera 3D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/grandspaceopera/view_entries.php?challenger=4098)

Latest Update: Texturing: Surround
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1100878215_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1100878215_large.jpg)

Here is another image with some buildings a light and clounds

kaajey
10-26-2004, 10:45 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1098787523_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1098787523_large.jpg)

This is my first image made in Photoshop. I know its nothing special but I hope a better scanned image will be probably added in the future.


My vision:

There is large spaceship on the orbit near the Moon.The ship will use some foton beam to crash one of the Planets Moon and the meteors from the moon will cause vast devastation of the civilisation of the planet. In the foreground there will be a emperor /probably woman/ looking on the end of their world.

Please comment everithing you like and dislike too.
Good luck to everyone.

kaajey
10-26-2004, 10:49 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1098787766_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1098787766_large.jpg)

I made some buildings that will be used in the city scape. But I'm still working on others.

kaajey
10-26-2004, 11:02 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1098788542_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1098788542_large.jpg)

Ok so I made my test model of the city with 4 higher buildings. The houses at the feet of the scycrapers will be deleted and some higer complex buildings will be added.

RobertJ
10-26-2004, 11:04 AM
Not to rock the boat, but that building on the right looks like a building that i have seen in Yokohama this summer. It is almost next to Yokohama Landmark Tower (highest building in Japan with the fastest elevator in the world, 40 sec. to reach 275 meter) and close where the 2005 World Exhibition will be held.

kaajey
10-26-2004, 11:09 AM
I´re right I was looking for some moder scycrapers on the i-net and this one was quite cool.

RobertJ
10-26-2004, 11:15 AM
I´re right I was looking for some moder scycrapers on the i-net and this one was quite cool.
I can't blame you, i have been there, and some of the buildings there are of an even more bizarre design than i have seen here in the challenge.

kaajey
10-26-2004, 11:30 AM
So what do you people think about this idea of beeing crushed by hundreds of meteors, all city in panic and broken emperor who has to look at it all?

simoncvy
10-26-2004, 11:32 AM
Nothing wrong with getting cool architecture from real buildings :thumbsup: In fact several modern buildings look even more sci-fi than you see in films!

I like all the designs for individual buildings - but feel you need to work on the overall composition of the image before you put too much work into the city. Modelling too early might cause you headaches later if you decide you need to radically change something to suit a new composition idea. It will also help you work out which parts of the image will be largest in the final 2D image so you can focus your time on the most important parts of the image.

I would like to see your more detailed concept sketches including the woman in the foreground. I will keep an eye on this thread!

kaajey
10-26-2004, 11:39 AM
I am working on it but i need to find someone with scanner to scan it because painting in computer 2D is the worse I can make.

simoncvy
10-26-2004, 11:50 AM
I gave up on scanners a long time ago - I now use a digital camera to get pictures into the PC instead. Hope you find a way... even perhaps as simple as holding your picture up beside the screen and trying to copy it!

RobertJ
10-26-2004, 11:55 AM
I gave up on scanners a long time ago - I now use a digital camera to get pictures into the PC instead. Hope you find a way... even perhaps as simple as holding your picture up beside the screen and trying to copy it!
Why didn't think of that, at home my scanner finally kicked the bucket, and in my rush to get to my work this morning i forget to take sketches with me so that i could scan them here.

Doublecrash
10-26-2004, 03:15 PM
I like the idea of an Emperor/SomeoneWithPower watching the devastation. It could give a desolate, unique POV to your work. Not a simple goal to accomplish, tho.


Very nice buildings.:thumbsup:

kaajey
10-28-2004, 08:32 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1098995521_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1098995521_large.jpg)

So this is my scanned image. In the middle there is a queen and she is looking on the devastation
I dont know if I should make a side view of the queen

stoat
10-28-2004, 09:16 PM
I think that if you have the queen touching the glass of a panoramic window, her head slightly bowed in grief, you can see her from the side and slightly back, and also see her reflection in the glass full face. The thought needs to be given to how to convey her state position. A crown would be too cliche. You might have to settle for just powerful and wealthy looking.

kaajey
10-28-2004, 09:56 PM
Briliant idea. Thank you stoan.
She should look like a queen but not an old style queen with crown.
She should look majestic wealthy. Maybe view from interior will be sufficient to see that she is rich and powerfull person.

sad
10-29-2004, 06:54 PM
yes, stoat made a point here. i like your idea.

Doublecrash
10-30-2004, 02:24 AM
Hi


I think SimoncVy is right... I like a lot your buildings, and I already said it, but pay attention not to "over-model" until you have clear what will be, more or less, the final POV. That's why I've begun to model mine staying very low-poly, because it will be very cluttered at the end (like yours, for what I understand) and the risk is, really, to have headaches later.

Later ;)

Stefano

kaajey
10-30-2004, 07:08 PM
So what I want to do for shure is the queen standing at the front of a modern window.
She would touch it in sorrow and sadness looking at the devastation of her nation and whole civilisation. This will be done by other foreign civilisation,that will crush somehow one of the Planets Moon and the rocks from the moon will fall on th planet.


Later a final sketch will be added.

stoat
10-30-2004, 07:30 PM
Sounds good, I think it might be a good idea to set the scene in the early morning with the sun just starting to rise. this will make the texturing of the city a little easier and it will also give the viewer a slight sense of hope with the dawn.

kaajey
10-30-2004, 08:40 PM
I thought it would be at sunset but also at dawn is good idea.
will think about it.
After writing this I will make the queen model with a window.
I would like to make partial scenes and later I will compose all the stuff in to one scene...
Thanks guys for your ideas.. :applause:

kaajey
11-01-2004, 12:35 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099316119_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099316119_large.jpg)

this is the queen model looking at the devastation of her civilisation. Thee wall she is touching will be glass with a reflection of her and behind the glass will be the whole scene.

kaajey
11-01-2004, 12:51 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099317099_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099317099_large.jpg)

Another view...

kaajey
11-01-2004, 12:55 PM
I have to add some other detail like belt hair (that is not a detail) and maybe some jewelery.

dominicqwek
11-01-2004, 01:00 PM
wow, it's looking really cool. Yeah, the idea of the glass window is good, but you got to really make the cityscape impressive ya? keep up the great work!

Malapropos
11-01-2004, 01:38 PM
wow, queen is looking good man. As to her having a crown, may work out. Yeah it's cliche, but people will recognize right away.

The cityscape is looking good too, but maybe add a few more large buildings. Reference modern cities, there's usually larger clusters downtown, not so spread out.

keep it up, good work.

kaajey
11-01-2004, 06:08 PM
wow, queen is looking good man. As to her having a crown, may work out. Yeah it's cliche, but people will recognize right away.

The cityscape is looking good too, but maybe add a few more large buildings. Reference modern cities, there's usually larger clusters downtown, not so spread out.

keep it up, good work.

You are right.I thought about it that in no city there are only low buildings and only high buildings...
I will work on it.-thanks ;)

nuclearman
11-01-2004, 08:14 PM
Michal, the POV and work on the queen has a LOT of promise -- very nice idea. I'm a bit concerned how you're going to manage the devastation of the city; right now, the only thing that springs to mind involves using the particle tools in Combustion (which is really only an implementation of Particle Illustion) cranking out a helluva lot of layers for compositing. What's your plan for tackling that part of the image?

kaajey
11-01-2004, 09:30 PM
Michal, the POV and work on the queen has a LOT of promise -- very nice idea. I'm a bit concerned how you're going to manage the devastation of the city; right now, the only thing that springs to mind involves using the particle tools in Combustion (which is really only an implementation of Particle Illustion) cranking out a helluva lot of layers for compositing. What's your plan for tackling that part of the image?

I work in Maya so cluds and atmosphere will be done by Maya Fluids
And the trails by particles and Paint effects using some glow and dust
But I am about to manage it right now..

giggo
11-01-2004, 09:45 PM
hi,

hmmm, i like those futuristic building.....they look cool.....:thumbsup:
...and the queen, well....nice queen.....:beer:

Borro
11-01-2004, 10:37 PM
The buildings look great and the human figure is cool... keep it up... You have lot's of work ;) Well good luck and bye for now :D

emonimo
11-01-2004, 10:44 PM
Nice modelling and great idea, my only crit is that the skirt of the emperor is a little square, but perhaps you are just fixing it....

Good luck!!

ChrisThatGuy
11-03-2004, 02:21 PM
... As to her having a crown, may work out. Yeah it's cliche, but people will recognize right away....
If you want a crown that doesn't look cliche, why not design one that just doesn't look like any kind of commonly known crown? Why not something like a ribbon of precious metals woven through her hair, rising up in places to form points?

Pablorth
11-03-2004, 04:29 PM
That city is gonna look mighty grand! I like the concept also... I'll stay tuned. Great job so far!

Gamoron
11-03-2004, 04:49 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099316119_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099316119_large.jpg)

this is the queen model looking at the devastation of her civilisation. Thee wall she is touching will be glass with a reflection of her and behind the glass will be the whole scene.
Hey man. She's looking great so far. You should consider something totally different with her. Maybe you should leave the model bald like she currently is and tattooed. Maybe that's how royalty will look and distinguish themselves in the future. Just a suggestion, I'm sure there are going to be 20 Amidala's in this challenge.

Cheers!

kaajey
11-03-2004, 07:31 PM
Thanks guys. :love:
I am working on the Moon-rocks falling from the sky...
some of them will fall on the city.
But there is maybe one problem- how to texture the trails of the comet realisticly.
So my next entry will be the comet.

PauGfx
11-03-2004, 08:15 PM
Hi Kajey! this is realy good!
i haven read the story just saw the modell. very impressiv, the scene have "emotion" already,
will follow this thread too :-) goodluck! :-D

/P

Aethyrprime
11-03-2004, 10:52 PM
very nice. Interesting idea too. The modeling was done in what program? It looks very clean.

Kaksht
11-04-2004, 05:31 AM
Well she looks great, nice modeling. Btw, maybe You should get her reaching the window and touching it with one hand instead of nestling up against it, just a thought :)

Pablorth
11-04-2004, 07:10 PM
Beatiful concept... I agree with Gamoron on the baldness issue: shee looks so dignified and sad this way. I like her leaning towards the glass... You might want to consider giving a lot of space to the armaggedon behind the glass. Great work and nice modeling (love the relaxed posture). Keep it up!

stoat
11-04-2004, 07:16 PM
Yeah, I think I go along with the bald idea, maybe a pig tail or a strange single lock. I think she should have a tear on her cheek as well. Lovely model, is it Maya?

:D oh I see that it is.

young_927
11-04-2004, 09:10 PM
great model~ and pose looks great~

did you model her that way? or did you rig her?

Andrei2k
11-04-2004, 10:41 PM
I love how far the concept and 'feel' has come already. The only thing I think would REALLY make the landscape and juxtoposition between her and the devastation is if you made it a wider ratio image (not portrait). So if you literally add to the image on the right or left so it is lets say 3 times as wide as it is now that would be all you need for the composition IMO. Good luck.

*subscribed*

vrhead
11-04-2004, 11:14 PM
what a great idea and awsome modeling.. i cant model buildings to save my life heheh.. from the concept looked like the queen was emperor ming from flash gordon heheh

dayvbrown
11-05-2004, 12:38 AM
Indeed, very nice modeling on the queen, I've got to add my encouragement for the baldness issue as well, could give you a lot of freedom to design some royal tattoos and maybe link them in with the design of some of the signature buildings in the city.

As for the comet trails, does maya have volumetrics? I'm guessing it does, so use it! What you want is an initially fiery trail, here the particles can be small and emitting from the back half of the rock (with a few toward the front as well) and can also be mblurred, but see how they look. As they get older they grow bigger and change to a black\dark gray noise or smoke texture, the third stage would be losing density and becoming lighter. You'll want a noise texture with a fairly high coefficient to give detail and also lots of shadows! Rendering times of death, i know, but you need lots of shadow\light detail to get this sort of efffect working.

Hope this helps, if you want good reference go grab armaggeddon (don't worry you don't have to watch the whole movie... how painful) i think it is near the beginning that the meteor shower happens, at any rate it is good reference.

Dave.

stoat
11-05-2004, 08:31 AM
In the faq thread someone asked about putting up more than one final image, and the ruling was that that was okay but there could be no more than three.

I think this one cries out for two shots, with one being a close up of the queen crying. If you do this then it might be good to have the tear mirrored by a glowing comet shard seen through the glass at the point where the reflection of the tear would be. That would counterpose campassion and violence n a nice way.

kaajey
11-06-2004, 09:07 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099735650_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099735650_large.jpg)

These meteors are particles I know that they don´t look just like I wanted but I´ll work on it and next I´ll post some final modeling image and then I´m about to start texturing

TiTaNiuM sAMuRa
11-06-2004, 09:32 AM
The meteors appear as though they're all coming from the same point, spreading outward as though a bigger meteor had exploded; is this the intent?

kaajey
11-06-2004, 09:35 AM
Thanx dayvbrown for your help because i want do that really realistic and with particles I am not sure .


Thanx guys for your support.:bounce:

Pablorth
11-06-2004, 10:02 AM
I think that a good trail to emulate and take as reference appears in the Return Of The King, where Frodo and Sam are in Mount Doom: the fiery rocks that fall from the volcano have a nice look and an awsome trail. Also Armaggedon has some great meteor shots obviously. Going well! Keep it up!

jampoz
11-06-2004, 12:19 PM
Lots of GREAT ideas in this thread, I'm kinda amazed, don't envy you at all 'cause it must be hard to choose the right direction to pick ehehehe

I personally find it truly original to keep the queen bald and maybe tattoo a chrow like thing on her head, this will be spectacular if well done, and if you can texture as good as you can model then it WILL look spectacular!

I got another idea about the scene setup, what if we're looking the destruction from the queen point of view?
Her eyes... so draw the whole scene as normal, then put a glass as to filter it and on this glass we can see the destroied scene AND the reflection of her face, plus you can put her hands on the right/left of the screen, so we see her hand, the city and the reflection of her face

I think she should be sad but must not cry, I mean she's a queen after all, must be a strong personality I hope

kaajey
11-06-2004, 12:34 PM
Pablorth:
Yeeeees, good idea. I have searched over whole internet to find some armagedon pictures or comets pictures but there was nothing but comets in space.
But I´ll watch the final part of LOTR.
Thanks man.



Jampoz:
Another great idea.You people rock...
But there are lots of good ideas that i don´t know wich to use.
I´ll think about it.

kaajey
11-08-2004, 10:47 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099914453_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1099914453_large.jpg)

The final image should look like this maybe.
I have to add the comets and some colisons with the buildings

madshooter
11-08-2004, 11:13 AM
Man your scene has a grand epic feeling. Looks very nice. Nice progress:thumbsup:
Waiting to see more updates:bounce:

jampoz
11-08-2004, 01:56 PM
Oh really nice!

One thing, I don't think you should put the queen in the middle, I mean the city is the main thing and the queen just add more drammaticity (is that a word?)
I'd move her to the right, not that much but still a bit

And right now you got really little houses next to huge terrific skyscrapers, don't have sme buildings to smooth out this curve, if you know what I mean
There should be way more building at a middle height, but you're probably already working on this, aren't ya?


One question, will the shot will be taken a second before the meteors hit the city or when some of them already hit it?

kaajey
11-15-2004, 08:48 AM
Sorry guys. I've problems with my internet. So I am about to post later.
Currently I'm also working on Minas tirith project. But now I will continue this challenge.
Thanx.

kaajey
11-15-2004, 08:53 AM
Oh really nice!


One question, will the shot will be taken a second before the meteors hit the city or when some of them already hit it?
Some meteors will hit a large tower connecting the planet with some spacestation and some will be on the way.
I am affraid little bit about the trails how to manage them. I'll try to do something

element5
11-15-2004, 10:21 AM
I can see this is going to be a cool image Michal....one to watch :)

keetmun
11-15-2004, 11:44 AM
Greetings!

Your models look great! :thumbsup: IMO, I feel the queen should be placed more to the right. The right side of the queen has nothing, so it's basically dead information. You can have an even more dramatic view of the city as well.

Cheers, and don't take my comments too seriously if you haven't started composition!
:buttrock:

Squibbit
11-15-2004, 12:41 PM
Yea! Looks great !! especially that character , I went like WOW instantly !

You gonna keep that big building / little building scale difference in the end ?
looks cool :thumbsup:

nuclearman
11-15-2004, 03:19 PM
Michal, Keetmun and Jampoz have hit the nail on the head with their observations about the position of the queen. Because she is looking to her left, the viewer follows this lead ... which results in the compositional problem with the dead space on the right. Repositioning the camera, I think, is the key; you might also benefit from a tighter shot, so her emotions come through more.

And as Jampoz points out, some more variety in the height of the secondary buildings would help sell the illusion that this is an actual city. Right now, it appears there are no zoning regulations in your city -- kind of like Houston (which everyone knows falls far short of being an actual city -- just a collection of crazed Texans). ;-)

Kaksht
11-15-2004, 05:58 PM
Woah! Now that image is going to look spectacular when the meteors are going to crash into the buildings and the whole city, thumbs up! Really great composition!

fiftyfive
11-16-2004, 09:27 AM
ya this is going to be pretty sweet bro!:love:

kaajey
11-16-2004, 02:24 PM
Thanks nuclearman,Keetmun and Jampoz ..
I was only trying to compose it together just to encourage myself that this is good concept.

But you are right. The princess will be more to the right (maybe I add some furniture or royal decoration)

But I don't know if I should use some sandy texture or glassy texture on the buildings.
I didn't realize yet. If the buildings will be made of stone or glass(modern looking)
Thanx for help.

jampoz
11-17-2004, 05:52 PM
A royal medieval city would be in like... light stone, grey... wouldn't it?
But this is the future, to resemble this look I'd make the buildings using different shades of metal, from chrome to less shiny ones

Only thinking about a glass city makes my brain lagged as hell... render times will kill the comp
Using metal you can get rid or refraction at least, but that's the last thing to care about I guess

markw7
11-18-2004, 04:47 AM
Great project! You've got that whole "evocative" thing down completely in concept. I personally don't mind the composition as it is now, if that is an idea for the finished pov. I wouldn't put her way over on the right. Maybe even keep her in the EXACT CENTER, but only if the meteors are falling on both sides. If she's on the right wouldn't there be this implied idea that she could escape the destruction by backing away? I know, very subtle psychobabble, but just thinking as I type. Then it will feel like she's being overwhelmed by the devastation all round her. Like she's small, useless, completely incapable of doing anything about it. I'm not sure, does that work? Just an idea of course.

userBrian
11-18-2004, 05:33 AM
Yeah I like the feeling of empathy you get from her being closer
to the middle, like she wants to be with her people, in it, sink with
the ship if need be so to speak, rather than off to the side, like
the other guy said, like she can and will escape. She becomes one
with the centralized attack. Even though in my piece the foreground
character is way to the right, I did that to show the theatrical pomposity
of his emotion. He is actually not yet even aware that the battle is real.
But mine is a concept sketch and may change too.

My 3D Grand Space Opera entry (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=179803)

kaajey
11-18-2004, 09:24 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1100773467_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1100773467_large.jpg)

So this is how it will probably look like.
I asked about what shader to use on buildings.I've decided for metal glassy so the atmosphere will look like this maybe little more red or orange(little bit sunset or dawn).

Please Tell me what you think about the clouds and atmosphere.
Thanx to all

Virtuoso
11-18-2004, 11:19 AM
Getting quite a bit done here Michal...................A large scope.I think you should go with blue or orange,I think the combination would not work.............Either or....But thats me,you just might find the right blend...................I like the scale and ideas here,and wish you the best in getting this done as you have planned.......I'll check on you later,all the best..........:)

Poveda
11-18-2004, 11:57 AM
Really cool, good idea!

I really like the last pic you sent, I think you chose perfectly the composition of the scene.
Keep up the good work.

LuisNCT
11-18-2004, 09:09 PM
Like very much the buildings, and the idea is great, very epic.

kaajey
11-19-2004, 02:30 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1100878215_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/7/4098/4098_1100878215_large.jpg)

Here is another image with some buildings a light and clounds

AirbORn
11-19-2004, 06:02 PM
I like this composition. It is very simple yet detailed when you look at the city.

Keep up the great progress!

keetmun
11-20-2004, 06:59 AM
Whoa, great improvement from the previous composition I feel! Should look great after all your buildings are complete!

Cheers man
:buttrock:

overcontrast
11-22-2004, 01:55 PM
hey nice going buddy...good compostion... i'll b back for more updates... :thumbsup:

Nomad
11-22-2004, 02:39 PM
Nice buildings and great character progress :thumbsup:

For more ideas for the buildings the skyline of Hong Kong was always verry insipring for me... also you can find a lot of different buildings here: www.skyscrapers.com (http://www.skyscrapers.com)

kaajey
11-23-2004, 04:18 PM
Well this is a very good help especialy for textures.

I started to be worried about the textures and shaders (too much glass,metal)
This will kill my computer.I'll take the risk
Thanx.

young_927
11-24-2004, 04:06 AM
character, backgrond, fits really well all together~
it has a nice cool feeling~

greentek
11-25-2004, 03:27 PM
hi Michal..
very good project mate! good concept idea and composition!
i think your city reminds me greatly Johannes Schlörb's one.. nothing wrong but that's very urban variation of modern cities.. i think you may try to make it more futuristic including large green areas and stuff and not so rectangulary planned..
and i agree with other comments.. the last composition is much more ballanced and expressive..
great work over all mate! :thumbsup:
keep it up and cheers..

terraarc
11-26-2004, 07:09 AM
Hey there! Pretty nice composition the last one is (YODA-ish like :) ) :thumbsup:

Also the character looks awsome, model and pose!!:applause:
I believe that your buildings need some more "love" to make several variations of them scattered around the city, agree with greentek on the urban variation...but have no further suggestions to make on that!

I haven't yet read your story but that's the next thing to do! :)

Keep it up mate!
:wavey:

radu3
11-26-2004, 07:33 AM
really nice environment!

i think you have much more work for lighting...
i want to do some scene like that...look at my signature...

wait for updates

bye

kaajey
11-29-2004, 12:10 PM
hi Michal..
very good project mate! good concept idea and composition!
i think your city reminds me greatlyJohannes Schlörb's one.. nothing wrong but that's very urban variation of modern cities.. i think you may try to make it more futuristic including large green areas and stuff and not so rectangulary planned..
and i agree with other comments.. the last composition is much more ballanced and expressive..
great work over all mate! :thumbsup:
keep it up and cheers..

Yes , you're right. I don't like this kind of city, but it was just a try.
I'm workin' on some smoother buildings and there will be more leafy areas.

And I thought about some canons to destroy falling meteors.I will post some structures later...

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