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IronGoblin
10-16-2004, 08:24 AM
Howdy.

Working on an architectual image here. Having some problems with burning white on the couch, and my shadows on the wall are to dark. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make these problems go away?

Looking for comments/critic/feedback on lighting, and surfaces.

Indoor scene. Here is the latest render.
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia03.jpg

and here is an earlier render.. with a bit higher resolution:
Earlier render (http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia02.jpg)

Rendered in lw native render, interpolated radiosity, 5 larealights.

Trying to get it to look like this photo:
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia_orig.jpg



Keep on truckin'

annaleah
10-16-2004, 12:17 PM
Perhaps incedense diffuse would help control the "burning white" on the couch and such.Adjust it to accept less light from the offending lights.

IronGoblin
10-17-2004, 06:15 PM
Ill try to do that annaleah.. good point...

Here is a new render... (not to exciting, since ive been away over the weekend)...
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia04.jpg

C&C more than welcome..

Keep on truckin'

Joviex
10-17-2004, 06:34 PM
comparing the real image and yours it looks like all your surfaces (furniture wise) need a higher glossiness and/or a lower specularity. Most likely a tradeoff between the two.

gerardo
10-18-2004, 12:06 AM
IronGoblin: very nice, man! already you almost get it :thumbsup:
I think the main difference is in the solar light (or your keylight). Seems that you have used a very large area light (a distant light maybe works better), Seems also that the direction of this light in the photograph comes toward the camera, while in your image, seems that the direction came from right to left. The sun light color is yellowish and the shades color in the floor are blued, but in the furniture the shades are warm but the specularity is blued (maybe you need to work the specularity with a light and the soft shadows with another light or another solution) :)



Gerardo

IronGoblin
10-18-2004, 07:31 PM
Thnx for the pointers, gerardo.

I tried to do some changes as you suggested. Changed "sun-light" from an area to a distant light. I added some gradients on the sofa (incidenceangle to windowlights)... and i added a bluish gradient to the floor. (using the distance to the windows)...
As amorano suggested I added a specularvalue to the fabric of the sofa/brink and it looks a bit better, but the whitness/bluness burns quite a bit..

Here is my latest render (a bit lower res this time):
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia05.jpg

Struggeling a bit to get a better bump on the floor. Seems like the original have some growes between the wood-tiles. Also have to work on the bumpmap on the brink. It stretches down, and it seems like the bumps are a bit bumpy....

Any other suggestions on what to do to make it look like the orig? (I know im missing a chair)

Keep on truckin'

gerardo
10-18-2004, 10:14 PM
Looks better I think but when I said blued tonalities in the floor shadows I referred to the soft shadows of the objects on the floor, not to the floor tonality (however that can help) :) Maybe you want to use more cyan tonalities (looks very violet now).
The keylight direction doesn't seem still the appropriate and the specularity should be blued.
Iīve made a pic that I hope explain it better.



Gerardo

IronGoblin
10-19-2004, 08:50 AM
Wow. Thnx for taking the time to show me where im going off mark. Must have takene you some time to do this gerardo.

I tried to do some adjustments. I changed the angle of the sunlight, and i changed the shadow color and lightcolor on all the lights. I also added the BRDF shader to the table and woodpieces, to get a blue specular. I removed the blue gradient from the floor, and let the shadowcolor do its work. I think it looks a bit better.
I tried adding the BRDF shader to the sofa/brink, but that didnt work too weel (got to dark), so i made a colorgradient based on the incidenceangle to the light in the farbackwindows, and i think that is the way to do it (even if it looks a bit whiteburned now).
Im not sure how i should add gradients/lights to get the correct effects on the walls (blue, yellow and yellow-orange). I did change the shadowcolor (to a more red color) on the light to the left. But im not sure that was enough.

Here is a new quick render (urk. 15 minutes):
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia06.jpg

Keep on truckin'

gerardo
10-20-2004, 05:43 AM
The tonalities looks better but I like more the previous image floor, however the window shadow is better, I think you can increase a little more the specular too. You can obtain a blue specular using a blue light with shadows off, diffuse off and specularity on.
Certainly I thought that you were using Radiosity, but for your render times it seems that not; (are you using radiosity? that changes everything) very good redertimes by the way. :thumbsup:
If you are not using radiosity, maybe you need to add a light that enters through the window, from right to left (to simulate the environmental light from exteriors)
About colored lights or gradients, I referred to bounce_lights (commonly pointlights) to color the walls, or to the technique of this thread:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=176195
Some don't like it and they prefer lights; in any way, to use the SG_AmbOcc can offer the possibility to adjust the blued shades of the floor and the warm of the sofa easily.

Keep the good work! :thumbsup:



Gerardo

IronGoblin
10-21-2004, 12:03 AM
I think i understand, gerardo. I'll take a look at that thread you posted tomorrow. I did add two new lights though. In the same place as the two arealights outside the windows. I removed affect specular on the two originals, and removed affect diffuse on the new ones. I then made them a lot bluer, and i think the result is the best so far.

I do render with radiosity. and i guess its quite fast so far. (but i do run it on low settings when i test it.

Here's todays render. Medium aa on this one.. took about 4 hours to complete.
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia08.jpg

Keep on truckin'

gerardo
10-21-2004, 09:11 AM
Perhaps the furniture are very bright now, however the specular is better :)



Gerardo

Tombed
10-21-2004, 10:56 AM
This latest one looks good, I like the blue specular. The lighting is really coming together I think:thumbsup: Gradients would seem to rock!
Only thing that stands out to me (comparing to your reference photo) is a lack of darkness in the shade under the bed etc. The furniture doesn't feel quite "grounded". I guess if you use radiosity the ambient is quite high? Have you tried using the ambient occlusion plugin that is posted in this forum? It is quite quick and can make those covered/ occluded areas nice and dark while not interfering with the rest of the scene. Nice modelling BTW keep it up!

IronGoblin
10-22-2004, 08:14 AM
gerardo: yeah.. that is true. I've made some changes on that one.

tombed: Good point. I tried to add the ambient occlusion plugin suggested, but im not quite sure how it works.

todays render: i added a yellow to blue gradient on the backwall as gerardo did in the thread he suggested i should look at. Not sure if it shows. I also added a gradient to the wall an the right.. going from yellow to blue to yellow-orange.. might look a bit better... I think ill leave the lighting alone for a while, and model in the chair for the back area of the room.
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia10.jpg


Keep on truckin'

gerardo
10-23-2004, 08:46 AM
I like much more this last image. :thumbsup:
Maybe you want to do a last test: Tint the color of the walls surface with a little of yellow or maybe the ambient intensity color. I think that Tombed is right, you should try the SG_AmbOccshader, it isnīt so difficult of using. :)



Gerardo

IronGoblin
10-26-2004, 10:53 PM
Sorry for the slow update. Been a bit busy here, trying to get some work.. :)

But anyway.. i added the amb_occ shader to the walls, the fireplace, and the floor.. and this is the result. Might look a bit better.. but not sure if my settings are ok..
number of rays: 16
Shift: 0.4
Max Ray Length: 100mm
Max Angle: 90*
Color on
DIff on
(on floor i also turned reflection on)

Here is the result... think i need a higher diffuse setting on the floor):
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia12.jpg

Keep on truckin'

otacon
10-26-2004, 11:55 PM
Looking good. A few suggestions. Might want to try out the occ shader on the couch as well. For your wood table, i would raise the reflection a little bit, and lower the diffuse about 10-15%. The original has more contrast. Your lamp base needs more of a rounded bevel. Most of the color corrections can be done in post. Ive retouched the last render you posted to show what i mean. Its not 100% correct, but you can see some of the changes.

gerardo
10-27-2004, 08:46 AM
I agree with Otacon. You can use the SG_AmbOcc shader with orange tones on the couch and the sofa. You can even diminish the Shift values (maybe negative values) to contrast a little more the image and so that the blued shades are more notorious (the post solution also works quite well). Btw, nice chair :thumbsup:



Gerardo

IronGoblin
10-27-2004, 10:10 PM
gerardo, otacon:
i added the amb_occfilter to the floor, walls, couch, brink and chair. And it does look a lot better. i didnt do any photoshop touchup but ill do that in the final render. Ill put on that one now, and post the final image in the "its finally finished"-forum.

Thnx for all the help guys.. ill post the location of the new thread when its up and running...
rendertime about 3 hours, with low aa... (on my slow-a$$ computer ;D)

http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia13.jpg

keep on truckin'

kikuu
10-27-2004, 11:46 PM
I think i understand, gerardo. I'll take a look at that thread you posted tomorrow. I did add two new lights though. In the same place as the two arealights outside the windows. I removed affect specular on the two originals, and removed affect diffuse on the new ones. I then made them a lot bluer, and i think the result is the best so far.

I do render with radiosity. and i guess its quite fast so far. (but i do run it on low settings when i test it.

Here's todays render. Medium aa on this one.. took about 4 hours to complete.
http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia08.jpg

Keep on truckin'Buen trabajo!

gerardo
10-28-2004, 02:57 AM
The SG_AmbOcc shader is very strong in the lamp, the sofa and the left column. Try increasing the Max Ray Lengh of the sofa and saturating the color a little. Besides of that I think that you already got it :thumbsup:
Btw, in most of cases the use of an ambient occlusion shader allows you to do it without radiosity and to diminish considerably the render times.



Gerardo

ages
10-28-2004, 04:05 PM
Post the scene and objects so we can all have a look, i just bought G2 today and would love to try it out..It has Photon mapping features as it states.

IronGoblin
10-28-2004, 10:04 PM
kikuu: hmm im not to good at languages.. but buen means "very"? trabajo i really dont know.. and i hope it doesn't mean "bad" or "ugly" or something like that.. but thnx for the feedback.. :)

gerardo: when you are right, you are right.. :) i did some limited region renders and some tests.. and i think i've got it now. render is on the way.. ill try doing it without radiosity on my next project... but i wont do it on this one.. (just wanna be finished with it)

ages: sorry.. but i dont feel like sharing the scene and the object.. hope you understand... i could show of a wireframe of the scene.. with some text showing the lightingsetup and stuph... hope that will help a bit.. :)

New render on the way.. its not finished yet.. but ill post it as soon as i get up in the morning.. :)

Keep on truckin'

IronGoblin
10-29-2004, 06:04 AM
geardo: thnx for the nice words on the chair... you can buy it for your livingroom at www.bolia.com.. i know i would love to have that chair, but the chair and that footstool (is that a word) is about 1.100 USD.. and I know I cant afford that.. unless someone hires me to do architectual renders.. :)

this is my final render on this one.. did some correction i PS. but i suck at that, so any suggestions on how to touch it up is much appreciated...
Render time: about 17 hours, medium AA, interpolated rad with 5x15 rays per evaluations...Ray recursion limit is set to 8...

http://www.firestorm3d.com/images/arch/bolia14_pp.jpg

Keep on truckin'

gerardo
10-29-2004, 06:43 AM
I believe that you have already achieved the colors and tonalities of the image. But I see very dark shades; maybe in PS you can play with Levels and to diminish them a little.
By the way:
buen = good
trabajo = job / work
buen trabajo = good job!
I think the same thing :thumbsup:



Gerardo

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