Real Subdivision

[graphiouz]

i dont really know,.
but making a poly cube and smooth it, thats not real Sub-D in my book, thats dividing a poly mesh.,poly-proxy arent real sub-d,
houdini i believe have somewhat similar sub-d to maya.
i havent used lightwave and XSi that much so i dont really know,.

i have always thought that maya sub-d´s are something from pixar?

.

[MsLeal]

The Maya and Softimage XSI has a real subdivision surfaces. The others softwares has a subdivided surfaces and not a real subdivision surfaces.

[Kaiser_Sose]

The only true subD program is Mirai [ period ]

[wedge]

how are Maya SubD's not real SubD's?

[Fabian]

What's the great deal about real SubD's compared to just subdivided surfaces? :hmm:

[iC4]

real subds are really smooth, no matter how you zoom in, they will be always smooth.......if you use just meshsmooth and zoom in you will maybe see some edges, this won't happen with real subdDs

[graphiouz]

fabian
polygons needs to be smoothed(subdivided), the whole object suffers(gets heavy on geometry)
Sub-d are smooth at default, you can concentrate on detailed areas without smoothing the whole thing,.+ you can get sharp edge/areas right beside a really smooth area! with out 10000 of edges/facets/vertex

a human face for example, the front area gets heavy because of detailed geometry, in both cases poly vs sub-d (lesser on sub-d), But the back of the scull dont need to have heavy geometry, because of no/less details, thats one reason where 'real sub-d'
are stronger/better,. less heavy geometry.
im not a expert on technical terms, math etc but you get the picture i assume..

[kamil_w]

SubDs in Maya are indeed very special. They use diffrent method of evaluation from others and h-approach is not the only advantage. This eval method allows Nurbs tools&techniques to be transferred to SubDs.

"Examples, include ray surface intersection, evaluating integrals over the surface (Finite Elements), curve on surface (for trimming), texture mapping, arbitrary tessellation, etc."

It was developed internally in AW by Jos Stam, their research scientist.
He is also behind Fluid Dynamics system in 4.5, skin&diffraction shaders and more (to come).

His page:
http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/stam/reality/index.html

[butterfly_fx]

You sir never tried Lightwave don't you? ;)

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by butterfly_fx
You sir never tried Lightwave don't you? ;)

what about it. you cant have 5 points/edges per poly.

[CIM]

Who cares if Maya's sub-d's are real or not--they're slow as hell and barely usable.

[Mikkel Jans]

No.. Why they are slow sometimes is because of the stubid way they are build.. There is a Scrtipt which build the SubD Connections like in CPS which means no more blind data nodes and no more slowness..
Try take a polygon Cube with 10 segments and smooth it 3 times.. It gets VERY slow.
Now do the same but convert it into a SubD surface.. No lag at all!.
Mayas SubD surfaces are extremly fast.

[iC4]

hm, they would be fast if there were not so much errors which slows them down.......

I often start with subDs, but after a while I have to use the cage without the subDs because it's not possible anymore to work with the subDs (and deleting the blind nodes doesn't help)

[boomji]

hey dude,
that buggy seams very metal slugg type :)
nice game by SNK...pity they shut down :_ _ snifff,
b

[ambient-whisper]

yep:) its one of my fave games.:)

by the way. mega enterprise picked it up. so there will be more metal slugs in the future :) they released part 4 already i think.

[boomji]

hey ambient,
too bad fatal fury,K.O.F,samurai showdown werent taken over :_ _ _ or are they !!! :)
b

[ambient-whisper]

dunno. out of all the games for neo geo. i only enjoyed a few of them. like metal slug, last blade, samurai showdown, and blazing star.

havent played KOF forever. so i dont remember how those were. :/

[ryguy]

Maya's subDs are real and work in a nice, hierachical fashion. SubD's in Maya are NOT slow... UNLESS you have a character over 5 levels... and there is no need to go over level 5 or 6.

If you subD is slow, delete any history and blind data nodes (via the hypergraph in Poly mode) This will speed them up a great deal. If your subD is rendering slow, so go into the attrib editor and open the tessellation tab and turn the sample count down. (by default I think it's 4)

What I like best about SubDs in Maya is the levels. You can have a 3 level character and bind a skeleton with level 0 vertices, thus making the character extremely easy to rig and animate.

If you start hating on Maya SubD's, I suggest you play around with them for a bit and actually get to know how to use them before making an unsupported comment (ie. Maya SubD's are slow).

~Ryan

[dmcgrath]

The only problem I have heard about MAYA sub-d is that only the MAYA renderer truly supports them. One day, people will start to see their true benefits when other Rendering packages actually support them.

We can cross our fingers until then.

[iC4]

but always deleting the blind data nodes is really annoying. why does maya create the blind data nodes?

[ryguy]

Blind data is associated with any poly Mesh, including SubDs. Blind data is a template basically and that data can be used for realtime games and the like.

I think it's just like any type of optimization that you need to make to your model.

What I like to do and seems to work for me is that I model everything out with polygons. If I need the mesh to look more organic, I create a subD out of it. I make sure I do all my final extruding so I don't need to mess with the SubD in poly mode. Then I make an creases, level refines, etc.

For texturing, I'll select the poly cage, press the down arrow key, delete the subD and apply the texture mapping. Once texturing is completed, I select the poly cage and create a subD out of that. Your creases and any level edits will retain as long as you didn't delete the history or blind data nodes before hand.

~Ryan

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