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HyPer
10-15-2004, 11:03 PM
Hey guys.. I figured i would post this here because well, it looks like a pain in the ass to post in the finished work section of this place now :)

This stuff is technicaly "finished", lots of it is being re-done, expanded and whatnot, so i guess id realy like to hear feedback on the current art style, how its working, what works, what doesnt perhaps, things you think could help (cept for the obvious stuff like, "needs more bushes!")
But I guess if you have criticisms, go for it, I always like to hear them but if i can do anything about it is another story, but if you have something you think needs to be said, then i would love to hear it.

http://www.pcgamer.com/images/eye_eon_forest.jpg

http://www.pcgamer.com/images/eye_eon_red.jpg

http://www.pcgamer.com/images/eye_eon_green.jpg

http://www.pcgamer.com/images/eye_eon_shrike.jpg

While your checkin that stuff out, dont forget to check out the PCgamer articles about eon :) im very psyched about this stuff, its very cool to get that kind of exposure on something i have worked so hard on (witht he help of others on and off the team)

Article Part1
http://www.pcgamer.com/eyeonline/eyeonline_2004-10-07c.html

Article Part2
http://www.pcgamer.com/eyeonline/eyeonline_2004-10-13a.html

Dont forget that if you think that you know something you dont know.

PS: heres my favorite quote from the article

"at I'm after," says Barry "is a simple" - rock hard smarts - read more to find out more.

Sizzling
10-15-2004, 11:21 PM
Sooo beautiful!

The image with the pumkins was the most stunning. Like Warcraft but more detail and more crisp into it. I have seen images of Elderscrolls 4. I think this looks better. More my kind of style! Just one noticed, there were a lot of treespikes sticking out. Looking good but maybe it looks to much lika a forrest grid? Would like to see it in action.

The characters were also good but not WOOW. Red like running dino,dragon. hmmm. ok then I buy that. The city on the other images were a little plain and boring...

very good work. I wanna run in the forrest...

HyPer
10-16-2004, 10:18 PM
thanks man, yea, those tons of bare branches actualy dont quite compare to the amount you usualy see like that in a cedar forrest like this.

Thanks, im glad you think it looks better than several different commercial games. Those guys have more time, bigger teams, money! and all that good stuff we have to do with out to get this project done, so its very cool to hear that were doing it so well as to even compare.


and also, why does all the awesome art here get posts while my garbage barely gets any?

pimeto
10-16-2004, 10:53 PM
im speachless!!! :bowdown:

Lost_in_spajS
10-16-2004, 11:15 PM
Like said above im Speachless... i really like the Atmosphere and lighting in the pumpkin Shot...
The only thing that bothers mw alittle is that the branches seems very long. Or maybe its not that they are long but they all look the same size.. i dunno hehe might just be the pictures but thats the impression i get.. also one more minor nitpick is the little hole/stump thingy on the tree texture that re-appeares on every tree(talkin bout the pumpkin picture).

Enough nitpicking i think it looks great and i´d love to see a fly through of these scenes with a couple of those dinosaur creatures roaming about :)


Keep it up.

SammyB
10-17-2004, 01:29 AM
I actually downloaded and played the alpha you guys released a few weeks ago. MAN, did the environment have some serious atmosphere going? Hell yes. Well done!

Colin77
10-17-2004, 08:31 AM
Lovely Work, Your site is very nice indeed also.

There's not realy much else i can say having viewed your other posts. Keep it coming, hope it all goes well.

Col

Chug
10-17-2004, 10:29 AM
The universe you guys created looks absolutely wonderful, and coherent. It's not another realistic or Med-fantsay world. Choice of colors and textures are almost perfect, it looks very lively.
Made me want to check it, but the files on your website are corrupted.

MFTituS
10-17-2004, 12:16 PM
wow, good atmosphere and colours in your screenshots.

i just have two points for critic:
-as others the pumpkin screen reminds me of wow too, but something is missing. i think its the always same bright, foggy, lightly green background. you have so nice and rich colours, but dont use the sky to finish the whole scene. the pumpkinscreen is dominated by orange, why is the sky total different - why is there no orange in it too or maybe for a nice contrast violett? i think it would be an improvement if you use more colorful backgrounds which fit better to the overall colorschema like the guys from blizzard do it.

- the other thing is that i dont know where you want to go. by the pumpkinscreen and some others it looks more colourful, painted like in wow, the creatures have a painted, plastic look (cause of the hard edges), the 2 characters in the article are not looking so painted, other screens remind me of metal gear solid 3 shots, than some tree, ground and building texture look more realistic and made from photoreference. so the style is not everywhere consistent.

hope it´s some kind of helpfull....

frink
10-17-2004, 12:22 PM
Looks great Hyper, I'll be having a slice of that.

EVIL
10-17-2004, 01:48 PM
How in the hell did you get such a moody fog in those screens.. the lighting is absolutly amzing. I am goign to make a mod for HL² called maru, a cyberpunk fantasy fighting mod and we are going to put the same quality of detail in our mod. its going to be finished in 2/3 years so we are keeping an eye on the future, and the tech demo of unreal engine 3 are giving us a good estimate of what is possible in 3 years so we are targeting that.

high reso models, textures, normal and pharralax mapping. we are going to put an awsome amount of detail in the mod and your mod really is a big inspiration for our team.

I wish your mod and team the best of luck, and if you have any valuable tips for keeping the team motivated (i notice alot of mods loose an insane amount of team members over the years and wont get finished because they loose interest in it - and I really want to avoid that.) then i would be glad to hear it.

we should chat sometime on irc or so. discussing various of things, (if you still remember, I was the guy who asked how you did the green grass texture :D)

RESPECT MAN.. RESPECT

TimAppleby
10-17-2004, 08:09 PM
Any chance of a ut2k3 port of the project?
I'd like to see the work running, but ut2k4 isnt on my shopping list.



If not then I forgive you, but my geforce 6 doesnt. :(

HyPer
10-18-2004, 04:44 PM
hey.

Lost_in_spajS:
yea, i see what you mean. Might be due to the fact that for some reason we used 90% one tree rather than mixing it up with the 3 tree types we have
i only ment to use that one a few times, will be adding more verity like maple and fir trees etc, that should hopefully help.

SammyB: i liked the way you asked your question? hell yes! thanks man!

Colin77: thanks man, glad you like the site too - we just updated it too if your interested.

Chug: the files are corrupted? :( realy? damn, ill look into that
Im glad you like the visual direction that im taking this world, and im sure you will enjoy the writen aspects of it aswell just as much.

MFTituS: thanks for the crits.
I would have had far less fog if we had built the initial environment bigger, so areas you could be at would never be foggy, just areas out of your reach, and i had to pick a fog color that would act as a good overcast sky aswell, but i do see your point, and i did go for a yellowish fog, and in some maps, expect to see very deeply saturated fog to help tie the environment togeather even more.

hmm, yea, the buildings have some overlays on them, but overall the major details on it are hand painted from the bricks to the chipped plaster. i went for a sort of john foster/mueller sort of rough painted thing, as with the trees too.
I can see how the rifleman doesnt quite fit, hes not quite ideal yet, but with some more work i can see realy making him fit right in.

EVIL:
i did it by getting into the map and knowing what i wanted and i didnt stop untill i got exactly what i wanted visualy, created some cool character zones in the map - areas with personality almost, things like that, you have to know what you want before you can get it :)

yea, you should be able to push the HL2 engine pretty hard - develop like we are, go all out, in a year eon will run even smoother than it does now, so if your mod starts off at 10 FPS, who cares, you have time to boost it, make it worth the development time
nothing is worse than developing current-gen quality stuff for something that wont be done for years or will be played for years after that.
whats pharralax mapping? :O
my tip is to start now on goood concepts, then get those concepts into high rez 3d, then normal-map them.. do higher poly ingame models than people usualy do, use more bones, use more shaders, go insane, make it super cool, because when its playable, it will run just fine.
also, take advantage of the fact that you have all the time in the world to invest in some of your best characters and such, so GO INSANE, if you were being payed to do it you probably wouldent be able to put as much time into the stuff, take advantage of your situation. Unless your fast and able to do something like the shepherd model, rig, anims, texture, 2 renditions of a rifleman/rig/anims and the shrike model in 6 months like i did, then go even more nuts.
Also, keep your team small, 4 or 5 core active team members that are GOOD and a few extra contributors now and then is the best, the more guys you have the less controlled the art style will be, keep your guys assigned to spacific stuff, one guy on human faces, one guy on human stuff, one guy on beast stuff, otherwise the style keeps changing and you lose controll of the art.
its also better for keeping a motivated team, there not 1 of 50, there the core crew that keeps the project alive.

sounds also like you have a nice base of ideas to work on, foundations of existing worlds and styles to draw from - unlike eon, which makes it very slow going often - if it was a ww2 shooter we were working on, i could have recruited 30 mappers and had them go nuts with whatever they want, but you just cant with something like eon. And if your the man with the visual vision, make sure your a jack of all trades, get your hands dirty in the mapping, modeling, texturing, animating, set the standard at every turn, make something for the team to work towards, dont let anybody do anything before you or it will never turn out like you want it, let them follow your example, or your lead artists example.

yea, i could go on for hours about this stuff, so if you want to keep talking about it, we can talk in IRC i guess :)
keep me updated on your project too.
also, avoid people who work on more than one thing at a time, they always bail out.


Tim: yea, posably, just not our primary focus right now
as far as i understand, our code is so ut2004 independant that we could quickly port it over to unreal1 if we wanted. code wise atleast.

thanks again everyone.

b1ll
10-19-2004, 01:56 PM
WOOOOO

Cool stuff dude, The atmosphere and the style is sooo much present, I love this, Should be a quality game. ya. With the new Rifleman its going to be great, HAR HAR HAR HAR

yeah, Other then the same dublicate tree thingy, its cool.

The same style flows over the background and the monsters .

You guys are on the right track yup


Maybe with that new guy on the team, its going to rock even more.. AHAHAH


82!

b1ll

Equinoxx
10-19-2004, 09:55 PM
Barry (can I say Barry ?)

I just had to download those realtime gamepreviews and my god, the visual style is just gorgeous. I fell in loe with the style after the 1st time i saw the shepperd , or was it the shrike . . . and that immediately proves my point, the visual style is so in-sync across the board it just blows me away. I can only imagine what it would look like with normalmaps [at least, there aren't normalmaps on them are there ?]

all in all, my hat of to you sir. wainting in line at fileplanet to download the alpha game preview.

Another thing I was wondering about, is Corona Leonis a 'real' gamecompany, or is it a startup and is Eon going to be your company demo to attract attention and funders ?
[no offence with the 'real' remark, just don't know how to put it otherwise]

cheers,

Yves 'Equinoxx' Adam

morphine
10-19-2004, 10:30 PM
I didn't want to act as a fanboy but it's almost impossible a thing.
I agree with Equinoxx. Those previews are amazing.
I love the way you guys animated that human, specially the way the fingers get still a little open as he wields that glaive-like sword.

Really nice work. Can't wait to see it running!
Congrats to you and to all your team.

dur23
10-20-2004, 12:20 AM
EHSSOME!

Now wheres that frigin shepard. Im gonna molest him. Goat style!

Hourences
10-20-2004, 11:03 AM
you guys outdoor style and technique is great for the engine but i prolly already told you so once :)

keep it up :)

EVIL
10-20-2004, 02:46 PM
Pharralax mapping is a fancy word for displacement mapping, UE³ uses it, so does Source btw

and mucho thnx for your reply, very nice read, it gets the energy and inspiration boiling in my blood.. :D MUST PWN THE MOD SCENE :P http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif


hmm.. just wanted to add your AIM name to my list and it appears I already added you :o .. wierd.. http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/buttrock.gif

StrangeFate
10-21-2004, 03:01 PM
Love the human character, sweet animation to it too.

I'd complain about the lack of art-enhacing(tm) tech use. Some soft shaders on metals (maybe they're there ? hard to tell), lightmaps on meshes (everything looks unlit right now) and randomness like more interesting trees here and there, broken tree parts laying around, trees growing in other angles than straight vertical, 1-2 smaller stone versions that you can rotate/resize and place around.

I dont like those rock textures in eye_eon_green.jpg. All those horizontal lines seem wrong, nothing against the painted look itself.

You can use a second UV map on all prefabs with a small backed lightmap which contains lights/shadows/colors(gray tones = original color of the tiling texture in the other UVmap would be used). Basically you can take a whole castle and bake/paint the shading into a single 512 or 1024 texture, since all the detail comes still from the original textures the lightmap itself doesnt need astronomical resolution.
If the models/building are unique for a scene you can go further with baking and bake drop shadows too, with a lighting direction that fits the ingame lighting.
Like said, the shadows can contain color information too and can be blended in all the usual ways with what's on the other UV (additive/multiply etctec). That way you can obtain soft warm shadows that compliment the overall painted look.
I think the larger structures there could do really well with some large and soft painterish shadows casted from the more apparent shapes (roofs that stand out, rims etc) etc. Wouldn't affect the existing tiling textures/model at all.

I can't see the skymaps but behind the trees it seems to be standard blue/gray. Someone named Warcraft earlier. World of Warcraft has some nice (sadly blurry) skyes, nicely tinted in the predominant color for the area which does a lot for already great mood, it also uses very soft shaders/spec maps on gras/stones/snow etc. It's a very elegant touch and in no way hurts the painted look, and they're not the only ones to do that of course.
Single or wide spread particles floating around can be used to create some movement in the world here and there, like dust particles.

Right now you have some cool stuff there but don't seem to be taking any advantage of what the Unreal engine offers (beyong tree instancing, still screens might give a wrong idea tho). What you have there is looking great but looks just like a lot of content thrown into a map, by no means would i call that done and ship it, there's still retouching, UEd-'posteffects' love and lvl work to do.
Most developers don't really get much out of the engine anyway, which really limits the overall look, that's more due the complexity of the engine rather than time i think, and maybe shortsight too not being able to see how to use features to compliment your work.
I wouldn't necessarily look at what others do with the engine since they usually don't do much anyway.

It's looking really nice so far.

Traker
10-21-2004, 03:35 PM
This looks amazing...what else can i say? :) :bounce:

What FPS do you have in that scene?
The reason i`m asking is that in my encounter with forests and foliages i had to realy make a lot of adjustments on how many alpha planes(leafs.,branches) i would have for my trees

The first time i did trees with alpha plane foliages i never imagined that a 512x512 bitmap with alpha channel mapped on 100 grouped poly`s would "kill" a Gf4Ti4200 when it comes to framerates

I actualy made a tree completely 3d and got a much higher fps then using alpha maps:(

Then i asked the programmer and told me about fillrates , how it handles alpha bitmaps and that there isn`t much to do unless the video card manufacturers concentrate more on getting the fillrate faster instead of making tons of shaders that are used 2-3 years after the videoboard appeared

I am not a sprite oriented fan so i don`t like using planes that face acording to players camera(somehow like speedtree does)

On what system configuration do you run that scene?

the_podman
10-21-2004, 04:48 PM
Well, I'm damn near speechless. This has got to be the most ambitious mod I've ever come across. How big is your team? I hope it's finished before Unreal Tournament 2006!

The game assests posted on your site are absolutely astonising! You have a lot of talent in one project and you are harvesting it well.

Amazing!

-pod
My finished knight model/animation (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=164776)
My WIP knight woman/animation (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=1633694&posted=1#post1633694)

HyPer
10-21-2004, 05:13 PM
b1ll: Thankyou maddamn
MAD!
pssst - 82 - pass it on.
HAR HAR HAR
HATE!
HATEYTWO!...
and yes, the new guy on the team, hes awesome, hes an awesome hatefull frenchman, its great.
do you know who that might be? MAYBE YOU KNOW HIM TOO!


Equinoxx: you can call me b1ll if it makes you happy.
or just bullet.. i like slash tho, call me LAZER, yea!

thanks alot, yea, iv been realy pushing on the visual style end of things, trying to get everything to blend togeather.. trying to have the world around the models complete them.
that in the end, the models look better inside the world than out of it, sofar i hope iv been nailing that...

and no, no normal maps or bump maps or anything advanced like this, but if it looks the same almost or gives the same impression then whats the difference? to the viewers atleast :)

and yes, Corona Leonis Entertainment is a real company, we do game art outsourcing - basicly a group of art and programming freelancers, between jobs we work on eon and often during contracts aswell :)
so thanks equinoxx for checking out the demos, letting me know what you think, and im glad you enjoy it so much :D

morphine: thanks, its cool that you noticed that ;) was something that popped up while me and samurai were testing how the animations should be setup and how the poses should look, so as i held the boken in the riflemans ready position i noticed my fingers were like that and decided to stick that in, it also gives him a nice chance to whip the sword alot more with his fingers.. the martial art is made up by my brother and i based on what we knew of sword play, so its alot of european and japanese mixed with a strong emphasys on leveraging the weight of the sword by rolling it, snapping it, whipping it etc off of the body and around it, chances are i will be re-animating this stuff or parts of it soon aswell to increse the cool factor of the animations for the combat
the ingame anims arent fully linked up, its using maybe 30% of the animations i made for the sword combat, the rest of the anims were basicly the same but from a different starting position to help the animations flow.

dur32: its, like, yknow, in the game! hes busy...
how about the shrike insted?:)
hehe

Awsimmm!


Hourences: thanks man, thats great to hear from you ;)
i dig your maps alot. Thanks again.

StrangeFate: oy oy oy.
thanks, the human anims were done by myself and bonemoney who = awsimmm

http://www.coronaleonis.com/eon/images/demshot5.jpg
i did alot of that shadow bake stuff in the interior of the towers, but never had time to do it on the outside, i plan to ;) thats definately something missing tho at the moment.

there are 3 tree meshes, just never used them all as much as the big one for some reason, will be fixed later ;)
also, we have... 4 or 5 or 6 rocks modeled i think, by malengine, and peppi just never had time to finish the others, so there was to be more variation, just didnt quite happen as i planned ;) going to have more random bushes for sure, salal, huckleberrys, stuff like that to give some more cover and bushyness to the inner forrest.
and yes, your right, the map is far from done, needs more gameplay relevent setups and better spawn points and more optimisation and more invisable walls around the map and maybe a subtle skybox.

thanks for the input and thoughts and crits and stuff, its good to hear from you.
you still with DE? i guess you would be working on DS now eh? or pariah?

i get about 30 fps and the big killer is the grass and the unoptimised materail ids causing tons of state changes we dont need, so were working that out and optimising the grass (more of it, better fps ;)
my PC is a 2.5ghz with a gig of ram and a geforceFX 5950 Ultra 256 meg
i useto have better ram and that helped alot with the fps. but yea, fps should boost alot more after optimisations.
I dont use the Alpha setting in unreal, i use Masked and compress the textures alot, this tends to help bring 60 meg UTX (Texture packages) files down to 5 megs, its texture compression that lets us get away with insane tons of high resolution textures.

thanks again everyone.

also, heres some other pics i dont think got posted in the article.

http://www.coronaleonis.com/eon/images/demshot4.jpg
http://www.coronaleonis.com/eon/images/demshot6.jpg

b1ll
10-21-2004, 05:44 PM
har har, Frenchman, I bet hes great,
AWSOME I SHOULD SAY, FULL OF HATE

har har.

HyPer
10-21-2004, 05:52 PM
those frenchies know how to ART!

HyPer
10-22-2004, 04:01 PM
by the way, i realised i didnt make mention of it sooner, when it comes to the unrealed aspects of the level design here, im only co-creator, Mike did alot of the work.

mikes not even a mapper by nature, hes a drummer :D hehe, former drummer for death cab for cutie, dont know if any of you guys know the band, some of you do i bet tho.

RO
10-22-2004, 05:24 PM
So things already mentioned here but I just gota say your stuff is great. The colors are awesome and well placed. You concept guys have really put a lot of thought on the feel of this mod. I have been thinking of doing and outdoor map with just plants and stuff with river or so I would have to say if I do make map like this I would have to give you credit because I will be looking at this for inspiration.

HyPer
10-22-2004, 05:51 PM
argento was actualy a big inspiration for me desp.

you should work with us on eon man, your damn good, love the cityscape in your sig too, very cool stuff.

why dont you just hook up with us and use our assets to make sweet sweet forests? :)

RO
10-22-2004, 07:17 PM
argento was actualy a big inspiration for me desp.

you should work with us on eon man, your damn good, love the cityscape in your sig too, very cool stuff.

why dont you just hook up with us and use our assets to make sweet sweet forests? :)
I would if I did not have some of my own projects in the background going that only a few people know about. You guys kick ass. I hope you all the luck in the world getting this published if it is not already being talked about.

I still can not believe when you guys asked for level designer you guys did not get a lot of attention. I am still baffled by that because this is the most original mod that really looks like its own game entirely which is something many other mods can not say. Most of the time you can sense where the mods roots are from. Like all those tactical CS clone mods all have at least a few textures or style elements that are from the design style of the unreal creators. Even Red Orcestra the biggest mod for the unreal community at the moment still feels like the same old same game like ‘Medel of honor” This has its own style entirely and that is what is awesome. Also all the art assets I have seen have very nice colors that blend well with each other. Who ever is your art director sure knows his color theory correctly. :)

Thanks for the comment :)

ReWegar
10-23-2004, 09:32 AM
Wohoo, nice work :applause:

thinkingfeller
10-24-2004, 01:08 AM
hyper's correct, a lot of the unrealed stuff was done by me, but he's the one who polished it up and made it look so slick. (it kinda helps to live in a forest, eh hyper? ;) ) he's got the mad color skills too.

thanks for the comments, it's quite inspiring to get praise from a mapper such as desp.

:)

morphine
10-25-2004, 03:02 AM
I'd like to mention one other thing.
I've seen many of the other competitors and yours is, without any doubt, the best of the bunch.
Independently of the contest, I think this one will become one helluva good game.
I'll keep on checking your site for news. :)

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