BERT-- an animated short

[Refracted]

simply amazing.. great expressions, clean toony 3d, hilarious.. i love it

[wedge]

oh my god!

thats like the cutest thing i've ever seen!!!

top notch animation, great facial expression, HILARIOUS antics, and overall cuteness...

FIVE STARS!!!

[lildragon]

This is just a marvelous piece of work man :applause: Everything was so well executed and looked extremely professional!
Can you please introduce yourself and tell us more about the film? since this is one of the best first post I've seen in a long while :)

I just had to plug you of both cgtalk and 3dfestival.com 10 stars!!!

kudos!!

P.S. Do you have this in downloadable format? If you don't have a server, I will host it for you temporarily, everyone must see this great short.

salud!!

[Dirk_P_Ho]

Yeah, id love to get a download of it...gripping work! :thumbsup:

[eRaDiCaT0r]

Awesome! Awesome! Very clean and professional looking work. How long did it take to make and how many people were involved in it? :buttrock:

[Kirt]

:applause:

Excellent! I loved every bit of it. Nice characters and animation.

[JFrench]

Great timing and poses.

[anticz]

Saw this a couple days ago. AMAZING WORK!!!!!!!!!!! Animation and direction are top notch.

[spiff73]

thank you all, i'm glad you guys enjoyed BERT.

my name is Moonsung Lee and i'm going to academy of art college in san francisco. BERT is my senior project and took me about little more than a year. the school is quite close to big studios like pixar and pdi, so we have this wonderful courses taught by animators from pixar. BERT is also done in one of pixar character animation class at academy.

i did story, design, animation and sound design but many friends helped me in many ways.
wonderful music is from the records of Trio Voronezh-- three classically trained russian trio located in Oregon.


you can download it from:

http://moonsung.anihaus.com/movies/bert_divx01.avi

it's compressed with divx 5.0.2

[lyca]

It´s so sweet - I love it
:love:

[baby]

it's very very nice !!!! I love it...

animation very cool, lightning very nice...music perfect...and I luv the characters !!!!

I love your interpretation of the "nasty/bad/ugly little duck"...do U know the english name of this tale ?!?



what is your school ?!? do they have a website ?!?




(at one moment for a sec it reminds me of for the bird...)

[Kaiser_Sose]

Congatualtions ... you did a great job

[flamedevil]

Nice work.
Excellent for a first short .
I like it :thumbsup:

[bigB]

cool.....:thumbsup:

it's very nice one

[Funkyjuice]

Really nice first post....

The whole film had a great pace..... the score working beautifully with the story.... Made even better with your choice of no words or language used... making it multi national.....

Characters are truly cute.... particularly liked the ending shot with both houses in darkness (with the exception of the lights)

Really nice.... no critz here!

[baby]

watching it again in full screen with the DIVX...

how to say that...


one of the nicest thing I've seen for very very long...I'm a fan !!!! :bounce:

can't stop watching it !!!! it's brillant / perfect....:bounce:




it should be on the Monster Inc DVD right next to for the birds !!!! ;)



now :
do a web site...with a lot of animations with those little characters...wallpapers...ect ect...

[Tottebias]

This one's brilliant. I love it!

[dvornik]

Umm... Balalayka music... Reminds me of my youth... Maybe not. Great animation. Very expressive characters. I thought the story was surprisingly conservative. 5 stars anyway!

[lildragon]

Originally posted by baby


now :
do a web site...with a lot of animations with those little characters...wallpapers...ect ect...

Heh I'm with baby here ;) and that wip dice animation is pretty slick also ;)

salud!

[santiago]

That short is so beautiful, and specially stands out among so many themes based on violence and evil, which I am not totally against, but there seems to be too much of it lately.

I just love the simplicity of the animation, while demonstrating so many key aspects like secondary motion, wonderful timing, camera angles, the definition of moods is definitely helped with the lighting. I think that's what caught my attention the most, the lighting of this short sets it apart from previous shorts I've seen, well, I haven't seen too many yet. I guess other people here can help me on this one. Have you ever seen other shorts that use lighting so well?

Just the part when the little tike is sitting all alone on that fence thing, with the camera shooting from way above directed downwards (I'm not familiar with the technical camera language), with a huge shadow casted, that was just perfect to set the mood. The music and sunset background help express the mood even better.

Really really cool. I feel so inspired by this short, thanks for sharing!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[baby]

on the general mood it really reminds me of "for the birds"...

the trad music / the nice cloudy blue sky

but I'm sure being so close to Pixar helps... ;)


and then the 3 little X?!? making fun of the carrot !!!



but it's OK...I have no prob with that...

[mikefeil]

awesome! :)

Hope this is going to turn out to be a series :bounce:
I love how the dad figure slaps him on the butt and sends him on his way. Once again fantastic! :)

[pabbloz]

yeah! Really IMPRESSIVE !
I love the part when it finds his really family. It's just awesome. :eek:
I'm agree with do a web, you should show more about this work and you. People want know you! :)

[Ckerr812]

hey..I hate to get off topic here, but I can never get that dam Ifilm to work. Is there a a place I can download it?

I always get an error saying that it's not avalible in my format, but I have all the latest players and codecs. I just don't get it. I really want to see this animation.

[nick]

Amazing, great story telling with awesome animation and perfect timing. this ones a classic. Give me more!!!!!!! more i say :)

[baby]

maybe You should read the "author" post then !!! :shame: ;)


http://moonsung.anihaus.com/movies/bert_divx01.avi

[Ckerr812]

Originally posted by baby
maybe You should read the "author" post then !!! :shame:


http://moonsung.anihaus.com/movies/bert_divx01.avi

Yes..thanks..I just found the post, little slow on..Sunday mourning, (hung over) :beer:

[Whirlwind]

Brilliant:thumbsup:

[Lano]

really amazing, i love the style and your animation is really subtle and clean. i like how you didnt try to overkill yoru project .
it really works

excellent job

[sigma]

Brilliant!
You put a smile on my face.

http://www.cydonian.com/forum2/yabbimages/grin.gif

[Kaiser_Sose]

Have you mentioned yet all the programs involved

[spiff73]

i used discreet 3d studio max 4.0 for modeling, shading, lighting and animation. adobe after effects 4.1 for little compositing(it was only 2or 3 layers of characters and backdrop), adobe premiere 6.0 for editing, sound design and music editing. i captured sound source with my mini dv camcoder and tweaked a bit with sound forge.

I used falloff map to create toon-like shading. you can find tutorial about this in 3dluvr or some different max-tutorial websites.

thanks for all the kind words, folks!!

[machuc]

Absolutely superb!!!

Congratulations!

[Kaiser_Sose]

Originally posted by spiff73
i used discreet 3d studio max 4.0 for modeling, shading, lighting and animation. adobe after effects 4.1 for little compositing(it was only 2or 3 layers of characters and backdrop), adobe premiere 6.0 for editing, sound design and music editing. i captured sound source with my mini dv camcoder and tweaked a bit with sound forge.

I used falloff map to create toon-like shading. you can find tutorial about this in 3dluvr or some different max-tutorial websites.

thanks for all the kind words, folks!!

Can you please tell me what can AE do that Premeire can not

Do you have amy good learning sources for these programs

[baby]

After is a compositing and effect soft...with a ton of tools for that...

Premiere is an editing soft (with some compositing option...not bad).



but try to do an editing on after.... :( argggg...

[OrestesMantra]

That was soooooo cute:applause:

[Phugative]

Excellent Work!

Fantastic direction, orginal look and superb animation!
I am also attending AAC and studing character animation. Are you finishing this semester or was this your project for last term? I would be interested in seeing some of your other work, do you have a site?

Again, great job!

:bounce: :applause: :beer:

[AnimBot]

Yea great stuff man love the style!!

[jjburton]

That's great work. I loved everything about it. Good luck in all your future endevours.

[arvid]

Great! Love the animation style :) I would love to see it in full framerate though! A lot of motion was lost in that 15fps (or whatever) quicktime movie.

[Kaz]

Originally posted by baby

I love your interpretation of the "nasty/bad/ugly little duck"...do U know the english name of this tale ?!?


It's the "ugly duckling" story.

This is a very good animation. Pixar did an ugly duckling type animation called "For the birds".

[Cman]

Very enjoyable! :beer:

[FloydBishop]

Very nice work. Be sure to enter this in as many festivals as you can so that the piece doesn't live only on the web.

For me, it had all the beauty and style of something along the lines of work by Hayao Miyazaki, some Pixar work, and some Nintendo character design, all rolled up into something totally new. I liked the fact that the characters were the same shapes but inverted. Very nice idea. The lighting and simple sets were beautiful as well.

Very clear and well executed. This would work well in any culture.

[Tob]

Just wanted to give my praise as well....
Top notch. :applause: If this isn't festival material, then I don't know what is.
Looking forward to see more stuff from you.:thumbsup:

[misterboogie]

You're hired!!

5 stars!!

[aazimkhan]

Real nice animation, style of animation well done througout...

five stars from me :beer: :beer: :)

[chrleon]

HAHA!!

Must add to the praise!

Loved the ever smiling main character, and espcially the ending, when he tries repeatedly to give his father a hug, and he just throws him into the house over and over again!

And the small snuggle he gives his dad/mom. CUTE!


Congrats!

**** edit ****

Just had to add that I dind't even notice that he was shaped differently than his brothers/sisters, until the mom pointed it out to him. You pulled that one off just great!!

[feefunk]

Really excellent work Moonsung, I want to congratulate you on a great animation short.
Very nice characters and a "cuteness" that I wish we'd see more often in animation. I'm tired of the sci-fi themes always involving explosions/guns/bots/boobs/etc...

I wish you all the best, whether or not you decide to make animation a career. (you've got TONS of talent as an animator and storyteller)



Five stars! :beer:

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

:surprised

WOW! I don't hesitate to say that that's perfect in every way possible. From the snappy timing and animation to the cell-shader (keeping a smooth gradient shading with a ink-outline was a good call).

I have about a year left until I graduate. If I can make something half that good I'd be thrilled!

[Leo73]

Great job on the short. You definitely belong working at Pixar.

The whole thing was perfect from beginning to end.

[Dr Dardis]

Very good story, excellent animation, well produced. I would be very proud to make a film this good, I hope you feel this way. You should! well done mate!:thumbsup:

[xynaria]

Is there any other way of getting a look at this apart from I Film. Not sure why but every time I try and view something from I Film it says I haven't got a suitable player yet I have Quicktime, WMV, and the risible Real player... is it cos I'm on 56k? :)

[lildragon]

xynaria: go back to the first page and read the creators second post ;)

salud!

[xynaria]

/me blushes and determines to learn to read properly in future :eek:

Thanks Lildragon. :) :beer:

[XTitan]

Simple, yet extreamly amazingly entertaining. Very nice movie man. Much Props. Keep up the great work.

[teknotek83]

awesome job!! i'm attending AAC as well (i'm going on to my second year in 2D animation).

i love the characters...even the first family that are shaped like up-right spades are really cute! this is definetely the best animated short i've ever seen

the style is just...welll...stylish! and the characters can't get any adorable (especially with the main characters optimistic smile). the music fits the scenes oh-so perfectly!

this really makes me want to do a double major :p

chal hae so!! ^-^
ahn youNG!

[GRMac13]

Hey, I get a "Page Not Found" when I try and Play the film! Dammit, anyone else have this prob?

[GRMac13]

OK, I finally got the movie to play. I'm gonna have to join in with all the praise, as you truly deserve it. The character animation is near flawless, and some of the most "professional" looking student work I've seen in a long time. Very original and stylish interpretation of the "Ugly Duckling" tale. In fact, I enjoyed your version even better than "For The Birds" (honestly). You definately have a long and rewarding career ahead of you if you keep producing such high quality work. Definately an inspiration to all of us student animators. Salud!

[MrWyatt]

Thanks. You really made my day.

[E.T]

What can i say... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Truly inspiring work!

E.T

[xynaria]

So you're sat there thinking.. surely someones going to start nitpicking this soon... Well...........


It isn't going to be me.. boringly joining in the throng of give this person 10 stars... very enjoyable and well executed piece. THANKS

:beer: :beer:


PS.. How did you do the water coming out of the tap at the beginning????

[spiff73]

water is simply deformed cylinder. and i added
noise modifier on it and i animated noise parameter to give random movement so that it looks like it flows. i think sound design helps a lot for believability. when water stops, i animated radius of cylinder.

i added ray traced refraction on material.

thanx

[Fleago]

Straight off the bat let me leaven my words with a bit of praise - this was, as others have pointed out, an excellently conceived and executed film.

However, as usual, the over-enthusiastic sucking that goes on here has aggravated me a little. The comparisons to "For the Birds" even more so. (Although understandable comparisons on a look and sound level can indeed be made).

For me the over-riding message of "Bert" seemed to be one of non-inclusiveness. At the end the two vegetable families effectively turn their backs on each other and return to their houses - a finality that seems to say "We cannot live together due to our differences".

"For the Birds" merely mocks the vanity and pettyness of the small birds - and if you want to read anything into the end - that we are all the same underneath. (Whether they got on together after that is up to the viewer's imagination).

Although this in no way detracts from the technical skill apparent in "Bert" I wonder if the message could have been thought through a little more - it perhaps could have been a little more hopeful or inclusive at the end.

I'm sure people could argue that it has a happy ending (Bert finds his family) - but if you look deeper it is unsatisfying in a way the "For the Birds" is not.

If you're wonder why thinking about the message a short film gives out is important I would urge you to think how other people would read this message - Palestinians and Israelis anyone? Or how about the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

I would like to point out that this criticism of pro-segregation could equally be levelled at the original Hans Christian Andersen story and is therefore not a direct attack on Moonsung Lee. I just believe that storytellers have a duty to be aware of the impact of their stories - especially when they are as slickly created and as widespread as I'm sure this will become.

2 cents deposited, thanks for listening.

[Funkyjuice]

Where can i download or view the full movie "for the birds"... as pixar only seems to have a sneak peak movie on their site...

Many thanks!

[Plop]

great great great !!! I love it !!!:thumbsup:
:bounce:

[Ckerr812]

Originally posted by Funkyjuice
Where can i download or view the full movie "for the birds"... as pixar only seems to have a sneak peak movie on their site...

Many thanks!

Buy the monster inc DVD.:buttrock:

[derelict]

Hail the animator!

Great animation! Lee, great job!

Must say the animation is very good.... extreamly well done.
There is one crit that i have, didn't want to write it at 1st... but i think what i have to write is important.

Here goes. Lee, you are a great animator, infact you're amonst the very good out there. I felt you should do something that is more non-political, especially at this stupid age and dreadful time.

For kids the animation is very innocent. My 5 year old loved it, but for us adult who live in this nightmarish world is another matter. Everything is questioned be it unintentional or otherwise. Being born in an environment where race is an issue... i hope you know what i mean.

I know you could be amonst the few who could be selected for an academy nomination one day... but try to stay away from sensitive issues. Red's dream was touching, Gari's game was devilishly fun, For the birds was insightful, I can't remember the name of the title of the little table lamp and its dad or mom shorts but it was pure genious in capturing the assence of a child in an inanimated object.

I thought your animation is great because you had captured an insight that was around me. I didn't know why the tears poured out from my eyes. Maybe it was about me and where i am.

All the best in your future endeavours, my friend.

Yours

[liquidhalf]

well, as you are/were a senior, I hope that this gets you lots of exposure and that you'll get the job of your dreams.

I definately enjoyed.. so good luck.

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Originally posted by Fleago
Straight off the bat let me leaven my words with a bit of praise - this was, as others have pointed out, an excellently conceived and executed film....

Good points. I tend to think that the story was primarily there to drive the animation and humour. I don't believe the short goes out of it's way to say "and the moral of the story is..." So I think it can be forgiven for some confusion regarding a message of seperatism.

It's cute. Laugh. :applause:

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by derelict
... but try to stay away from sensitive issues.

Originally posted by Fleago
it perhaps could have been a little more hopeful or inclusive at the end.

You people have got to be kidding me. There always has be a few who think they are being "insightful" while thier opinions are so blatantly ordinary and unoriginal. All I have to say is thank God that freedom of speech is alive and well. Not only do I think that "Bert" is a nicer design than "For the Birds", I think that the story is far more interesting due to it's irony. How frigging boring and "Disney-esque" would it be if both veggie families were all "lovey-dovey" at the end.:rolleyes: In case you haven't noticed, the world doesn't work that way, which is why true art imitates life. Thank you Moonsung, for choosing not to be so intolerably conformist and boring with you're story. Again, great job!

[baby]

yes yes your right and of course Jar Jar is a f... afro gay b...


stop touching yourself man !!!! or go to a psy !!!!


I'm dreaming I'm dreaming !!!!!




Bert Rocks !!!! Bert For president !!! Bert for the academy awards !!!

[Fleago]

Originally posted by GRMac13


In case you haven't noticed, the world doesn't work that way, which is why true art imitates life. Thank you Moonsung, for choosing not to be so intolerably conformist and boring with you're story. Again, great job!

You can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because you are
creating "art". Art doesn't imitate life, it challenges it.

I certainly agree it can be used to tackle difficult and sometimes uncomfortable issues. My point was that in this case I don't think the message was thought about at all and if anything the fact that you think that "the world works this way" makes it even MORE important that the message should be one of inclusiveness to show that perhaps we should try harder to get along.

I am not proposing some "flowery-politically-correct-anodyne" censorship of peoples work, nor that all stories must have a happy ending. I do however think that you should accept that there can be more than one "reading" of a piece of work and that as an artist you should think about what message you want to convey - especially if you are re-treading something as un-original as a folk tale.

I believe it is better, as Pixar did, to fixate on the more positive theme/themes of the original tale. I would say that the theme of self-esteem (which is possibly the only positive part of the Ugly Duckling story) is dealt with quite well in "For the Birds" in that the goony bird is perhaps unaware of his physical differences and that the little birds show their bigotry in rejecting him. The fact that the goony bird in effect "overcomes" these differences is a positive thing and the feeling you get that the little birds have learned their lesson sends a positive message to the viewer that:

a) they should be more accepting of others and
b) they should have the courage to overcome their own "differences"

However, this message is subtle enough not to leave a saccharine taste in the mouth and is distilled with good humour.

Perhaps if the US tempered their foreign policy with more humanity and understanding of other cultures they wouldn't always be in such an infernal mess.

[Fleago]

Originally posted by baby
yes yes your right and of course Jar Jar is a f... afro gay b...

stop touching yourself man !!!! or go to a psy !!!!

I'm dreaming I'm dreaming !!!!!

Bert Rocks !!!! Bert For president !!! Bert for the academy awards !!!

<sigh> This is such a well reasoned argument that I almost didn't reply - very insightful, I'm sure. I'm at a loss at why you didn't include some random smiley dudes and the words "Y0o SuX0R d0oD"

Perhaps you would like to offer your own critique on the story or would you rather attempt to further French/British relationships with your own peculiar brand of Gallic charm?

You could always hook up with Greg and discuss how great freedom of speech is...unless someone says something you don't agree with </sigh>

[beta]

i LOVE it!! ;):):):)

[baby]

if U can read,

I didn't say shut your mouth...

I said yes you're right like those people who did the exact same critizm with episode I...

then U make your own conclusions on that...


If you want to search a meaning in every piece of artwork on this little earth...

good luck !!!!




but I think U just want people to read your stuff, because you're a very interesting person, much more intelligent than I am...
that's why your post is so long...

but I respect that, and I'm free to answer U as I want...as you said freedom of speech...


but U know...I don't think Bert is made for you...


nb: I'm very sad and aware of the israel/palestinian prob...
but I'm not trying to find a pretext in every things I see...
above all not in a student masterpiece cartoon animation...

[baby]

and I think this :


to further French/British relationships with your own peculiar brand of Gallic charm


goes exactly on the contrary of your nice little message !!!

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Fleago
Perhaps if the US tempered their foreign policy with more humanity and understanding of other cultures they wouldn't always be in such an infernal mess.

Your argument fell apart with this statement. You're trying to preach an attitude of "tolerance" and take the opportunity to join the mindless masses on America-bashing (:yawn: Can you BE more run-of-the-mill?). Are you so unsure of your opinions that you need to resort to political arguments in a critiques forum? I find it pretty ironic, condsidering you live in the UK, that you criticise America's policies seeing as you're government mirrors nearly all of them and obviously has no mind of it's own. Tony Blair is essentially our bitch when it comes to matters of foreign policy.

On the matter of "Bert", Moonsung has no responsiblity to anyone but himself when it comes to his artwork. I don't THINK the world works this way, I KNOW it does; being a victim of discrimination and stereotyping myself. There are enough messages about "inclusiveness" out there to choke a horse. To be offended by this short shows that you have the mindset that people should all be the same. Thankfully that's just not true. IMO, it's better to associate people by thier differences and try to understand and respect them rather than trying to assimilate them to your own idea of what they should act or look like. The fact that Bert goes through some ridicule and tries to conform himself to the accepted "norm" of the greens is a great commentary on diversity. When he ultimately finds his "kind" he realizes that he can be himself without worrying about being teased or ridiculed. THAT my friend is truly the way of the world, no amount of sugar-coating or conformism is going to change it. It would be great if everyone was accpeting of others despite thier differences, but to portray it that way in this story would ruin the emotional impact of the tale. The true irony of the story is how physically similar the greens and oranges are, any viewer with any intelligence would realize the trivilaity of thier bigotry, then again all bigotry is essentially based on trivial things; which shows the true brilliance of this adaptation.

[xynaria]

Originally posted by spiff73
water is simply deformed cylinder. and i added
noise modifier on it and i animated noise parameter to give random movement so that it looks like it flows. i think sound design helps a lot for believability. when water stops, i animated radius of cylinder.

i added ray traced refraction on material.

thanx


COOL..I thought it pretty much was that and it is amazing what you can do to 'describe' water with just a bump and reflection map....especially when you look at half the tutorials on the web about using meta partcles etc. :)

Again...simple and very effective! :)

[FloydBishop]

"Bert" is featured on CG Channel:

http://www.cgchannel.com

I wrote them an email in the hopes that they would feature it. I'm probably not the only one who did this.

It looks like they enjoyed it as much as I.


***

Also, to those who start bringing politics of the real world into this thread, think about what's you're writing before you post. It makes you look silly.

It's a fun little short film. Get off your soap box and post your likes or dislikes of the piece. Save the political stuff for another forum somewhere else. Shame on you.:shame:

[spiff73]

thanks for the effort, Floyd.
I really appreciate it.
i should go check out cgchannel.com :)

Moonsung

[lildragon]

We plugged Bert on http://www.3dfestival.com yesterday

salud!

[Larry_g1s]

Extremely wonderful, and Inspirational! :xtreme: Very high quality & yet so simple.

Just outta curiosity, (I'm new to CG production) why did it take a little over a year to make? Is it cause you could allowcate the time you wanted with work, school, etc.? Or is that the standard time for a short? I seriously don't know yet, and curious. Thanks in advanced.

Again tremendous job! :thumbsup:

[Kaiser_Sose]

Originally posted by derelict
i think what i have to write is important.

I felt you should do something that is more non-political, especially at this stupid age and dreadful time.





STFU and keep your personal interpertations out of here

[feefunk]

Originally posted by lildragon
We plugged Bert on http://www.3dfestival.com yesterday

salud!

I posted a link to Bert on the cg-char forum. The more people that see Moonsung's short film, the merrier!

:)

[Larry_g1s]

By Fleago

I do however think that you should accept that there can be more than one "reading" of a piece of work and that as an artist you should think about what message you want to convey - especially if you are re-treading something as un-original as a folk tale.


For one, I think you're reading WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY in to it. And two, if you feel so strongly about such a topic to be positive, YOU animate a short with your opinion. No one is stopping you. But for Moonsung, this is how HE felt about this particular subject. For you not to like it for the reasons you have stated are absolutely fine, you have an opinion. But to say he should have not done it in such a manner is another thing. Just create your own short with your belief about this subject.

Again, I just think you're reading WAY to in to it. :p

[xynaria]

Originally posted by Juggernaut
By Fleago




For one, I think you're reading WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY in to it. :p


Totally agree.. the reading offered there borders on the inane and if was suffering the same degree of *cough* 'intellectualisation'(sic) would itself be deemed neo totalitarian.



:)

[behzad]

Very cute, like me.

:p

[Clienad]

Amazing short great work i dont see it as the next marxist manifesto but as a funny cartoon showing great use of animation, timing, humour and style it wins out lovely job. i would love to see some more of your work and if possible some more of bert and co. I hope you move on to do something really fun with your life as you have the power to entertain. :thumbsup:

I really do appologise for this as i feel im just going to inflame the situation more, ruining Moonsung's good work, just to throw some petrol on to this fleago fire. Your attitude is typical of the pompous British persona we are so quick to judge others and abuse their system then we manage to suck up to them when it is in our interest. As for foreign policy I love the British handeling of the pakistan/ india situation where we managed to become even richer by selling weapons to both sides then telling them not to use them on each other as a matter of piece keeping. Now if you wish to talk about the Americans I suggest you take a long look at our own backyard. However having said that Bush is a bit of a dink and everyone must agree (I am not quite sure why most Americans dont???) and we all know about the French and their views.

I think Moonsung should make another animation based on this fable........
"Every man is born into this world with two bags suspended from his neck one in front and one behind and both are full of faults. However, the one in front is full of his neighbour’s faults; the one behind, full of his own. Consequently, men are blind to their own faults but never loose sight of their neighbour’s."-Aesop

[Tottebias]

Haha, I can't believe how every post, no matter what it is about in the beginning can turn in to a political debate.

[behzad]

Art should not have any boundaries. The world is but one country and Mankind its citizen. :love:

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

[B}You people have got to be kidding me...[/B]

I think you're just being beligerant. He's not saying it sucks, or that we shouldn't like it, but we should at least recognize that the author's neglect of the story results in a potentially offensive message. Just map the story on to humans. Say, a black boy is rejected by white people on the basis of his being black, and the only way he can find happiness is by associating with other black people. Pretty depressing eh? I think it's just unfortunate coincidence, but it's woth recognizing that it's there.

[urgaffel]

I remember when I first saw the storyboards for this short. Posted on CgChar if I'm not mistaken. I'm glad to see that it turned into this beautiful short. Very well done with lots of neat little touches.

To name a few: everything in the greenies house is shaped like themselves, the way Carrots foot slips when he first tries to get up on the bench and, the not so subtle fall-on-the-face when he jumps towards his dad. You just got to love it :)

Great stuff. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Wigaru Wiyamoto
we should at least recognize that the author's neglect of the story results in a potentially offensive message. Just map the story on to humans. Say, a black boy is rejected by white people on the basis of his being black, and the only way he can find happiness is by associating with other black people. Pretty depressing eh? I think it's just unfortunate coincidence, but it's woth recognizing that it's there.

Since when is the only acceptable way of dealing with an issue to resolve it? And since when are artists worried about portraying a "potentially offensive message"?

[baby]

I Only see Carrots and..hu..greenies here...

damned...I'm too cartoon crazy addicted living on another planet..named love peace and Bert constelation...



yup...time to go to bed...sorry.



nb : Monsung will U marry me ?!?

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Originally posted by GRMac13


Since when is the only acceptable way of dealing with an issue to resolve it? And since when are artists worried about portraying a "potentially offensive message"?

Well, if you're not resolving an issue then you're not dealing with it. :rolleyes:

And certainly art has a long history of offending people. But it's clear that this short doesn't aim to do that. I'm saying that the short can be seen as making an offensive statement that was never meant to be there. Regardless of what your opinion is of that message the fact that it doesn't belong is a small weakspot in an otherwise excellent short. I suppose it's the difference between a professional short like "For the Birds" an a student one like "Bert."

[spiff73]

nb : Monsung will U marry me ?!? [/B][/QUOTE]


sorry i'm already married :)

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Wigaru Wiyamoto
Well, if you're not resolving an issue then you're not dealing with it. :rolleyes:

Really? I guess you only watch movies with "happy endings" then. That's sad. Issues can be ADDRESSED without being RESOLVED.


Originally posted by Wigaru Wiyamoto
And certainly art has a long history of offending people. But it's clear that this short doesn't aim to do that. I'm saying that the short can be seen as making an offensive statement that was never meant to be there.

People get offended over everything, and not everything is meant to be offensive. The purpose of leaving the issue unresolved could be meant to force the viewer to realize the irony of these two groups living so close and yet being so far apart.

Originally posted by Wigaru Wiyamoto
Regardless of what your opinion is of that message the fact that it doesn't belong is a small weakspot in an otherwise excellent short. I suppose it's the difference between a professional short like "For the Birds" an a student one like "Bert."

It can only be considered a weakspot for people who need everything to be "black and white" (pardon the pun). Unfortunately life is full of gray areas, and true creative minds know how to play off of those gray areas.

Oh and by the way, I still think "BERT" was more clever and thought out than "For the Birds".

[derelict]

Monsung, i have great regards of your work.

I did not mean to inflame your work with my 1st comment. Please don't get me wrong. What i saw was GREAT work. (After half a day of downloading. hehe)

I think you could run for an academy... after getting it you can do almost anything later on.

My point is you should go for it. But history shows the academy seldom pick something that can be interpreted in many ways.

Again, all the best.

Old saying - "Don't work hard, work smart." and it will add to your growth.

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Originally posted by GRMac13


Really? I guess you only watch movies with "happy endings" then. That's sad. Issues can be ADDRESSED without being RESOLVED.

What makes you think a resolved issue equals a happy ending?

[Hookflash]

Lol... I really got a kick out of some of these "politically correct" little rants that the sheep have been posting. It's like they just try and think of some buzz-words or hot topics they can use to fill in the blanks for a "formula rant". In this case, they seem to have chosen "racism". I think this was a great, cute little short. I was entertained by it. Period. Then these over-sensitive conformists come along and start reading some obscure social message into it, ruining everything.

[derelict]

Not true Hookflash, just wishing monsung goes all the way to the academy with his goods.

I didn't make up the rules. The fact is, it is there however we look at it. One can do and create animation for fun or one could create animation for fun and collect awards along the way.
I felt collecting awards is alot more fun in the long run.

People in the academy don't need the flakes that will come with subject that is so open ended. I could not recall ever viewing one that is this open in its field of nominations. It is enough for the movies let alone to have so in the animation.

Somehow politically correct is their motto. Good natured fun is Great. If one could add the morale of the story better still. As long as it teaches the viewer with a message of hope (if you may, politically correct).

But if the animation ended with a quote saying something in light to this might help redirect ones thinking.

Then again, if monsung don't gives a fig of such stuff than i would like a apologize for wasting your time.

I still think you should go all the way, right up the the academy and not get bogged down due to technicalities.

[The Magic Pen]

You ever need a job we'll hire ya on the spot :applause:

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Originally posted by Hookflash
Lol... I really got a kick out of some of these "politically correct" little rants that the sheep have been posting. It's like they just try and think of some buzz-words or hot topics they can use to fill in the blanks for a "formula rant". In this case, they seem to have chosen "racism". I think this was a great, cute little short. I was entertained by it. Period. Then these over-sensitive conformists come along and start reading some obscure social message into it, ruining everything.

I'm pretty impressed by the mob mentality here. Somone dares to bring up the point that hey, maybe there IS something questionable about the short, and everyone whips out their torches for a lynch mob. There are some definite conformists here, no doubt.

[muckywetnoodle]

Great work! The sound and music is top notch too! :)

[Fleago]

Originally posted by GRMac13


The purpose of leaving the issue unresolved could be meant to force the viewer to realize the irony of these two groups living so close and yet being so far apart.



When looked at that way I would agree that it does have a certain irony.

To reiteerate, I wasn't being (and nor am I normally) particularly PC - I was just pointing out one particular reading of the short. You have just provided another one. My comment was meant to provoke discussion.

I agree that the US jibe was a bit unnecessary and others have quite rightly pointed out that Britain has its own problems (mind you I do get a vote here and can therefore attempt to make changes...)

Thanks all for a (reasonably) informed discussion, its been fun.

My hat is off to Moonsung as he has created the best type of art, one that provokes - better that than to have no reaction on any level.

Bye!

[RobinOberg]

50% sad 50% cute. nothing more nothing less.
a hate built up inside me when i saw the eyes of those little blue ones.
then i thought that the orange ones are probably just as indoctrinated.
feels like nazis and jews or israelis and palestinians :)

[johnnyMac]

News Flash... THIS JUST IN. CUTE VEGETABLE ANIMATION CREATES QUESTIONS ABOUT WORLD DOMINATION, GLOBAL WARMING, THE STOCK MARKET, AND A CURE FOR DIAPER RASH.

SOLUTION: Laugh at life sometimes.

Besides, carrots can kick any veggie's butt anyday.... except asparagus. I've met some mean asparagus in my lifetime.

They come up to you looking innocent and the next thing you know they've got you in a headlock screaming, "I'VE GOT YOUR BRUSSEL SRPOUTS RIGHT HERE BUDDY!!!"

[anticz]

I personally think the story is great. If anyone here thinks this is potentially offensive they have no business being on the internet (or even reading a newspaper for that matter).

A couple politically correct bleeding hearts bent on saving the world from all prejudice and "potentially offensive" material have turned this thread about a great little short film into a boring, let's sensor everything thread. LAME. This is an ART forum,... get a grip on yourselves. I garuntee I could find something "potentially offensive" in every single post on this forum (most of which would be far more offensive than anything contained in this short film)! I'll bet I could come up with something "potentially offensive" about every single piece of artwork every created. Hell, art in general has traditionally been the pursuit of only the wealthy lords, kings, temples, and societies with enough money and free time to enjoy it. I find that offensive. How many people do you think are enjoying the arts in Somalia today? Maybe a handful, the rest are busy trying to survive. Does that mean that because I might be offended that it should be censored or that my offense is even valid? I don't think so. Art should be provacative, not some watered down, lovey dovey, disney cute, everything is right in the world message. This film is about as saccrine sweet as you can get and still present a meaningful message and I love it just the way it is.

Oh, and by the way, I didn't catch the part where the mother of the greenies preaches to her kids to be intolerant. Can anyone point that out? I do recall her the part where she becomes angry with her children for teasing the carrot, but that's kind of the complete opposite of preaching intolerance,... isn't it?

[lildragon]

very very well said Mike ;) especially your last paragraph.


and johnnyMac: ROFL!!!! classic mate :thumbsup:
salud!

[MadS]

Brilliant. I was giggling like a little school boy. :beer:

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Wigaru Wiyamoto
I'm pretty impressed by the mob mentality here. Somone dares to bring up the point that hey, maybe there IS something questionable about the short, and everyone whips out their torches for a lynch mob. There are some definite conformists here, no doubt.

I think you're confused. Just because someone disagrees with your views doesn't mean that they are trying to "lynch" you. Why are you so sensitive? You stated your opinion, others disagreed. Just because several people disagree with your views doesnt make it a "mob mentality." I think most of those who have responded here have made sound and well informed arguments (with a few exceptions). You believe that the short was "offensive" in some way or another, while many others thought it was not. Does this make them conformists? Hardly. IMO a conformist is someone who is afraid to be offensive and tries thier best to please everyone which ironically is what you expected Moonsung to do with his short. Therefore if anyone is being "conformist" here it's you.

Like Fleago said, Moonsung has created the best type of art, one that provokes discussion. Had he chose to make the short as bland and all inclusive as you suggested, this discussion would not even have started as his story may not have been as intriguing.

[Oren Ben-Tov]

What israel/palestinian problem are you talking about?
I didnt know we have any...

Kidding... just thought a little Ironi would be funny...
:wip:

Nice short, the animation was great
congratulation :)

[Adam]

ahh that made me feel so warm and fuzy.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[sanciok]

I'm amazed.
:applause: :applause: :applause:
This is a great piece!!!!

[h1384]

:beer: :beer:
very very awesome...¤Ñ,.¤Ñ
::bounce:

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Originally posted by GRMac13
You believe that the short was "offensive" in some way or another, while many others thought it was not.

J**us Ch***t. Has anyone been reading my posts? I'll save you the time...

First: "WOW! I don't hesitate to say that that's perfect in every way possible...."

Second (after fleago posted): "Good points. I tend to think that the story was primarily there to drive the animation and humour. I don't believe the short goes out of it's way to say "and the moral of the story is..." So I think it can be forgiven for some confusion regarding a message of seperatism."

Third: "...I think it's just unfortunate coincidence, but it's woth recognizing that it's there."

After the fourth it degenerates into bickering.

At this point I don't care any more, but I don't want anyone shoving words into my mouth or accusing me of being "PC" when it's clear that I'm not from my posts.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Wigaru Wiyamoto
the author's neglect of the story results in a potentially offensive message. Just map the story on to humans. Say, a black boy is rejected by white people on the basis of his being black, and the only way he can find happiness is by associating with other black people.

Oops, you forgot that one. Just thought I'd remind you. :)

[derelict]

Errr...

I thought this was a critique section.
Praising is one thing, it helps the person self esteem and it also makes the work well worth it.

But to critique is to help the person understand all points that others felt might help enhance the work to an even better level.
Nobody could take the skill away from him unless someone cut off his hands (fyi, some countries do that). Do you think moonsung doing something pixar or disney like will be bad? With his skill level i know he can take on anything.

where i come from, every movie is censored one way or another unless it is disney's animation. Go across the causeway there is another country and guess what, Prince of egypt was ban there. Go figure.

Some countries the word fark is nothing but an expression. Try saying that in my country or any asian country...

The muslim woman here cover their heads right smack under the bloody hot sun! Some of them cover themself allover, yes allover even the eyes are vailed. I'm still trying to figure that out.

My critic was base on where i come from, please don't punish me for it. It was harmless critic, he could take it or leave it.

Lets move on.

[feefunk]

Good point about the whole censorship thing. It has been said before, Moonsung's animation achieved a reaction, whether it was good or bad so it definitely served its purpose.


on a completely different note derelict, would you mind telling me the name of the lovely lady you use for your avatar?
(not joking, I'd really like to know!)


thanks.

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Originally posted by GRMac13


Oops, you forgot that one. Just thought I'd remind you. :)

"<i>the author's neglect of the story results in a potentially offensive message</i>" is not equal to "I am offended by this short."

[derelict]

Hi feefunk!

You're the 21st person to ask me that!:)

Wow! i didn't know my cousin could stir such reactions!!

Name is Meg

[Larry_g1s]

Your cousin !?!

That's a nice picture. Did you take it?

Wigaru Wiyamoto...I gotta say, love the image in your icon. :thumbsup:

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

My name and icon come courtesy of Uncle Clive (http://www.uncleclive.com/)!

[santiago]

I like the fact that the story expresses meaning to the importance of family. I don't think that the animation moves away from the notion of family, this is the kind of animation that I would like to show my kids, once I get married and have them
:cool:
If they get confused and start jumping to other conclusions about the story's meanings, I'd be there to teach them the positive worthwhile meaning I found in this story, to avoid prejudice, conflict, bla bla bla.

I like the fact that everyone here is so open to express what they really want to write. I hope it always remains a constructive forum, otherwise it does get very boring.

I think censorship would be an issue here if there were 12-year-old members, or if it concerned racial or religious matters that are quite offensive. Am I wrong on that one?
I still think that "Bert" is a very entertaining animation, nothing more, nothing less. If the author wanted to make a statement with it, I guess I missed it, and am not concerned about it.
I just wanted to watch and have fun.

If I later found out that it somehow attacked my personal creed, I would deal with that issue somehow, but not here. I don't think I could achieve anything by dealing with such an issue here. I thought this was an artist's forum.

[facial]

top notch.:buttrock: :buttrock:

[lildragon]

Digging up some of the classics, please send me a higher res image for the gallery ;)

You have received the CGtalk choice award .Please feel free to display this image anywhere you like! Keep it up amazing work bud!

upon receiving this award, it guarantees you a spot in the cgtalk gallery hall of fame (http://gallery.cgtalk.com) - which you are now placed

http://www.cgtalk.com/plug_award/cgtalk_award_feb03.jpg

P.S. Please email me @ tito@cgnetworks.com for the .psd file

salud

[XerC]

yes, lil! finally! :D :thumbsup:

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