PDA

View Full Version : Grand Space Opera 2D Entry: Andreas Rocha


Pages : [1] 2

andreasrocha
10-18-2004, 05:59 PM
Andreas Rocha has entered the Grand Space Opera 2D.

Challenge Page (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/grandspaceopera/view_entries.php?challenger=3887)

Latest Update: Final Image: "The Last Days That Will Never Be"
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1105911800_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1105911800_large.jpg)

"The Last Days That Will Never Be

Not far from daily life in an immense place, millions of human beings live sheltered surrounded by an unconscious silence. From the sky dome above the restless urban life, hardly recognizable, emerges a familiar light that fertilizes the Earth.

However, there are other lights we ignore, perhaps evil, who knows. This is why there are dense clouds that shift according to winds and feelings of restlessness and doubt.

The human being lives side by side with a reality that transcends him. He is not conscious of many things that are beyond the futile concerns that take over his life.

But, man did not arrive yesterday to this world. He has been living in it for millions of years. Therefore, he has gathered precious wisdom. This inheritance of wisdom is like a venerable old man who helps facing the unknown, leading the way."


Finally finished. This challenge has been very special to me and I am really glad to have been part of it. So much great artwork produced simultaneously and watching the WIP was really inspiring. I've learned a lot these past few months...I can't even count all the hours that went into this.

I would like to give a special thanks to my work colleagues Rui, Manoo and Agostinho for all the great criticism and suggestions they gave me. Also a special thanks to my good friend Carlos aka DrFX. Thanks to everybody who took their time to comment.

Dedicated to Elsa.

andreasrocha
10-21-2004, 12:10 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098313835_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098313835_large.jpg)

Initial sketches...I usually don't do this...but I think it is working out better than I thought.

andreasrocha
10-21-2004, 12:14 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098314036_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098314036_large.jpg)

Just testing what's out there...

GaNNEl
10-21-2004, 12:36 AM
He! Nice sketches!!!:thumbsup: As I can see its like a city and some spaceships... Keep it up and good luck! :D

Haman
10-21-2004, 02:16 AM
I like sketch A, but I think it needs more happening in the foreground to give it more depth... and I like the "vertical" nature of sketch B, but there's not much going on in the background... what if you combined them somehow? I think you've got a lot of talent.

R-K
10-21-2004, 06:30 AM
nice start, I know what you're talking about with not doing initial sketching, but I guess it's useful if you have time to do them (like here).

About your sketches, sketch E is best by far, it's interesting enough and I trust it will best even after coloring :thumbsup: so stick with it if you don't bother sketching anymore, but sketch more if you can, you'll get tons of new ideas and solutions to problems you can use later.

Fahrija
10-21-2004, 08:34 AM
Your scetches have a nice depth.
Scetch A is nice because it looks very monumental because of the vertikal arrangement.

have fun

Speaky
10-21-2004, 09:04 AM
Hi Andreas, you've got some great sketches here. My favourite is sketch E followed by sketch C - both of these with their repeated structures will allow you to create a sense of vastness to the image. There's just something about E's composition that I really like and that mysterious structure in the upper right intrigues me. Great start! :thumbsup:

MKStudios
10-21-2004, 09:45 AM
Cool comps! I think I'm a little partial to D. It seems the repeating shapes there seem to give the most depth to me. That would be cool with a 2-point perspective. Good start so far!

andreasrocha
10-22-2004, 07:38 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098427111_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098427111_large.jpg)

I think I'll pick about three of the initial concepts and try to refine them some more...to see if something can be made out of them. The first one is Sketch E...
Do you think the image it too cliché? Some friends told me it looked like Bespin/Cloud City...which I didn't want it to look like...Suggestions to spice this one up are more than welcome.

Speaky
10-22-2004, 08:55 AM
Andreas. it doesn't strike me as a bespin city clone, not at all. If there were only one of the structures, and it was set among peach / orange clouds then maybe! My immediate thought would be to bring that foreground one quite a bit closer so you can render out lots of detail on it, showing how involved and huge it is, and the others in the background could perhaps extend up and meet the object overhead which I'm hoping is another, even bigger structure. The organic tranquility of a beach would work very nicely to balance the scene. Just a thought, it's looking v. promising.

R-K
10-22-2004, 12:15 PM
it's just getting better. Though it maybe would be wise to add a spaceship making it's way to closest of stations or leavin from closest of stations - focus to the ship or not, it would still bring some action to the image and would still leave it tranquile. Just my thoughts, if you have free time, maybe try sketching some of those?

EDIT: and now that I remember to say this, I wasn't thinking of bespin at all.

Lunatique
10-23-2004, 09:13 AM
You have a good idea so far, and the sketch works, however, I think it would be a good idea to incorporate characters into the scene--since space operas aren't operas without characters.

andreasrocha
10-23-2004, 01:37 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098535063_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098535063_large.jpg)

I'm trying to be quite open-minded in the beginning so I won't get stuck with one idea. Therefore this is a completely different approach than the previous sketch his is a refinement of sketch C. One thing I like in this one is the entrance of light and the crisp cast shadows inside a cluttered, dark and almost oppressing hangar.
Composition is not good and the image is a bit confusing, but as I said, this is more something to keep my ideas fresh.

RobW720
10-23-2004, 01:48 PM
when I saw concept E, i didnt really see a floating station. actually it looked like something jottin' out of water. very still water with a nice reflection which i thought was really cool. but it works as a floating station as well. i like that concept a lot.

Luffie
10-23-2004, 02:58 PM
Sketch B n D looks promising! It is creative, i'd like to see it being developed further, keep it up! :)

rickycox
10-23-2004, 03:00 PM
I like the refinements of the last two. One thing I think might help, is to think about some sort of story, to show something happening in the image.

dreamer3dchic
10-23-2004, 09:58 PM
I really like the refinement you have on sketch c. You have an excellent composition with good contrast, dynamic diagonals that lead your eye around the image, and a soft place for your eyes to rest on after taking it in. I imagine that whatever you end with will be great, but I look forward to seeing that one develop.

MechaHateChimp
10-23-2004, 10:16 PM
Sketch C by far takes the cake for me. It reminds me alot of Space Harrier, one of my favorite games of all time... I really love the perspective you've chosen.

Borro
10-23-2004, 10:47 PM
Great job man!!! I'm looking forward to seeing some more of your work here :)

element5
10-24-2004, 10:49 AM
I love the both refined images I cant choose, hanging out for more updates :thumbsup:

Hecartha
10-24-2004, 01:44 PM
i really like your last image! Viewing the thumbnail i thought the structure was bigger with really big plate holding a whole city. Perhaps you could work on the size but it is already a great concept. Good luck

Tranchefeux
10-24-2004, 02:47 PM
Hello,
Of good ideas in your projects directions have well the size of
the things.
Good luck.
MY SPACE OPERA (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=178449)

centavrus
10-24-2004, 09:02 PM
i like all, but most the concept scetch D - it has real grandity and pressure i think:thumbsup:

hentsteph
10-24-2004, 10:19 PM
Stetch E is the one I prefer. On the top there is a diagonal dark shape (I'm not shure what it is) it gives the image a sence of mase coming down on the cloud cities I like.

andreasrocha
10-25-2004, 12:25 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098660340_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098660340_large.jpg)

This is my third refined sketch. Nothing new here...it's your typical futuristic cityscape. But, I think that if I can make it work as a pleasing image it will work. Light and shadow will be the main ingredients here.
Now I have three concepts/sketches and I'll have to pick one. Perhaps you can help me...Sketch A, Sketch C or Sketch E? Perhaps I'll work two to the end, since there is so much time to the end of the challenge.

andreasrocha
10-25-2004, 01:09 AM
I'm sorry you have the see the image so big, and hence have to scroll the image up and down. It's the automatic resizing CGTalk does to images smaller than 680px. Please click on the image to see a more "manageable" format.

unitstudio
10-25-2004, 01:19 AM
Andreas, they're all very fine sketches in the SF genre but I think you may need to develop a stroy to 'hang' them upon - you'll find the process far easier. The compositions of each, while only 1 point perspective is fine, but lacking a certain 'dynamism' or 'life' - it could be the lack of characters as some have suggested, but I would say it's crucial to develop a story.

For me the Hangar is protentially the most interesting - could it be a fleet preparing for a great battle? The scene would be brimming with activity and life...a higher viewpoint, looking with the use of 2 or 3 point perspective, as well as some foreground activity could give you a more more interesting and engaging piece.

They're nice, but they could so easily be great...
good work mate!
-g

EngineeredVision
10-25-2004, 06:31 AM
I definately think that your city has a deep immersive feel, but I would also have to agree that it needs a pivotal point of action driven by a story element. Maybe the city is the center of a foreign invasion or has been put under Marshall law, in which case you could show some characters attempting to flee the city. Of the three sketches though, I think that your city captivates me the most.

GL & HF

element5
10-25-2004, 09:09 AM
:applause: another fine concept!!

Hillartsympho
10-25-2004, 08:42 PM
Wow! i guess you are an achitect! your perpective sketches are great! maybe something for you to think about would be having the foreground or middleground overlap the background in some areas, as if they were layers, to contrast with the perspective lines that draw your eye back in space. diminishing size of these layers is another way to create a sense of deep space.

awesome work and good luck to you!

PetriJ
10-25-2004, 09:05 PM
Nice one, can't wait to see this finished.

andreasrocha
10-26-2004, 12:23 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098746631_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1098746631_large.jpg)

Made some sketches with a mechanical pencil and a ballpoint pen. Afterwards I added digital value. I decided I would go on with the hangar idea. Trying different points of view and two-point perspective as suggested by unitstudio. I kind of like the third one. More sketches to go and I still have to find a story...

unitstudio
10-26-2004, 02:50 AM
Yes these a very nice andreas - much stronger, much more engaging and interesting. They're fantastic, and it's difficult to pick a favourite. The tope one is interesting in that the lines of the hanger which could potentially have all kinds of interesting detail and human-scale activity point to your city in the distance - the eye moves easily from right to left...

The 2nd is very nice compositionally with the high viewpoint and the diagonal lines - very energetic and strong. It would be interesting to see this piece with more value differentiation - that is the hangar interior being cast in shadow (with techy scaffolding and equipment etc, and and a cloud or ocean(???) far below bathed in pure luminous light. It would look sensational (the kind of light you get at 30000ft above a cloud layer) - you could extend this piece further to the left, having the roofline trailing off and possibly a ship coming into dock. to the mid-far left of the image.

The third and fourth work quite well and would tell the story quite nicely but I would say that the top best tells a story and yet is still compositionally, quite engaging.

great work there!
-g

qwatkins
10-26-2004, 06:30 AM
I think sketch #1 has the most potential. By having a close-up to show some key parts and the open end that leads you into the rest of the city, it looks great.

Borro
10-26-2004, 09:12 AM
I like Refining scetch A, but it's not theme related... But you'll figure it ut I'm sure in that!

AirbORn
10-26-2004, 02:45 PM
These last few concepts remind me of the Macross Plus saga. Definalty work in my opinion. I see these concepts as bright sunny days with blue skys. Very nice feel to them. I also like the scene of scale. :)

techart
10-26-2004, 04:38 PM
love the latest sketches man...love it

elmasfeo
10-26-2004, 07:11 PM
I've noticed that you have somehow included your previous 3 refined sketches in the first one: the hangar, the buildings on the left, and the inverted buildings hanging from the sky in the far backgound...I don't know if it was intentional, but it's a good idea. Sketch 1 has more potential detail, I think it will look very good, but it will probably be the most difficult, sketch 3 maybe shows too much roof, and I like the columns in sketch 4

good luck with it, looks very promising! :thumbsup:

El Toro
10-26-2004, 07:26 PM
Really nice sketches! You really have a nice drawing style, good luck on the contest! :thumbsup:

andreasrocha
10-29-2004, 01:20 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099009213_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099009213_large.jpg)

Well, I ended up choosing the hangar image with the city in the back. It'll be the classic invading alien scene. I want the setting to be on a really dark rainy day, with glimpses of a red sunset, to infuse some drama to the image. I think the darkest areas of the hangar in the back, will contrast nicely with the sunlight in the front, where the main conflict of the scene will take place. The eye then "spirals" to the smaller invading spaceships, then to the city and finally to the motherships.
The use of a 3D render to help me out with perspective and light will surely be considered as "cheating" by many. For me it is a tool to test different layouts, and to help me out with perspective. I'll be drawing the main line art on top of a light print of the render...It's the first time I do this, so let's see what happens.
Comments most welcome.

element5
10-29-2004, 05:27 AM
cool idea to get use 3D model to get your perspective. :)

Speaky
10-29-2004, 08:43 AM
Hi Andreas, I think you made the right choice to go with the hangar one - it's the one with the most drama and story potential I feel. :thumbsup:

You make an interesting point about using a 3D render. Personally I don't see it as cheating since you obviously already have your perspective skills. It's more of a shortcut. For those who still need to learn perspective, I still don't think it's cheating, but they will be missing out on learning something which is quite simple conceptually and very rewarding to put into practice. Just my two pence.

Peddy
10-29-2004, 08:47 AM
its very handy being able to grab the scene at any time and just fool around with varying camera angles. many people stay stuck in one or two angles simply because its a lot of effort sometimes =].

pm_ceglowski
10-29-2004, 04:28 PM
Very nice sketches and concept, hope to see more soon.
Great job!

Hillartsympho
10-29-2004, 06:05 PM
hey, I like your direction, this is kind of an odd comment, but have you ever been to Rome? the massive hangar reminds me a little bit of the Roma Termini Train station (i'm in Rome for art school now)
using a 3d render is part of your process. you made it so its all your work. It gives you a different way of looking at whe you're doing and can help you with the composition of teh final painting. I think using different techniques/ media is a good thing.

andreasrocha
10-30-2004, 09:59 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099169954_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099169954_large.jpg)

After doing a print of a light version of the render I started drawing over it with pencils. There are things I like and things I don't like in here. I think that what I'll do is make different pencil versions refining some parts and then later I will take the best parts of each and combine them in Photoshop.
My neckmuscles hurt of drawing with pencils and paper, and looking down onto the table instead of looking at a screen when drawing with the tablet. I wasn't used to that...

AirbORn
10-31-2004, 12:01 AM
It is starting to feel very huge and grand. I was thinking of using the same technique that you are using to approach the line drawing. :)

windowlicker
10-31-2004, 12:07 AM
This all looks very interesting so far, and I have no crits concerning design and style. The only thing I'd like to say is "don't overload the image". In your last sketch you leave practicly no spaces empty. I think the image would benefit from a clear focus.

:beer:

Bishoppess of Death
10-31-2004, 01:25 AM
Nice line work here. The concept it really coming together nice. I always will evey those with talent in the architectual areas. Pooh.

techart
10-31-2004, 08:00 AM
it's cool that you use other elemets to help you with the perspective and lighting but I think also to ask somebody fpr that...someone my think is unfair...just in order not to have a bad surprise....nice lines and nice choise for the last composition..cheers tech

PetriJ
10-31-2004, 08:54 AM
Lookin very good, so far. This one is going to be probably on top 10, i guess..
(While mine entry in top 30-40)

Good work man, keep it up.

andreasrocha
10-31-2004, 11:01 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099220494_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099220494_large.jpg)

Finished the first general line art stage. I tried to detail everything a bit so I know where I can play with silhouettes, where I can leave things in shadow, where I need and where I don't need detail. I think I will still make some concept sketches for the mothership, the invader fighters and some spaceships in the hangar.

Windowlicker, you are absoluetly right. I must be careful not to "fill" the image. I think that is where the coloring stage will play a main role (eagerly waiting for that part of the process). The cityscape below will be mostly dark colors with some burning areas and some sunset highlights. The city skyline and the motherships will mainly be defined by silhouettes and some internal lighting with bright spots. The back of the hangar will also be defined by silhouettes and occasional "bright spots". What will be really detailed is the front of the hangar and some of the front invading attack ships.

I hope that if I accomplish my intentions, the image will be pleasing to the eye and not tiring. But until there I can still get lots of comments from you guys to improve my work.

Speaky
10-31-2004, 04:13 PM
Oh yes, it's looking very nice indeed. I reckon you've balanced it out nicely, and there are ways of balancing out the 'weight' of details so I don't think the detailed cityscape will give you a problem. It's grand, it's epic... very promising! :thumbsup:

element5
11-01-2004, 01:48 AM
:applause: no crits from me...

Olve
11-01-2004, 01:58 AM
:thumbsup:

It is, in my eyes at least, a little messy in the top left corner.
Perhaps you should clean up a bit, starting with moving the floating round thing a bit more to the left and see how that looks? Maybe I'm wrong....
But apart from that I think it looks very good!

NinjaA55N
11-02-2004, 10:30 AM
Very nice composition and everything.. lots of happening in ur piece, what I like the most. I cant wait to see which colors u will choose. Keep up the good work!

andreasrocha
11-03-2004, 12:48 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099442907_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099442907_large.jpg)

Finally I got to the coloring stage. This one was done in Painter, in about 20 mins. I like to keep the time down, so I will concentrate on the overall image and harmony of colors. I don't know if this one is too colorful...All the details from the lineart are gone, but that is because I was just worrying about color. I'll get the detail back in later. Comments welcome.

KOryH
11-03-2004, 01:36 AM
hey this one will be cool.
I can't wait to see your progress.

ered dium
11-03-2004, 02:07 AM
Very nice concept, It's a good work. I want to se your next image

ralphmanning
11-03-2004, 03:00 AM
Wow, this is looking very promising indeed. I see a lot of potential here. I really loved the final line drawing, it looked great, Well done.

As for the colour. Yes, I like what you’ve done on this first test, the colour work very well together and it is pleasing to look at. No denying that. However the colours are quite earthy and natural. Which I feel plays a big part in distracting from the futuristic, sci-fi, space etc theme in this scene. In fact the collection of colours you have here remind me a lot of war and battle, I think because it reminds me of the stereotypical camouflage colours on old war aeroplanes etc. Personally I think this is a bad move, all I tend to think of is past or current times. When I looked at the line drawing before I saw this colour test, I thought of, what I expect most people would, shiny metallic spacecraft, dark grey or black parts etc. All a bit clichéd I know, but the strong colours would more likely come from light sources in the scene, such as lights on the spacecrafts, the city in the background, lasers, traffic beacons etc. Looking forward to seeing what your other colour ideas are. Good luck.

andreasrocha
11-04-2004, 12:13 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099527207_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099527207_large.jpg)

Started the colors all over. Perhaps it's too dark, but there is still a long way to go. I kept the linework on top of the color layer. I will merge both layers later on, and remove/integrate the outlines.

Kadastrophic
11-04-2004, 01:04 AM
I like the depth of this last images really draws you in.

V_Shane
11-04-2004, 01:29 AM
Very cool piece your designs are nice movement is great..

Fahrija
11-04-2004, 12:12 PM
Hi andreasrocha,

I like the development the picture made since the first 3D environment image. It´s not so bad that the picture is a bit dark at this point. It´s much easier to lighten the parts than vice versa. The arrangement maybe will make some problems because at the left side is a lot of action and at the right side you have the hangar with less action. It could be nessecary to integrate the right part of the image into the action. > some ships are gonna prepared for starting or something like that.

Greetings

Bishoppess of Death
11-04-2004, 09:42 PM
I like the warm lighting here. And I congradulate you on your ability to understand Painter.

giza-di
11-05-2004, 12:12 AM
Wow, this is looking very promising indeed. I see a lot of potential here. I really loved the final line drawing, it looked great, Well done.

As for the colour. Yes, I like what you’ve done on this first test, the colour work very well together and it is pleasing to look at. No denying that. However the colours are quite earthy and natural. Which I feel plays a big part in distracting from the futuristic, sci-fi, space etc theme in this scene. In fact the collection of colours you have here remind me a lot of war and battle, I think because it reminds me of the stereotypical camouflage colours on old war aeroplanes etc. Personally I think this is a bad move, all I tend to think of is past or current times. When I looked at the line drawing before I saw this colour test, I thought of, what I expect most people would, shiny metallic spacecraft, dark grey or black parts etc. All a bit clichéd I know, but the strong colours would more likely come from light sources in the scene, such as lights on the spacecrafts, the city in the background, lasers, traffic beacons etc. Looking forward to seeing what your other colour ideas are. Good luck.
keep to this colour scheme,imo...gleam and chrome plates have been done to death .this last colour wip really reminds me of film noir,kinda 'metropolis' stage. i particularly like the domed architecture elements

andreasrocha
11-05-2004, 12:43 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099615421_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099615421_large.jpg)

I really like this coloring/painting stage of the whole process. Now it starts turning into something.

As you can see, I've enlarged the canvas to the left. I think it looks more balanced now. I'm not really fond of the top front of the hangar. I'll have to do something about that.

sidchagan
11-05-2004, 01:16 AM
Composition is great, and darkening definitely works for it.

element5
11-05-2004, 03:44 AM
very cool image, I see you have much to do so no crits here :thumbsup:

andreasrocha
11-07-2004, 11:32 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099870377_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099870377_large.jpg)

There are some things with this pic that I don't like...Now that I start putting in the details, problems start to show up. Let's see what happens...

Cicinimo
11-07-2004, 11:43 PM
This is looking really fantastic. Your color choices are smooth as cheese, and the composition does a fine job drawing the eye towards the action. One issue that jumps out at me is the saucer shapes behind the buildings. The lost edges, the value contrast, and the simplicity of their shape tends to push them forward and space. Their enormous size isn't well conveyed, and the only reason I know they're huge is because they're placed behind the buildings. Also (and I'm sure you plan on this anyways), the buildings in the distance could use a bit of variation in shape. Looking great though!

Bishoppess of Death
11-08-2004, 03:52 AM
Nice. I especcially like the sky here. I like the second picture better than I did the first. Myself, I would light the big ship in the background up a little more, to define it a bit better. I would also put a little skim of light on the big stack of crates in the front of the hangar. Not as much as the first pic, but the light source seems to call for a bit more light on the top than it has now. Thas all. Shutting up now.

Speaky
11-08-2004, 07:15 AM
Hi Andreas, I haven't checked your thread for a few days and I must say things are looking great here. I think you've settled on a very promising pic and you've got loads of time to polish it until it shines.

I think there's something I prefer about the previous colouring pic, compared with the most recent one. I suspect it's because the new one has a very contrasty bg with the tall skyscrapers being dark and fringed with bright, saturated sunlight. I find my eye goes to this point because the lines converge there when there's no real subject of focus waiting for me. The skyline to the right, behind the structure, looks distant because the buildings are fogged out and I think it might really matters to use this fog on the left. It could be low level haze with the tips of the skyscrapers managing to clear it just, and if you drew the fog down as a vanishing gradient so the nearest buildings of the bg were as dark as they are currently then it would really help give the bg more depth. Also, the foreground fighters and structure would pop right out.

One last thing is the colour is a bit uniform at the moment. With a warm coloured foreground it could be good to make the bg a bit cooler, introducing a very subtle wash of blue over the most distant bits, i.e. the far right bg which lessens in intensity as you come in towards the left. Cool recedes, warm approaches.

Other than those minor points, can't really fault it. Very compelling, I'll make sure to check your thread more often. :thumbsup:

NinjaA55N
11-08-2004, 10:41 AM
It coming along nicely, but its too dark in my opinion. I would lighten the left bottom corner with some city lightenign, which will bring a great contrast to the pic. It is just my suggestion. Maybe u r already planning to do so, but I was away for 5 days now so i didnt manage to read all posts till now. Go on, its a great work! :)

techart
11-08-2004, 06:47 PM
alll compositions are cool but I like the frist one more.....lots of details...great one...cheers

andreasrocha
11-09-2004, 02:23 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099967001_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099967001_large.jpg)

I am starting to get a bit confused...it seems that everything I do, just makes the overall image less readable...I have to find a solution to this problem. I don't think that things are going in the right direction...

greentek
11-09-2004, 03:00 AM
in my humble opinion the first compositions are much more expressive that the last one.. the last one looks somehow senseless..

all sketches are very proficient as compositionally as well as technically except the last one i think..

great stuff overall ! :thumbsup: i like your sketches a lot!
sorry for harsh crit and best of luck! :)

kaparo
11-09-2004, 05:19 AM
Hi, I think, like most of the people around that you had better sketches earlier but all they have a problem to me. You have a stronger triangular shape at the right with the hangar so it takes all the attention (it even has more light over it). The action of the little space ships coming out of the big one loose strenght with the rest. I sugest you to use this strong perspective compositon to construct the "flow" of spaceships from back to front. I even think that one of it must be right in front of us, bigger, an even covering part of the hangar. Overlappping one ship over the hangar can unify the whole composition and add more speed to the moving. Color is great, no coments about it. Good luck!

Ghost_NAVI
11-09-2004, 05:24 AM
how can things not be going well that pics awsome!!

i especially like the cloud texture and and how you can see the sky behing the hanger

how did you do it?.. did you do 3d image them just draw it in PS or something?

ur soo good, its not fair :(

andreasrocha
11-09-2004, 07:49 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099986576_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099986576_large.jpg)

Here is an alternative to the last design. I think, that removing the spaceships and the fumes...and adding a strong haze over the city...things come together.

Perhaps instead of an attacking squadron I could have departing fighters to counterattack the threat appearing among the clouds...just and idea. Still have to figure it out.

Speaky
11-09-2004, 09:23 AM
Hi Andreas, to me it's beginning to read quite a bit better now. You could try making the mist/fog a little more smooth and intense near the horizon and kind of fading away as it approaches the camera. The evenness makes it appear quite vertical, if that makes any sense. The idea of fighters racing out to engage an enemy seems to be much more dramatic, it's worth exploring this.

Don't get disheartened! Keep on with the thoughtful, considered approach and this pic will end up being fantastic.:thumbsup:

element5
11-09-2004, 11:52 AM
Oh yes coming along nicely :thumbsup:

PetriJ
11-09-2004, 12:02 PM
I think the lineart 02 looked much better, than those colored ones. Though that might be just me.
I suggest you to make this more like before sunset type of coloring, I think that'll do it. Good luck.

D pi
11-09-2004, 02:57 PM
It's important to listen to what people have to say, yet at the same time stick to your guns. Let your development be the answer key to your final piece. Work (design) it out early and stick to it when you move to the final. Simplicity and a focal point may help to. Too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the recipe, feel me.

I think of picture making like boxing or fencing... lol even cooking. You start in the gym(market, sketches, research) then you move onto the ring (kitchen, final). You start with jabs, engaging the entire space... you find out the opponent's sweet spot, wear it down(the focal point, main ingredient) than you knock it out. the coup de grace.

And if you lose, you learn, and it's something that you love to do reguardless, right!

it's a win win... take care

D pi

PS. you can listen to your corner ringside, but don't think about it when your in the mix.

robinayles
11-09-2004, 03:12 PM
I think you're making some really good progress here. Color06 is really nice, but I think you need to add back the fighter ships from 04. And the giant ship over the city needs more definition.

The only thing that bothers me about this...and it may be what's nagging at you...what exactly is supposed to take the main focus. My eye can't find a main focal point on which to rest. So the eye keeps circling and circling looking for a place to land. Ask yourself, what is the main point? Are we supposed to get a feeling of doom from the giant ship? Are we supposed to feel the little fighters are up againt huge odds battling with the big ship? You might have covered some of this in earlier on, I admit I didn't read the entire thread, just thumbed through the progress of your sketches. I also kind of wonder why we are so far removed from the guys on the right side. They look like ants and we can't get a sense of their feelings.

Anyway, its looking good - can't wait to see where you take it next! Keep going!

andreasrocha
11-09-2004, 07:51 PM
Thanks robinayles and D pi...great advice!

andreasrocha
11-10-2004, 07:38 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100072293_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100072293_large.jpg)

Changed some things here...and I think they worked out for the best. I decided to give the image more space and more relevance to the cityscape. There was a conflict somehow and I didn't know where it was coming from. So I reduced/removed the hangar. But I still have the same problem now...where to put the invading army. But now I have more space to introduce them (if I introduce them, that is). In time the solution will present itself.

I put two variations here:

Variation A is still a bit confusing because you cannot really make out the figures. But I think that can easily be mended by dimming the background behind them. I like this one, because it introduces characters and gives some scale to the whole thing.

Variation B is a continuation of the initial hangar idea, however, I gave it much less relevance and I think it works out. I like this one, too, because everything looks clear, and you can really appreciate the sight of the city. What does not work so well, is "Where the hell does this hangar come from?" You can always find an explanation, but I want it to be a visual one. Right now, it seems like the hangar is coming from nowhere. However, I think the image looks balanced this way. I just have to make a link between the city and the hangar. I'm sure this solution will also present itself in time.

I would like to hear some opinions as to what course to take.

Thanks everybody for the ongoing comments and support.

phoenixomen
11-10-2004, 08:21 AM
I'm not an expert in regards to compositions or anything. But I personally think it'd be great if you combined the elements of both your last Variation A & B. Perhaps have a solitary figure standing at the rails of the platform on the Bottom Left Corner looking out over the city. Maybe I'm just a romantic!! Anyway, I think your ideas are great. Also maybe you could lighten the shadows and clouds a little. Or maybe I just have a bad monitor. Nothiing personal by my comments, all the best and you're doing really well. Wish I could draw like you. Keep up the good work.

Alex!!!

element5
11-10-2004, 08:30 AM
I'm not an expert in regards to compositions or anything. But I personally think it'd be great if you combined the elements of both your last Variation A & B. Perhaps have a solitary figure standing at the rails of the platform on the Bottom Left Corner looking out over the city. Maybe I'm just a romantic!! Anyway, I think your ideas are great. Also maybe you could lighten the shadows and clouds a little. Or maybe I just have a bad monitor. Nothiing personal by my comments, all the best and you're doing really well. Wish I could draw like you. Keep up the good work.

Alex!!!
I agree with this, You could have the fighters coming between the tower and the hanger. Also the tower could be to scale of the hanger or brought right up close to us the viewer so we can see the reaction of the guys in the tower....just a thought keep up the cool work :thumbsup:

andreasrocha
11-11-2004, 01:34 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100136870_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100136870_large.jpg)

I went for variation A, since variation B had a floating hangar that was more a collage than something integral of the whole design (there goes the hangar and the initial idea). I added some huge alien spaceships approaching the city among the dark threatening clouds. The platform with the figures was turned into an outpost turret, which repeats into the distance.

I think that my main ingredients here are the light which creates some strong dramatic light/shadow situations and the tension between the calm, peaceful city and the approaching gigantic spaceship. Still have to think of a way to make the latter look more threatening.

Claireabella
11-11-2004, 07:57 AM
Hi Andreas. Your pic caught my eye as I was looking through the entries. I really like the lighting and the overall effect. I agree with your comment about making the spaceships look more threatening - what about swarms of mini fighters or someting leaving a docking bay or leading the ships in? Will keep watching and good luck. :) Claireabella

bolchover
11-11-2004, 12:07 PM
nice image; the idea is rather independence day (huge spaceships shrouded in cloud) or maybe hitchikers guide to galaxy (they hang in the air exactly the way bricks don't). But anyhow, looks really good!

greentek
11-11-2004, 05:35 PM
great improvements.. in my opinion last sketch is the best one.. strong sense of a threat and tension.. especially i like flying away birds in the backgrounda.. great atmosphere..:thumbsup:

SteveNewport
11-11-2004, 06:10 PM
You're really doing a great job with everything. It's very hard to critique some pieces because there's so much good going on in them as well! But, I know that the best things come from critique so hears the only things I could suggest as of now.

It seems like you are going for a very grand sense of height in this image, and I think the effect would be more easily achieved if you added some atmospheric fading to the top of the largest building. Or better yet, maybe even cut part of it off due to the fact that it is so large it's jutting up through the clouds. I mean, yea, the tower is many times higher than most of the other buildings, but the fact that the clouds are still higher than that one takes away from some of the potential it has. Play around with it and see if it comes across the way I'm explaining!

Another thing. I can't entirely tell because it is, at the moment, a kind of rough sketch, but it seems like the shadows of the buildings on the lake and those of the people in the turret tower don't line up. The shadows of the buildings on the lake are perfectly parallel to the horizon, and the shadows of the people seem to be coming towards the viewer. The sun would have to be completely, all the way to the viewers left to project the parallel shadows of the building, OR The sun would have to be very close to the top left of the picture to project the figure's shadows. Granted, with one light source, their two shadows would be slightly different lining up with with the shadow-light vanishing point, but I don't believe these to are entirely correct. I'm providing a picture to kind of help get across what I'm trying to say, but it's very rough, hard to explain with all the lines and stuff. But basically, you use the light source and the point directly below the light source on the horizon line (shadow vanishing point) to determine an objects shadow. There's usually 2 lines coming from the vanishing point for each object, for every curve and such, but my illustration's already cluttered the way it is! I guessed on where you have the light source at, so my illustration may not be entirely correct, but it will at least get across what I'm triyng to say
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/stevenewport/Untitled-1.jpg


And last, usually a large body of water doesn't retain the same color as it recedes to the horizon line. It usually gets darker, and maybe slightly towards the end a little lighter because of the atmospheric fading, but very slightly. It looks fine now, but I think it would be worth some experimentation, maybe look up a few more referance pics.

Great piece! I'm nagging over the little things that won't make or break the piece, but I believe it will make it a little more dynamic and convincing. I really look forward to your development of the piece!

okjoss
11-11-2004, 06:30 PM
well. I don't speak to much english but I will try to say this, becouse you are a great artis and sometimes artis need all the opinion...

I like the one whith the hangar... and the city... becouse it's more impresive.. and gives a sense of gigant futuristic city... I was thinking about the problem on the imagen.. and I think the problem is the light, to much atention in the left.. and then.. the hangar... try to take my atention to him.. (hope you understand this)... I think that if you use the ligh on the right the image will have a nice valance. and the angar will looke like is floating!...

I think there is to much smoke on the image.. and to litle destruction... I don't think more destruction will help... but lest smoke. and whit a clean image.. you can work whith more detail.

this is only my opinion, hoping to help.

please excuse my english..
and hope you came out whit this great! idea!

joss

NinjaA55N
11-12-2004, 05:45 PM
I think u could use something from ur skettch A and B, combine it and get a right choise.. like many users told u before me. I think u could use a "tower" from a sketch A and fit it into the sketch B, somewere in the middle distance (more in the back that its shown in sketch A) in the left side of the pic. Thats how u'll create a first plan, the most interesting point in the picture (that will be a hangar in the right), a middleground with a tower in the left, and a background with all those high buildings. For more dynamical feeling add some flyingships. Just my opinion... Even if I didnt help a bit, have to say that u r working on a great piece of art here!

melkao
11-12-2004, 07:02 PM
hey thats beatiful, an escenary very starwars

congratulations you are very good:thumbsup:

andreasrocha
11-13-2004, 02:46 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100357186_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100357186_large.jpg)

Introduced some colours to make things a bit more interesting. However, I don't know if I went too far. Perhaps I'll go back to the previous step. I'll have to think about it...

walrus
11-13-2004, 03:15 PM
Wow! I really like where you've taken that last piece. The coloring, especially the contrast between the "native" and the "invading" is really strong. Did you "go too far?" Maybe just a little... Or maybe you just need a more gradual transition. I like the blue because it contrasts so with the orange, and yet at the same time, the interface is a bit sharp. But i have no doubt that you'll find a good balance. Btw, did you try any other colors? Green could look really creepy too, don't you think?

One other small note: now the figures on the left - which I really like to bring the human scale back in - seem rather calm. How would they react to such a sight?

anyhow, best of luck! I look forward to seeing more.

-mike

giza-di
11-13-2004, 04:22 PM
awesome overall, i would go a srep further and add some reflection on the sea(?), right part of image to reduce flatness:thumbsup:

sidchagan
11-13-2004, 10:38 PM
Dont go back- the colors you've added arount loud, and they inject a lot more life into the drawing without looking cheesy.
This scene has a much grander feel to it than the previous steps too.

Rui_Padinha
11-14-2004, 09:16 PM
Hello Andy!

Went too far? Are you kidding... now you're really getting there! I just think you could scatter the effect trough the clouds a bit more.

It would also be cool if you invested in the "Ships bringing the storm" motif, and really painted some real dark stormy cloudscape on the top right portion of the image... just a tought.

Anyway, truly great stuff mate :thumbsup:

andreasrocha
11-14-2004, 11:34 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100475248_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100475248_large.jpg)

Another step...this seems to be going on and on...but what I really like, is that I am enjoying myself more and more.

I always consider everybody's suggestions and I implement some of them...so, keep commenting please. It really helps.

Now I am starting the detail rendering phase, since I am happy with all the major elements' position, scale and color. Eventually I will make some minor adjustments, but the main strutcture is there. Spent some time rendering the clouds around the spaceship's center using some photos as reference that I had taken during a thunderstorm. The reflections on the sea suggested by giza-di worked out great. Thanks man...and thanks to Rui for the great thunderstorm clouds suggestion.

Until the next update...

ButchMakora
11-15-2004, 08:41 AM
my own perception - that previous version of ships in the sky was better. reason? well - last version is out of composition, is out of total picture mood. everything can be grey, or may be you wish to show us the salvation? i think that latest version of ship is too much optimistic and lightened. previous was better.

element5
11-15-2004, 09:47 AM
Wow a new direction, I do like it no crits from me :thumbsup:

Tranchefeux
11-15-2004, 11:28 AM
Hi, Your last station is really cool.

ChrisThatGuy
11-15-2004, 07:03 PM
i think that latest version of ship is too much optimistic and lightened. previous was better.
Maybe just try making the lights from the ship a little less intense? They do seem a bit too 'overexposed' for the mood of the piece.

twhiteart
11-16-2004, 03:32 AM
I have watched you progress with each step and I am loving it! My only suggestion is to tone down the white light and bring back a little more of the purple color lighting. I think it helps add to the drama of the scene. I would try to keep the white light focused on the main beam comming out of the ship. I look forward as always to your next post.

pBarrelas
11-16-2004, 12:16 PM
Let me tell you that i'm really liking your WIP!! I think that you have great drawing skills! Are you using a Wacom for your digital drawing? Keep on dude!! Di you study Architecture?...heh heh!!

Bom trabalho!!:thumbsup:

HiPcCuP23
11-16-2004, 06:14 PM
EXCELENT piece.Only thing i can dare to suggest is that you shold work on light that come from ships a bit.To be more concrete i thing that it would be fine to add some light berfore second ship.With lights in present form it reminds me ship that is on fire.

andreasrocha
11-17-2004, 01:26 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100654795_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100654795_large.jpg)

I am seeing some really awesome work appear on this challenge and I'm starting to feel a bit discouraged...but at the same time I feel that I must try and do as good as the others.

Well...I did some heavy rendering on the clouds and the sea, trying to infuse the image with feelings of threat and opression. I'm going for a low, heavy-clouded sky overhanging a restless sea. You should feel like something is about to happen. I still have to do something about those motherships. They look too peaceful! Perhaps turn the pink/purple glow into the cliche red?

Suggestions to make this invasion more threatening are most welcome.

OKMER
11-17-2004, 01:50 AM
Hé when I see your drawing there there is no reason at all to discourage!!!

It's got a great atmosphere and indeed that maybe the cliché red lights could be more evil.

Your colorscheme is already quit into the oranges/brown's etc.So indeed it could be cool to have some red.I would maybe keep some pink into it anyway to not stay to much into the same colorscheme anyway.

Anyhow,your sketches are really nice and living,and your image rocks.Indeed we've got this heavy feeling of something dont' smell good about what is going to happen(sorry for my english :-/)

I sign up for this thread,eyes shut :-) (eyes very open!!!)

My grint spacepra:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=184953

pBarrelas
11-17-2004, 01:57 AM
I think that you're right for turning the light color into red, but i alsow think that you should try a diferent ship design to turn those ships into a more threatning ones!! At the moment those ships are looking like they are simply passing by for holydays!!

Manoo77
11-17-2004, 02:32 AM
Hi Andreas,

Even though this is my first post, I've been watching your entries, and I can honestly say,that altough you've been struggling with your idea a bit, you have great talent with your e-brush ;)

I like the ideia of dividing the frame, half peaceful, half menacing. That said, I also think you should change the invading ships' design to something more hostile, especially that tip...
As for the color, I suggest a dark blue, perhaps with a slight dash of purple. I agree with some of the other posts, light should be dimmer, except maybe for the tip (is it going to fire some sort of beam? very ID4 ;)

I'm curious to see how this is gonna turn out...

Um abraço
Manoo

Speaky
11-17-2004, 08:17 AM
Hey Andreas! Your pic is really coming together. Did you notice that the CGNetworks email newsletter used your pic to illustrate the mini article on the GSO challenge? You must be on the right track then, be proud of it! :thumbsup:

As to feeling discouraged, try to aim higher than you believe is possible. You will surprise yourself at how you meet the challenge. Focus on your own strengths and style. Always learn and try something new. Enjoy what you do. This way you always win!

As to making your spacecraft more threatening, not sure. What I get from your pic is the feeling that a great unknowing time of peace and security is about to be torn apart by the arrival of the aliens. Play up the fear on the lone observer, are they the first and only witnesses to this ominous arrival? You could crank up the attack factor by giving the spacecraft a central thrust beam which is boiling up the sea below them, maybe a subtle searchlight or two to act as roving 'eyes'. One last thing, the ships don't 'seem' big enough to me, I think due to the simplicity of their form. Maybe some implied detail would sort this out. In general, though, it's a great image!

:zepedro:
11-17-2004, 11:51 AM
Hi andreasrocha

I really like what you´re doing where, beautiful oranges on the atmosphere and that dark sea is wonderful :thumbsup:
I particularly love the sense this image gives, that something big, almost biblical, is arising!
Maybe you should also try some different colors instead of red in that spacecraft... a bright blue, to contrast with the amber colors maybe... it could be interesting the comparison between the warm, antique feel of the world and the tech, "new", cold tone of the alien ship... just my two cents anyway.

Please don't give up on this image, its coming along great.
Following this one ;)

*A imagem está fantástica, espero que consigas reuinir forças e inspiração para continuar :)

greets

Fahrija
11-17-2004, 12:48 PM
Hi andreasrocha,

I´m really surprised that you are dicouraged about your development. There´s no reason at all.

Some suggestions:
To underline the massive scale of the space ship I would try to render some more parts of it around the center object> that give the impression that a big space ship is coming from upside and those parts you see are just the tip the iceberg. I also would ad some backlight coming from left to the buildings along the shore as you did in the foreground object just to fetch back the environment a bit.
Speaky is right > to underline the action it could be useful to show the influence the entrance into the atmosphere has. > the water gets troubeld > or the wind gets stronger - you can indicate that by the clothes and hair of the characters they streaming a bit to the left.

I hope that helps > so keep up and don´t worry :)

Greetings
Fahrija

LuisNCT
11-17-2004, 01:08 PM
With the skill level that denotes your artwork i think that you don't have to be discouraged at all. Great work and great idea. I love the lightning effect in the clouds.

BloodTaster
11-17-2004, 03:22 PM
Man, there is no reason for your discouraged, this pic simply rocks!!:buttrock:
I agree, with the others, maybe you can try a more evil design on the ships ..and make appear really big!, with more parts coming out of the clouds. Maybe a little ships around the big ones, i don't know. Great work so far!
just keep up:thumbsup:

bigjoe
11-17-2004, 03:46 PM
I agree with Bloodtaster: possibly a bit more angular of a design, because the mood of the ships arrival is a bit ambiguous. If you are going for threatening or even "evil" just a small hint of evilness can go a long way. Red glows arent necessarily the way to go but maybe simulate some kind of "dark-matter" coming off of the ships or the angularity of the design. The sharp edges can convey more "edginess" if you know what I mean. My Challenge pic currently uses reddish glows to convey evil so I maybe I should listen to my own advice heh. It looks great so far keep it up!

melkao
11-17-2004, 03:49 PM
it looks better than last time. looks good , is something like "independence day" ( the movie)
when the aliens go into the planet breaking the clouds. an escene very fantastic.

keep going boy!

HiPcCuP23
11-17-2004, 04:11 PM
I don't know.I thing that ship's design + purple clouds are fine.Designs of ships has kind of promise inside (most likely promise of threat :) + i thing that red clouds would little ruin harmony of picture.(In matter of colour).

P.S. I thing that your work is clear candidate to high ranks,so you really don't have to give up.

BlueEyeLizard
11-17-2004, 05:08 PM
Wonderful scene. I’m not sure if I like those bright pinkish purple colored lights. I think it's distracting from the overall piece too much. I love the way it's reflecting off the ocean. Maybe experiment with other colors. I think you need a bright color there, just not purple. It seems too far from the color scheme already established. Awesome! Awesome! Awesome. I also like the ships as is, I like the comment about making the onlookers more frightened and panicked.

Arctis
11-17-2004, 07:11 PM
Nice stuff, and absolutly no reason to be discouraged (though doubt is sometimes a good friend of the artist...)
Maybe it would be more dramatic - I've read that's what you're looking for- with red colors, and also if it was only lights above the clouds : the fact that we could not even describe that "presence" makes it totally unknown, therefore frightening. It would create an opposition between two worlds : 1/ world of the city, solid and well identified (bottom/left) ; 2/ world of the threat, foggy, blurred, difficult to describe (top/right).
Good luck !

My space opera (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=185203)

NinjaA55N
11-17-2004, 10:43 PM
A very good direction! Go on! :)

fiftyfive
11-18-2004, 05:21 AM
dont feel discouraged bro, that rocks, i love it. keep it up man. cool conecpt. mabie give a little purple relflection comin off the buildings in the slightest way but that is sweet.

Androgs
11-18-2004, 05:47 AM
man..I'm really didn't found the reason why you have to discouraged:). your work is great!! I think purple is already fine, but if you want to experiment some more, we also want to see it of course. Good luck !

Tranchefeux
11-20-2004, 06:35 PM
Hi, Always cool your progression there is not small to dimension
film "Independence day"?

SideAche
11-20-2004, 06:48 PM
I like the cool violets coming through. It creates a nice contrast to the warms in the evironment. I'm afrais that if you went warm with the light, you might lose some of the strong since of emphasis. I like it, though I do agree that the ship can possibly be modified. Thats nit-picky though. It's looking great :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

V_Shane
11-20-2004, 06:55 PM
Nice color seperation of story elements. Be great if you could make the clouds more "boiling" around the ships so they appear to be moving the clouds like a shark fin on waters surface.

andreasrocha
11-21-2004, 01:12 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100999554_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1100999554_large.jpg)

Probably going backwards with this one.

One thing that has been bothering me since the beginning, was the whole influence of "Independence Day" in this image. Although it wasn't intentional it is clearly there, and I wouldn't like to go in that direction.

Some of you referred to the purple glow not working too well and the spaceship needing more definition. Well, I decided to go for some evil, poisonous green, and big industrial spaceships. They are supposed to mimic sharks with their fins out of the water but upside down. The spaceships in the background need a lot of work still, but you can already get an idea what they will look like from the more detailed spaceship in the middle. I also wanted to introduce some motion, hence the trails and the triangular format of the spaceships.

The nearest spaceship (right edge of the picture) doesn't look good yet. I don't know if I'll keep it.

What I would like to know now is your opinion about these changes. Try to imagine the whole sky full of these "sharklike" spaceships. Tell me what you think of these changes. I can easily go back to the previous stage and continue from there.

Thanks for all the comments. Your support is very much appreciated.

kaparo
11-21-2004, 03:08 AM
Hi Andreas

I´ve been comparing your last posts. I think that you get the feeling of something that is going to happen. I can feel it and it is great. But there is something I dont like in the spaceships. If you want some alien like ships, I prefer the round lighting ship. The new green ones look to much as a single human factory. They dont have this mysterious, strange, alien feeling. When I think in alien ships I always think in something very different from human engineering. I am thinking right now in "Abyss", the movie for example. I think you could rescue the idea of something dark misted in the clouds. The shark fin idea is great but I imagine something strange behind this.

elmasfeo
11-21-2004, 12:20 PM
I like a lot the idea of the shark fins, maybe you could give some backwards curvature to the ships, to make it more shark-like... and I'm not sure abour the greenish glow, it looks a bit strange to me

anyway, you are meking great work here, good luck!

Arctis
11-21-2004, 12:51 PM
Hi Andreasrocha,
I totally agree with Kaparo : something more mysterious would be stronger, though the idea of shark's fins is good.
Very clean work on the waves ! :thumbsup:

My space opera (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=185203&page=2&pp=15)

pBarrelas
11-21-2004, 12:59 PM
Hi Andreasrocha,
I totally agree with Kaparo : something more mysterious would be stronger, though the idea of shark's fins is good.
Very clean work on the waves ! :thumbsup:
It seems that you already have the right formula!

Parabéns pela tua imagem ter sido publicada na última newsletter!!:thumbsup:

element5
11-21-2004, 10:59 PM
I agree the latest ships dont work, the ships you had before work for me. The waves look cool but maybe too big compared to the buildings on the coast....AAAHHHH!! tidle wave grab the surfboards guys....keep up the good work :)

ButchMakora
11-22-2004, 07:50 AM
and i think that latest version of the ships is better and fits the total composition. nice mood. now it looks not so good 'cause of color of the ships. change the colors - and it'll be the best.

LuisNCT
11-22-2004, 03:24 PM
I like very much the idea of the sharks' fins even though the previous comp(the purple glows one) don't displease me at all

Fahrija
11-22-2004, 04:25 PM
Hi andreas,

I would still prefer working on the previous composition because now the vertical ships break in the horizontal arrangement. The green colour is a bit to contrarian to the clolor scheme of the environment which you ´ve established very well.

Keep up, mate

Greetings
Fahrija

walrus
11-22-2004, 04:45 PM
I like the switch to green, 'thought purple worked for me as well. While I can understand wanting to veer away from looking like 'Independance Day,' the last mock-up had such large, simple ships that they grabbed you intantly and now, I kind of find myself struggling to make out what is going on. Partly it's because these new ships are much darker, not a mass of light like the last ones. But it could also have to do with the quantity of them: The last image had a fer large ships, and this feel like more numerous, smaller ships because of the sheer number of "fins." Have you tried going with fewer ones?

Best of luck!

-mike

KaleN
11-22-2004, 04:51 PM
Looks graet! I like the green glow and shark concept however i think that it isn't enough obvious that this are shark fins.

andreasrocha
11-23-2004, 02:04 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1101175479_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1101175479_large.jpg)

I think I'm back on track again with this one. The "fin-ships" weren't working, since they broke up the horizontal feeling of the whole image to much (as pointed out by Fahrija...thanks). And also, the majority of you liked the saucer-like solution better so I went back to that one. I gave up, trying to escape Independance Day.

I gave the downward tip a less conical shape to make it look more cylindrical, making it look heavier, more agressive. And the circular spotlights are supposed to mimic green treacherous spider eyes (I know they don't have eyes like that, but somehow they remind me of that). The fume dropping from the bottom of the spaceship looks almost venomous.

Fire away your comments, please!

SideAche
11-23-2004, 02:11 AM
I think this one looks great. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

BloodTaster
11-23-2004, 12:03 PM
hey dude, this last one (for me) is the best one...continue in this way (my opinion):thumbsup:

uwil
11-26-2004, 09:31 PM
simply eyecandy! the cloud work makes the scene massive...love those some flocks details too. good luck Andreas.:applause:

Rui_Padinha
11-26-2004, 11:34 PM
Hey Andi!

Three days with no new posts now... I can't wait anymore! Come on, let's get those creative gears going...

Então pá? Andamos a dormir ou quê? Drjj - Drrj -Ptrjj!!! Ok, ok, tu bem mereces um descanso... bom fim-de-semana :thumbsup:

pBarrelas
11-27-2004, 03:15 AM
Yeah!! I think that you're going on the right direction, defenately!! I really like your last ship design and mood that it's giving to the whole scene is very cool!!


Continua com este bom trabalho e de certeza que, no final, serás recompensado!!:thumbsup:

andreasrocha
11-28-2004, 12:04 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1101643477_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1101643477_large.jpg)

It seems like I haven't posted anything here in ages. It's getting more timeconsuming now, but also more interesting. Luckily I had some time to work on this.

I'm entering the final coloring stage, but there is still a lot of work to be done (don't really know what the difference is between Final Coloring and Color WIP).

I gave the sky some richer warmer colors (heavy use of the color dodge mode...I love it). I think I will have to give the right part of the sky some of its definition back...looks too blurred.

I also worked quite a bit on the sea with some blurred reflections in the back.

The city also got more buildings making it look more cluttered, overcrowded, but I still don't think it is enough.

I made the spaceship more flat...The idea is also to make it look like it has some huge green eyes and that the lower part is a breathing mouth. I believe that giving it more character will end up making it more threatening.

Cheers...

KaleN
11-28-2004, 01:26 PM
Great! The mood is great. You can realy feel that something terrible is going to happen. My illustraction looks so miserable compared to yours :( Can't wait to see final version!!

EVIL
11-28-2004, 03:07 PM
I love it, It reminds me of the parts in independance day when the spaceships enter earth's atmosfere, covered in a big cloud, or close encounter of the third kind when the ships come from the clouds eluminating them. I love the poision green you used, its a great contrast to the warmer orange colours and it gives the whole thing a more eery scary feeling to it, really alien like. If I would see these things greaking free slowly from the cloud's I would have been scared as hell

Love it!

anyway, how did you do the whole http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1099009213_medium.jpg
See how it loozes contrast and saturation when objects are further away, just wondering how you did that

thnx, and good luck

sidchagan
11-28-2004, 06:34 PM
This has turned out great so far. Truth be told, I actually thought the purple looked nicer, but the green adds a more dangerous, somewhat toxic look to it, so it works. The detail on the city is fantastic as well.
I like the color tones in the clouds of course.
Very nice work :)

Arctis
11-28-2004, 08:22 PM
Hi,
personnaly, I prefer the ships of your color WIP n#12. On your last update, I find the chamfers of your saucers too visible : the ships look smaller...

BloodTaster
11-28-2004, 09:43 PM
MAN, fantastic! the feeling of somekind of invasion,it's well done represented..
nothing to say! :eek:

Claireabella
11-28-2004, 09:51 PM
Just had to come back and check on any new posts - it's looking great! :) Claireabella

Fahrija
11-28-2004, 10:41 PM
Hi Andreas,

Your picture turns out very well. Especially the ocean and the cityscape develop extraordinary from post to post. Great. :)

In my opinion the only thing that makes still a bit trouble is the green color. Maybe it could be an idea to vary the color range a little bit. In the center of the gear could be a white/yellow lightning > this light has effect on the brown color of the space ship >this gets lighten up a bit. And when the energy of the gear band together with the atmosphere you have your green clouds. This shows that it poisens the environment. In addition you indicate that this encounter is not harmless.

If you don´t mind I placed a link below. It´s for showing what I mean by vary the color.
< example > (http://www.studioambrozus.de/cgtalk/yourpicture.jpg)

Greetings
Fahrija

andreasrocha
11-28-2004, 11:38 PM
Thanks everybody for the positive comments.

KaleN Your entry is awesome and full of character. Don't be so hard on yourself.

EVIL I know it looks like Independance Day. That is the main thing I don't like about my image. Too much clichés everywhere. Instead, what I am aiming for now, is to take all the clichés, and make the image as good a cliché as possible. Thanks for all the comments...you're feeling what I want people to feel with this image. However, I think that there is still a lot I can do to improve this. About the rendering...just used Fog in the Environment...no biggy...

sidchagan Thanks, man...difficult to get to a color everybody likes. The glowing green, however, is understood as toxic by most, as you pointed out.

Arctis Don't exactly know what you mean. Perhaps I will have to attenuate contrast and saturation to make the spaceship look farther away.

Thanks Clairebella and BloodTaster.

Fahrija Thanks for the supportive comments. Nice idea about the progressive colors from yellow (near source, pure) to green (spread out, poisonous). I think I'll try it out. But I think this has to be very subtle to work. Thanks for taking the time to show me the example.

daadaa
11-29-2004, 12:08 AM
im really enjoying looking at your painting ... but there is a small thing of the last submission, which is that the disks of the closest ship seems to be.... well they dont look right. if you look at the ship as layers of disks... and if the top disk is flat, then the bottom disk seems to be tilting backwards a bit and its a little flatterened at the back... dont know if others see this but just something i kinda picked up...

p.s really hope someone agrees with me here!!... dont wanna look a foul....:P

element5
11-29-2004, 09:28 PM
The composition is looking way better now, some nice effects with the ships and the clouds....:thumbsup:

greentek
11-29-2004, 09:51 PM
hi Andreas..
you may don't care.. your image even nearly doesn't look as good as Independence Day..
all you have is just rough attempts to immitate a grand event..
and it doesn't matter what color you're using for light or so.. do you know why?

because your image is about nothing.. and you are not able to create something worthy.. something expressive..
because you have nothing to tell.. nothing to express.. you are empty as person.. you are a blind..
the self-pride and the self-love are overwhelming and blinding you..
check the thread of Steve Newport to get an idea what is happening with persons like (unfortunately) you are..

i'm very glad that you start to appriciate the replys but take a look at your thread.. how many times you have expressed a gratitude.. do you think every one is obliged to check your thread or all the more to post comments or crits?
your largest reply is dedicated to a stupid person who find nothing better then call himself an evil (and with only capital letters!)..

your work will worth nothing untill you remain in such condition of spiritual emptiness.. and colors and lines can't help you in any way..

i absolutely do not care what you'll think about me after this posting..
but if someday God decides to help you (???) you'll understand that i wish you only well..

andreasrocha
11-29-2004, 09:54 PM
Thank-you very much, Greentek.

Your comments are MOST welcome.

What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.

EVIL
11-29-2004, 10:12 PM
are you two going to fight now :P

daadaa
11-29-2004, 10:13 PM
i dont exactly want to make enemies here, but i would say that i would agree with greentek in some areas.... its a masterpeice of a painting, but it lacks sprit, nothing brings it to life... refereing back to independence day.... the thing that made that special was how the disks entered the atmosphere with balls of fire around it.... etc and the fact that it was humungous.... also about the composition where the disk is comming towards you makes you feel a little scared... (it did to me!! i was 8 at the time!), while in your picture, you watching the crafts go past and it's as if they are not much of a significance to you, and you dont even know they are evil.... tbh, they could even be harvisters returning from a days harvist (green C&C tiberium style)... you need some part of to tell you the exact story within the painting without the need for an explination.

if you dont understand what im talking about, .... ill put it in another way, its like cars.... some cars are engineered to the extreme, but they lack a soul, something that gives them character, like the rolls royce phantom, its got a character... where if you look at the maybach,... its just a very posh car.

i hope i have put it to you in a less abrupt way... and created no greef :)

p.s, the reference to when i was 8 is prolly incorrect, and also i prolly wasnt scared but i can picture my self being scared!

p.p.s wont mention any names but not many ppl around here can do the special touch in their paintings... and defintly not me :P

p.p.p.s:
ill leave you with an extract from the holy grail of all films... pulp fiction (extract is very incorrect but ull know what im on about if uve seen it)

"naa i dont eat pork"
"y dont u eat pork?"
"pigs are filthy animals and i dont eat filthy animals"
"dogs eat their own facies, u consider a dog to be filthy??"
"but dogs have character, and character can go a loonnnnggg way!"

andreasrocha
11-29-2004, 10:35 PM
(double post)

andreasrocha
11-29-2004, 10:35 PM
Greentek maybe right about some things, about the image not being original and not having soul. It is also quite ambiguous about what these spaceships are doing, like daadaa pointed out. HOWEVER, I completely disagree with the way greentek stated his idea. People should treat each other respectfully in this forum, and I didn't sense any bit of respect in his comment. I may not have given the most correct answer to Greentek's comment either, and I assume that, but couldn't stay indifferent to his empty words.

My objective in joining this challenge is PARTICIPATION, giving my best. I do not want to insult anyone!

If Greentek (or any other one) thinks that I do not appreciate your comments (be they compliments or constructive criticism), I appologize for not making people see that. I may not have answered to comments people give me, but I sure considered each and every one of them (except ONE!), and I think that that is visible in the course my image as taken. I will try and give more feedback in the future.

So, I think that's that. Enough bickering and let's get on with the challenge. That's what matters.

daadaa
11-29-2004, 10:46 PM
just something i thought up... a quick little fix is to put a disk covering most of the top and the top right hand corner(as in the disk almost going over the viewer...)(might need to enlarge the canvas a bit) ....
maybe some thrunder storm clouds?? .... lightnings from one of your earlyer concepts would be very impressive...
maybe some smaller ships comming out of the central green "mouth" ??.... (might be a little too independence day style... but hey! :P )
emmm have the green trails so that it looks as if all the ships are going towards one building... prolly the tall one in the background....

i can go on forever so i think ill stop there ... :P

i hope my comment has been helpful :)

p.s "Me it could not be to cagar more for your commentary"???..... bablefish failed me again!!!

Garma
11-29-2004, 11:19 PM
looks great :) Just another thumbsup from me, enough crits have been given.

Nazirull
11-30-2004, 03:04 AM
Man you got the

Scale
Panorama
Grandieur

Its an epic....almost biblical....

Congrats man im definitely subscribing to this thread.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

leho
12-01-2004, 08:24 PM
heavy, really heavy

adonihs
12-01-2004, 10:53 PM
you have balls for drawing a city, along with half of the other community, id never go to that limit..lol, id go insane.

andreasrocha
12-04-2004, 01:31 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1102123859_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1102123859_large.jpg)

First of all I want to thank everybody for commenting my work. It really keeps me going. I already spent so many hours on this (and will spend many more) that I'm beginning to think that I am really slow working! I don't even know if I will be able to work on the image at 100% magnification. It's 5500 pixels wide. It's the biggest image I have ever created.

Well, as you can see, the updates are minor, although they took me about 4 hours or so to make. Anyway, what matters to me is that I am really enjoying doing this, even if it is at a very slow pace.

Introduced some purples in the sky, and developed the overall clouds. The waves also got some detail, and the sea now reflects a richer array of colours. I also dimmed the spaceship a bit, because I think it was too saturated and contrasted for the distance it is at.

hasta...

walrus
12-04-2004, 01:45 AM
It's looking good, Andreas! I like the changes in the water, and with the ships a lot. I especially like how that front ship's form can be seen just barely hidden by the clouds. It gives that ship a weight that it didn't have before. I think you should push that effect with the further back ships as well, i.e. making their outlines a bit more visible... Well, maybe not all of them, but at least that 2nd ship back as well.

I'm also having trouble reading the speckles in the left of the sky that you added an iteration or two ago. Is it dust from the ship? Birds flying away? Hard yet to get a sense of what's up with them.

But anyhow, great work. Way to persevere and keep plugging away at it! Good stuff!

-mike

adonihs
12-04-2004, 02:02 AM
Looking better and better man! No crits here, but just keep pumping this stuff out =D

V_Shane
12-04-2004, 02:51 AM
comp is coming along, but I think (myself anyway) that the ships need to be a bit more visible. The one in the distance gets really lost.

techart
12-04-2004, 11:17 AM
great work so far man..love the concept and the late development....but I think the big ships should be much more detailed..because I think they are the biggest actors here....the city and the whater is absolutely amazing..one thing more...the right clouds seems to me to violet I think ...the pass between the left clouds and the right ones is too quick...try a bigger fade I'll say.....the work is too devided in two as I see right now..is not a bad thing this but try to make them more like one stuff.....is like two images right now in the upper area....the lower one is contrastly amazing :))...excelent work so far my man

Nemein
12-05-2004, 04:38 AM
Hi Andreas!
Just wanted to drop by and say I've loved your work so far, especially your coloring style.

I'd like to say, however, that I prefer the last version of the big space ships you've painted here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1753575&postcount=143)- when they were less disk-like, looking more organic, and almost looking like they were just forming out of the clouds; it just looked so much more original, and far more mysterious.

If you go by the traditional saucer shaped UFO, it just doesn't seem as, well, awe-inspiring (a bit too cliché for my taste). I also liked the denser clouds in the original picture better; it's as if a storm is coming, and it's caused by these things that are almost a part of the clouds themselves.

Hope that helps :)
Good luck!!

draco_1967
12-05-2004, 05:49 AM
All I can say is....WOW! that is beautiful. That city is...is...so cool... I would say you've got a winner there.

W-I-L
12-05-2004, 08:07 AM
hello. some nice stuff . . . very independence day. I think that maybe you should have put the figures on that foreground building even closer so we could see their expressions . . . adding a bit more of a personal touch. Colouiring and city is great, love the clouds and reflection on water.

W-I-L
12-05-2004, 08:09 AM
and don;t worry about being slow...take your time . . . you are way furthur than me... i am not even half way through my concept stage .

DrFx
12-06-2004, 04:29 PM
Olá, Andi, tudo fixe? Sou eu, o Carlos! Fixe encontrar-te por aqui, encontrei este site há pouco e é bue da fixe!!! O teu WIP tá um espectáculo, mas... 5000 pixels!?!? Ok, vou escrever em inglês:

That is a great concept, Andi! What I think would make the spaceships more menacing is if their bases protrude from the clouds some more, like the bottom part of the 5th Element spaceships. It would also be cool if they have more distinct detail than the clouds and maybe project some eerie lighting upon the city, as if scanning for threats or something. I think, a combination of the shark fin idea (but only 2 ships), the bright purple lights (green smoke doesn't quite do it for me), a stark contrast between light and shadow (some earlier drawings had really dark shadows beneath the body of the spaceships) would give it a more menacing look. I think it makes sense from a compositional standpoint that the ships be the counterpoint of the tall buildings, and that they need not reinforce the horizontal-ness of the picture.


As for the figure in the "outpost", I don't understand what it is doing, it seems to be demanding an answer to the spaceships. Maybe you could give it a little twist, like it being scared shitless and running away or being a guardian, with a cannon or something, or even still, worshipping the spaceships like they were deities. Also, regarding perspective, the turret being the first in a row, would probably have to be much bigger, or you should make the other ones smaller.

Good luck with the contest, never mind some "soulless" reviews, add drama and sparkle!

Carlos Félix

andreasrocha
12-06-2004, 07:59 PM
DrFX! Maaan. Tás fixe? Há quanto tempo! Obrigadão pelo post. Long live Nimbus!

Well, Dr. FX. I already considered some of the possibilities you suggested and some I will have to see if I can still implement them. I think that perhaps the searchlight ideas could work. About making changes to the spaceships, it's a bit more complicated...but I still have to see what I can do.

You're right about the figure. But I still haven't gotten to it. The idea is that it is worshipping it in despair or something like it. But it has to be a static action, or one with very little movement involved, to give him a more symbolic stance.

I'll correct the turrets...they are completely out of scale. Or perhaps I'll remove them. Don't know...

Thanks man....CYA

NinjaA55N
12-06-2004, 08:43 PM
Even if i dont comment ur work, im constantly following it with pleasure and must say that u r doing a great job here! Keep posting, im most happy with every new submission from u :)

Fahrija
12-06-2004, 10:04 PM
Hi Andreas,

Very beautiful image. The color at the space ships fits very well and looks much more integrated into the whole image regarding color range and saturation.

Maybe you think you work slow because you concentrate working the whole time at only one image. The picture develops great - I wouldn´t worry about that. I agree about the demanded size. Pretty heavy to integrate details constantly all over the image.

Maybe it could be interesting to revise the roof of the foreground building. It could be a balcony with a retreated top. This could reduce the very dominant shape a little and would give the possibility to establish another character watching straight up into the sky.

Of course the image works fine like it is. Just some notes.

Greetings
Fahrija

CodeNothing
12-07-2004, 02:55 AM
awsome work dude.

The atmosphere looks better now that the greens were dulled down a bit. But i think mabie the closest ship could be just a Little bit brighter.

i also was very sad to see the purple lightning you made in an earlyer post go away, i realy liked it but it would probably be too much in this pic now.


amazing work! your very inspiring! :thumbsup:

Tranchefeux
12-07-2004, 06:05 PM
Hi,
Félicitation pour ton image final. :thumbsup:

andreasrocha
12-08-2004, 01:29 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1102512590_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1102512590_large.jpg)

Worked some more on the sky and the spaceship. I think a more organic look works better, and those huge Verne-like eyes work well, I think. But there is still a lot to go.

Thanks for all the comments as always. Much appreciated!

draco_1967
12-08-2004, 04:51 PM
Yep. that looks better. I really love your composition. You really give a great sense of atmosphere and perspective. keep it up...I'm wathing this one =) so many talented people here....

andreasrocha
12-08-2004, 11:31 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1102548688_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1102548688_large.jpg)

Closeup of the most detailed part of the image at this moment. The spaceship is turning out quite organic (similar to those brown creatures from Attack of the Clones). Hope it works...

Rui_Padinha
12-09-2004, 12:57 AM
Hi there Andi!

Wooow... great work on those ships mate! Congratulations :thumbsup:

E já agora, boas férias! Um abraço...

bolchover
12-09-2004, 04:10 PM
hi, overall image is looking really good. the ships have a very nice atmosphere about them! I wonder whetehr the second spoke from teh top is a bit out of kilter - needs to be longer r deeper (more shadow?). looks slightly wrong. But anyway, very interesting image!

andreasrocha
12-17-2004, 11:07 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103281668_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103281668_large.jpg)

Didn't update for a while because of vacations. Back to work.

I did some overall refining of the clouds, spaceship and sea. I also added a kind of sea-vortex to give the spaceship a more dramatic entrance and also to create a more physical/visible interaction between invaders and invaded. Though, I don't know if it really works...

I created some new brushes to make the sea and cloud textures and I think they worked out, specially when you zoom in. But I am not entirely happy with the clouds. They are still too soft.

Anyway, as always comments are welcome...but first I will have give some comments to earn some.

MDN67
12-17-2004, 11:25 AM
Great, i like the colors, end the definition of the waves of the sea, it's very nice

My 2d challenge page (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=193486)

giocele
12-17-2004, 11:25 AM
the 'sea-vortex' is very very cool!
keep going!:thumbsup:

Branko
12-17-2004, 03:46 PM
Great work on the composition. The bottom left and top right balance eachother very well.
There is almost an arachnid like feeling in the spaceship, because of the multiple saucer lights... excellent mood.

-rasdasa

walrus
12-17-2004, 04:55 PM
Looking good, Andreas! I have to confess, I miss some of the other big ships in the sky, as with post #171. But overall, I like what You've done with the sky and the ships thus far!

-mike

andreasrocha
12-17-2004, 05:02 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103302950_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103302950_large.jpg)

Started to add more detail to the city below. This is a closeup of what I have done so far. I am trying to bring out the city's textural quality without losing its believabilty. I think that that is one of the advantages of portraying cities from above: since you cannot really see and understand the street network below you don't need to be very careful about placing the buildings. And by introducing all those small lights the human scale really becomes tiny and on the other hand the city and spaceships become huge. I hope I am being successful with the scale relationships.

twhiteart
12-17-2004, 05:03 PM
I hope your vacation was great! I agree the color scheme, layout and now the vortex are all looking great! I think if you could detail out the leftside of the buildings and forground elements it would help you know what to do next. I would love to see the architectural lines cleaned-up and some slight color changes between each of the buildings in the forground. Good luck and I cannot wait to see what you do next.

Todd

andreasrocha
12-17-2004, 05:06 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103303160_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103303160_large.jpg)

Added some darker tones. The image was looking a bit pale and I think it still is. I also think the colorscheme was looking a bit monotonous, so I added some colors to the city, to try to liven things up a bit.

andreasrocha
12-17-2004, 05:15 PM
Walrus...Thanks! I think I forgot about the other ships. Probably I will introduce them again...don't know, yet.

twhiteart Thanks man...Yep, vacation was great. The buildings are missing a lot of detail...you're right. My last post is almost a coincidental answer to your comments. Perhaps I will vary the building colors a bit more, even.

Rasdasa Great thing that you associated the spaceship with an arachnid...I also felt it looked like this, but I have to confess, it wasn't intentional. It just happened. I'm also glad that the whole scene doesn't look so Independence-Day-like anymore. (but there is still a strong relation to it)

Thanks giocele and MDN67 for your positive comments!

claudiojordao
12-17-2004, 05:50 PM
Hello andreasrocha! What a fantastic work you have here!
I find it some how similar to my work! :) Keep it up.

andreasrocha
12-17-2004, 11:14 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103325253_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103325253_large.jpg)

Oh boy...today was Intensive GSO Working Day. What I like most, is that I can go on for hours with this...it's such an enjoyment!

I made a few perspective adjustments, and made a major update to the human element of the image. I changed the previous structure with the top a of a dome, to mimic arabic, religious architecture. I also didn't like the way the top of the previous structure conflicted with the city skyline.

The figure is supposed to be some kind of priest, praying in despair/amazement, I don't know. What would you do if there was a gigantic spaceship entering your atmosphere? This man could be living in a poorer district of the city, devoid of hi-tech architecture, giving us the idea of a grand metropole where various cultures coexist. (brainstorming)

Comments welcome...

cgkrusty
12-18-2004, 02:23 AM
I really like the FG figure change...

I loved this image when I first saw it, when you had the Alien craft smoke-ily emerging from the clouds (like the one in the BG). It had this wonderful sense of wonder / trepidation and foreboding... really pulled the viewer in.

I think the detail you've added to the ship is giving to much away... you're letting us figure it out instead of letting our imaginations run with the concept. It's like the 1st Alien movie (Sigourney Weaver), you barely saw the Alien but were freaked out.

I think the piece worked more, on that level, when I was trying to figure out what would come out of the clouds.

I do like the disturbance on the water though and overall the image works really well.

Great work regardless!

cgkrusty
12-18-2004, 02:28 AM
The image that you've done that I think really captures that foreboding mood is in post #171 in this thread.

You've done a tonne of work on this and it's really showing, so many iterations... great stamina!

walrus
12-18-2004, 05:21 AM
Well, that's an interesting change, Andreas! Glad you had more time to work on it!
I see the mysterious dots have rematerialized int eh sky again, and i admit to never having quite figured out what they are. I like the concept fo the guy up on the roof, it does open up the picture a lot more and at the same tiem make it more personal. But I'm not sure it's totally working for me yet. Here are some thoughts on him:
- How did he get up there? There is no visible ladder or portal or trap door or anything. (sorry, nitpicky point! :-))
- I love the sweep of his cape and hair, but the rest of the body - torso and arms, more specifically - do not have as much life as they could. Maybe the pose could be exaggerated more? Maybe he has to struggle to lean into the wind caused by the ship? Maybe he's in a mid wave?
- I feel like his colors fight against the rest of the colors in the shot. Everything else is very warm, even the greens you use on the ships are a yellow green... so his bluer-green cape feels mismatched a bit. (Come to think of it, some of the hilights on the buildings seem to be closer to the color of his cape than the color of the ship.) Also, he's lit from the left, but it might be nice to give him some light from the ship to the right too.
-I love the dome he's on, it might be nice to see mane more of them in the city, not just a few.
- Lastly, have you considerred putting some ships out on the water to help indicate just how huge the waves and vortex and ships are?

Hope you don't mind all of the notes, feel free to ignore and take just what you need. Hope you get some more quality time with your piece this weekend! :-)

-mike

Tranchefeux
12-18-2004, 09:43 AM
Hi, it is a good idea to have added the character, that gives an
extremely pleasant note of colors, good.

element5
12-18-2004, 10:17 AM
Nice developement with the water and the guy on the rooftop.....looking very Grand to me :thumbsup:

andreasrocha
12-19-2004, 12:37 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103416676_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103416676_large.jpg)

Used the burn and dodge tools to create some more contrast. Also followed some of your advice. Thanks! Reduced some of the details and colors of the city, and created some more foreground elements. I also added a couple of ships, but they have to reworked.

Thanks for the suggestions...

sidchagan
12-19-2004, 03:36 AM
I do think the purple worked better, but on the other hand, the green tone sets it apart from a lot of other contest works, so its fine. The details are coming out nicely, and I particularly cant wait to see the finished cityscape.
The man's colors need to be worked on a bit though, I think. The colors seem to clash against the background.

Fahrija
12-19-2004, 12:39 PM
Hi Andreas,

very beautiful image. I very much like how the water develops >looks great. The different foreground elements also fits much better. It seems you struggling a bit with the shapes of the spaceship elements.. Integrating the green color is more difficult than the purple/blue you had before but it just a matter of fine tuning. great image.

Greetings
Fahrija

leho
12-19-2004, 01:20 PM
hell dude, this is surely one of the best!!!
i really like this wave-thingy on the water and the burning sky near the edge of the spaceship. this is IT man.
really good

Arctis
12-19-2004, 01:21 PM
Hi,
Your work is really improving well ! I definitely prefer your last ship design : the green "eyes" remind me the Nautilus of Cpt Nemo, quite a nice ref !
The idea of a character praying is also good.
I would only have two crits : About the flying saucer's edge,though it is well rendered, I think we see it too much : maybe it would give the impression of a bigger scale if we just see the center of the saucer emerging from the clouds, with no visible edges.
About the praying character, maybe the impression of distress would get stronger if there were several persons, because it's a big city with a lot of inhabitants... It would strengthen the "grand" aspect of the scene.
Anyway good job ! :thumbsup:
Cheers :beer:

Aethyrprime
12-19-2004, 07:15 PM
Great sense of ambiance. The character in the foreground sets the tone as having an almost mystical shamen-like overture as he overlooks the invasion coming from the stars. Keep up the great work!

DonHuan
12-20-2004, 04:55 PM
I have to say that i am really impressed about you.You are really deticated in your work and that is what i want to do the time is left.I think you should stop overwork with it soon so you don't lose the great potential of what you show now.Good luck man.:thumbsup:

DonHuan
12-20-2004, 04:57 PM
Also my entry, in case you can make a good critique for my work, i am really interested in it.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1821052#post1821052 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1821052#post1821052)

andreasrocha
12-21-2004, 02:11 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103595117_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103595117_large.jpg)

Don't know if I went too far with this one...I hope not! Some areas are still quite blurry, but I have to get some rest. Sometimes I wish I didn't have to sleep at night to stand upright the next day.

Thanks to everybody for all the comments and a special thank-you to my friends at work for their ongoing constructive criticism. It has helped me a lot to see what I didn't see before.

melkao
12-21-2004, 02:41 AM
wow man is nice to see all your porogres. that image seems beter everyday:scream:

Radulan
12-21-2004, 02:44 AM
When I first saw the work I thought it might be a 3d entry and I was wondering how you got the atmosphereic effects that you have. But then I realised it was a 2d submisson. The composition and coloring are marvelous.

The removal of the canopy over the "Preist" definitly improved on the whole image.

Roadrunner4D
12-21-2004, 09:35 AM
Wow! Impressive work! The ship, the water, the city... looks amazing! I'm looking forward to see the final pic!
By now, it's only the man in the foreground, who is a bit to blurry for my taste... But I think you will not have problems to get the right solution with that!

Cya

Roadrunner

DrFx
12-21-2004, 01:21 PM
Hi there! These last iterations of your work are really impressive! i especially like what you've done to the bottom of the ship and the fiery vortex coming out of the ship!
I think the figure in the foreground makes much more sense now, but it is still a bit tiny. Perhaps a cape flying with wind would add drama and balance to it. The back looks a little too arched, maybe he shouldn´t be sitting down, I would try something like the "Platoon" stance (Willem Dafoe crying to the heavens). I'm also glad you reduced the green smoke trails from the BG ships, they were too long.
Maybe it's optical illusion, but I don't think the centers of the fire and the water vortex are aligned, so may need fixing. The next steps would be to add more detail to the character and the building he's sitting on, and also the buildings in the city, especially the tall ones, which are also asking for a bit of "shine"!
Best of luck for the contest, but do try to get some sleep a few hours a day! :)
Carlos

Aerion
12-21-2004, 01:40 PM
I must agree with others , your progression so far is great.

I especially like the vortex at the bottom of the ship and the sky.

Anyway I guess I prefer with the balcony on the right , not sure.

May I ask you which brushes did you use for the overall?

Thanks and , I'm sure you'll be on the top 5 ;)

MoonVisionStudio
12-21-2004, 02:19 PM
Your sense of scale and lighting are magnificent.

andreasrocha
12-22-2004, 12:52 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103676757_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103676757_large.jpg)

I made this after getting a suggestion from one my work-colleagues, in an attempt to give the spaceship a more dynamic entrance. It's all on a separate layer so I can easily go back to what the image was on the step before.

I would like to know if you think that I took a step back with this one...

walrus
12-22-2004, 01:28 AM
Andreas -


I like the figure's pose in this more than in many of the otehrs (though i like the coloring and hilighting from the last post.) The figure seems the mose real and natural to me. But as for the spaceship, the odd angle doesn't feel like it's quite working, it feels at odds with the rest of the perspective to me. And as for the tidal wave... too neat, too clean, and it makes the threat to the city more from water damage than from meeting an alien race... keep the aliens the main threat! :-)
anyhow, just - as always - my own subjective viewpoint, hope any of this helps in any way! I am, as always, admiring your painting and your perseverence!

-mike

KaleN
12-22-2004, 10:16 AM
I must agree with walrus. Figure pose is much more realistic but that strange angle looks a bit like a perspective mistake. For the wave i woluld sugest something in between of those two alternatives.

greetings

pr73
12-22-2004, 11:44 AM
Hello,
according to me, the sea was better before. And u've got a strange perspective on the foreground spaceship.
be back to see the evolution.

Aurorae
12-22-2004, 08:51 PM
Although a nice idea, I prefer earlier designs. The way the tidal wave is so perfect doesntfit in with 'how' the spaceship has come. its hard to describe what I mean, but unless the ship was moving really fast, the tidal wave would be further away from the ship.
Still comositionally its so pleasing to look at, this is one of my favorite entries so far!

keep it up bud :thumbsup:

andreasrocha
12-23-2004, 01:10 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103764253_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1103764253_large.jpg)

Well, I had to go back to my previous spaceship solution. Don't know what went through my head! Everything looks bad now that I look at my previous entry. Thanks for making me see it.

Worked quite a bit on the priest figure and I think that I finally came to a pleasing solution. Also detailed the city and the spaceship a bit more. The biggest difference and the fastest to execute was after using Photoshop's "Auto Levels" command on each individual layer. Now that I look back at the previous entries they all look too orange, and the "automatic" introduction of violet on the horizon works, in my opinion, although perhaps I will have to reduce it's effect on the overall image. But I think that the introduction of these other colors livens everything up, although the image has a different feeling. Don't know if that's good or not. I will have to digest it a bit more.

SideAche
12-23-2004, 02:23 AM
Really nice Andreas. I like this version and where it's going and the color you added in the background. It could be my screen, but I don't see any of that nice green color from the ship lights reflecting in the water. Adding some might punch up that area also. Great work!!!

pr73
12-23-2004, 09:30 AM
Much better!!! I really like this version. The man is great like this, however, his right hand is a bit strange.
A nice evolution.

Branko
12-23-2004, 01:57 PM
I definitely agree, the added addition of contrast the violet brought in really makes the picture bounce for me.

-rasdasa

Ransom
12-23-2004, 02:50 PM
I dont know why but the guy in the foreground on his knees really seems out of place.
1. What is he on ? looks obscure to me.
2. Reason/purpose to be there? If there was aliens invading why would you be on some kind of roof ?

I liked the apartment version better ( just in that aspect though) it seemed more realistic to me then some random guy on a circular platform.

Other than that it looks really awesome i love the new alien ship design and the swirl coming out of it into the water!!!

draco_1967
12-24-2004, 01:38 AM
oooo...I really like this version too. The auto levels was a good move. I can understand the guy on the roof. like in "Independence Day" when all the people gather on the roof having a party....

leho
12-24-2004, 10:30 AM
he's mankind's last hope :d praying for help. preist or smth. it has been discussed here before.....i guess

Branko
12-24-2004, 01:42 PM
For me he fits in perfectly with the concept. If you look around it's pretty unique. most other entries have people scrambling or fighting, so I personaly find Andreas approach quite refreshing.

One thing I just notice Andreas is that the very bottom reflection, upon the structure on which the priest is kneeling, if that is sunlight/natural light, then I feel that the bottom shine of the structure is much too strong compared to the above part of the structure. I realize that this is because it's spherical and therefor there is more surface area angled towards the sky, but the edge of the structure doesn't even seem to be hit by the light. Here, let me illustrate what I mean. Try adding some light in those areas lacking or reducing some light from the highlight(I'd add, so that it remains the point of interest) and see what happens.

-rasdasahttp://img135.exs.cx/img135/8690/38871103764253large3qx.jpg

foane
12-25-2004, 11:09 AM
nice work Andreas... I like the colors in your painting but I think you should go for a more subtle lighting scheme. now it kinda looks like you composited seperated pieces together, maybe a good overlay would help?
anyway, nice job and good luck

techart
12-25-2004, 07:19 PM
nice work at the end mate...lovely colors and composition.....everything fits whell..congrats for the nice pic...cheers

Onethread
12-26-2004, 04:37 AM
Hi
I like your entry very much. it's definetly something to put in your living room, if you have some of the colors in your room. Would match perfectly with ours:)

regarding the greenish lights not reflecting: i think they wouldn't reflect, the reflections would lie before the image pane.
the wave looks great. something to surf on ;)
Wish you the best.

andreasrocha
12-26-2004, 08:51 AM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1104051097_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1104051097_large.jpg)

Filled the void behind the man with some tall buildings to give him some kind of enclosure, so the viewer's eyes don't wander off. I also changed the "altar", because I wasn't too happy with the other one. It was also an attempt to correct some of its flaws both physically and functionally, that you pointed out. The man also got a more defined back-muscle structure.

Sideache - I will still introduce a subtle green reflection. Thanks for pointing it out.

pr73 - I corrected some of his anatomical features. Thanks!

Rasdasa - Thanks a lot! I also hope to have corrected the "altar" issues with this new one.

foane - I think I will keep the lighting like this. But your are right...some of the elements seem disconnected, but I hope to have corrected this with the addition of the buildings in the background and some other corrections. I want to keep the color scheme divided to bring out the conflict between these two realities. Thanks for the suggestion.

Techart - thanks...trying to keep up with the other great works...like yours.

Onethread - Thanks for the compliment. I think I will introduce some kind of green reflection on the sea...just a subtle one.

Thanks everyone!

andreasrocha
12-28-2004, 11:07 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1104275244_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1104275244_large.jpg)

I followed Foane's advice (at least that's what I think you meant, Foane) and made the colors a bit more coherent. I also changed the spaceship's glowing lights back to purple. I increased the overall contrast of the image, specially darkening the right half.

The priest also got a different look, more misterious. Now we can barely make out his figure through the robes. I think the translucency makes him stand out in front of the urban background.

I also did some overall refining of the city, clouds and sea.

Comments welcome, as always.

DrFx
12-29-2004, 12:04 PM
Yo Andi! Espero que tenhas passado um feliz Natal e que tenhas um óptimo Ano Novo!

I think the new colour scheme, although coherent is also somewhat drab. Please note that you have two main focus opints, the priest and the big ship. The focus is conveyed by the position (both are placed at the diagonal of the pic, in symmetry, each centered at its own half), size (priest and "altar" at the foreground, ship is huge) and, You've guessed it: lighting and colour. The priest is bathed in natural sunlight, which holds a symbolism of Nature and "endemic goodness". The colours are warm and conforting, the light shadow contrast is not harsh. The spaceship, on the other hand is a symbol of aggression, and this is where I think your 12-26 post is better than the last one. I absolutely love the gradient change of the landscape into darker violet, the eerie, unnatural glow of the ship's port and windows and the menacing clouds! One suggestion is to correct the water reflection, you should pu a little more green around the yellow glow because of the windows.
You should not bipolarize the image too much, I think it should be a smooth transition, but clearly there are two opposing halves, visually and conceptually, if you make them too "harmonious", it will look like a plain, peaceful sunset.
Hope that helps, you've achieved an enormous quantity and quality of work and I wish you good luck for the contest and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

foane
12-29-2004, 12:14 PM
thanks for taking my advice Andreas, it looks a lot better now (at least the right half of the painting). there's a lot of perspective and distance so that's nice, your sky is superb....I hope you can make the buildings and priest as good as the rest....
if I may give another advice: like drFX said, you have two focal points and that will work against you....what I would try is making the priests back "very" dark and you spaceship somewhat lighter so you get some sort of cinematic effect of foreplane and background, your eye will then be sucked to the spaceship.....
greets

Rui_Padinha
12-29-2004, 07:35 PM
Hi Andi!

Whooa! Now what's that guy flashing at the big menacing spaceship? Something big and menacing as well? Mmm... quite suspicious, I'd say... :eek:

No. seriously, great work! I realy love the way you portrayed the priest figure... it doesn't reveal too much about it's nature and keeps a shroud of mistery and fascination about it...

Good job on the drapery and the cloth translucency as well :thumbsup:

I do agree with DrFX about bipolarizing the image too much, you should avoid this at all costs! On the other hand the transition between the cloud cover abd the spaceship is brulliantlu executed... Bravo!

The buildings are fading much better into the distance now, but I think you should apply a thin layer of environment fog to the ones closer to the camera to convey the sense of scale. A ground fog in the city areas would also be quite nice...

Only crits right now concern the ship itself... I liked the green tinted lights better, and I think you have yet to find the "perfect compromise" between volumetric shape and detail... but I just know you'll do it!

Good luck and take care!

Ah, e já agora, Bom Ano Novo! Entra com os dois pés, que isto de entrar só com um não deve ter graça nenhuma...

Um grande abraço e até ver!

ered dium
12-29-2004, 08:25 PM
Hi Andreas, Your work looks great, maybe I prefer the past character you draw (final coloring 12) but the green lights in the spaceships are better. I like the details in clouds, sea and city.
Very cool image :thumbsup:



Grand Space Opera (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=180121) - Leo Calv

andreasrocha
12-30-2004, 06:49 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1104432568_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1104432568_large.jpg)

Closeup of the priest.

KevinJM
12-30-2004, 06:58 PM
I really like the translucency if this red cloth.You can feel the light passing throuh it. The red color scheme is great. :)

andreasrocha
12-30-2004, 07:00 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1104433218_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/challenge/entries/6/3887/3887_1104433218_large.jpg)

I detailed the background a bit more, working mainly on the clouds and the mountains in the back, giving the whole picture more depth. I also cleaned up the city a bit to start its detailing.

The priest also got some detailing on his robe and I give him some hands to make his pose more expressive.

The spaceship got some detailing, however I am not quite happy with it.

There are only 18 days to go, but I think I will have time enough for what is missing. I went back and forth so many times, that I really don't know if I have a "healthy" working methodology. But, I must confess, that I learned a great deal working all these hours on my GSO entry. My future works will definitely be influenced by what I learned here.

A special thanks to Rui Padinha and DrFX for their insightful comments.

PetriJ
12-30-2004, 07:14 PM
I can see that you had the same problems that I did. Went through many stages, and when I was too tired of my picture, I changed it radically. I'm still not satisfied with the result, but it'll do, it must do 'cause there's so little time left.
Anyways.. It's looking very good, though I must say that I liked the dock you started this with, but it's too late to say things like that.
good luck.

Fahrija
12-31-2004, 12:51 AM
Hi Andreas,

you went back to the purple/blue lightning. For a while it seem you were fixed on the green color > it was a good decision to go back cause the actual color fits much better. I very much like how you´ve developed the clouds at the edge of the spaceship. That looks convincing. And also the rest of the sky.

The arrangement of the buildings looks a bit strange to me. One of those three buildings I would give another direction/height/position because they alltogether have the same thickness although they are located in different places on the grid. The buildings have nearly the same gab between each other. That maybe is also a reason why it looks strange.
The foreground with the priest is your best version to me but how the hell did he get up there? :)

Greetings
Fahrija

Squibbit
01-01-2005, 06:53 PM
that... looks cool :thumbsup:

leho
01-01-2005, 07:25 PM
oh my god dude. you must win. clouds look perfect