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Blackarts
10-19-2004, 03:41 AM
Daryl Mandryk has entered the Grand Space Opera 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/grandspaceopera/view_entries.php?challenger=4023)

Latest Update: Final Image: Final Image
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1105860728_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1105860728_large.jpg)

After endless tweaks, I think it's time to lay down the wacom and call it done. Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions along the way. I think I captured more or less what I was going for - energy...emotion...high impact. Hope you all enjoy it!

Cheers,

Daryl

ps; for those who care, this is at 23% original size.

duddlebug
10-19-2004, 07:24 AM
i hope you're not planning to use that fancy-pants wacom cintiq....?

that'd just be unfair... i dread to see how good you're gonna be now...

:)

good luck daryl!! can't wait to see your entry!!

techart
10-19-2004, 07:45 AM
yoooooooo Daryl...nice to see you on this one too...how is the tablet? :))) good luck with the contest,cheers

Squibbit
10-19-2004, 09:05 AM
heh good one, duddles :)

good luck to you , Blackarts , I have a hunch this contest
ain't gonna be as easy to win as the previous one ;)

paulwdavidson
10-19-2004, 11:45 AM
Good luck!

Blackarts
10-19-2004, 04:38 PM
hey guys, haha - actually I'm still waiting on my tablet, I can't wait to check it out.


This is gonna be a tough contest, no doubt about it...there are so many kick as environment artists around here. So far my vague plan is to try and combine some sort of mythic character action peice with some big epic sci-fi stuff in the BG...whatever that means. luckily I have a few months to figure it out...

duddlebug
10-19-2004, 04:58 PM
blimey... you must be absolutely gagging to get hold of that tablet!!!

i'm sure you're gonna come up with another stonking image... don't keep us waiting too long...

Squibbit
10-19-2004, 05:02 PM
better make sure they're sent it , I mean , I was wondering where
my Exposé1 (one of them minor prizes) was , and they told me like
" o didn't you get one ? we'll send it to you right away !" and I got it
in a few days after having to wait for a few weeks :)

flyingP
10-19-2004, 06:07 PM
nice to see you're in Daryl :thumbsup:

sketchfiend
10-21-2004, 05:46 AM
Good to see that youre in here with the rest of us Mr Mandryk, i look forward to seeing what you get up to buddy. Goodluck, and bring on the concepts. Have a beer first though.:beer: :thumbsup:

Lonely Pixel
10-21-2004, 06:54 AM
Hehe, nice to see the award winners cuttle up :D nice 'n cousy :)


Gl to all participants. :D

BloodTaster
10-22-2004, 03:56 AM
Hey man, welcome back! and good luck:)

Blackarts
10-22-2004, 04:16 AM
ncie to see all you guys back as well, good luck to everyone....can't wait to sit down and get started on this.

unitstudio
10-22-2004, 04:56 AM
Look forward to seeing what you produce blackarts. good luck sir! :D

-g

Kryaus
10-22-2004, 06:17 PM
Good luck Daryl. To bad that the tablet hasn't arrived:shrug: but you can still kick @$$ with out it eh

Luter
10-23-2004, 01:28 AM
Good luck to the Winner !

Blackarts
10-25-2004, 05:37 AM
I'm kind of happy with this sketch - i might try and turn this into something. Or not.

http://members.shaw.ca/blackarts/assets/conceptsketch01.jpg

Ichthus
10-25-2004, 08:06 PM
great mood. Who are they fighting there? Robots? Predators? Symbiotic aliens?

duddlebug
10-26-2004, 07:54 AM
Good start Blackarts!! I like the way you block out an image... not as stark an dynamic as your initial black and white sketch on the machineflesh challenge... but there's a real sense of 'battle'... and drama... Is there going to be a bunch of stuff going on in the air...?

Blackarts
10-26-2004, 06:29 PM
Yeah I actually prefer this method of blocking things in as opposed to the black and white, it helps me get a sense of what the final image could be a lot quicker. It's good for establishing some mood and drama right of the bat. I really have no idea of what they are fighting or what's going on in the air, they are just abstract shapes I use to help balance out the image. All that stuff will be decided later. This gives me lots of room to play around, try different things, and start refining this into something cool. I'm not a fan of writing a big back-story to explain the image - I really think the art needs to speak for itself, if you the viewer has to read a long explanation in order to understand the picture, you've already lost them. That said, my basic idea is a group of heroes, surrounded by a horde of aliens or whatever, and some sort of space ship action happening in the sky (perhaps coming to aid them). Nice and simple. The thing i want to do is balance the heroic aspect of the image with some 'epicness'...it's a fine line I think - you want to keep the human drama in the picture, but also provide a sense of scale and wonder.

Blackarts
10-27-2004, 05:33 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1098851603_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1098851603_large.jpg)

concept sketch milestone....I figure I'll hammer away at this until it turns into something cool or I get bored...whichever comes first.

SteelPixel
10-27-2004, 06:22 AM
I'm digging the monochromatic color scheme with the touch of blue in the guns. I know it's only your prelim sketch but consider keeping it with that tonal range, new here so I haven't seen your other stuff but I like what I see so far...

Squibbit
10-27-2004, 07:40 AM
u da man :applause:

Russell_Collins
10-27-2004, 08:09 AM
Looks great so far, Daryl. You've got a real eye for the dramatic. If anything, I'd say that overhanging shape of a ship or whatever it is might be a little too much in the frame. I like the vertical element to it which intersects with the moon/planet in the background, but that large dark mass seems a bit overwhelming to me.

Good luck to you and to all your fans in this thread as well ;)

~Russell

Tranchefeux
10-27-2004, 08:14 AM
Your sketch are very good and I like the colors good luck for
the continuation...

unitstudio
10-27-2004, 08:19 AM
Heaps of Space Opera goodness here! :) Awesome composition, mood and energy without having a story. This piece truly sells itself, which is what any good work of art should do i guess.

Definitely looks like some kind of valiant and heroic last stand....great stuff Daryl.

-g

sketchfiend
10-27-2004, 08:55 AM
absolutely awesome, with what little detail there is this image speaks in volumes, an excellent composition i cant wait to see the final thing. It has a great feeling of action and movement youve really managed to capture a great freeze frame of some epic sequence, definately part of what this comp seems to be about. Keep it up.:thumbsup:

andreasrocha
10-27-2004, 09:27 AM
Beautiful...Looking for something to criticize, but I can't find anything. The only thing, perhaps (but since this is a concept, it's too early to be mentioning this), are the expressions of the man and the woman. His pose asks for a really big scream, I guess...and she looks too passive, somehow. Perhaps her left arm could be outstretched, waving off that group of "bad guys", in despair...Just hints.

duddlebug
10-27-2004, 09:57 AM
Really fantastic!!

This could be even better than the last one!!

Um... the one...that...erm...won... bugger....

:)

Fantastic works, as usual, Daryl...

Fahrija
10-27-2004, 10:07 AM
This is the most remarkable start I´ve seen so far. It looks epic - the perspective angle mediates tremendous dramatic action - The compostion is great and has a convincing arrangement between the different objects.

techart
10-27-2004, 12:40 PM
I'm looking at these concepts and I'm saying to myself is gonna be ..again..one outstanding piece.......love the idea..cheers tech

angel
10-27-2004, 02:12 PM
very dynamic composition. The pose of the characters remind me of the SW EIV movie poster which isn't a bad thing.

Hillartsympho
10-27-2004, 02:22 PM
grr admins please delete this, accidental double post.

Hillartsympho
10-27-2004, 02:24 PM
Hey Blackarts, thanks so much for taking a look at what I've got down so far. you're suggestions were really helpful. maybe someday I'll be a winner too... in life :D hehe

hmm trying to find something for you to work on... how about the closest areas of the foreground? whats going to be there? How close will it be? and the "flag pole" sort of form on the right side with an orange form under it is still confusing at this stage... is that a part of the ship above or the forground? its its the front of the ship you may want to play with the anges to make them line up better and at least at this point the hue is to different to read as part of the rest of the ship. if its a specific object on the ground, it of course needs more definition so it can read as an object rather than just mark.

your compositional strategy is similar in some aspects to Frazetta's paintings; as the hero and heroing are central on a mass/ hill in dynamic posture; the moon present in the back... but the handling of the sci fi theme is contemporary and unique to you.

Magnificent. Fantastic, and you just got started!!

Peddy
10-27-2004, 02:37 PM
i was wondering where the previous winner went to! good start you are off to. im still struggling to get that level of implied form in digital concept work. and how so! a concept on a more personal level works very well, and yours already has impact.

ZuraK
10-27-2004, 02:37 PM
The composition is so good its scary, i must say i really love it already. Something just tore down the recemblence of my image in my brain :D. Btw, i think i can see something similar with the last winning piece, uhm, the guns and colour buildup? But since i belive its in a early stage anything can change. Its going to be fun to watch this thread.

(Z)

vincentvv
10-27-2004, 03:57 PM
keeping up the good style from last challenge...all that energi...love it!!

Kryaus
10-27-2004, 04:33 PM
I have to echo the Frazetta comparison. This is a fantastic start. It is jsut what I need to kick start myself & see what this challeges is about.

adrianis
10-27-2004, 05:30 PM
Great sketch! remind me The Raft of the Medusa (Géricault).

I'll keep an eye on your work :D

Blackarts
10-27-2004, 06:38 PM
wow thanks guys, I'm glad you are diggin this even in the embyronic stage it's in at the present.

andreasrocha; the poses are basically placeholder and will likely be changed. I shoudlnt have really even done anything on the faces this early, but I couldnt help myself - again they'll be changed. I would like to have the woman looking up into the sky at something (?)....still have to figure this out.

russelcollins; you are right man, the ship will have to be pushed back a bit.

duddlebug; thanks duddle...I dunno if it will be better - just different. btw your cartooning skills are awesome....I am green with envy.

Hillartsympho; that flag looking thing will probably be a tattered flag with fire behind it...or not. but that's sort of what's in my head. As for the foreground, probably alien corpses.....still need to figure it out. Frazetta uses strong focal points in his compositions which is what I try and do as well....I want to get the viewers eye to focus on a specific area, then move around and check other stuff out.

Peddy; thanks, I appreciate your comments.

ZuraK; I do a have a thing for big blue laser beam guns...I admit it.

thanks all....more to come sometime soon....

ChrisThatGuy
10-27-2004, 08:18 PM
Great composition. I'll certainly be watching this thread.

My only suggestion would be maybe it could use some silhouettes of the enemies rising up in front of the mound on which the heros are standing.

NinjaA55N
10-28-2004, 12:23 AM
Hehehe.. a new masterpiece is coming to be realised :D

Steen
10-29-2004, 08:41 PM
I was going to say it reminded me of Frazetta, but then I noticed the other posts. Anyway. It reminds me of a Frazetta painting. :-)

PetriJ
10-29-2004, 10:13 PM
Nice one. Good luck man.

V_Shane
10-30-2004, 07:20 AM
I think it would be cool if the girl were severly kicking an alien in the head with a stilletto boot and blasting another. Very moving image nice composition!

eupee
10-30-2004, 09:49 AM
nice one, for some reason im real keen on seeing the main guys hair, not sure why, itl add some sort of movement

Blackarts
10-31-2004, 06:58 AM
just working up to my next milestone - had some time today to refine it a bit. Slowly starting to come together.

http://members.shaw.ca/blackarts/assets/linework.jpg

Peddy
10-31-2004, 07:55 AM
damn you. :buttrock:

NinjaA55N
10-31-2004, 07:59 AM
I have nothing to add... continue doing what u do best! :)

techart
10-31-2004, 08:03 AM
nice compositon dude...nice...love the cromatik alot....love how you arange the characters in the image.......and the huge planet behind...cheers tech

Squibbit
10-31-2004, 08:21 AM
hey where's the spiny monster ? it looked cool , no room for it ?

jeroentje
10-31-2004, 10:55 AM
And again, I will not win the cgtalk challenge... LOL :D
Good luck, it's awsome.

Tommy Lee
10-31-2004, 11:10 AM
And again, I will not win the cgtalk challenge... LOL :D
Good luck, it's awsome.
Yepp... The challenge is over! Hehe!
Awesome concept but didn't expect less from you...:thumbsup:

Cheerz and Good Luck

Tom

Tommy Lee
10-31-2004, 11:13 AM
Sorry... Doublepost!:blush:

Hillartsympho
10-31-2004, 01:53 PM
good progress on it, mabe its time to think more about what the aliens will look like/ what colors they are, etc
yummy eye candy! :thumbsup:

oldhobo
10-31-2004, 02:55 PM
Standout entry. Love the loose brushwork, a pleasure to see such expressive handling.

Blackarts
10-31-2004, 05:11 PM
Peddy,NinjaASSN,techart; thanks guys, it's starting to get there, but I still see several problem areas I need to address.

Squibbit; oh ya - Spiny dude....I felt that side of the image was feeling a bit crowded so I removed him and pushed the flag farther up...but I woudl like to include an aien fellow in there little soon to be dead troop....just have to figure out where to put him.

jeroentje; Tommy Lee; ha ha - thanks - but with so much time left and so many artists out there I expect someone will step up and bitchslap me. I'll just keep going along along and see what happens.

Hillartsympho; abolutely right...I'm still solving some composition issues - soon!

oldhobo; thanks, I like to keep things extremely loose at the beginning of any painting.

Olve
10-31-2004, 09:37 PM
Yey! That's opera!
Love the retro feel to it. Almost a bit Russian propaganda-esque.
Looking forward to the next submission!

bakbek
11-01-2004, 09:06 PM
Looks like a book cover to me !!!

Love the scene, keep it up, can’t wait to see some progress

Ronen

Slav
11-01-2004, 09:46 PM
i like your starting image. heavy on the eyes though.

Blackarts
11-01-2004, 09:58 PM
Olve; yeah you get it - I love those old propaganda posters...this will have a simliar feel, but not as graphic. I'll post my next milestone update shortly - probably tonight or tommorrow.

bakbek; thanks.. that's also what I had in mind...sort of more like an old painted sci-fi movie poster before they started using photos for everything and making everything look boring and the same.

Slav; thanks, I think I know what mean, but these are just rough shapes and colors, everyhting will pretty much change. I do like to use color though, and I'm not afraid to be bold with it.

dougbot
11-02-2004, 12:40 AM
Wow, very cool. I like the feel of that huge ship rolling in from the left. Has a massive battle feel to it. Excellent work.

Merlin
11-02-2004, 01:06 AM
man, I love this, lots of energy/motion. Can't wait to see more,

neal

Blackarts
11-03-2004, 05:19 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1099459189_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1099459189_large.jpg)

I don't really do traditonal lineart, but this represents the next step in my process. The basics are about 80% there. With so much time left I'll probably take my time and really make sure I'm happy with everything before I start detailing.

Blackarts
11-03-2004, 05:22 AM
minor update; I like it better flipped...like so:

http://members.shaw.ca/blackarts/assets/lineart_milestone.jpg

Squibbit
11-03-2004, 06:53 AM
Bravo! I gotta say it looks equally good either way.
That fallen dude still firing is good stuff , I though about
putting something like that in my pic too
(well one of the concepts anyways,heh)

sidchagan
11-03-2004, 06:58 AM
Very nice layout and detailing, looks like a really grand piece :).
Personally, I think the original looks better than the flipped one, but its just me- not any difference, obviously.

KOryH
11-03-2004, 07:35 AM
HEY,
great start. I am sure this will be fantastic. Your work has always impressed me.
I am glad I get to watch your progress.

Good Luck

Nomad
11-03-2004, 08:00 AM
Fantastic line art :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

If I can suggest one thing: I think the "camera" is too close to the main heroes, more space/battle/environment willl add some "grand space opera" dimension :D

Cgkoko
11-03-2004, 09:06 AM
Very nice Mr Blackarts! I have nothing really to crit on. I'm just waiting the sharpening of things like the fallen guy shooting. Looking your thread makes me wana be part of this challenge too...:)

STARBUCK
11-03-2004, 10:03 AM
Hi,
very nice work dude!
But i still prefer your first sketch : the scales and the colors were more subtils (like classicals or "renaissance" paintings colors sets).
I think you have added too much contrast too (the foreground and the background are too similars).
But it is a great picture indeed!
Good luck for the contest!

duddlebug
11-03-2004, 10:41 AM
fantastic work... beautiful technique... Love the layout... but...

My only crit is that the image could maybe be 'taller'... the figures look a bit too central. There was more space above the figures in earlier sketches. I like the feeling of claustrophobia that the ship gives, but you could still get that with more space in the top of the composition..?

i love it though!!

(edited because i pressed 'post' by accident!!)

teknotek83
11-03-2004, 11:11 AM
i'm really loving the colors. i wish you had the moon that you used on the first color doodle. that was rad. keep it up, man!

Blackarts
11-03-2004, 04:02 PM
Thanks guys, there is still lots bugging me, and I think you pretty much nailed most of it.

cheers guys.

giza-di
11-03-2004, 05:26 PM
the central figure is just as epic as it gets, it's truly dynamic!!!:bounce: ,but the composition is something that is tooo classic(not necessarily bad, but really reminds me the general layout of starwars posters)

TonyMesiatowsky
11-03-2004, 07:43 PM
Looking good.I look forward seeing those aliens fleshed out.

screamingwing
11-03-2004, 08:07 PM
Great looking colours and composition man.

MoonVisionStudio
11-03-2004, 09:19 PM
I dont think it looks too classical, I think it looks iconic! If anything, I would move the central characters up a bit, so that it feels more like they are on a pedestal! This painting is going to ROCK!

Artie
11-03-2004, 10:31 PM
Really great! It will be masterpiece, as usual ;)

element5
11-04-2004, 04:55 AM
How did I miss this one, Blackarts you are right up there in my list of inspirational artists....:)

paulwdavidson
11-04-2004, 06:25 PM
Great development.......it's interesting watching you pulling and pushing the form around..................very confident work.


Nice stuff.


Paul

Blackarts
11-05-2004, 08:02 AM
element5; thanks man, very flattering!

Jose Pardo; yeah as many people have pointed out this is can be a deceptively hard compostion...you want to keep the figures big enough to read well and focus on, but not lose the 'epic' part of the image. hmmm.

anwyays, this is about an hour of tinkering with things. I decided my ship designs sucked and needed somethnig bolder and little more interesting. Changed other little things as welll...added the ring around the planet etc. almost getting to a place where i think i can uprez and start tighteining..but not quite.

http://members.shaw.ca/blackarts/assets/lineart_update.jpg
cheers guys

paulwdavidson
11-05-2004, 09:55 AM
Hi Blackarts,


just having a little look at your progression and wanted to point out something regarding your composition and what it's doing to my eye. I know the problem with people commenting on your work at the early stages without knowing what your plans are in your head.........so wer'e picking on stuff in the dark.

Before, the flag helped to contain the comp in a classic pyramid (I don't know if you have permanently removed this from your concept?) now it seems the characters are throwing you out towards the left of the page. Can I suggest using the female character to create a shape that moves you down and around by having her gun help you navigate. Using her as a tool like you used the flag originally.....creating that pyramid you used in your earlier comp.

Or you could have an attacker almost on top of her helping with the movement in that area?

Just a thought from my perspective. As you know, there's no rules, and it's a subjective point of view.

You know what your doing........but sometimes it helps to get a fresh view :)

Excellent work

Paul

olive2d
11-05-2004, 03:16 PM
Yeah! really nice composition and colors...:)

Blackarts
11-05-2004, 04:28 PM
hey thanks Paul, your comments are always welcome. I was thinking something similar, I wanted to put the flag back in, it's just a matter of coming up with something that works...gotta make sure things don't get tooooo crowded...it's such a balancing act. But that's what makes it fun. ;) I was also thinking of adding some color or something to the planet rings just to enforce that curve a little to help keep the eye in the picture.

great suggestions, thanks!

Squibbit
11-05-2004, 07:39 PM
hmm... u starting to be pretty close to winning again :P

PS. do try the flag again , or something... almost looks like there's something
missing from the middle... the flag does add feeling to the pic ... in the "last
man and babe standing" sorta way

MoonVisionStudio
11-05-2004, 08:43 PM
Love the new ship, and putting rings on the planet is very Iconic and will certainly help. I do prefer the characters flopped though. This is just my very own, very small opinion, but since I come into an image from the left, I would rather see the main characters "heroic" chest, than his gun blazing, and let the gun direct me from there. Just my two cents.

Blackarts
11-05-2004, 08:48 PM
totally Jose - I think I just happened to save it at a flipped stage - but yeah it will be reversed as it reads better.

squib; trying to figure out how to get that flag in there.....gonna have to play with it a bit. It may not survive though.. =)

Squibbit
11-05-2004, 08:52 PM
lol , i was wondering how it would fit there , too

Tommy Lee
11-05-2004, 10:44 PM
Heyheyhey... slow down mate!:D

awesome... no crits!

About hte flag: I would say give it an extreme angle so it wont disturb the background. The wind will let it go behind the heros head anyway.
So... I see no problem compositionwise.

Cheerz

Tom

Blackarts
11-07-2004, 02:13 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1099793593_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1099793593_large.jpg)

I think I got most of the basics down, now it's time to move on. Unfortuntaly this will be my last update for a bit, I have another project that needs some attention. I'll get back to this ASAP. In the meantime, all comments are welcome!

annisahmad
11-07-2004, 02:16 AM
wow daryl. just wow. watching ur progress is just amazing. i'm really inspired and u've really changed my view of wat i thought of this contest. i came here to maybe give u advice, but instead, u've given me inspiration and new light to paint in :). keep up the awesome work!

by the way, one bit of input;
i think i like ur 2nd to last submission better. the colors r more vibrant with the strong pinks. it just speaks to me :D

teknotek83
11-07-2004, 02:38 AM
awesome job with the planet's rings! i can't wait to see the final ship design. it's an awesome shape!! :scream:

MoonVisionStudio
11-07-2004, 03:02 AM
I can not say how happy I am that I found this site, and this challenge in particular. To be able to watch your progress through a project like this is priceless. I look forward to your return.

adel3d
11-07-2004, 05:30 AM
Excellent work!
good luck!:thumbsup:

igino
11-07-2004, 07:49 AM
oh my ... the development here is stunning! It makes me want to give up ... This is definitely the most dynamic piece in this challenge. The change in direction of the frontal man's arm changed a lot. Awesome ... *joins the Daryl Fan Community*

Neozoom
11-07-2004, 09:30 AM
hey excellent and dynamic work daryl as usual ;)

I've seen at the first page that some guys hadn't STILL (after months!!!) get their prizes? oO
WTF? you haven't your cintiq now?

anyway...
i would ask you... do you work with peinter? i can see your brushes blend in your pieces :)
nice tool ya. ;)

keep up great work

Bakter
11-07-2004, 10:11 AM
It’s sooooo epic that I must ask have You any relation to Epic Games:)
I really like this image a very heroic one. Keep going and good luck to ya!

Speaky
11-07-2004, 10:18 AM
Blackarts, it's fantastic. It's a classic, simple as that. You have a very keen eye for colour and composition, and the characters are very convincing. You have this painterly style which reminds me of Frazetta. The only thing I would say is that everything focusses on the characters and the immediate events happening around them. Reading the challenge FAQ I read moderator's comments that the GSO challenge is more about the epic setting with individual characters being a secondary concern, different from the MF challenge where the characters were the focus with the setting being more of a secondary concern. Just something to consider, really. You've got that awesome planet and huge starship hanging in the sky, perhaps you need to find a way of sharing the focus of the pic between the foreground and background. I love it though!

ecura
11-07-2004, 10:55 AM
Looks great! the colours you used really brings the tension and atmosphere to life. Can't wait to see the final master piece.

MrD
11-07-2004, 12:28 PM
love it has a great " last stand" quality to it.
no crits at this stage whatsoever

andreasrocha
11-07-2004, 05:32 PM
Good work, Blackarts.

However, I would like to suggest a couple of things.

1. I agree with Speaky...perhaps you are giving too much attention to the characters...don't get me wrong, they are looking great, but somehow you could integrate them a bit more into the surrounding environment. Perhaps I get this idea because there is still a lot of detail work to go, so, perhaps I could be wrong.

2. I think the background is looking a bit "heavy". The planet and the spaceship look like they are crammed into the picture frame. Perhaps a stronger aerial perspective, would give more depth to the setting.

3. The guy's head looks a bit dislocated, like it is too much to the back. Perhaps I get this impression because of the armor and its "inverted collar".

Other than that it looks great. These are just suggestions to improve your already beautiful artwork. And since there is still a lot of detailing to go...I could be completely wrong.

(The guy laying on the ground looks fantastic!)

Blackarts
11-07-2004, 06:34 PM
thanks for the comments everyone, I appreciate all the feedback and crits.

annisahmad; very kind words - thanks. As for colors I tweak those constantly right up until the end, using color to push and pull things into the BG and direct the viewers eye. So who knows, the pinks you like could make a return.

teknotek83; thanks! It will be something organic....menacing...and massive. other than that I'm not sure myself what it'll look like. Often I just have a certain feeling I want to capture, and the design of an object will evolve based on that.

adel3d; thanks mate.

Neozoom;Yes it's my trusty Painter 7. hah - yes I am still waiting for my wacom Cintiq. Apparently supplies of these things are extremely scarce according to wacom. I have a feeling they'd be less scarce if I was a large corporate client and not some random contest winner ;)....but c'est live. I can't wait to start using it though, those things look amazing.

igino; naw man don't give up, remember you are here to learn and there's no better way to participate fully and get everything you can out of this. =) re: dynamicism I try hard to put some excitment in every peice of art I do. The guys arm was one example of it not being dynamic as it could be.... as spinal tap says....turn it up to 11!

Bakter; heh - thanks, no - no formal relationship with epic, other than I lused to play a hell of a lot of unreal tournament.

Speaky; thanks a lot speaky, you make some good points, points that I've given a lot o thought to as well.

As I've said before I am really trying to balance out the epic with the intimate. I believe if you look at at any good space opera (trek, star wars, dune, whatever) they all have big ships and a grand sense of scale, and are also all driven primarily by characters. Characters shape the epic events that drive the creation and destruction of their universes. In this universe, a thousand years from now when they tell the tale of the last stand, they won't just sit back and say - " and then some really big ships came and the perspective made it all seem rather large, and oh yeah some people fought some aliens", rather they would relate a tale of courage and emotion, set against a backdrop of galactic scale action. If all you have are some big ships flying around, it doesn't tell a story well and you really don't have much at all IMO.

I read through the FAQ, and I totallly understand the admins want to push the artists toward grandeur and epicness. This is totally fine, and I agree with it. As Leo points out with Ralph Macquariries star wars art, characters moments are still captured. Leia and Chewy race through the corriders of cloud city to rescue Luke! Without the characters you have a beautiful peice of concept art of cloud city....with the characters you have a story and emotional drive, and it makes it that much more epic and involving. It what's makes you remember a peice of art....it draws you in and gets you interested.

Now all that being said, the BG in my peice is going to worked on to detail parts out and really make sure they exist in an 'epic' environment. The last thing I would want is for a judge or a voter to say "great looking epic characters, but there needs to be more to it". So I am aware that capturing the grandeur plays a big part here.

Gotta turn it up to 11. =)

ecura;MrD; cheers!

andreasrocha; 1- see my above reply to speaky. And I agree with you btw. 2-too late to change perspective, I am happy with the perspective point I chose, but I agree the BG needs to balanced better. I have to figure out something. good eyes. 3- I think this will become more apparent as I tweak the figure, but he is supposed to be leaning back a bit, with a slight bit of fore-shortening going on. It is a bit mussed up right now. thanks for your feedback!

Zpexxo
11-07-2004, 08:45 PM
Well what can be said i think it is one fantastic picture you're about to do!!
Anyway i think i liked it best when it was flipped dont know why really .

But what i really like about it are your choice of color
they really work together great.

Just keep it up i will surely keep looking how the final will turn out!!!
/R

PLATE
11-08-2004, 02:44 AM
Concept just hits the bulls eye, but I'm a little worried about it's similarity with Star Wars classic posters. It is my first impression but i know theres a long way to go. Hope this helps you in the evolution of your wip. :thumbsup:

Russell_Collins
11-08-2004, 06:53 AM
I haven't read all of the comments in this very worthy thread, but I did want to point it out that the female with the gun seems severely underequipped compared to the guy with all the apparent body armor on. I'd suggest either giving them uniform themes to suggest some sort of federated affiliation (why else would they be fighting side-by-side?) or putting her in some armor that is technologically similar to his so that at least they have a little more apparent unity.

I love the planet background and the ways you've changed the ship. I wonder if there's any way to bring the struggle up in scale so that the "final stand" you see with the main characters in the foreground is emblematic of a larger stand being taken in space (which would enhance the scale of the theme a bit, I think).

Keep up the good work (but not too good, I mean, I want a chance at winning too :P)

V_Shane
11-08-2004, 07:31 AM
As I've said before I am really trying to balance out the epic with the intimate. I believe if you look at at any good space opera (trek, star wars, dune, whatever) they all have big ships and a grand sense of scale, and are also all driven primarily by characters. Characters shape the epic events that drive the creation and destruction of their universes. In this universe, a thousand years from now when they tell the tale of the last stand, they won't just sit back and say - " and then some really big ships came and the perspective made it all seem rather large, and oh yeah some people fought some aliens", rather they would relate a tale of courage and emotion, set against a backdrop of galactic scale action. If all you have are some big ships flying around, it doesn't tell a story well and you really don't have much at all IMO.


:thumbsup: Man this is said so well! These are my views as well to a "T" , this is looking really great, the colors/lighting good emotion push, very classic. I hope to capture the same feel in mine (my hero is a female and some aliens though). "Just make 10 louder.... But this one goes to 11"

paulwdavidson
11-08-2004, 09:59 AM
Well said Blackarts........I agree with you 100% regarding your point about the importance of the characters.


There's been a couple of people make comparisons with Star Wars posters........I don't agree with that at all! Someone will always try to find similarity with something that's been done before.........You could find a compositional comparison to previous art with anyone that produces art now and in the future. It's how you reinvent the elements contained within a recognised and well used formula. We all have to do it. Frazetta did it........he have to learn from what's been done before you.........Frazetta made it his own by his original content he injected. That is what I see you doing.

Thanks for your comments on my piece........

Paul

NinjaA55N
11-08-2004, 10:44 AM
So u r planning to win again right? ;) Great! Still cant criticize a thing, I really like ur technique and somekind of traditional style of working, so just go on with it. I'll rty to learn more from u!

JasonChan
11-08-2004, 02:05 PM
Hey good to see your back and with a vengence! Well, I guess not vangence... Back and better than ever! Anyway, powerfull words from a powerful artist. I completely agree. There are a lot of great entries this time around with awesome spaceships and futuristic city scapes, but they don't have the human quality that only characters can bring.

As far as your piece goes... Why do you have to make it so hard for the rest of us?! Just kidding :p But seriously, it's awesome. I had toyed with the idea of doing a last stand image and I'm so glad I didn't go with that idea because frankly, the composition sucked and it would have died next to yours.

Not much to critique on so far. It looks amazing. The only thing that I see is that the darkness in the ring around the planet/moon is making a weird tangent with the barrel of the woman's riffle. Very minor. I don't know, had to say something constructive :p

Can't wait to see how this comes out.

Blackarts
11-08-2004, 05:33 PM
Russell_Collins; Your spot on with yout comments, thanks. the girl is just a rough block in, she'll be fully decked out in some kind gear eventually. I'm hoping to add some more activity going on in the atmosphere like you suggested - just have to figure out what I want.

V_Shane; cheers mate - I'll have to take a look at your thread.

Paul Davidson; thanks Paul. That's pretty much how I look at it. Everyone is a product of their influences. Even star wars was a mish-mash of a ton of genres and artists. I dunno, this is one of those subjects you could dedicate an entire thread to debate it.

NinjaASSN; hah - with all the talent around here I would never assume to win anything - like last time I'm just trying to produce an image that'll kick some ass....and if they vote for it - great - if not, I have a nice portfoilio peice.

Evil Gerbil; thanks for the feedback dude and the constructive crit. I can't wait to see how this turn out either, it's been fun getting to this point. I can't wait to dedicate some more time to this.

techart
11-08-2004, 06:51 PM
nice work as usual man...your work is startin' to get shape...nice colors and comp...like the characters..cool.....your old style I see.cheers..tech

Riddick
11-09-2004, 03:02 PM
Powerful picture and great works!!
Good luck Daryl!

Pentagramma
11-10-2004, 05:55 AM
Beautiful work! It´s very epic, and the colors are gorgeous.

It´s like the cover of a book I would buy... :thumbsup:

bolchover
11-10-2004, 02:19 PM
looks very exciting so far! got a good action scene going on with a very epic looking backdrop. No substantive comments at this time :thumbsup:

NOOB!
11-10-2004, 11:18 PM
yo! been checking out ur stuff,but i wasn't aware u won the last contest lol.my bad.

Also been reading the comments,i'm a type a guy thats used to focusin on characters too and not the setting as much.but i guess the setting wouldn't exist without the characters so its kind of the same thing.

u seem to always *center* ur characters,don't do that. heh

OKMER
11-11-2004, 02:36 AM
Yap well,hum not so much to say more as the others.
Broken english,sorry..
Let's say something original,uh ...like uh...amazing,looking forward to ....

No,seriously,even if indeed the pose is quit classic,you did reinvent it and that's quit original after all
(sorry it's late down here in Belgium):D
So really great start,amazing pic!!! and like schwarzy said "I'll be back":D

My grint spacepra:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=184953

walrus
11-12-2004, 11:27 PM
Hey, Blackarts, just wanted to chime in and say I really like how your piece is coming along so far. I especially agree with what you said about the importance of the characters. It's all about the humans (or other sentients!) you relate to, not necessarily the ships that they're flying around in. You mentioned McQuarrie, and he's an excellent example because Star Wars succeeds at taking the human characters and actually resting the fate of the galaxy squarely on their shoulders... And what can be more epic than that? Anyhow nice work, and best of luck again!

-mike

Tommy Lee
11-13-2004, 10:05 AM
There's been a couple of people make comparisons with Star Wars posters........I don't agree with that at all! Someone will always try to find similarity with something that's been done before.........You could find a compositional comparison to previous art with anyone that produces art now and in the future. It's how you reinvent the elements contained within a recognised and well used formula. We all have to do it. Frazetta did it........he have to learn from what's been done before you.........Frazetta made it his own by his original content he injected. That is what I see you doing.



This is the same thing I wanted to say. Keep it going. Everything is been made allready, now its all about personality and creativity.
Keep it going.... Cheerz:thumbsup:

Blackarts
11-13-2004, 06:12 PM
techart; Riddick; bolchover;OKMER;thanks a lot guys - I hope you'll enjoy the final product.

Pentagramma; thanks, I actually want to get into doing more cover work...not enough hours in the day I tell you..

NOOB!; not sure you what you are refering to, I do use a central compostion here, but your eye is still free to move around.

walrus; yeah, my sentiments exactly, thanks for your words of encouragment.

Tommy Lee; interesting - has everything been done before? Or are we just starting to figure out what can be done? With new technology comes new opportunities, maybe everything that came before is a foundation for all the new and exciting art to come? I agree with you though - personality and creativity play a major part. thanks!

Blackarts
11-13-2004, 06:15 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1100369718_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1100369718_large.jpg)

I had a little bit of free time to work on space opera stuff. Just starting to tighten things a bit. I like the big alien ship, but I don't love it. I might have to change that. Luckily it's still loose enough I can esaily go in and block in something different. Anyways, this is my latest WIP, and my first coloring WIP milestone update.

NOOB!
11-13-2004, 06:16 PM
holy moly....jelousy..the gun in the guys right hand seems a tad off perspective though.

SideAche
11-13-2004, 06:20 PM
It's looking great Daryl. Loved your machine flesh work also.

sidchagan
11-13-2004, 10:33 PM
Things are really starting to tighten up now- lots of great details and its looking sharp.

NinjaA55N
11-13-2004, 10:54 PM
My opinion is that it would be good that u leave the ship, but change it. Right now its more than a "boat" than a ship if u know what i mean. its not enough grand. Maybe a different design of it and a longer one to the horisont. So the feeling of seeing it would be like.. there r never gonna stop coming! Just my thoughts...

Russell_Collins
11-13-2004, 10:56 PM
It is coming along very nicely. I like the balance and scale you've got going on.

I know what you mean about not "loving" the alien ship and I think what you should be doing is building loathing for it. Not in the sense that it craps up your image, but in the sense that such a dark and foreboding shape should be engaging in the battle somehow. I think it might be cool to show it either blasting the surface in the background or dropping pods with more alien warriors in them to join the fight. A presence that imposing compositionally should exercise more impostion thematically. I say that like I could do a good job with it, right :rolleyes:

Another thing, are you going the G.I. Joe route and having the good guys shoot beams of one color and the bad guys shooting beams of another color? If so, that could help bring that giant space ship more into the confilct by having pockets of resistance firing upon it in futility as the are overwhelmed in the background... ...just a thought.

stefgrafx
11-13-2004, 11:06 PM
I like the dinamism of the image and composition, perhaps you could put a lightning effect in the backround of the spaceship, and give it a sensation of hight-speed...

annisahmad
11-13-2004, 11:38 PM
Beautiful. Just beautiful daryl. U've got the most important thing right down on paper; mood and color. i love it. great work!

balistic
11-14-2004, 01:42 AM
Hmm, I worry that the forms might be flattening out a bit on the female character . . . I think her lighting may be a bit too even, and not dramatic enough. Her face doesn't seem as strong as the rest of the piece.

Very cool overall, though. Been watching with interest for a while.

ecura
11-14-2004, 01:59 AM
I had a thought to one of the enemy character on the left could do something to show a little bit more of the dramatic action and movement like jumping or leaping (if the theory behind the story allows them to) onto the guy lying down. At the moment the enemies seem to be just standing there waiting to get shot at. Nevertheless its looking fantastic!

teknotek83
11-14-2004, 03:01 AM
that's really coming along beautifully! minor minor crit (and something i'm sure you would've fixed eventually..) the gun on the guy's ring hand is slightly out of perspective. hah. sorry, i just wanted to say something aside from the usual "awesome" and "great job"!

JTD
11-15-2004, 05:28 AM
And I wanted to say "great job" and "awesome" but now I feel kinda silly. Well...here's some words to describe your piece that no one has used before...until now:

confounding!
illustrious!
tumultuous!

I disagree with a couple of folks saying that the right hand gun is out of perspective. If the weapons were parallel it would look fake. In fact, if a person looks left they tend to drop the right hand and visa versa. I'd say this looks so real it's...confounding, illustr-oh you get the point.

Blackarts: you, sir, are a master of composition and light.

techart
11-15-2004, 05:39 PM
God that's awesome work dude......love everything...keep on doin'it...awesome colors and comp mate cheers teh

Tranchefeux
11-15-2004, 06:20 PM
Hi, I like much your work, because I am an enormous fan of
Frazetta his succession is new policy-holder, but numerically, you
must know Bisley which east is spiritual sons, I think nevertheless
that you should draw aside so much a little, to avoid too much the
similarity, but you with comparable good the style, cheer with you
good progression.

uwil
11-15-2004, 07:46 PM
wish i could do 2d that good...nice poses, colors... well, the whole composition is fantastic..... everything. not a final image but very worthy of praise . the final would be more complex... i guess. good luck...:thumbsup: .

Blackarts
11-15-2004, 07:49 PM
Thanks guys!

balistic; thanks man, and yup, anything that looks rough or flat is just a basic block in and will all sclupted out later. This includes fixing the forms in a lot places (the guns etc). The only place I spent a few minutes tightening was the dude's face and upper armor. The chick represents literally 10 mins of painting, so yeah - lots of polishing left to do.

NinjaASSN; I'm pretty happy with the overall feel of the ship, but it's defintalty going to be changed a bit, mostly style-wise.

ecura; yeah I think I'll add an alien getting blasted or somehting along those lines.

Russell_Collins; thanks, yeah the big ship will be zapping things on the surface, but that goes in much later after the BG is painted. It's too hard to paint around laser beams. =)

Tranchefeux; Whoa hard to understand, but I think I got your gist. Yeah I do have a simliar style to those two painting giants, I think I do enough to set me apart though, and I have a lot of other influences that come into play as well, so hopefully the results will always feel fresh. thanks!

vapourtrail
11-16-2004, 01:11 AM
Daryl,

Below is the first post for your new CG challenge entry.

"Thought I'd throw my hat in again....sounds like a fun topic! A little broad perhaps, but I think that will just generate a huge variety of crazy-ass images."

After seeing this, we were slightly disillusioned.

Look, we've all become well accustomed with your last entry which won the machineflesh challenge! The classic and proven fantasy elements were applied to great effect and with great anitciaption we sat and waited for your entry to this challenge.

Clearly, we accept that this is a very early stage in your image development, and it's fair to say that the expert techniques applied in the previous challenge have made a memorable comeback. With reference to your winning piece, however, we couldn't help but notice, well...

You know the monster in your machineflesh entry?
Imagine you are the monster.
Could it be argued that your latest entry has great resemblance to the scene that monster would possibly be seeing. I mean, take for example, the rock on which your hero is standing.
'Nostalgic' is the only word which springs to mind. Then there is the pose, nostalgic still...
Then the character
The weapons
Composition
Theme
Scale
Hair
Lava
Colours
Protagonist design

Of course we have no problem with consistency and style, but the extent to which you have replicated the formula with your winning entry leaves a lot to be desired concerning your creative ingenuity. Its the same scene, different viewpoint. isn't it? and where is the epic quality this challenge requires?

Just for reference, the old and the new.

http://tomprobert.symonds.net/compared.jpg

Below is a quote you raised regarding the storyline for the piece.

"I'm not a fan of writing a big back-story to explain the image - I really think the art needs to speak for itself"

The whole point of making a back story is to strengthen the quality of the image and the story it tells. For example, if you've thought about the history, function, age, personality, social standing, mentality etc of a character, all this not only helps design a better character, it also makes him more credible to the viewer. Regardless of the knowledge of your storyline. We're not saying write a detailed essay, but just considering these details before plunging into the image will in the long run make for a stronger image.

We would love to see how you respond to what would appear to be an overly critical post.


Faithfully,

People in disarray

Artie
11-16-2004, 07:50 AM
vapourtrail: You are talking about nonsense, no offense. Every artist have his personal style and imagination, colors, composition techniques, poses of characters, weapons, clothes, etc. I don't see nothing bad on it, it is common thing. Most effective way, how to make great picture with minimum time and work, I think.

And this picture will be great, in my opinion ;)

Russell_Collins
11-16-2004, 08:54 AM
vapourtrail - I understand where you're coming from because there are common elements to the two images you posted such as the rocks (with yellowish glow coming through) and the spikes on the bad guys. Yes the protagonists have long dark hair that is wildly blowing in the wind. Yes, as he also said, he likes blue laser guns. Yes, a dark figure or region increases drama in a scene so it is good to involve it in the composition.

But these do not constitute recycling any more than motion and contrast constitute recycling from one picture to the next. What they do constitute are aspects of good design. For example, spacecraft seem to be consistently designed out of metals or other such structural materials in everybody's posts, as opposed to paper products because of certain cliches which we all seem to tolerate just fine. I'm sure there is some ingenious way to make one out of paper but I don't want to get pedantic with this point so I'll move on.

Would you fault Jon Foster for his consistency? I doubt it. But what makes his work unique from other artists is what makes his work so similar from piece to piece.

I agree that it is important for an artist to experiment and try new things but I don't think that experiments are the holy grail. I'm a much bigger fan of craftsmanship.

I understand that you're interested in seeing "creative ingenuity" and "epic quality"; so am I. But I'd say it is pretty unanimous so far that other people already see it.

emrahelmasli
11-16-2004, 10:04 AM
You're going really well my brother. The colors and pose is awesome. These heros allways find a rock to stand on :) Nice job. Keep it updated....:buttrock:

element5
11-16-2004, 10:15 AM
common link, common style....I love it..... I cant see any problem. Listen to what we say, Take on what is relivant and do what your heart tells you. Love your work and its great that the story continues. A picture tells a thousand words....

P.S. I dislike writing backstories you cant always exhibit a story with your painting :D

Tommy Lee
11-16-2004, 10:44 AM
Daryl,

Below is the first post for your new CG challenge entry.

"Thought I'd throw my hat in again....sounds like a fun topic! A little broad perhaps, but I think that will just generate a huge variety of crazy-ass images."

After seeing this, we were slightly disillusioned.

Look, we've all become well accustomed with your last entry which won the machineflesh challenge! The classic and proven fantasy elements were applied to great effect and with great anitciaption we sat and waited for your entry to this challenge.

Clearly, we accept that this is a very early stage in your image development, and it's fair to say that the expert techniques applied in the previous challenge have made a memorable comeback. With reference to your winning piece, however, we couldn't help but notice, well...

You know the monster in your machineflesh entry?
Imagine you are the monster.
Could it be argued that your latest entry has great resemblance to the scene that monster would possibly be seeing. I mean, take for example, the rock on which your hero is standing.
'Nostalgic' is the only word which springs to mind. Then there is the pose, nostalgic still...
Then the character
The weapons
Composition
Theme
Scale
Hair
Lava
Colours
Protagonist design

Of course we have no problem with consistency and style, but the extent to which you have replicated the formula with your winning entry leaves a lot to be desired concerning your creative ingenuity. Its the same scene, different viewpoint. isn't it? and where is the epic quality this challenge requires?

Just for reference, the old and the new.



Below is a quote you raised regarding the storyline for the piece.

"I'm not a fan of writing a big back-story to explain the image - I really think the art needs to speak for itself"

The whole point of making a back story is to strengthen the quality of the image and the story it tells. For example, if you've thought about the history, function, age, personality, social standing, mentality etc of a character, all this not only helps design a better character, it also makes him more credible to the viewer. Regardless of the knowledge of your storyline. We're not saying write a detailed essay, but just considering these details before plunging into the image will in the long run make for a stronger image.

We would love to see how you respond to what would appear to be an overly critical post.


Faithfully,

People in disarray

:wise: :shrug: :banghead: :surprised :curious: .... bla,bla,bla.

Cheerz my friend

Hillartsympho
11-16-2004, 11:25 AM
yeah vaportrail, who are you? your criticism is non-constructive. If you're someone who has not entered, what does it matter? who could feel this way and think its a good idea to make an extra screen name just to go off about how jealous or contemptuous they are of daryl's work?? I think we can all learn something from him. I can agree with some of the points made, but you are rather harsh about he way you made them. crits shouldn't be accusations. Why don't you at least have to courage to make your comments under your own name and whats with aluding to being more than one person? as you said, you're obviously after a reaction, which you got, now lets get back to helping daryl.

vapourtrail
11-16-2004, 12:36 PM
in many respects my post was harsh and the tone was on the patronizing side, and it's true that this was to get a reaction. however, the excercise was not to slate daryl for the sake of it or out of jealousy, it's just that we (myself and a friend with a shared view) like to see innovation in concept design; new ideas and imagery that is truly fresh and exciting. as we said, we were looking forward to seeing how the previous winner would adapt to the new challenge and having seen daryl's new entry, we were just dissapointed at what to us seems like a slight lack of imagination.

the points i made are intended to state this view and ultimately help daryl out; ignoring my personal preference, it seems to us that if you enter an image into space opera that's virtually the same as your entry for machine flesh, you've got a greatly reduced chance of winning.

with the 25% community challenge system, we have the impression too many people are simply going round all the threads sucking up to people, offering encouragement, but not necessarily constructive criticism.

we intended merely to make daryl think a bit 'out of the box'. if it wasnt for people making such points i think the forums would be much more stale and unimaginative.

NOOB!
11-16-2004, 12:40 PM
i do think vapourtrail (http://cgtalk.com/member.php?u=107600) was just trying to help out guys.no need to be so defensive.

i do agree compostionally that,its VERY similar,but altogether it is a cool ass pic!!!

i dunno how the judges judge.so everyone relax and let daryl do as he wishes.

Jake G
11-16-2004, 12:59 PM
Nice work, the best part IMO is the area where the ring on the saturnish planet comes around in front of the planet with the nice blending effect. Like your machineflesh entry, it has great composition. If I had to crit anything, I'd say the rocky(?) surface the characters are standing on looks odd, but that appears to be from you not detailing it yet so it's all good.

Blackarts
11-16-2004, 07:46 PM
vaourtrail;

Thanks for you detailed post. Overally harsh? hah! I've had far worse in my day, and besides, everyone has a right to voice there opinion. Since you flatly stated that you wrote that to generate a response, I thought I would oblige.

"Thought I'd throw my hat in again....sounds like a fun topic! A little broad perhaps, but I think that will just generate a huge variety of crazy-ass images."My first post was simply intended to say that this contest would generate a lot of interesting art - from everyone. I think you took it to mean that I would be trying something crazy and whacky, but that was not my intent.

Generally, I think you succeeded in pointing out that my work has a recognizable style and that they look like they were designed and done by the same person. There is no doubt that they both deal with sci-fi themes, and I have injected simialr design sensibilites into each. Hey, no arguement there.

Does this mean I am un-creative? Who knows, that's an excellent question. You could ask the same thing of ANY artist out there who has made more than one peice of art, and especially about any artist who has done more than one peice of sci-fi art. Is Giger uncreative because his art all looks similar? Are Berkey spaceships just rip-offs of eachother? What about Brom? How do you judge creativity? Should art be judged on it's own or in comparison to past works? Frankly I can't tell you - It's a subjective matter, pure and simple, and I respect you thoughts on this.

Your claim that writing a story will somehow enhance your art is valid, and hey - if that creative process works for you, more power to you. But I've seen plenty of images with a lovely backstory that make absolutley no sense whatsoever, and try to cram so much story junk into a picture that the art just collapases. Sure a story is fine - but I make it up in my head as I paint the picture, and that's what I want the viewer to do. It get's them invloved, get's them to ask questions, and fill in the answers themsleves. Art that answers all the questions for you, whether they are written or in the picture I find dry and boring.

it seems to us that if you enter an image into space opera that's virtually the same as your entry for machine flesh, you've got a greatly reduced chance of winning. For the machineflesh challenge I just painted what I wanted see, I really didn't expect to win anything - the image was completely self-serving. I took a vague idea and ran with it. As you've probably noticed, I am doing the same thing here, painting an image that satisfies myself. Am I satisfied with it? Of course not. That's why it's a clearly labled WIP. So I think comparing it to a finished painting is a bit misleading.

As for winning something, of course I hope the judges and voters like it, but I don't enter these things to win prizes. I enter these contests because of the community interaction, and because I can paint what I want -not what an art director wants, and that is a huge difference. I do that every day for a living, and acting as your own art director is much more rewarding. My number one goal here is just to have some fun and make a painting that hopefully will kick some ass.


with the 25% community challenge system, we have the impression too many people are simply going round all the threads sucking up to people, offering encouragement, but not necessarily constructive criticism.
Hey - I agree with you that constructive criticism is essential. Everyone needs it, and I encourage it! But After reading your post top to bottom, I couldn't find any specific suggestions of what you (or your mysterious friend) would do differently. I thought you made some interesting and well thought out points about creativity and ingenuity, but as far as an actualy critique went, I didn't really see one, and that was what I was waiting for you to get to.

Anwyays, thanks for your feedback - I'm always interested to hear what people like or dislike about my work.

cheers,
-daryl

Blackarts
11-16-2004, 07:51 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1100634709_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1100634709_large.jpg)

Nothing much to say here, just expermenting a bit, and slowly tightening things.

vapourtrail
11-16-2004, 08:16 PM
Daryl,

That response was truly inspirational. I'm so, so glad you reacted in such an intelligent way, you really couldn't have said it better. although our taste in subject matter clash (which of course they will do, it's only natural!) I'm now assured that you are truly a humble and skilled artist.

For the record, the piece is looking severely tasty now! as a painting in itself it's really good. You're dead right about me not throwing in any advice at all, and if you will allow me to...All i'd do is drop the main characters down a bit into the golden section and bring them forward a bit (thus making them relatively bigger) I may consider putting elements of figures right in the foreground, out of focus to immerse the viewer further.

I look forward to your input on my entry, which is in the pipeline...

faithfully,

people no longer in disarray

Gord-MacDonald
11-16-2004, 08:30 PM
Your work is terrific. The work definitely has an iconic feel. The have the spontaneity of a war zone photojournalists imagery - capturing the "decisive moment" - but those moments are made convincing by your powerful drawing/rendering abilities, which fill that moment in with interesting detail.

element5
11-16-2004, 10:23 PM
Hiya....I think the characters a little bigger would look cool and as for something in the foreground.... maybe an alien hand in pain with blur...:)

MrFreeman
11-16-2004, 10:57 PM
:thumbsup: Coming along nicely....great composition...characters are strong and big in frame, and yet you've still got the scale / epic thing going...great stuff!! :applause:

TheTon
11-16-2004, 11:21 PM
Ummm... what to say.... errr.... right... constructive criticism... errrm....
OK. If I have to say something, I would say that in the situation they are obviously in, being over-run by the enemy, I would try and show a few more of his comrades who have been killed. It would reinforce the idea that they are the last hope for the humans being the last man standing...
I would also give him or her a wound. All our heroes get wounded and overcome their own pain to win the day... Go on... Chop his arm off or something... :)

That's about it.

Loving your style dude!

The Ton

BlueEyeLizard
11-16-2004, 11:46 PM
People like you scare people like me. It looks awesome. Don't know what else to say?

MechaHateChimp
11-16-2004, 11:59 PM
I just wanted to say that Im completely blown away. You have the most incredible skills... Ive seen work from thousands of illustrators in my life. In terms of science fiction, I personally consider your work as some of the best Ive seen. I cant wait to see the final piece.

Squibbit
11-17-2004, 12:07 AM
yeay darylman paint good majik

igorstshirts
11-17-2004, 12:48 AM
Damn Black... You bust. Some good work and debating going on in here, subscribing to this one for sure.

Someone mentioned Frazetta earlier, one of the masters of sci-fi works. Even though he tackled a broad range of sci-fi images, his style and composition are very reckognizable.

Russell_Collins
11-17-2004, 10:21 AM
Your work is terrific. The work definitely has an iconic feel. The have the spontaneity of a war zone photojournalists imagery - capturing the "decisive moment" - but those moments are made convincing by your powerful drawing/rendering abilities, which fill that moment in with interesting detail.
You know, half the reason I religiously read these replies to threads insanely laden with dial-up-bandwidth-choking art is for ideas for references... ..."war zone photojournalists' imagery"... perfect. Google image search, here I come (modem don't fail me now!).

bolchover
11-17-2004, 11:58 AM
the WIP is looking good. I especially like the colours, and the looseness of some of strokes in the detail at the front. If it were me, I would try not to lose that completely as you tighten things up, as it adds spontaneity to the image :)

monsitj
11-17-2004, 02:21 PM
i'm glad to enter this challenge and see professional work develop ! it's like step by step learning ! with your work .... i have a lot more to learn..........can't comment anything !awesome work!

Arctis
11-17-2004, 07:18 PM
Nice picture, very well painted : that's professional art !
I like your art, though i'm not a fantasy style fan !
It's interesting that Vaportrail compared two pictures of you : I think you have improved your skill through the second one, especially concerning colors and lights. Great piece of work.

My space opera (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=185203)

NinjaA55N
11-18-2004, 09:19 AM
Still a very good one. I especially like the mood on main characters faces, but I see that u have another human character laying on the ground. It would be good not pointing him out so much, coz the main focus should stay at the those one on the top on the hill. Maybe giving a helmet to that third person would not make him so personal to the viewer, atract too much attention. Just an idea.

markovicd
11-18-2004, 12:17 PM
incredible work... i am immpresseeeeeddddd... no wonder why u won machine-flash!

Blackarts
11-22-2004, 01:04 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1101085484_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1101085484_large.jpg)

After not working on this for several days I came back and looked at it, and just wasn't getting that fuzzy feeling.

I felt I was just trying to cram too much into the frame, so I spent this afternoon reworking it. I wanted to inject more of a painterly feel into it, I thought I was kind of losing that a bit trying out all the previous BG elements. Also noticed I needed to choose a bit stronger pallete.

leigh
11-22-2004, 01:26 AM
I think your entry serves as a great example to others of how characters should be depicted in the Space Opera theme - you've managed to create a sense of action and drama in the image, whereas others seem to struggle with the dilemma of making mere characters evoke such ideas.
You're definitely headed in the right direction. If you're not getting a warm fuzzy feeling from it, then perhaps you need to take a short break from it :) I know I get like that when I work on something for a while.

teknotek83
11-22-2004, 02:07 AM
i think your edit was well called for, Daryl. At first I was thinking "where'd the cool spaceship go??". But the image is a lot more easier on the eyes now that it's gone. The vibrancy has definetely been taken up a few notches, and that's great! It makes it feel more sci-fi-ish. But one thing I do miss is the cool rings! Also, the hatching/brush texture seems a tad bit overdone in this image. I'd make it a bit sparse. Keep up the good work!

oh. one more thing. what are the main characters looking/shooting at? maybe you can have an alien leaping at them (headcrab! :p )

Squibbit
11-22-2004, 04:54 AM
nghh..... I liked the big ship... like it was SUPPOSED to make you

feel uncomfortable , looming over there all dark and foreboding...

man...

dragongirl
11-22-2004, 05:40 AM
I have to say that I liked the planet with the rings and the spaceship in the picture. Oh and the green blood splatter from the other picture was cool too.

Blackarts
11-22-2004, 07:25 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1101108303_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1101108303_large.jpg)

one last little update.

Blackarts
11-22-2004, 07:35 AM
Leigh; hey thanks leigh, those are very kind words.

teknotek83 ; thanks....I would rather imply something menacing off-camera than have an alien jumping at them...less is more?

Squibbit; how about I trade you an ugly ship for a cool looking flag? ;) I was thinking about trying to rework the flag back in.

dragongirl; i enjoy planet rings too....I' might try and work them back in. I'm not sure they are still needed.

thanks for the feedback all. In regards to the changes I made, I felt I needed a more inviting image...the previous idea was too claustrophic...making the viewer uncomfortable. I'm sure there will be more changes.

cheers,

/d

Speaky
11-22-2004, 08:03 AM
Hi there. While I really like your pic on so many levels, for me the removal of the spaceship has left it needing an element of the grand. I remember early on in your thread I said your focus on the characters needed to be balanced with a way of focussing on something happening in a wider context. Rather than remove the spaceship, how would you feel about shrinking what you've got at the moment, adding on some more canvas and finding a new composition? It's just a thought, in general I find your characterisation and painterly skills to be awesome!

taz23
11-22-2004, 09:54 AM
This is going sweet Daryl, can I print it as a poster? :) Add some fire on those guns or at leest on the one in the right arm of the guy.

Keep rolling dude! :thumbsup:

element5
11-22-2004, 10:33 AM
Blackarts: Now this is looking more dramatic, the less is more works well. :thumbsup:

ecura
11-22-2004, 02:37 PM
I personally like the original colour concept you had previously develop with the large spaceship hovering over the character, to me that had a grand and iconic feel. That element felt as if it was heavy and indestructible, something that is powerful which pulled the whole image together. It now seems to be a bit empty with little bits scattered here and there used to fill up the size of the canvas. I still like it and think your work is fantastic! but the previous attempts where better in my mind.

MoonVisionStudio
11-22-2004, 03:05 PM
As a book cover I guess it would make sense to leave the top area with more space (no pun intended) for the title. But I liked it better with the spacecraft and the planet rings back there. Maybe all it needed was a different color for the spacecraft? Anyway, as a painting it is fabulous, great color and technique. I am sure the final, which ever way it goes, will blow people's doors off.

NinjaA55N
11-22-2004, 05:20 PM
Very good! I like those little ships more than that big one u had before. Maybe just make this pic deeper at the horizont, so there wont be just first plan. I need that the depth is needed here. Just a suggestion :)

Fahrija
11-22-2004, 06:11 PM
Hi Daryl,

Your foreground part of the image looks great but

I liked the big spaceship in the background very much. > It looked very daunting and loomed large from the left side into the picture. Its position gave the viewer also additional information about the perspective and increased the depth by pushing the planet a bit more backwards. As regards the content it underlined the desperate situation of the main characters because for me it gave the impression that the enemy appeared with an enormous superiority. The current ships look more like rescuer and the current arrangement reminds me of an air show. None the less it is a great image but I think it appeared stronger before.

Greetings
Fahrija

Blackarts
11-22-2004, 06:37 PM
thanks for comments...looks like I caused some controversy when I axed the big ship. =)

Well I'm going to stick to my guns here and say that I think the old ship idea was pretty awful and wasn't working very well at all. A big ship might still make it in in some form, but I like what I have going on here now much more than before. I think the feeling it creates is stronger, and I have a clearer picture in my head about where I want to take this.

Anyways, looking forward to getting back to this and pushing it further.

cheers,

/d

Arctis
11-22-2004, 11:54 PM
Hi Blackarts,
Maybe I'll be a bit tough, but I really dislike the "paint" texture : it looks artificial. It's obvious that then you're doing your pict, you proceed as a painter, no need for more. I wonder why a digital artist want a visible paint touch : Is the digital art be more noble by looking like traditionnal painting ?
From XIIIth to XIXth century, painters were looking for the perfect touch : the invisible touch. Then, when artists like Monet or Turner let brush traces appear on their canvas, it was not for giving more authenticity to their work, it's because they didn't care : for them, impression was more important than finition. I don't remember brush traces on Frazetta's oils...
That's my perception, and believe that I consider you as a real good painter, no need effects or filter to see that.

Cheers !!!

My space opera (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=185203&page=2&pp=15)

Blackarts
11-23-2004, 12:03 AM
hey arctis,

I'm not really sure what you mean, I don't use any filters or effects to get those strokes. Your pont isn't clear to me.

Blackarts
11-23-2004, 12:04 AM
*edit* sorry double post


hey arctis,

I'm not really sure what you mean, I don't use any filters or effects to get those strokes. Your point isn't clear to me.

dougbot
11-23-2004, 01:43 AM
Man your work is incredible. Just beautiful. I do have to say, I really liked the ringed plant in the previous version. It had that immense "on some far planet against impossible odds" vibe. Don't get me wrong, I really like where you're going with this one too. Just my 2 cents.

Great work. I love checking this thread, although it completely discourages me ;)

BloodTaster
11-23-2004, 12:15 PM
Blackarts,
Fantastic job, your a great painter... no doubt!:applause:
About the great black ship on the back.. i understaind when you say "wasn't working very well at all". I agree with you.
So, maybe you can put another ship, more like this new ones...and not so big as the old one.(just my opinion)

well...Your pic it´s gone be great, I'm sure:scream:

TMArtist
11-23-2004, 05:04 PM
Hi there! I just wanted to let you know that I think your work is excellent. Keep up the good work. I was reading some of the previous reply posts concerning style textures, etc., and thought of an interesting suggestion in the event that you are tempted to make a change to the look of your image. I think a significant change could be made just by altering your color scheme from warm neutrals to something else (e.g., on the blue or green end of the spectrum). Concerning the remarks about your brush texture, I find that they lend a lot of interest to the lower half of your picture. However, you might opt for a different texture on the planet in the upper portion of your picture just to keep away from any possibility of "flattening" the picture from potential overuse of the texture. Of course, with all that said, I like it just as it is. Follow your instincts on what you think is best. I'll be most interested to see what you come up with for the final go around.
Regards, TMArtist

sidchagan
11-23-2004, 06:18 PM
Theres less going on, but thanks to the new color palette and cleaner look, this actually does look better than the old one.

OKMER
11-23-2004, 06:48 PM
Yep,this a really nice too,Daryl!!Don't know who said it but I agree that maybe enlarging a bit to the high could give even more feeling of grand space to the pic.
I agree with you for the ship at the background but like Bloodtaster,maybe another ship(their's, waiting for them) more blurred in the background.
Totally subjective I know,but just an suggestion like that.
Indeed it's a great pleasure to follow your pic man!!!Later..

My grand SpaceBra:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=184953

tlggungor
11-23-2004, 07:47 PM
good work man and good composition is very well

Arctis
11-23-2004, 10:39 PM
hey arctis,

I'm not really sure what you mean, I don't use any filters or effects to get those strokes. Your pont isn't clear to me.
Maybe I wasn't clear,sorry. I mean that these strokes seem artificial to me, like a texture put on the pict afterwards to make it look like a painting.
Maybe I misunderstood your intentions, I only gave my reaction, that's all...

Good luck.

Blackarts
11-23-2004, 10:49 PM
gotcha arctis, I see what you mean now. I do like to use overlay layers and such to break up the solid colors, I guess if you over do it it can be cheesy. It's a balancing act. I do like the idea of capturing a bit of the spontaniety you get with tradional media, I think it adds to the personality of the paitning.

dougbot
11-24-2004, 10:37 PM
Hey with what I posted earlier, nevermind. The more I think about and look at this new one, I like the huge planet over the ringed one. It's damn cool, and again....ultimately depressing ;)

Tommy Lee
11-25-2004, 12:23 AM
Blackarts: Now this is looking more dramatic, the less is more works well. :thumbsup:
Yepp! Have to agree. Made the whole pic less busy but grander. And the emotional involvement is bigger here on my side of the screen too.

Velinov
11-26-2004, 05:28 PM
Great job on colors. Nice composition and atmosphere. Keep it up :thumbsup:

uwil
11-26-2004, 06:32 PM
hi daryl, nice update and superb use of color :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

fkcsantaclaus
11-27-2004, 07:55 AM
nothing i can say but keep watching your work update............your painting is so GREAT :thumbsup: i learn so much from you :)

Gord-MacDonald
11-27-2004, 01:46 PM
You have gone through an interesting journey thus far in this competition. The last image posted appears to me to be a wonderful distilation of your earlier studies. You have achieved a bold, clean, and decisive vision. Good work.

Blackarts
11-27-2004, 07:06 PM
Hey guys,

thanks for the feedback - I am not sold on the colors yet, I think I'm going to revist them...I still feel they could be more pleasing. And the rings...well I miss them too, they are going to go back in in some form. It helps sells the fact they are somewhere other than earth, and helps out the flow of the eye. The girls pose needs work to....it's awkward. I'm starting to see how the final painting might come together though, so that's a good sign, I felt a bit lost for a bit there - especially when I was trying to balance that big ship in there. I'll post an updated WIP soon...hopefully I'll have some time this weekend to sit down with this. more madness to come....

/d

Blackarts
11-30-2004, 02:59 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1101783562_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1101783562_large.jpg)

just working up to the next milestone requirement. Things slowly starting to gel...working some new ideas in...you get the picture.

teknotek83
11-30-2004, 03:15 AM
thank you for bringing the ring back it :P the ring does seem to have some perspective problems, but i'm sure you already know that. the colors are looking very lively and you seem to have a very strong diagnol composition. maybe for the guy's right arm, his elbow should be slightly bent? it looks a tad wonky right now. keep on going, man! you're way ahead of me (it's just a head start http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/twisted.gif)

V_Shane
11-30-2004, 05:56 AM
Damn you Blackarts :scream: Bringing in the Rings back is brilliant, it gives alot of urgency of motion to the piece. Very cool. The Girls outfit is MUCH better and the pose very tight.

Freefall Alpha
11-30-2004, 11:59 AM
hi daryl,

just to say i'm glad you brought those rings back, they work so well compositionally. i realise they need tightening up in terms of perspective, i loved them before; the way they looked so translucent and colourful. i think they could do with being more accentuated so that they really command that top right corner - they look slightly weak and undefined at the moment.

team freefall is sure you're on top of it!

-tom

NinjaA55N
11-30-2004, 12:05 PM
Bravo! U brought a great dynamics into this piece.. but im thinking that the composition is not quite stable at the moment.. all the lines and characters views go in one way which slightly disbalance the picture. And thats my only crit at the moment :) Very nice stuff!

Squibbit
11-30-2004, 12:40 PM
that medic band is a nice touch. Otherwise its just an excellent pic :)

the action, the opposing slopes , cool stuff....hey I just noticed that
lying dude is no more firing ! yea if u add a muzzle flash there it would
fall over that monster and make it unclear... still I liked the lying dude
firing... maybe add a grenade in his bloodied hand ..or is it completely
useless ?

MoonVisionStudio
11-30-2004, 01:18 PM
WOW! Looking great, gonna be tough to hold a candle to this. I love the "happy" rock in the bottom center. ; )

AirbORn
11-30-2004, 03:58 PM
Great work! There is a great sense of action and also scale, but as much as I love the composition, I would really like to see more indications of a vast civilivation. Perhaps that isn't needed in this composition but it would be nice to see that.

Amazing work Daryl Keep it up!

Blackarts
11-30-2004, 05:38 PM
teknotek83; I think the perspective of the rings is not too bad, its the planet that makes them look out of whack, it needs to be rounder. There probably needs to be a shadow cast on the planets surface by the rings as well.

V_Shane; thanks, I'll probably redesign the outfit some more. I think it could be stronger.

Freefall Alpha (Vapourtrail) (Team Freefall); you need to pick a name and stick with it. =) Yeah, I want to give the rings a bit more of a glassy feel they had a while ago. It's on my to-do list.

NinjaASSN; thanks - I'm pretty happy with the flow of things, there's definatly a few areas I see that could be tweaked to help things out.

Squibbit; muzzle flashes and FX I'll drop in near the end....he'll still be firing, and there'll be some lasers and stuff and dirt flying....you get the idea.

AirbORn; thanks man, yeah - I don't want to get carried away adding things just for the sake of it...but there might be some sort of structure in the distance. I'm not sure on this yet.

thanks for the comments, your feedback is valuable!

Tranchefeux
11-30-2004, 05:48 PM
Hi, Very cool last tone posts....

Arctis
11-30-2004, 05:56 PM
Hi,
Beautiful work, man !
That's my favourite work of you.:thumbsup:
Will you detail the character on the bottom ?
Keep on !

techart
11-30-2004, 06:09 PM
nice work dude....love it like hell....your pure amazing style...great one too :)...love the characters alot man...good job...cheers

cabertevon
11-30-2004, 07:00 PM
Another great piece...Congratulations!!!

turbinea
11-30-2004, 08:40 PM
very nice update, i like character setup, picture looks very dynamic, but i miss that black ship.
these smaller ships are for me just "common movie poster stuff" while old one adds threat to the scene.

Blackarts
12-01-2004, 03:23 AM
Hey guys,

What do you think of the image flipped? I am starting to like it this way even though I thought I had settled on the unflipped version. I think it's because your eye is lead into the image instead of out. I dunno, I would like to hear some opinions for or against this just out of curiosity.

http://members.shaw.ca/blackarts/assets/coloringWIP05_flipped.jpg

Arctis; thanks - yeah everything will be detailed out more, there's going to be some interesting foreground elements to put in.

SideAche
12-01-2004, 03:43 AM
Daryl, I like it this way. I'm so used to the main action going from left to right, it is nice to see it the opposite. It seems to add just a bit more tension, for me at least. I might highten the fallen soldiers arm, action line, a bit when you start detailing that section. It could counter balance what is going on with the other two figures. Another great one :applause:

CodeNothing
12-01-2004, 05:11 AM
I like it flipped! This is an awsome pic! :thumbsup:

my only crit would be the chest piece seems awkward to me on the male character, it makes him look turned around at first glance, and the colors of the planet in the distance dont sit well with me, im not sure why. mabie try bringing the value of the entire backround down a few shades?

i duno, awsome pic.

AirbORn
12-01-2004, 05:24 AM
Daryl, I also agree with SideAche keep it flip this way. It has a much better feeling to the eye movement. Oh baby!

In my previous post I mentioned adding more indications of a vast civilization and you mentioned after that you may add something in the background. With the composition flipped and after having another really good look, I no longer think it needs anything in the background.

Once again great work!

Freefall Alpha
12-01-2004, 07:59 AM
I have to say I preferred it back the way it was; It seems more natural reading the piece from left to right, with the eye being caught in the top left, led round, right throught the picture by the rings and into the action which then flows out to the left nicely and to the right with the guns which seems like a natural outlet.

Now it seems a bit empty somehow, you're coming down from the left and straight away the characters are staring back at you and pointing off the page. For me this disrupts the flow of the image, takes all the emphasis away from the elements on the right and bottom, and leaves it feeling unbalanced and empty.

So I preferred it before, unflipped when frankly it was better.

-Tom

geron
12-01-2004, 09:31 AM
hi , first post in this thread. Amazing work . I like it a lot. I prefer non flipped version but one difference .Just flip the planet (with rings) and the ships . If you do that ships' angles are gonna fit with guns' and arms' angles . I hope I could explain .Just a thought. You know what to do of course. keep it up. great work.

MoonVisionStudio
12-01-2004, 01:29 PM
I dont like it as much this way. In the previous version I felt that I was coming in with the light into the scene. This way the diagonals of their arms are so strong that they are bouncing my eye back out. Honestly though, either way it is an awesome pic, I dont think it will make that much of a difference.

P.S. There is still a rock at the bottom of the image that looks just like a happy face, was that intentional?

bonestudio
12-01-2004, 02:01 PM
Very very cool pic !!! Another stunning piece man.

I just have a litle problem with the man's left arm, which seems to parallel to the other one. He coul kill a monster on his left and not necessarily behind him...

Blackarts
12-01-2004, 05:18 PM
thanks, it's always interesting to hear people's rationale on things. I doubt I'll decide on a final orientation until it's all finsihed up.

Jose; heh - that 'happy face' is a 5-second block in of an upside down face in agony...so it won't be happy for long.

Squibbit
12-01-2004, 05:25 PM
muzzle flashes and FX I'll drop in near the end....he'll still be firing, and there'll be some lasers and stuff and dirt flying....you get the idea.
-eexcellent :thumbsup:


and I think I liked the pic a bit better when it wasn't yet flipped :)

penumbrae
12-01-2004, 10:50 PM
Wow... that tecnic is so good, I like the lights, very good work... I think its too late for this but, I think it is similar to Alien vs. Predator... but is original too...

Good work :bounce:

igorstshirts
12-01-2004, 10:56 PM
This is coming out awesome.

I would suggest that the three ships should be flipped horizontal so that it forces the dynamic of the picture in the same direction, in turn, this would lead the viewer's eye from the ships, around the planet's ring, to our main chars, then to the blasted invaders and back to the ship's vapor trails. Thus, making a nice circular path for the eye. My 2.

adonihs
12-01-2004, 11:30 PM
my god I hope you win!

this is amazing! jesus, you won the last one and I wouldnt be surprised if you won again my man! god, wow what a comic book pose =D I LOVE THIS!!

kaparo
12-05-2004, 11:29 PM
Hey, great work! I love the light most of all but everything in here fells very space opera. I haven´t seen it in a while and I get surprised cause the big alien ship over our heroes dissapear! I like it more with it. It gaves the composition more suspense and increase the menacing power of the enemy. Like it is right now it looks more quite. Anyway it is 1A! The reencarnation of Frazetta!

Blackarts
12-06-2004, 03:50 AM
Squibbit; yeah, it's always easier to add all the eye candy afterwards, it's also fun doing FX type painting.

penumbrae; thanks man, I havent seen AVP, the trailer looked horrible to me...but I grew up loving those kinds of movies so there is probably some Aliens and Predator influence in there for sure. Gotta make sure those beaties don't look *too* Alien though.

igorstshirts; thanks for the suggestion - I might give that a try.

adonihs; holy crap - thanks! This still needs a lot more polish, but I'm glad that it seems to be resonating with people.

kaparo; thanks for your comments dude. The reincarnation of Frazetta??...naw not even close, ,but thanks. =) Frazetta did a lot of things art-wise that I admire though...strong action, strong colors, bold forms....I try and take those principles and inject them with my own style and influences.

cheers guys

AlexKaiser
12-06-2004, 04:29 AM
I must say I really like your painting style and the way you work up the image, never ceases to amaze me in your work. Just thought I'd pop in and say that, keep it up, the pics looking great.

uwil
12-06-2004, 04:50 AM
hi Daryl, the flip looks more striking. :thumbsup:

NinjaA55N
12-06-2004, 08:53 PM
I think both versions r just great, cant decided which i like more at the moment.. but that just shows how great composition u have.. And i lost the feeling of unstability of the pic. :)
Great work man!

Blackarts
12-07-2004, 05:40 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1102398046_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/4023/4023_1102398046_large.jpg)

Just trying to push things more....the BG ships are still very heavily under construction, as is most of the foreground bottom frame stuff. The little marks around the guns will evolve into some sort of energy-shell-casing-something or other...mainly just there to suggest movement...for anyone following the flip-non flip debate, I flipped it back just for the sake of it, I'm still deciding which I prefer. Anyways, this is the result of a couple hours this past weekend. I have thick skin, speak your mind, good or bad.

uwil
12-07-2004, 05:52 AM
always better :thumbsup:

bonestudio
12-07-2004, 02:26 PM
WOAW ! This is getting better and better, if this was possible :)

I think you're on the good way for victory !

zachlost
12-07-2004, 03:31 PM
I'm not sure what your plans are for the foreground, but as a suggestion, perhaps the backs of the attacking aliens, maybe about three framing the edges - with their heads and shoulders, would give the impression that they are REALLY surrounded.

The background accomplishes the sense of the epic. I'm not sure if anything else needs to be added there in terms of further elements - perhaps a little destruction in the skies?

bolchover
12-07-2004, 03:55 PM
hi, this is loking good. I think it could be a bit grander - more enemies, something like that, or vista. I haven't been following your flip/no-flip debate(!) but I'd have them facing left rather than right (as in your latest update). Reasons being: psychologists have shown viewers tend to examine a work in zigzag across image, roughly left to right. This means your latest is more harmonoius composition (whic is ine) but the initial one (I would say) is more appropriate to teh challenge as the figures are placed 'against the grain' - thus more aggressive - which fits with what is being portrayed ie a scene of desperate last stand aggression type thing... just a thought :)

walrus
12-07-2004, 04:50 PM
Hey, Daryl, it's looking really great! I really like some of the new changes, especially the improvements in the woman's outfit - i like the addition of red and the changes to her boots and hair - as well as the new figure with the head-go-splat at the bottom. I don't like the hero's face right now as much as I liked the grimmer closed-mouth in the previous shots. Right now the grimace is feeling a little cartoonier than the rest of the piece, and I just liked the determination in his face more than the anger/fear portrayed there now.

Just to throw in another opinion about the facing left versus right - because I'm sure there's nothing you need more than another opinion about that! :-) - but I like this orientation better. It may come from years of both looking at and actually producing book covers, but for a dustjacket illo, you generally want the action and the characters facing in towards the inside of the book, which in English books is on the right. So American/English book covers more often orient left to right instead of visa versa.

anyhow, best of luck with it, it's coming along wonderfully!

-mike

Arctis
12-07-2004, 06:04 PM
Hi Blackarts,
About flip or not flip, your last update has my favourite orientation.
I also like the red suit of the girl : it catch better the eye of the spectator.
Keep on the good work ! :thumbsup:

Blackarts
12-07-2004, 09:23 PM
Thanks for your opinions guys, I'm leaning toward this orientation...I'm toying with some ideas for the BG just to push it back a bit and give it some more depth. Just increase the scale of things slightly. And I'm still not entirely happy with the colors, so I think there'll be some changes there as well....take out some saturation here and there, and add more grit....more saving private ryan like.....that sort of thing.

walrus; thanks - yeah I've been trying different facial poses, I think I'll push it back to where I had it a bit. I think stern determination works better too.

Russell_Collins
12-07-2004, 11:07 PM
It is interesting to see that you've switched to a more conventional style of weapon given your affinity for blue lasers ;)

I like both directions equally well so flipping is not an issue to my eyes' appreciation of this piece. I do wonder about the "gore" factor though. Will the carnage be explicit or implied? I think the previous expression on the medic was more appealing than this one but this one is perhaps more appropriate for the scene. The "Braveheart" face paint on the main dude is cool too, just another nice touch on an overwhelmingly cool picture.

ered dium
12-08-2004, 02:31 AM
Great artwork, your characters looks very cool and all the backgroud.
Maybe you can draw more enemies on the right side.
One of the best images.


Grand Space Opera - http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=180121

adonihs
12-08-2004, 02:47 AM
Overall, I think this is amazing, but isnt his gun (firing at the alien behind him) a little high?

other than that, keep it up man =D looks great!!! so smooth

Onsloh
12-08-2004, 03:37 AM
Really a piece of art mate.Love the poses,love the tones.Love it.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Tommy Lee
12-08-2004, 07:19 AM
Just love it... nothing more to say or to crit!:eek:

element5
12-08-2004, 07:26 AM
Man just dropped by and your image is tightening up fantastic....I have no crits my friend :)

ScribbleHEAD
12-08-2004, 09:16 AM
impressive work blackarts :thumbsup:

mack72
12-08-2004, 09:22 AM
Sorry I'm a bit late in adding my two pence worth! The rich, warm tones really work for the concept, but (obviuosly I realise its still a work in progress) maybe it would be worth adding some darker, colder tones for the enemy elements, to help give it more drama?

Then again, what do I know, my first sketch still looks like a heroic space dwarf!

Jezzarts
12-08-2004, 12:55 PM
I'm loving this, such a cool style. Id like to see some alien silhouettes on the hill to right to show these characters are getting out numbered, and maybe some more/different ships as well. Looks great as is though... cheers

Nomad
12-08-2004, 05:21 PM
Not followed your work from a while... you made great progress... I like a lot the characters :thumbsup:
The only crit is that there is not enough ennemies around... shoud be massive crowd here by looking on the number of bullets spread by the heroes :D


Keep up the grand art :bounce:

Blackarts
12-08-2004, 11:29 PM
Russell_Collins; hah - yeah I don't know what the weapons will be firing, I'll figure something out. I'll work in some blue somehwere though. As for the gore, it won't too crazy, nothing more than a bit of blood....the violence should be more sensed than seen. Gore can be distracting.

ered dium; thanks, I'll probably rework that right side....something more cliff-like maybe. Havent decided yet. There'll be more aliens too, I just need to work them in there somehow.

adonihs; hey, yep - suprised no one else has said anything about that, I've been meaning to fix that for a bit, I just havent gotten around to it. I want it to read like his arm in motion maybe strafing the body with bullets, this needs a fix.

Onsloh; thanks man

element5; thanks, it's starting to come together. I still have a lot of work to do.

ScribbleHEAD; cheers

mack72; good suggestion, thanks, I'll be tweaking colors a lot. I usually tweak colors all the way up till the end.

Jezzarts; thanks dude

Nomad; thanks - yes....more bodies to come.

RLyons
12-09-2004, 03:35 AM
Killer pick, reminds me of some of the Warhammer art, I'd like to see the big ship come back into play but I trust what ever you choose will kick arse.

adonihs
12-09-2004, 03:44 AM
Blackarts, i've been thinking, what if you a very personal fire from that gun in his hand (the one aiming back), and have the recoil knocking the gun back a few inches with the insides of the guys head scattering all around. Kind of like a profile view of the weapon!

But yeah, it looks amazing, im very impressed :)

Edit: As Rylons said, that big ship really made the picture epic, I was hankering for you to leave that, but I know you'll do a grand job no matter what you do!

SteveNewport
12-10-2004, 07:37 AM
Daryl, I've been staring at your picture off and on, amongst other threads, for about a half hour. It's very hard to critique something like this. You're now natural habits of composition, color and dynamics are far beyond me and I couldn't give any advice on any technical end, because you obviously have it down pretty well!
But, the only thing I found kind of off was the ring around your planet. I'm sure it might be too late to fix now, but it looks as though the ring is not a perfect circle on it's perspective. Normally when things get closer to us, such as the movement of this ring from behind to planet to coming closer to us and sweeping back around the front, they get bigger. It seems to me that when this ring get's closer, it pushes back closer to the planet and stays about the same width as further up the ring... others jump in here and either tell me I'm wrong or see what I'm seeing. It just looks as if you were to have a profile birds-eye view of this ring, the right side would be smeared in, not a perfect circle. You could add a lot to the dynamics, i think, if it got substantially larger and swept across the right side of the screen, almost as if it were about to hit this planet we were on. Let me know what you think of it
nothing much other than that for now. It's a great image, I can't say more than anyone else says. Very heroic, dynamic and powerful
awesome job and keep up the work